Can someone help me figure out how to host?

[JFK]

I've owned FGII (a Full version and one Lite version) for over 5 years. In all that time, I've never been able to host a game, only to play. Despite the effort of a bunch of people, I could never overcome the port forwarding obstacle. I know, I know.... hosting requires this with other games. However, I was able to host NWN years ago, using the same stuff from portforward.com. But somehow with FGII I can't figure things out.

My setup is perhaps stranger than the usual:

I have an antenna on my roof that receives a broadcasted radio signal from a tower. A cable runs into the house from that device, and into a Cisco Valet wireless router. All our computing devices connect to this hotspot wirelessly without incident.

Now, we recently changed ISPs, but the setup is much the same. They came inside and did something to the Valet router though. Previous to that, I was able to access the Admin page for the router, to try to set up port forwarding. Nothing I did worked though. Now, I can't access the admin for the Cisco Valet anymore either. When I try things at canyouseeme.org the only port visible is 21. I know FGII has to be running, with a campaign loaded and waiting, for 1802 to be visible, but it never is.

I can connect to my running campaign with a second instance on the same computer using localhost.
My wife can connect to my running campaign (with her Lite license) over our wireless LAN, using the Internal address that FGII provides.

I asked our ISP about blockd ports:


We do not block any ports.
So there are no changes to be made to your router.
With CCC you do not have a dedicated global IP address. This is consistent with your past service.
Global IP is only required for remote access to your home. Most gaming services do not require a global IP.

Your router is the unit outside. The inside device is a switch / access point. We do not allow access to the router or switch. This is a managed solution.

We can discuss the gaming further. Nothing should be preventing you from gaming.

Nobody is able to connect to our external ip address (not on our LAN).

Any help would be appreciated. I'll stay up all night (no work tomorrow!) to try to get this working. I feel like I have only a part of the program (I've been a DM for many MANY years).

Thanks in advance for help, folks.

John

[dulux-oz]

Don't know how much help this will be, but:

1) If you own the switch/access point then the ISP has NO RIGHT to lock you out - if it were me I'd insist on getting access back or change ISP.

2) Some device in the path to the outside world is doing NAT (Network Address Translation) which is a function that allows one IP Address to look like another (actually, its probably doing NAT Overload, which allows many IP Addresses to seem like one).

3) You have to not only forward the 1802 port through the firewall but also map it properly to the INTERNAL IP Address of your Hosting PC INSIDE your LAN.

4) This means that to work consistently the Hosting PC needs to be set up with a Static IP Address, not DHCP.

5) So, lets assume your Hosting PC is on 192.168.1.100 and you are using a Network Address of 192.168.1.0 /24 (or with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0), then the following Cisco ISO code will allow a Cisco Device to do the translations for you (this is how I've got my LAN and Cisco Router/Access Point set up):

ip nat inside source static tcp 192.168.1.100 1802 interface Dialer0 1802
Where Dialer0 is the name of the OUTSIDE interface.

Note that this line is in addition to other NAT and Firewall Commands.

Hope that helps

[Moon Wizard]

FG will attempt to set up port forwarding automatically using UPnP, but that setting must be enabled on your router. In general, access to your router admin screen is required to set up port forwarding. (unless UPnP supported and already enabled)

I've been reading up on alternate solutions for gaming lobbies and NAT punch through options, but every single one requires an external server which creates a dependency outside of the current peer-to-peer model. Still something I am researching, but no timeline.

Regards,
JPG

[JFK]

Here's a new email from our ISP:

The public Ip you have is a shared IP.
We can allocate a static global Ip for an extra monthly fee.

Than we can provide port forwarding to your game server.

Leave your game server (business) dhcp we will care for statically assigning through dhcp.

This is a business level account.

We do not support game servers under our residential server.

Bruce will call to discuss billing adjustments.



I don't think he gets it?

[Trenloe]

I don't think he gets it?
Looks like technically they get what needs to be done in terms of port forwarding (except the need for a static global IP address). But, sounds like they don't understand exactly what Fantasy Grounds is and what it will be used for. I'm guessing they are thinking that it will be some big game server for multi user online gaming - things like MMOs, Battlefield, etc. which would require considerable bandwidth and low latency. Probably if you explain more about Fantasy Grounds you may get through to them - how many people will be using it, roughly how often, that this is not for a business but purely for your own personal recreation, etc.. Then try and get them, again, to either let you have access to the relevant piece of equipment that does port forwarding or set this up for you on port 1802 to a specific internal IP address - which you would then have to set to be static so that it didn't change on your FG GM PC.

[JFK]

Thanks, Trenloe. I'll keep talking with them about this. Hope I can get this to work. Otherwise, I'll try Hamachi again. Now that I'm working on this again, I realize I in fact DID manage to host once, using Hamachi. However, it was very slow (not sure that was Hamachi though or another factor).

So, I want to state for the record that I in fact was able to host. The problem is not FGII, it is how hard it is for me (and others) to get from Point A to Point B, with all the variables involved.

Thanks again.

John

[Griogre]

Hamachi does add some overhead to network transactions, but it is more likely your wireless connection speeds. Without knowing your specific details, wire connections are usually 10 to 10,000 times faster than wireless ones though there are some new wireless technologies that have better connection speeds.

[damned]

i would definitely be looking at hamachi based on your current setup.
if its slow also look at the size of your images and how many modules you are sharing.
what upload speeds do you get on www.speedtest.net?

[JFK]

It varies, but usually around 3 mbps down/ 1 mbps up.

Just got another email from ISP:


I understand your request.
You are requesting is an Ip address some one on the internet can use a port to access a computer on your LAN.

Are the users all on CCC network in Some Town?

If so I can allocate special routes to you but if they are not on CCC network you will need a public IP dyndns does not work.

We can set up port forward.

Call with questions.

Does that sound right?

[Trenloe]

Does that sound right?
I think they're thinking that you want to provide your friends with a specific Internet hostname that would resolve via dyndns to be the IP address of your Internet connection. For normal server apps this would be a very nice thing to have and your ISP is making a good recommendation. However, you don't need this for Fantasy Grounds because you can either give your friends your current Internet IP address (which can change so is a pain to keep giving your players a different IP each time you play) or you can use the Fantasy Grounds alias functionality which is what I'd say 99% of FG GMS will use, which works are follows:

You start your GM instance of Fantasy Grounds. This will be the "server". FG connects to the Smiteworks server on the Internet and tells it your FG alias and your current Internet IP address.
When a player joins your game they specify the FG alias you give them (4 short words) and they connect to the Smiteworks server on the Internet which gives them your current Internet IP address and they then try to connect to you on that Internet IP address on port 1802.

This avoids the need for DynDNS as it is kind-of doing the same process via the dedicated Smiteworks server just for Fantasy Grounds.

All you want your ISP to do is forward any communications on port 1802 on your current Internet IP address to your designated internal IP address which will be the PC that Fantasy Grounds is running on. You do not need any form of DNS as the Fantasy Grounds client/server application essentially does this via it's built in "alias" functionality.

[JFK]

Mind if I cut/paste your words here, to help me explain this to them?

[JohnD]

I'd be a little worried your ISP' s techies don't seem to understand this.

[Trenloe]

Mind if I cut/paste your words here, to help me explain this to them?
Sure - I'd assumed you probably would! :)

[dulux-oz]

->JohnD
My experience with most ISP "techies" are that they are nothing more than "script kiddies" who know how to read a piece of paper with instructions on it (& then sometimes I wonder) - but to be fair, very, very, very few of their customers NEED anything more than a "script kiddie" on the other end of the phone.

That's why I make damn sure that my ISP knows my credentials and that I meet with their SENIOR technical guy FIRST, before I sign up with them - and get his direct number for when I have to call to explain to them where their problem lies. (Arrogant? Yes, but when you've got a Masters Degree in InfoTech(DataComms) and senior CISCO and MS Certifications, plus over 25 years as an IT Consultant, you tend to get a bit arrogant with "lesser mortals" :p )

[Trenloe]

Another possible option other than Hamachi is using a VPN Service Provider - some info here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20160-Using-a-VPN-Service-Provider-to-get-around-port-forwarding-issues