Issue (singular) with update.

[goonalan]

I can't seem to unlock the text/story tabs- as in I open a tab and it says read only when I hover over the lock- I've tried right clicking, left clicking- holding down ctrl, shift et al- I want to be able to change the text on the fly- basically I was trying to create a Quest by copying the text in from a story tab but I couldn't edit the text?

It's probably something really stupid that I'm failing to do, put me out of my misery, pretty please.

Just to reiterate I can't edit/unlock the text to edit...

Cheers goonalan

[goonalan]

And another, sorry- I opened a module to play, a module that was created in the previous edition of FG (4e game) and all the magic items (and other stuff) have been removed from the treasure parcels, the coins are still there but none of the items- no biggie, just wondered if there's something I'm not doing right.

Also I've discovered I can't seem to unlock and edit anything- not the encounters, or items or... anything, the lock is tight shut and I've bee through a lot of keyboard and mouse combos to get it so it's not read only?

Thanks goonalan

[Trenloe]

Also I've discovered I can't seem to unlock and edit anything- not the encounters, or items or... anything, the lock is tight shut and I've bee through a lot of keyboard and mouse combos to get it so it's not read only?
What colour is the lock? If it is red it sounds like the entry you are trying to edit is in a module. Are the items you are trying to edit in a module and not in the base campaign - i.e. in additional tabs in the campaign lists? It looks like module entries can't be edited now.

[goonalan]

The lock is black- although there may be a red squiggle in the center of it, I do not have very good eyesight and I'm colour blind so I'm not sure.

The entry is in a module- I thought it had to be in a module for me to use it, I thought the base campaign was where you put the PCs? I thought that was how FG worked, sorry I've only been using FG for a couple of weeks or so and everything I have done so far is based on me putting the PCs in the base campaign- making other campaigns- turning these into modules and importing these into the base campaign- has this changed?

What do you mean modules can't be edited- that makes no sense, sorry don't mean to be rude but as I say I've only been at this for a few weeks, I edit treasure parcels, monsters, text et al all the time in game (probably every other encounter)- why would that stop being possible, I don't understand?

Apologies, slightly incredulous.

CHeers goonalan

[Trenloe]

"It looks like module entries can't be edited now" was a comment on how it appears to work now, it wasn't a statement in terms of "this is how it works now, get used it!". Let's hear what someone else comes back with - hopefully Moon_Wizard on how module entries work now in 3.0.

There are a lot of changes under the hood of FG 3.0 - especially with how module data operates and is shared, and a lot of us don't know how this actually works at this point in time. So, good clear feedback on what you're seeing is good (which I see you've done in the main FG 3.0 thread) - no rants please! ;)

[goonalan]

I apologise, although I don't think I did rant, but that's bye-the-bye Fantasy Grounds is just what I have been looking for (for ages), I'm just a little confused by things- which leads me to my next question, which is pretty major- I can't work out how to target things, as in in combat- good guys and bad guys- there are no target circles to drag and drop, I've tried left clicking on things, right clicking on things- dragging the dice et al but I just a get a ? for no target selected.

Are there instructions anywhere?

Sorry again, I've been mooching around the site, in the library etc. but I can't see anything...

Cheers goonalan

[Trenloe]

Yeah, targeting is a major change in FG 3.0 - there are basic instructions here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20047-Targeting-of-tokens&p=163331&viewfull=1#post163331

This really should not have been released to "live" without clear instructions on the changes to targeting - this has many people confused.

[goonalan]

The targeting has gone through a major overhaul with the new update. The targeting is token-to-token now, instead of user-to-token.

Try pressing CTRL+click to target with the active character (for players) or active CT entry (for GM). You can also select tokens by clicking on them (dark circle) and then set targets for that selected token the same way.

Additionally, multiple targets can be selected by using the targeting mode button at the top of the image.

I'm working on updating the documentation to explain the new features.

Regards,
JPG

So I followed these instructions-

Active Player in the CT is PC#1 (for example) CTRL & click on two targets for his attack- little white lines with arrows point at the targets, I press the attack button and it rolls only one attack- not two and I get the question mark again for no target selected.

I've also noticed that none of my bad guys display their name tags- I have 5 tokens, all the same monsters, I can't discover which one is monster #1, or #2 etc. When I click on them in the CT then they used to wink (flash) but now they don't.

Err... I was supposed to be playing FG tomorrow night... err help?

Cheers goonalan

[goonalan]

Just a quick note to say I can click on the targets and get the black circle up but it's really hard to see (as I say I've not got great eyesight) and even when I have the black circle up it doesn't target- I still get a ? alongside the attack roll. It doesn't apply damage or effects either?

[Trenloe]

Did you drag the tokens to the map from the combat tracker?

[goonalan]

No, I dragged them from the encounter and then clicked the arrow button at the bottom of the encounter tab so that they appeared on the combat tracker (as I have done for the last three weeks). I guess you're going to tell me I should drag them from the combat tracker now.

LOL, you gotta love this...

[Trenloe]

I'd suggest trying what I have outlined in the Beta thread you posted this issue in. There may be an issue with the encounter population - so try it manually for now to see if that works.

[Trenloe]

Encounters are working OK for me.

When you "dragged them from the encounter" did you drag the token under the name in the encounter entry (the "placement" line) so that the token changes to a tick/check mark on the placement line? This is the way to do it.

The only way I can recreate your issue is if I drag the token in the encounter window from the left of the name - not from the "placement" entry.

[goonalan]

I did indeed drag them from the placement line but strangely enough I got no tick (which I did in the previous iteration- as you say), I therefore had to make sure I dragged eack token in turn- remembering where I was upto last time.

I've just re-done it, and dragged again from the placement line- I still don't get a tick.

I can however make combat work but only by dragging the tokens in from the CT, I've just tried adding the tokens from the encounter to the CT (via the down arrow on the encounter tab) and then dragging them from the placement line onto the map- still no tick...

[Trenloe]

What ruleset are you using?

Are you using any extensions?

[Moon Wizard]

Also, you can drag the faction icons at the bottom of the combat tracker to add all tokens from a given faction to a map at once.

Is the encounter you are placing in a module too?

For module data, in v3.0, the module data is all read only; but now any module can be shared with users. Previously, host-only module data could be edited, but only player-specific module data could be shared (and was read-only). Since modules are supposed to be pre-built packages of data to be referenced during a game, it seemed like the latter scenario was more useful during actual play.

Specifically, to module data, if you want to edit the records, you can drag the shortcut link for the record to the relevant campaign list (NPCs, encounters, items, parcels) and edit the local copy you just made.

Regards,
JPG

[Trenloe]

Specifically, to module data, if you want to edit the records, you can drag the shortcut link for the record to the relevant campaign list (NPCs, encounters, items, parcels) and edit the local copy you just made.
This works fine for library entries, but what about story, NPC, etc. entries in the campaign lists? You used to be able to make copies of those, but it doesn't look like you can do that now.

[Moon Wizard]

Moving discussion to Test release thread in Lab forum.

JPG

[Trenloe]

I've just re-done it, and dragged again from the placement line- I still don't get a tick.
As M_W mentions, if this encounter is from a module you will not see any ticks - you need to deploy the encounter to the combat tracker and then drag the tokens from the combat tracker to the map if you are using encounters from a module that don't already have token placement.


I can however make combat work but only by dragging the tokens in from the CT, I've just tried adding the tokens from the encounter to the CT (via the down arrow on the encounter tab) and then dragging them from the placement line onto the map- still no tick...
To clarify how encounters work: Encounters are a way of pre-populating a group of NPCs into an RPG encounter - with tokens added and token placement on one specific map. You do all of the allocation of tokens and placement before you put the encounter into the combat tracker using the down arrow. This "Add NPCs to Combat Tracker" process adds each NPC to the combat tracker, if there is more than one of a specific NPC it will have a number added to the end of the name (sequential or random depending on the campaign option set) rolls initiative for them (if this campaign option is set), and then if there was any placement for the tokens they will be added to the map. There is no information passed back to the encounter entry as part of this process - so you will not see placement ticks appear if tokens are added to a map from the combat tracker.

I suggest you try creating an encounter from scratch and see if placement works.

What ruleset are you using?

[goonalan]

I'm using 4e, just to reiterate if I drag the tokens from the encounter tab onto the map- either before or after placing them in the CT then they do not work (this could be because they are in a 'locked' module- having read the post above). The only way I can find of using these tokens is to put them in the CT, then drag them from the CT onto the map.

However I have just created a new encounter and then dropped the tokens in from the encounter tab and they work fine- so it's the locked module; which of course inevitably leads me to another question- should I stop making 'modules', as I see it if i make a module then important it into a core campaign while the assets- NPCs & Items are editable and usable the rest of the info is effectively locked, I can't change it I have to make anew.

If I'm absolutely honest I don't really understand this new aspect of FG, it seems like a backward step, don't get me wrong I still love the system (it's the best thing since sliced bread- as they say this side of the pond), but I don't understand the thinking behind not being to edit the work I've already done- I have copied and pasted the story into the module, in the past in sessions I have modified and edited this info (and encounters, and treasure parcels) and because I can- I do, to make the story fit the players, to add strange new items to parcels that I have just thought of, or else to change the make up- or combine encounters.

Is the new dynamic to make the encounters story et al in the core campaign and work from there- I'm not complaining I'm just a little lost and confused, I've had FG three weeks and in that time spent far too many hours (ask the Mrs.) making modules for my game, it seems a lot of this time may have been wasted if I now want to edit and adjust info as I go.

Is the module a thing of the past or am I not seeing it.

Thanks again for all of your help, I am truly grateful for your kindness and understanding.

Cheers goonalan

[Moon Wizard]

This is a side effect of giving the GM the option to share any module with their players. (i.e. if the GM has the Arcane Power or Martial Power module in 4E, they can now share with their players during the game session.) The GM can share modules so that the player can see data which the GM may or may not have open on their side.

I may be able to revisit some of this in a v3.0.1 release to see if we can open up module data again. My concern during development was that there will be disconnects between GM module data and player module data. Also, the player data will need to be non-editable. I think there were some other synchronization issues.

I will see what it takes to build a version that can allow editing of module data for GMs, but I'll keep it in Test mode so we can shake out any issues.

Regards,
JPG

[goonalan]

Thanks, and just to square the circle I'd like to present to you examples from the two modules I've played using FG so far- just so you can see I'm not a crazed person (well, not much).

In KOTS the guys were fighting a bunch of Kobolds outside a waterfall, one of them got away and joined his comrades within the waterfall to add to the encounter there-
Previous version- easy add Kobold to encounter
Present version- make encounter anew, I can't add to the encounter it's locked.

In the dungeon proper the guys were fighting the Goblin Chief Balgron the Fat, he escaped via a secret door and headed into a new encounter area, the guys followed after and eventually did for another 4-5 Goblins (in the 2nd encounter), but not alas Balgron. The Goblin chief fled into a set of caves- with the PCs following after (in the same combat encounter) three or four rounds later to find Balgron battling through a bunch of rats- who then turned their attention to the PCs as well. At which point three encounters become one, Balgron heads off- the PCs hear screams a little later and make it through the rats, only to turn tale seconds later- out of healing and more or less everything else when they spot an Ochre Jelly- with a melted Balgron inside, now heading their way- three encounters into one.
Previous version- easy add bad guys to initial encounter- voila.
Present version- make encounter anew, and then again, I can't add to the encounter it's locked.

Other times I used this in KOTS (apart from combining encounters) was to add some details that I discovered in one of the players backstories to a item which then got found later on in the adventure, along with a prophecy type text the guys read that I'd inserted into the story element based entirely on the PCs backstory- I didn't know any of this stuff when I made the module, but I do know that I want to make every module/scenario as personal as possible to the PCs- part of their story.

The issue gets even more problematic for me with the second module we played DCC53 Sellswords of Punjar, I copied the module booklet in as per the various tutorials et al for FG, and it's great. The problem is Goodman Games have a habit of making very small encounters (1-2 creatures) and then parking multiple encounters more or less on top of each other. The example would be-

PC's end up on a fight on the roof tops with a bunch of sentries (Enc #1 Level 1 500xp)- one mook falls off the roof (actually after a Cause Fear spell), the PCs laugh a while, then the mook gets up and runs in a door in the alley below that the PCs hadn't spotted thus far- noise from inside the building, the PCs get down from the roof quickly, and bump into (Enc#2 Level 1 250xp) a pair of toughs, who turn out not to be all that tough at all, one flees- although critically wounded and goes for Arthuro the Fence (Enc#3 Level 1 175xp) who's an old guy but still handy with a blade, or at least he thinks he is except now the PCs are dropping Daily powers- the two left alive in the room (Arthuro and the first mook that fled) start shouting for Timmy. Timmy appears (Enc#4 Level 1 175xp), Timmy is an ancient (and massively underpowered) Otyugh- terrible and stinky, Timmy lasts a little longer than a round after taking a critical hit from a Brutal Strike. Arthuro flees, the mook tries to surrender- the PCs are considering terms when Arthuro starts shouting again and a bunch of Dog Brothers (gang members) head into the room- I rule same encounter but allow all PCs to spend one surge and recover an encounter power (why not?). The Dog Brothers arrive (Enc#5 Level 1 500xp), and soon after are joined by their glorious leader Irocar- a mad human warrior (Enc#6 Level 1 175xp), to add to the confusion a little while later Timmy the (dead) Otyugh explodes- and raining down into the chamber come a whole host of Otyugh grubs (Enc#7 Level 1 250xp)- the grubs however attack anyone and everyone, so the bad guys get to suffer as well.

And at the end of it all- three PCs are dead, Arthuro manages to escape (only to return a lot later with more bad guys) and players think FG which handled all attacks superbly and with aplomb- and allowed me to continue to keep building the encounter for the best part of 2-3 hours, almost seamlessly, is applauded to the rafters- combat was an absolute delight.

Old version- no problem.
New version- well, it would be difficult.

As I say DCC53, and Goodman Games modules do this kind of thing all of the time, all of the above encounter groups were in different locations but no more than approx 30-40 feet away from each other- and with no closed doors to prevent this kind of pile up- besides, this kind of thing is incredibly funny when it happens.

As it stands with the present iteration I don't see the point of actually making separate 'modules' because the encounters et al would be effectively locked- I can't add to them, I can only make a new encounter in the 'core' module tab- import the monsters from the 'module' as needed and then drop them into the new encounter, not impossible of course just more work than previous. For my game it would be far easier to just build the entire dungeon in the 'core' module, effectively unlocked, and then edit as and when needed as the game progresses.

Again I'm not telling you all of this because I'm trying to belittle, or else just to hammer home a nail, I'm quite prepared for me to be wrong about this- I want to be wrong, I want to be told that I'm doing it wrong, I should just do this... I also want to tell you these things because I love this software, I've got my head around it now and the capabilities are stunning- I have a queue (at present) of sixteen modules that are waiting to be FG'ed, I love it- even the building of the modules, it's so darn fun and easy.

JUst to reiterate- you sir are a genius, I am a crawling worm. FG is just glorious- if it has to be the second way (no modules for me) then that's the way it will be.

I would though prefer to have the ability to edit as I go...

I hope santa brings you everything you ask for, if you send me an amazon wishlist type thing (or equivalent) I would be happy to don the red cap and itchy beard and play santa myself, although on a limited budget.

Thanks for listening.

Cheers goonalan

[Griogre]

Hi Goonalan. While moon works on editable module data in 3.0.1 I thought I would mention how you can deal with your problems in the short run. Trenloe went over some of this already but I'd thought I'd put it all together for you. An aside though, many of the early 4E modules put encounters too close to each other. H1 in the dungeon and DCC53 were both modules like that.

First regardless of what happens, I would suggest you continue to use adventure modules - they are just too convenient in the long run. You don't want all those old 1st through 10th level encounters in your main campaign when you are running the party at 11th level.

That said, my advice on treasure, magic items and treasure parcels is to keep those in the main campaign with the characters. The odds are just too good players will miss some items and you are going to want to constantly re-set their locations when they do. This also allows you to customise items as well. I personally delete the parcels out of the main campaign every so often so I only have the parcels for the latest level and the next level or two. The other advantage of this approach with magic items is that if you ever need to look up the item again (ie if a player accidently deletes it out of inventory), your items are all in one place. Adventure modules are not a good vehicle to hold magic items IMO because every time you run the module the items should be customized to the party going into the module.

Lets now talk about adjusting encounters in the fly. From your description I not sure you know you can just add whole encounters to other encounters by just pressing the down arrow on the second encounter and that encounter is added to whatever is already in the combat tracker. Conceptually you should view the combat tracker as the window into the encounter as it exists *now*. For that encounter in Punjar I would have done it that way as the party triggered encounter after encounter you just keep adding the new encounters to the tracker as they are triggered. If the monsters have been placed already then you are done. If they are not placed on the map you then have to drag the monster's token off the tracker onto the map. If for some reason the monster doesn't have a token you have to place the token on the monster on the tracker than then drag it on the map.

Adding whole encounters is easy by pressing the "Add NPCs to Combat Tracker" button, next lets talk about how to just add a few more monsters to an encounter. First off, you add the base encounter to the tracker. Lets say you are running the Excavation Site encounter in H1 and you had an extra player show up so you need to add another Goblin Sharpshooter to the 3 Sharpshooters already in the encounter to balance out the extra PC. On the combat tracker at the end of every monster is a link icon. To add another sharpshooter to the encounter just drag and drop this link button onto a different part of the tracker and another goblin sharpshooter will be added to the tracker. You can quickly add additional monsters already in the encounter this way.

In fact, you can add *any* monster from a Monster Module and/or adventure module to the combat tracker this way. So in your example with Balgron the Fat ending up in the "Maze of Caves" encounter you would first add the Maze encounter to the combat tracker. Then you would open the NPC list, find Balgron the Fat and drag and drop him directly onto the tracker. Tada, a custom encounter on the fly.

The best time to add more monsters to an encounter are in between rounds. I've found it helpful to turn on "Turn: Stop at round start" and then the combat tracker will pause between rounds and you can add any NPCs as needed before starting the round.

[goonalan]

Thanks for the massively comprehensive answer- I played about with FG and figured out the optimal time to add monsters was in the between round break- I didn't know you could add monsters from 2nd and 3rd etc. encounters, I'll give that a go. Your suggestions regarding items et al make perfect sense, I've run several of the scenarios I'm playing at the moment many times before, and yet each time slightly differently- with changes in monsters, NPCs and of course items tailored to the players; your suggestion as I've said makes absolute sense.

Thanks again, tremendous suggestions.

Bravo.

Cheers goonalan