New project: Ruleset wizard [Archive] - Fantasy Grounds Message Boards

Trenloe

September 13th, 2013, 04:22

A ruleset wizard that does not depend on the users knowledge of lua or xml.
I think this looks very promising... But - I would say that it will help with doing away with a lot of the XML coding in FG around GUI design and placement of windows and controls. But, I honestly don't see how anything like this is going to do away with the need to know LUA and understand the implications of what you're doing in LUA. Have a look at the video from 3:15 - you still have to code in LUA!

I may be wrong, psicodelix may come up with an amazing way of doing FG LUA code generation within this "Ruleset Wizard". What I'm seeing here is a typical IDE (integrated development environment) where the GUI can be built quickly and easily, but the underlying code (in FGs case LUA) still have to be coded - there's no magic code generation... Nothing wrong with that at all - it's a tried and tested method of application development throughout the software industry.

psicodelix - please don't think I'm being negative about what you're doing here, it looks very promising and will certainly be a huge asset to the FG community. What I'm trying to do is manage people's expectations of what is possible with something like this... Perhaps you have some amazing ideas on how to do LUA coding in the wizard?

Even without LUA coding - being able to create the FG XML for GUI components with this wizard will be a major benefit to people creating new rulesets - building a character sheet on top of the CoreRPG framework in 3.0 will be so much quicker and easier allowing people to make great strides towards having a basic "FG core features with custom character sheet" that would allow people to setup FG to play most RPGs (without automation) quickly and with lots of the base FG functionality.

I'll look forward to see how this develops. :-)

psicodelix

September 13th, 2013, 09:28

Thanks for the feedback.

Trenloe is right, the wizard can't overcome the need of lua script. The purpose of the project is to benefit from the layering capabilities of the core ruleset in version 3 to allow anyone create a customized charsheet, even a combat tracker or another custom windows, eliminating the nasty xml GUI design.

To add automation, you'll need LUA code anyway, but the integrated code editor can help you keeping the code bound to the items, showing the default events of each control with its default parameters, and it could include some common tasks or code snippets.

AstaSyneri

September 13th, 2013, 11:55

To give you a word of encouragement: I am very interested for this. I already want to customize the GUI for two settings of mine, so this would really come in handy.

Oberoten

September 13th, 2013, 13:52

Bravo! :) If this one comes through you will be an offical FG Hero. :)

I think that this might be one of the more beneficial projects possible for the good of FG itself. Making it easier to create a custom ruleset or look can only be a good thing for everyone.

- Obe

Dakadin

September 14th, 2013, 03:45

This looks amazing! Lining up the XML in a text editor so that it looks good is one of the most time consuming this for me. It often involves making a change and then reloading the ruleset to make sure it looks the way I want. This would be a huge help! Keep up the good work!!!

RosenMcStern

September 15th, 2013, 17:32

Trenloe is right, the wizard can't overcome the need of lua script.

This is exactly what I was trying to explain to one guy in the BRP section of the forum who was asking for a video tutorial "to avoid reading the documentation" (RTFM in programmer lingo). You no programmer, you no make ruleset.

BUT...

The purpose of the project is to benefit from the layering capabilities of the core ruleset in version 3 to allow anyone create a customized charsheet, even a combat tracker or another custom windows, eliminating the nasty xml GUI design.

To add automation, you'll need LUA code anyway, but the integrated code editor can help you keeping the code bound to the items, showing the default events of each control with its default parameters, and it could include some common tasks or code snippets.

Boy, this would save a LOT of work, and allow many more people to make customizations! You are a benefactor for this community, indeed! Please finish this thingy, and consider kickstarting the tool (with Smiteworks' permission) if it turns out too heavy to finish in spare time.

psicodelix

September 16th, 2013, 16:16

As you can guess the project still requires several hundreds of development hours to be functional, but I would not let it die forgotten. Currently I'm looking for the best way to carry it out before D&D Next be outdated... ;-)Thank you all for the interest.

Blacky

September 19th, 2013, 09:17

Looks very promising. Great work!!

Just one question: when you populate your toolbox, do you fetch real iteam (graphics) from the current ruleset? Or is there a way to edit those default?

Just to avoid working with default graphics (with their own margins, padding, offset, etc.) when none of these graphics are use in the ruleset being created.

And, down the line, you might want to look at some tools to copy/paste groups of things, and to distribute and align items within a window.

psicodelix

September 19th, 2013, 13:02

The controls are designer-specific items created to clone the aspect and behaviour of the original Core Ruleset controls. They have inner properties that set its initial size, frame, etc, so these are easily modifiable. The objective of including original art is to help those who have no design skills to make its own sheets as easily as possible.

As you say, next step is to create a full set of design mechanisms: copy/paste, group, arrange, send to front/back/top/bottom, anchor edges, etc...

Valarian

September 19th, 2013, 13:29

The objective of including original art is to help those who have no design skills to make its own sheets as easily as possible.

And will be appreciated. I can handle XML and Lua but I have the artistic ability of a blind baboon. I can appreciate aesthetics, but not create stuff myself that looks any good. By being able to lay out windows graphically, it should mean that the rulesets are far quicker to do. Then in to the code to put in the bells and whistles.

Zeus

October 20th, 2013, 12:30

Wow. Cudos psicodelix. This looks to be a promising tool for budding FGII developers. Unlike my prototypes this looks to be a full blown IDE for FG ruleset development. Looks very reminiscent of Microsofts Visual IDE interface and layout. Again great job on the intuitive layout.

Looking forward to seeing and using this :0

psicodelix

October 20th, 2013, 14:53

Thank you for your interest.

Actually I'm talking with Smiteworks and looking for ways to carry out the project. If everything goes well in a short time I could present a kickstarter to begin the project development.

VenomousFiligree

October 20th, 2013, 15:08

Sigurd

October 21st, 2013, 02:52

Good luck psicodelix. It looks very impressive but I have to ask how clean is the resultant code?

Sigurd

damned

October 21st, 2013, 03:05

An IDE never builds code that is as tight as a skilled programmer... just cant be done...
I too will support a kickstarter even though I would probably never use the tool.

Nydhog

November 10th, 2013, 18:08

Holy ****! Dude, like someone else said if you put a donations page up I will definitely donate. I have been really wanting to put Deadlands Classic and D6 Star Wars into FG2 for a good long time. This seems like the way to go.

Bidmaron

November 18th, 2013, 04:41

Another future pledger here

terrell

November 25th, 2013, 01:36

Ditto!

GunnarGreybeard

November 25th, 2013, 05:42

Would really like to see something like this come to fruition, even though I'd probably never have time to use it.

oracular

December 8th, 2013, 18:48

Any update on this?

ddavison

December 9th, 2013, 01:15

Not to hijack the thread, but Psicodelix has been sending us updates and design goals and we've been in discussions about how to fund this either directly from SmiteWorks or how we would support it via a KickStarter. For those that don't know, Psicodelix also wrote the Mutants & Mastermind ruleset for us which has some very clever design features in it. It's worth checking out if you are into superhero or sci-fi settings.

krb243

December 11th, 2013, 14:59

awesome! either way, I'll financially support this project :cool:

psicodelix

January 24th, 2014, 20:16

Hi all,

I'm proud to announce that I have reached an agreement with Smiteworks to develop and release the Ruleset Wizard as an official licensed Fantasy Grounds product. The development will be funded by a kickstarter that will be announced as soon as some legal issues are resolved. We are just finishing the details of the project, wich will be presented along with the kickstarter.

more news soon...

oracular

January 24th, 2014, 20:36

Very cool. Congratulations!

VenomousFiligree

January 24th, 2014, 20:56

Great news! :)

damned

January 24th, 2014, 20:59

way to go psicodelix!

dr_venture

January 24th, 2014, 22:11

Great news for everyone involved... congrats! I'll jump on board to whatever degree I am able.

primarch

January 25th, 2014, 02:44

Hi!

My wallet is ready to unconditionally surrender to such a project! ;)

Primarch

Blacky

January 25th, 2014, 03:55

Great news for everyone!

One thing though: I beg you and SmiteWorks not to follow some pretty bad practices we see everyday on Kickstarter (or any crowdfunding). Basically, don't increase the price of a product without equally increasing it's value; don't artificially create rarity or limitations just for the purpose of increasing the price. It will backfire.

leetsepeak

January 25th, 2014, 07:24

I'll pay whatever you want. I just need this product. I want to run Eclipse Phase in FGII so bad, but it's beyond my limited abilities to create. I cobbled together a Demon: The Descent framework for the existing nWoD ruleset, but I'd love to update that to use the new framework as well. This is too exciting.

martel

January 25th, 2014, 09:04

haaaaaa :-)

it is time to build more facilities with your tool.... i have voted for https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=62512 gui build... :-) nice.
i wait your project for deciding if yes or non i buy FG ^^

damned

January 27th, 2014, 11:20

so 5years and you still havent decided to buy?
just curious...

martel

January 27th, 2014, 11:41

yes, i have my reasons

BaseDeltaZero

January 28th, 2014, 19:09

Thank you, I want this so much... I recently foolishly decided to try my hand at creating a ruleset, and... well, couldn't make heads or tails of it... I'm not completely incompetent with a computer, but I just couldn't figure out what any of the things actually *did*. Something like this will be a godsend. Hopefully there'll be documentaiton...

Any idea on an ETA? I don't need details, just... a few months, winter-fallish, next year, later?

psicodelix

January 29th, 2014, 05:57

It's early to tell, but I hope it be released at summer.

BaseDeltaZero

January 30th, 2014, 00:43

Thanks for the response!

martel

February 1st, 2014, 07:52

not early ??? summer arf ...

nooooo.....

Blacky

February 1st, 2014, 15:19

For something of this magnitude, that's quite fast. Remember that it's unlikely he'll be working on it full time. And that we will expect much of his work, as to what it can do.

Bidmaron

February 15th, 2014, 15:38

psicodelix, do you mean kickstart in summer or 1.0 in summer?

Blacky

February 15th, 2014, 16:04

psicodelix, do you mean kickstart in summer or 1.0 in summer?

:

It's early to tell, but I hope it be released at summer.

You don't release a Kickstarter, but something (service, product) :)

Bidmaron

February 15th, 2014, 21:10

Usually you hear when the kick starter is when you announce a release goal. Any estimate on kick starter?

psicodelix

February 16th, 2014, 11:32

I hope 1.0 to be released in summer.

Concerning kickstarter, I'm still defining the rewards, and I want to sync it with the end of another project. Also there are some legal issues, but I hope it be launched in mid-march.

Bidmaron

February 16th, 2014, 13:59

Well, here's wishing you the best. What you are trying to fix is my least favorite aspect of modifying FG2/3 (following quite closely by the insane library module format).

psicodelix

February 19th, 2014, 08:48

then you'll be pleased to know that the project will include a friendly form-like library module editor ;)

damned

February 19th, 2014, 12:01

you are such a tease!

pauljmendoza

February 22nd, 2014, 21:58

This is wonderful :)

Blacky

March 9th, 2014, 08:11

Any news?

psicodelix

March 9th, 2014, 10:18

Yes, at this moment we are working on defining the levels of crowfunding and its rewards. It's very important for us that the project have strong incentives for different levels of funding and people to be satisfied with their investment.

As an example of rewards, you could get early access to alpha and beta versions during development, premium support and discounts on Fantasy grounds licenses and upgrades.

And for your interest, I've made another preview video showing an important feature of the Wizard prototype, the frameset editor:

https://youtu.be/9eepVZ8BC9o

Regards.

damned

March 9th, 2014, 10:33

Nice work Psicodelix!

Blacky

March 9th, 2014, 11:27

Yes, at this moment we are working on defining the levels of crowfunding and its rewards. It's very important for us that the project have strong incentives for different levels of funding and people to be satisfied with their investment.
You're right, it's very important. More and more crowdfunded project fail because of this.

As an example of rewards, you could get early access to alpha and beta versions during development
I would extremely strongly advise against that. This is fast becoming business as usual on Kickstarter, with dramatic side effect and long term effect.

To put it simply, it's a very, very, very bad idea. Very. Because:

You would create artificial rarity to increase the cost of the product, without increasing its value.
Because you would limit feedback and debugging to a few people, whereas time and ideas and discipline have nothing to do with available money.
That will motivate leakers and pirates, which maybe isn't bad per se but will mean that people will judge the product (and Fantasy Grounds by extension) based on partial and early builds.
You're going to generate debate and flame wars on the subject, which will divert attention (and money spending) from the product and the goals themselves.

Wasteland 2 did that very aggressively. It's gotten to a point where community moderators and editor official are strongly advocating ignoring people feedback (good feedbacks, ideas, and bugs) because they didn't pay the Kickstarter premium to do so. Even Kafka would be proud.

premium support and discounts on Fantasy grounds licenses and upgrades.
Premium support is a very good idea on the other hand. I would advise to be extremely clear about what it is and isn't, you're going to get people who buy premium support and will ask you truckloads of questions about making a ruleset without knowing anything.

In any cases, thanks for the update!

And the video! There's a lot to say about it, but little point I guess since it's pre-alpha or something.

Eklab

March 9th, 2014, 12:22

I'm excited!

damned

March 9th, 2014, 12:31

You're right, it's very important. More and more crowdfunded project fail because of this.

I would extremely strongly advise against that. This is fast becoming business as usual on Kickstarter, with dramatic side effect and long term effect.

To put it simply, it's a very, very, very bad idea. Very. Because:

You would create artificial rarity to increase the cost of the product, without increasing its value.
Because you would limit feedback and debugging to a few people, whereas time and ideas and discipline have nothing to do with available money.
That will motivate leakers and pirates, which maybe isn't bad per se but will mean that people will judge the product (and Fantasy Grounds by extension) based on partial and early builds.
You're going to generate debate and flame wars on the subject, which will divert attention (and money spending) from the product and the goals themselves.

It depends how you market and how people perceive your project. If you are "selling" something you are not increasing its value by giving out beta access. If you are commissioning or patronizing a project you may already be paying more than the products "value" because it is something you value, you desire, you think is a good idea - whatever your reasons - as opposed to just "buying" something.

I may never ever build a rule-set but I will contribute to this kickstarter because I want to contribute to the growth of Fantasy Grounds and its community and I think this is a great step forward.

Wasteland 2 did that very aggressively. It's gotten to a point where community moderators and editor official are strongly advocating ignoring people feedback (good feedbacks, ideas, and bugs) because they didn't pay the Kickstarter premium to do so. Even Kafka would be proud.

Totally different market and product and likely number of backers...
Thats a project that raised $US3million. This is a project that is likely to raise between $1,000 and $10,000 (numbers pulled out of my arse) and most of the contributors will understand what it is they are funding and how hard a project this will be to deliver and how much time it could save someone.
There are plenty of projects that people on these forums have backed that have delivery dates of a year etc or are only partially delivered but you dont hear too much bleating about it - probably because of the nature of this group of people is a little different.

Its good to look at the shortcomings of other projects and learn from them - it doesnt mean that the same things will occur because you share some common elements.

Premium support is a very good idea on the other hand. I would advise to be extremely clear about what it is and isn't, you're going to get people who buy premium support and will ask you truckloads of questions about making a ruleset without knowing anything.

Yeah... this could open you up to a huge amount of (poorly rewarded) effort :)

Bidmaron

March 9th, 2014, 13:49

I would have written something along the lines of what you did, damned. If you look at the RealmWorks kickstarter, you will get an idea of how this one will go. Sure, there are people grousing about the fact that they don't have beta access, but it is pretty benign. I follow those boards casually, and I've never seen anyone urging LoneWolf not to regard input from non Alpha-Wolves. This is not the video game market (or at least it's not the immature, kill-my-granny for a power-up crowd). I think we have a very genteel support crowd here compared to Wasteland (just the name kind of tells you what to expect).

What I'd see as an award level encourager here is the 'get a feature' award may be useful.

If this product lets you build library modules graphically, I'll be even more ready to sign up (which I'm ready to do now).

Mellock

March 9th, 2014, 14:57

Blacky

March 9th, 2014, 15:27

Sure, there are people grousing about the fact that they don't have beta access, but it is pretty benign.
I can promise you, selling beta testing won't be benign here.

As for the rest, if we are to go into detail, yes early access and alpha/beta testing isn't the same thing. I have a huge problem with the later, not that much with the former (I still think it's mostly a bad idea, but not an epic one). But it would be very difficult to make the distinction practical.

However, the principle is the same for a $100 crowdfunding and for a $5M crowdfunding. Increasing cost without increasing value is bad across the board. Plain and simple.

And yes, it's always selling something. Always. Even when the final product is free, a crowdfunding sell exclusive products or services along the line, or at the bare minimum it sell an ego boost or something along those lines. I'm not saying that negatively, nothing wrong with that.

But crowdfunding, despite its name, isn't funding. I mean everywhere else, if I put my money at risk by giving it in advance to someone else, I get royalties, or partnership, or partial ownership, or something. Crowdfunding is selling, despite all the spin and the hype. Again, nothing wrong with that. But clarity, transparency, and being fair is paramount in those area.

Remembering that those campaigns are worldwide. Even if the non English-world prospects here are low (because of the FG track record in this area), there is an international component. Could be probably higher here than in the FG community, because it would help people having trouble with English and can't get the information they need to write their own ruleset. Why am I talking about that? Because view of money, transaction practices, and funding habits differs widely from culture to culture. Clarity, transparency, fairness, are the only thing guaranteeing to avoid whiplash from this very diverse crowd.

Zeus

March 9th, 2014, 18:48

I'm not a ruleset builder, but like Damned, I will support this just to help out. I don't know how many here try to budget in "gaming bux", but I set some aside per month. So just for me... let me know what month you'll likely be running it in when you figure it out, and I'll see you on... Kickstarter?

The nice things about this tool is that it will also help support the development of ruleset extensions, ruleset skins or themes and modules as well as covering general ruleset development - so something for every GM. I for one am simply stoked to be getting a real time preview of window classes as they are being constructed, biggest bane with FG development I find is the constant delay from switching between Notepad++/Textmate and re-starting FG rulesets just to ensure controls/frames render correctly.

I probably won't use the tool in its entirety to drive out new rulesets as I am fairly comfortable with the FG API and I tend to stick to the main D&D games which are covered mostly by Smiteworks with some input from community devs like me, however I do plan to support the Kickstarter project as any tool that can help speed up development work is welcome and a good thing for the FG community.

I look forward to seeing the plethora of new rulesets this tool will hopefully drive.

pauljmendoza

March 9th, 2014, 19:36

I am very much looking forward to this project. It will solve a great deal of issues for me as far as adapting houserules, and making home-brew rulesets.

Valarian

March 10th, 2014, 13:17

And yes, it's always selling something. Always. Even when the final product is free, a crowdfunding sell exclusive products or services along the line, or at the bare minimum it sell an ego boost or something along those lines. I'm not saying that negatively, nothing wrong with that.

But crowdfunding, despite its name, isn't funding. I mean everywhere else, if I put my money at risk by giving it in advance to someone else, I get royalties, or partnership, or partial ownership, or something. Crowdfunding is selling, despite all the spin and the hype. Again, nothing wrong with that. But clarity, transparency, and being fair is paramount in those area.
I keep hearing this going around in debate when it comes to Kickstarter. I can't see it myself as the Sale of Goods Act and Consumer Protection laws wouldn't apply to a Kickstarter project (they operate under UK and New York law).

Personally, I come down on the investment side. Projects are proposed with expected risks and rewards. Rather than the backer investment being given for a stake of the company, the return is in kind (initial goods and stretch goals). Kickstarter is crowd sourcing investment for a project. The language, and legalities, of investment fits the model far closer than "it's a store". Kickstarter projects can't be expected to fit consumer protection law or any sale of goods law - they often don't have an end product to sell. However, they can be expected to fit investment laws around use of funds (regarding misappropriation of funds and fiscal duty to an investor). As long as a project proposer properly accounts for expenditure on the project, it should be able to fail cleanly under Kickstarter's rules. If a project fails, the proposer can expect to be asked "where did the money go" by his backers, and should be prepared to give a full accounting.

The patronage argument is incorrect too. If it were patronage, there would be no responsibility to deliver. This is plainly against the Kickstarter policies for project proposals.

In essence, you are investing in the success of the project, accepting the listed risks and rewards. In return, you get the stretch goal / rewards / perks (whatever the terminology for Kickstarter, IndieGoGo and the others). It is funding, not selling. Due diligence applies with researching the past projects of a proposer.

damned

March 10th, 2014, 14:00

go read the guidelines - they start with this:

Everything on Kickstarter must be a project.
A project is something with a clear end, like making an album, a film, or a new game. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced as a result.

and in terms of use this:

Project Creators agree to make a good faith attempt to fulfill each reward by its Estimated Delivery Date.

and this:

Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.
Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
Project Creators may cancel or refund a Backer’s pledge at any time and for any reason, and if they do so, are not required to fulfill the reward.

Kickstarter dont and wont arbitrate between parties and do not require you to show where the money goes.
There is no mechanism within KS to give money back. You have to go to court and KS will cross many different legal jurisdictions.
Then you should also make sure (especially if you have to manufacture something) that the entity/vehicle you use to run the KS thru is isolated from your own personal finances.

The number of KS projects that have resulted in someone going to court can be counted on one hand.

IMO you are most definitely NOT an investor. An investor has the potential to gain reward over and above what he puts in. There is no chance for this. You are more consumer than investor but your rights are diluted heavily by not purchasing thru a traditional consumer channel. The more money you put into a KS the less reward you usually get. I still think that you are more patron than either consumer or investor but it is clear that we all have different views and opinions on this one :)

Valarian

March 10th, 2014, 14:55

go read the guidelines - they start with this:
I have read the guidelines. The Kickstarter founders have said that their website is not a store:
https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store

The guidelines around a project having to result is something are correct. That something is the expected return on the investment. However, the Kickstarter can be run to fund an entire project, from design/concept stage (as in the case with several films) or just to fund editing, publication, production of DVDs, etc. At the time of starting the project, there is not necessarily anything to "sell".

Kickstarter dont and wont arbitrate between parties and do not require you to show where the money goes.
No, they're a broker. The contract is between you (as a backer) and the project owner.

There is no mechanism within KS to give money back. You have to go to court and KS will cross many different legal jurisdictions.
The project guidelines state that any disputes are under New York or UK law in terms of resolving the dispute. Project owners presumably have to sign up to that. A local jurisdiction to the project owner would also probably take a "small claims" dispute on.

Then you should also make sure (especially if you have to manufacture something) that the entity/vehicle you use to run the KS thru is isolated from your own personal finances.
The number of KS projects that have resulted in someone going to court can be counted on one hand.
Only as people don't tend to claim. They're entitled to - especially through small claims systems. The proposer of a project should definitely isolate themselves from the project funds. Otherwise, they're personally liable for any losses. As seen by the Hanfree case.

IMO you are most definitely NOT an investor. An investor has the potential to gain reward over and above what he puts in. There is no chance for this.
Stretch Goals. For example: You invest $50, if the project just about funds you get a book. If the project does well, you get a book and several follow-on books in PDF format.

damned

March 10th, 2014, 22:11

the terms of use are the only place where a legal jurisdiction is mentioned - and this only shows the New York state and not UK or anywhere else. However the Terms of Use are between you and kickstarter - not backers and funders. I start a project here in AUS in AUS dollars and you in the UK fund the project and dont get what you expected? Fat chance of any court in NY accepting the case or enforcing any action. AUS law provides some protection to consumers for transactions in AUS dollars but fat chance of you in the UK getting any leverage there.

Stretch goals are in most cases already outlined or listed so you know what you will get. If I invest in your company buy buying a stake in the business I might gain nothing or I might gain a stake in a trillion dollar business - that is investing.

When backing physical products (say Minis) the stretch goals are often allowing the creator to design more elements but you still have to pay more to receive them.

Many projects have funding tiers like these which can only really described as being for "patrons":

Pledge $2,500 or more
0 backers Limited (2 left of 2)
Creator God ============================== Same as previous reward, but you also get to design the concept for the story campaign on of our characters along with our team! Choose either the Knight or the Ranger and you will be the one to write their story with us!
Estimated delivery: Nov 2014
Add $10 USD to ship outside the US

The HanFree case is the only one that I could find that had any legal action taken by a backer.

Bidmaron

March 11th, 2014, 01:02

OK, some of us are actually reading this but are too lazy to see what the HanFree case is. Fascinating, but give us the context!

damned

March 11th, 2014, 01:21

One american lawyer (with apparently too much time on his hands) was so incensed with his first time foray into Kickstarter and his loss of $70 or 80 and the poor communication that he sued the project owner and bankrupted him.
No one else joined in his law suit.
The guys that started the project had an idea and a design but hadnt worked thru all the manufacturing issues etc and spent all the money and then some and when this lawyer demanded his money back he was unable to do so - he was broke. The lawyer didnt care I think he said something along the lines of "this is why i became a lawyer"...

primarch

April 8th, 2014, 02:12

Hi!

Any news on when this kickstarter is happening?

Primarch

psicodelix

April 10th, 2014, 06:55

not yet, but very soon, most likely next week

Trenloe

April 10th, 2014, 16:48

not yet, but very soon, most likely next week
Might be a good idea to have the Kickstarter active during FG Con. This is usually the time of the year when there are more people who aren't active on the forums interested in FG and so you'll have increased visibility for potential backers...

primarch

April 10th, 2014, 19:39

not yet, but very soon, most likely next week

Hi!

My money is right where my mouth is! ;)

Which is to say I am all in on this project and it is the single most important kickstarter to me... EVER! :)

Primarch

gmkieran

April 18th, 2014, 14:28

So, was there an announcement or are we still waiting?

primarch

April 19th, 2014, 22:38

So, was there an announcement or are we still waiting?

Hi!

I second this question. :)

Primarch

psicodelix

April 21st, 2014, 06:02

The launching has been delayed due to eastern holidays and some last requirements of the crowfunding platform, but we hope they give it green light in a few days.

Hitcher

April 21st, 2014, 06:34

I am looking forward to it.

primarch

April 21st, 2014, 17:19

Hi!

My hands are itchy to get a hold of this.

My money very anxious to get spent on this! :)

Primarch

pauljmendoza

April 21st, 2014, 17:42

The wait from Kickstarter can be a pain :) Glad to hear its coming!!

primarch

April 29th, 2014, 04:08

Hi!

Are we there yet? :)

Primarch

damned

April 29th, 2014, 04:41

@primarch - I will hold onto your money for you if its causing you problems?
honestly i dont mind at all :)

primarch

May 1st, 2014, 02:31

@primarch - I will hold onto your money for you if its causing you problems?
honestly i dont mind at all :)

Hi!

If it will get me this product quicker I would not mind. ;)

Primarch

psicodelix

May 7th, 2014, 16:48

All right, finally the wait is over. In a few hours will start the crowdfunding for Ruleset Wizard. Whatever happens thanks for your encouragement during this time.

Stay tuned.

Dakadin

May 7th, 2014, 16:57

That's great news. I am looking forward to it.

pauljmendoza

May 7th, 2014, 17:41

Nice :)

primarch

May 7th, 2014, 19:08

Hi!

Hooray!

I will mobilize all within reach of my keyboard of this momentous event!! :D

Primarch

psicodelix

May 7th, 2014, 23:15

Here is the link to the crowdfunding page:

https://www.verkami.com/projects/7992-ruleset-wizard-for-fantasy-grounds

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

viresanimi

May 7th, 2014, 23:56

Backed!

I hope this becomes a reality!

Vires Animi

Trenloe

May 8th, 2014, 00:41

Here is the link to the crowfunding page:

https://www.verkami.com/projects/7992-ruleset-wizard-for-fantasy-grounds

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
I really hope this gets funded. My concern is that there aren't the 200+ people willing to back this so that it reaches the somewhat ambitious (IMHO) funding level of 14,000 Euros. Time will tell - keeping fingers crossed!

Best of luck - it's great that you've put this together! :)

damned

May 8th, 2014, 02:34

How bizarre - I cant find how to create a new login on the website...

@psicodelix - obviously you have already worked through all your options but Kickstarter would give you a much broader audience.

As soon as I work out how to login (without facebooking it) I will back it. I do hope you hit the target :)

Another suggestion - even if you dont want to talk over the video - a brief welcome message - your smiling face and a 30second intro to the project does help - and maybe some music... :)

Trenloe

May 8th, 2014, 02:36

How bizarre - I cant find how to create a new login on the website...
I think you have to back a project first and during the admin portion of that you can create an account with an email login.

damned

May 8th, 2014, 03:02

i thought i had clicked that link too - but no - that is what I hadnt done yet... thanks.
im in...

psicodelix

May 8th, 2014, 06:47

I really hope this gets funded. My concern is that there aren't the 200+ people willing to back this so that it reaches the somewhat ambitious (IMHO) funding level of 14,000 Euros. Time will tell - keeping fingers crossed!

Thank you for your comments, I agree that the amount may seem higher than expected, and i want to be honest and make this trasparent for all of you who, like me, want to make this project a reality. There are some costs related to the crowfunding process, and you are entitled to know where your money goes.

- There is a percentage that goes to the crowfunding platform.
- Another percentage goes to the payment platforms (paypal, etc).
- Smite Works receives a portion of the funds, by royalties, technical support and marketing (I think you'll be happy to know that with this project you are supporting Fantasy Grounds as well, I do ;))
- Finally from the result we must pay the appropriate rate of VAT.

So the final result is around 8.000€ to pay the project's 500 estimated development hours, a very competitive price as you can see doing a web search:

https://www.comentum.com/web-development-cost-rate-comparison.html

I have a deep respect for the FG community and I am very worried that people might think I'm trying to cheat them. Believe me, this is something I really want to do for the FG community (and myself), and I won't get rich with it, but I have to pay my bills or my next crowfunding will be used to pay my divorce... ;)

psicodelix

May 8th, 2014, 06:53

gmkieran

May 8th, 2014, 15:41

Put in what I can. Hoping it goes all the way!

Cheers!
GMK

Arion

May 8th, 2014, 16:23

Kickstarter was my first option, unfortunately they, and most crowfunding platforms, only accept projects from US and Canada.

Bit late now, but not at all. I ran two very successful campaigns on Kickstarter (and one on Indiegogo) and i am in the UK.

Backed by the way.

Blacky

May 8th, 2014, 17:38

First impression, at $35 it's almost the price of the full Fantasy Grounds. Hmmm. However I agree that 500 experienced professional hours for 8K is quite alright; for 14K well not that much.

Second impression, you sell early access. For that, I may very well not participate. Why should we pay the the “privilege” to help early, and avoid costly support later on? I realize you need funds, but that's one of the worst way of doing this.

Third, circumstances notwithstanding, 14K seems high. But we'll see.

Next, you get less than 58% of the funds? Seems quite low. Although, seems strange that SmiteWorks get money on a product many feels should be included in FG, and is supposed to lower FG entry bar, making its learning curve less steep, meaning in the end probably more sales for FG. Weird. I would have expected almost the opposite.

No announcement thread on this, nothing on the FG main webpage… probably not good.

As for the product itself, I have many questions since this is still the old alpha video. I very well may have missed things described here or there in those questions, apologies in advance. I'll have an aspirin ready for you :)

Will the RWfFG handle deconstructed image for frames, where each component (left, right, middle, decal, etc.) is in the image with no relation to the component (i.e. the right slice is on the left, the decal is on top, the middle slice is on the bottom right of the image, etc.) Seemed like a “of course”, but now I wonder…
Will it handle commonly hard to place controls, like the Close button or the Resize window one?
Will it handle any and every frame and window? For example things more rarely touched or complex like the Lightning tool.
How will it handle comments, as for reading but also writing?
Will it handle the conversion from the shorthand (offset) to the regular notation of the <framedef>, and the other way around?
Will there be graphical tools to distribute and align (akin to Inkscape, or Photoshop/Illustrator) controls relative to each others and to their parents?
Will it handle powerful zooms, and how will it handle the graphical (by mouse) pixel-precise placement of frame components and controls?
Will it handle extensions, and complex ruleset layering, for example as it most basic case to create “skins”? Will I be able to work on the extension Y of ruleset C (layered from B layered from A layered from CoreRPG), with extension X loaded?
How will it handle fonts? WIll native TTF fonts used?
How will it handle files? There's a LUA editor, but is it possible to easily control in what file what code goes?
Will there be color coding of the code? Loop collapsing? External editor (to do advanced coding, like having an integrated LUA library)?
Will there be contextual help for newbies, or people using the RWfFG as an entry point into FG coding? For example on the video at 4:00 there's the LUA editor with on the top right “insert event”, do I need to know what's an event beforehand or will the RWfFG tell me what it is?
Since a list of supported control classes is on the website, what control classes aren't supported?
Will it be Unicode compatible with a simple switch (for when–not if–SmiteWorks rewrite FG for unicode), or will it need a rewrite?
I didn't see any pledge of support of RWfFG, or future versions of Fantasy Grounds. Could you clarify this on the crowdfunding page?
Maybe it's me, but I didn't see any strong features apart from the graphical creation and modification of frames. What about the rest of the Ruleset creation?

That's it for the first batch of questions.

primarch

May 9th, 2014, 00:18

Hi!

100 euros going your way Psicodelix! :)

PLEDGED!

Primarch

Bidmaron

May 9th, 2014, 00:54

I'm in all the way.

damned

May 9th, 2014, 06:39

I couldnt find out how to increase my pledge - me and this website are not seeing eye to eye - so i pledged a second time instead...
I also added a banner link on the https://www.fg-con.com/events webpage - maybe it might send some traffic your way :)

psicodelix

May 9th, 2014, 07:57

First impression, at $35 it's almost the price of the full Fantasy Grounds. Hmmm. However I agree that 500 experienced professional hours for 8K is quite alright; for 14K well not that much.

Second impression, you sell early access. For that, I may very well not participate. Why should we pay the the “privilege” to help early, and avoid costly support later on? I realize you need funds, but that's one of the worst way of doing this.

In a software development project you cannot spend all the available time without checking the software with the customer at various stages, or you could find yourserlf giving a product that doesn't meets customer requirements. I'm giving bakers the opportunity to participate checking it at early stages so they can influence the final product through their feedback.

Third, circumstances notwithstanding, 14K seems high. But we'll see.

Yes, it is high, but I prefer not reach the goal to release a product of lower quality than bakers expected. If you pay 5€ for something that does not meet your expectations you feel ripped off, if you pay 50€ for something that's worth it you feel happy.

As for the product itself, I have many questions since this is still the old alpha video. I very well may have missed things described here or there in those questions, apologies in advance. I'll have an aspirin ready for you :)

Will the RWfFG handle deconstructed image for frames, where each component (left, right, middle, decal, etc.) is in the image with no relation to the component (i.e. the right slice is on the left, the decal is on top, the middle slice is on the bottom right of the image, etc.) Seemed like a “of course”, but now I wonder…
- decal definition will be supported, but I prefer an easier way to define frames, like in my second video.

Will it handle commonly hard to place controls, like the Close button or the Resize window one?
- sure

Will it handle any and every frame and window? For example things more rarely touched or complex like the Lightning tool
- yes

How will it handle comments, as for reading but also writing
- you can make comments in your lua code. In window defintions it won't be necessary.

Will it handle the conversion from the shorthand (offset) to the regular notation of the <framedef>, and the other way around?
- It's not necessary in the IDE integrated frame designer.

Will there be graphical tools to distribute and align (akin to Inkscape, or Photoshop/Illustrator) controls relative to each others and to their parents.
- Sure

Will it handle powerful zooms, and how will it handle the graphical (by mouse) pixel-precise placement of frame components and controls?
- The pixel precise placement will be handled through keyboard arrows + control keys, and by x,y, width and height properties.

Will it handle extensions, and complex ruleset layering, for example as it most basic case to create “skins”? Will I be able to work on the extension Y of ruleset C (layered from B layered from A layered from CoreRPG), with extension X loaded?
- Rulesets, skins and extensions generated will layer over CORE, but experienced users could tweak it after to layer another way.

How will it handle fonts? WIll native TTF fonts used?
- You could use your own fonts.

How will it handle files? There's a LUA editor, but is it possible to easily control in what file what code goes?
- Files will be generated following a logical preset structure.

Will there be color coding of the code? Loop collapsing? External editor (to do advanced coding, like having an integrated LUA library)?
- It will include color highlighting and loop collapsing.

Will there be contextual help for newbies, or people using the RWfFG as an entry point into FG coding? For example on the video at 4:00 there's the LUA editor with on the top right “insert event”, do I need to know what's an event beforehand or will the RWfFG tell me what it is?
- Users will need some basic knowledge of programming.

Since a list of supported control classes is on the website, what control classes aren't supported?
- There are rulesets with many high-specialized control classes. These will not be supported, but I plan to keep adding new controls.

Will it be Unicode compatible with a simple switch (for when–not if–SmiteWorks rewrite FG for unicode), or will it need a rewrite?
- I have'nt thought about it yet.

I didn't see any pledge of support of RWfFG, or future versions of Fantasy Grounds. Could you clarify this on the crowdfunding page?
- Ok

Maybe it's me, but I didn't see any strong features apart from the graphical creation and modification of frames. What about the rest of the Ruleset creation?
- Other features are less important. What other strong features would you expect?

psicodelix

May 9th, 2014, 07:58

Mellock

May 10th, 2014, 10:24

seycyrus

May 10th, 2014, 13:18

Psi, for what it matters... the first sentence

"Fantasy Grounds is a leader virtual table top (VTT) application for roleplaying fans from all around the world"

is missing some words or something. It doesn't read well, even though I understand what is meant.

psicodelix

May 10th, 2014, 16:35

Pledged! I think the thread for this project flies a little under the radar, btw. Would it help to advertise it a little more on the forums?

Good luck, I *so* hope this makes it! It has me already imagining crowdfunding "art packs", to use with your own fantasy/modern/sci-fi rulesets! -- A collection of buttons, backgrounds, scroll sheets,...

Yes, thank you for your advice, but don't worry, Smite Works people will eventually advertise it to FG users, but they must be very busy right now with the Steam launch, and we still have a lot of time. ;)

ddavison

May 11th, 2014, 03:40

Sure thing.

I posted right away to FB, G+ and to Steam shortly after we launched there. I'll try to do a new forum post here or if you want, go ahead and then I can sticky it. That way you can update the top post with your progress if you want. I'm holding off until sometime next week for the newsletter just because I figured the server would be busy enough with the new traffic from Steam and I didn't want to overwhelm it any more than necessary. I have a suspicion that the newsletter makes Hotmail and a few other mail servers think we are spammers and then people quit getting their license key emails and forum subscriptions. I just removed us from the black-list and it's a royal pain.

Anyway, it looks like you are off to a good start. I contributed the full amount myself. :)

-Doug

Willot

May 11th, 2014, 06:58

All right, finally the wait is over. In a few hours will start the crowfunding for Ruleset Wizard. Whatever happens thanks for your encouragement during this time.

Stay tuned.
Crows have money?

damned

May 15th, 2014, 14:12

reminder - we have 292 people or thereabouts that voted for a Ruleset Builder in the wishlist - so wherever you are all hiding come out and show some love for the new crowd funding project: https://www.verkami.com/projects/7992-ruleset-wizard-for-fantasy-grounds
If every one of the voters was able to tip in $50 we would have the project funded :)

Zeus

May 15th, 2014, 21:03

I have contributed at Gold level. I wish this project all the success it deserves and hope the community rallies to get it to its stretch goals. I have also tweeted and posted a link to my website to help spread the word.

damned

May 15th, 2014, 22:57

Onya Zeus - we love your work too!

Mellock

May 16th, 2014, 21:27

Also copied your signature, Damned. Hope you don't mind me hotlinking to the fg-con website image for a few weeks.

damned

May 16th, 2014, 23:27

Please do so... the wider the word spreads the better.

Zeus

May 18th, 2014, 11:40

viresanimi

May 18th, 2014, 15:11

You know... It strikes me, that this product should appeal to every user of FG. Not just those that want to provide more content for it, but also consumers of it. Because making it easier for content / rulesets to be made in the first place means that the likelyhood that what the consumers want, has a higher chance to be made at all!

Just my two titanium coated monetary pieces worth of thougth....

Vires Animi

damned

May 18th, 2014, 15:57

Well we seem to have crossed the €2000 mark.
Come on people - with all the requests for easier FG ruleset development we should be seeing a tidal wave of backing - get your wallets out before I start firing lightning bolts ...

You know... It strikes me, that this product should appeal to every user of FG. Not just those that want to provide more content for it, but also consumers of it. Because making it easier for content / rulesets to be made in the first place means that the likelyhood that what the consumers want, has a higher chance to be made at all!

I totally agree with the above sentiments!
(im not involved with this crowd funding project either.... just getting behind it)
I may never build a ruleset (though with this tool I daresay I will give it a try!) but Ive gotten behind the project because its good for Fantasy Grounds and good for the community :)

Arion

May 20th, 2014, 19:50

I saw that there were more than a 1000 new FG users through steam, and i think that the number would be much, much higher if this gets funded. I could see 100+ rulesets available next year for games both large and small which in turn would attract lots of new players!

damned

May 20th, 2014, 22:49

Yeah - how good would it be to see games like Maelstrom up here too!

Blahness98

May 21st, 2014, 01:28

I backed this, but unfortunately, I was not able to back as much as I wish I could. I truly hope this gets funded as it would increase the number of rule sets available and add a great amount of diversity. And it would allow me to make a better working copy of my Cyberpunk 2020 set. If I manage to get more funds shaken loose, my pledge will be upped.

Bidmaron

May 21st, 2014, 04:01

damned

May 21st, 2014, 04:14

Let's not forget that this tool will solve the difficulty of making library modules as well. Currently, this is an exercise in xml madness. So anyone who wants to make library modules would greatly benefit from this, regardless of whether you every wanted to make a ruleset.

Well... I think that is/was a stretch goal so I dont know that we will see the library builder just yet... we gotta work out how to get the ruleset builder funded first...

psicodelix

May 21st, 2014, 10:28

Well... I think that is/was a stretch goal so I dont know that we will see the library builder just yet... we gotta work out how to get the ruleset builder funded first...

The library editor was sent to the stretch goals in order to minimize the main goal amount for the project. Anyway, if the crowdfunding succeeds the library editor will be eventually included in the wizard, soon or later.

psicodelix

May 25th, 2014, 17:31

I've just uploaded a new video for those of you who are still hesitating to support this project. Let me tell you some reasons to do it ;)

https://www.verkami.com/projects/7992-ruleset-wizard-for-fantasy-grounds

Thanks to Damned for his invaluable help in the making of this video.

Oberoten

May 25th, 2014, 22:57

Chipped in with what cash I can spare this month. :)

GunnarGreybeard

May 26th, 2014, 13:50

Signing up so I can put together a pledge but I've been getting intermittent but frequent 500 Internal Server Errors. Took me an hour just to get an account created. Somebody might want to alert the powers that be over there. All attempts to make a pledge are erroring out. Hopefully its just me and not discouraging other contributors.

psicodelix

May 26th, 2014, 19:50

Thank you and sorry for the inconvenience, I'll discuss this matter with the webmasters.

damned

May 26th, 2014, 23:49

Video is much better! Guys - if this project interests you - spread the word and lets see if we can get this over the line :)
Thanks Gunnar!

jboyd4650

May 31st, 2014, 13:42

i posted my pledge. Hope we can get a few more.

damned

May 31st, 2014, 13:52

Go jboyd4650! Man - thats a mouthful!

primarch

June 17th, 2014, 01:20

Hi!

It's a damn shame this did not fund. :(

Primarch

dr_venture

June 17th, 2014, 01:36

Agreed. Don't know what's to become of this project, but FG desperately needs this functionality.

seycyrus

June 17th, 2014, 02:41

Keep my pledge (mkornecki) and do good things with it!

damned

June 17th, 2014, 14:58

Im very sad too... I was really hoping that this would grab some real momentum.
@seycyrus - its an all or nothing project. to do it right was going to take a lot of effort. to try and do it for the amount pledged means that people probably would not be happy with the end result... hopefully psicodelix can rework the project and run a new campaign.

Valarian

June 17th, 2014, 15:07

I really think that Virkami was not the right vehicle for the project, and that it would have done better with official support and a launch on Kickstarter.
Maybe we can see this as a relaunch?

gmkieran

June 17th, 2014, 15:11

I'd back a re-launch again. I've been trying to build a ruleset for 4 years now (off and on) and haven't gotten past the overlay.

GunnarGreybeard

June 17th, 2014, 15:42

I would back a relaunch but on kickstarter if at all possible. Not sure if other's encountered it or if it had any impact but I had all kinds of trouble just getting signed up on Virkami.

RTFallen

June 17th, 2014, 19:50

I would put what money I could towards it if relaunched on kickstarter.

Resire

Fenloh

June 17th, 2014, 20:22

Hi, Yes, a relaunch would be great.

A couple of People did not Support it, because they said, that they can have it for the same Price when it is finished. Also they said, that the higher Prices did not have something to interest them, as it only granted early Access to the program.
I did not care and supported as much as was possible.

Fenloh

damned

June 17th, 2014, 23:31

I really think that Virkami was not the right vehicle for the project, and that it would have done better with official support and a launch on Kickstarter.

Agreed that Verkami is new/unfamiliar to most of us and doesnt have anywhere near the profile/traffic of Kickstarter but Kickstarter projects can only be started by residents of about 6 countries and psicoldelix doesnt live in one of those...

A couple of People did not Support it, because they said, that they can have it for the same Price when it is finished. Also they said, that the higher Prices did not have something to interest them, as it only granted early Access to the program.
I did not care and supported as much as was possible.

Thats right - the price is the same or close to the same as the finished product pricing. By not backing it the project might not see the light of day though. The higher packages at this stage are really there for people to contribute something extra to help the project succeed. There is no real consumer value in the higher packages - just some extra support for the project.

There was a good core of supporters for the project but it did need a lot more supporters to be viable. Approx 300 people voted for the idea on the wishlist but only about 60 people actually backed it. It may mean that the product is not as in demand from the community as expected or that the price/value proposition wasnt attractive enough or that it didnt get enough support/exposure. Hopefully psicodelix can re-evaluate the project and have a second dig... :) I definitely hope so.

Blahness98

June 17th, 2014, 23:42

If this relaunches, I will support it again. I really want this to see the light of day.

Valarian

June 18th, 2014, 07:03

Agreed that Verkami is new/unfamiliar to most of us and doesnt have anywhere near the profile/traffic of Kickstarter but Kickstarter projects can only be started by residents of about 6 countries and psicoldelix doesnt live in one of those.Which is why I said official support. If Smiteworks registered the project and took on Psicodelix as a contractor to do the work, Kickstarter could be used. This says that the project is of interest to the developer, rather than a side project that may or may not get continued support, Smiteworks need to lend their brand and support to this project.

I had to consider whether I wanted to put my details on to yet another site and whether to trust this unknown crowdsourcing site. Also, running a Kickstarter project is hard work. The successful ones have had an almost constant presence on twitter, Facebook and Google+. There were a few posts here and there, a lot from you rather than Psicodelix and none from the official Smiteworks channels. The Kickstarter has to be considered a project in itself. Planned marketing and stages.

psicodelix

June 18th, 2014, 07:03

Hello,

First of all, I want to thank all those bakers who pledged and believed in this project.

It's indeed a shame that the project has not gone ahead, but at least we have gauged the community interest on it. As Damned pointed, the effective interest does not match to that shown in the wishlist, so a full featured development environment is probably beyond our reach, and a new crowdfunding platform will not make a big enough difference.

Probably our best option is to minimize the requirements, try to release a little freeware core and keep improving it over the time. It's a very challenging project to do in spare time, but I'll try to carry it out anyway.

psicodelix

June 18th, 2014, 07:23

Which is why I said official support. If Smiteworks registered the project and took on Psicodelix as a contractor to do the work, Kickstarter could be used. This says that the project is of interest to the developer, rather than a side project that may or may not get continued support, Smiteworks need to lend their brand and support to this project.

I had to consider whether I wanted to put my details on to yet another site and whether to trust this unknown crowdsourcing site. Also, running a Kickstarter project is hard work. The successful ones have had an almost constant presence on twitter, Facebook and Google+. There were a few posts here and there, a lot from you rather than Psicodelix and none from the official Smiteworks channels. The Kickstarter has to be considered a project in itself. Planned marketing and stages.

You're right, a kickstarter is a project, and I didn't realize this soon enough. However this was not intended to be a massive crowdfunding, but a friendly one, targeted to those who at some point expressed interest in a tool like this.

Arion

June 18th, 2014, 22:52

Which is why I said official support. If Smiteworks registered the project and took on Psicodelix as a contractor to do the work, Kickstarter could be used. This says that the project is of interest to the developer, rather than a side project that may or may not get continued support, Smiteworks need to lend their brand and support to this project.

I had to consider whether I wanted to put my details on to yet another site and whether to trust this unknown crowdsourcing site. Also, running a Kickstarter project is hard work. The successful ones have had an almost constant presence on twitter, Facebook and Google+. There were a few posts here and there, a lot from you rather than Psicodelix and none from the official Smiteworks channels. The Kickstarter has to be considered a project in itself. Planned marketing and stages.

This. I have run 3 very successful Kickstarters and they are very hard work.

If Smiteworks were to do the kickstarter and market it, it would i think raise more money, and if there were any way to reduce the target say to 8-10K, i think it would achieve it no problem. You could then add on stretch goals to add on extra bits.

If it would help, i could create a set of tokens based on my paper miniatures as an extra incentive for backers?

Arion

June 18th, 2014, 22:54

As Damned pointed, the effective interest does not match to that shown in the wishlist, so a full featured development environment is probably beyond our reach, and a new crowdfunding platform will not make a big enough difference.

I can't agree. My first KS ran on Indiegogo (KS had not started in the UK then) and it did OK. My next two were on KS and did much, much better.

damned

June 18th, 2014, 23:20

This. I have run 3 very successful Kickstarters and they are very hard work.

If Smiteworks were to do the kickstarter and market it, it would i think raise more money, and if there were any way to reduce the target say to 8-10K, i think it would achieve it no problem. You could then add on stretch goals to add on extra bits.

If it would help, i could create a set of tokens based on my paper miniatures as an extra incentive for backers?

We could probably put together a few other bonuses/items from interested supporters to help encourage support...

I can't agree. My first KS ran on Indiegogo (KS had not started in the UK then) and it did OK. My next two were on KS and did much, much better.

I think that psicodelix feels this product is primarily only of value to current Fantasy Grounds users and they will find out about it here before they find it on any other crowdfunding app whereas your kickstarters were aimed at the wider gaming audience. Largely most of the backers would come from here but there would be the potential to also pickup game publishers and people who just like to support good/interesting projects... additionally the vast majority of FG users are infrequent users of the boards or never use them. Often you see someone post here for the first time after an update etc and they have been using the product for many years so Kick Starter would help there too.

ddavison

June 18th, 2014, 23:21

Kickstarter will likely be substantially better. As others have stated, however, it takes a great deal of effort to plan and run a successful kickstarter. The timing for this wasn't a great fit for us since we were preparing for a launch on Steam and finishing up some big changes on the last version of FG. That said, we didn't want to limit or delay Psicodelix and require him to wait until we were ready. CoreFG is pretty stable at this point, so in theory it should be doable now.

We are working on preparing some prototypes for a new version of FG on Unity and this will likely be our first Kickstarter. I am also hopeful that we can add these sorts of ruleset building features directly into the platform somehow -- or at least in Unity so we have a single platform to support going forward. Kickstarter is not just a means to raise money but also an advertising vehicle for the core product. We have to remember that what people see on KS will be the first thing they may have ever seen about Fantasy Grounds. For that reason, we believe it will work best to release a fully featured version of FG on Kickstarter and then look to enhance it with additional ruleset building tools or functionality. If it does well, those might be things which are unlocked as part of another ruleset. Psicodelix does good work. If there is a way for us to work with him and his business partner in the future on this -- we will.

dr_venture

June 18th, 2014, 23:29

I can't agree. My first KS ran on Indiegogo (KS had not started in the UK then) and it did OK. My next two were on KS and did much, much better.

I would also add that even with a willing, friendly customer base, it often takes a *lot* of reminders to folks to take action. Well-meaning people are often busy and put things off and simply forget. We're used to getting a lot or reminders to participate in commercial activities, and as much as we often hate being bothered again and again, many folks have come to expect it. Thus, a lot of communication needs to go out about the project.

Many years ago, I had a print magazine that my wife and I put out to a waiting audience. The potential customer base was many, many hundreds of thousands strong, and we universally heard from those people that they couldn't wait to subscribe. However, once the magazine was published, it took months and months and months before we saw any sizable number of subscriptions come in... even though we kept hearing how people couldn't wait to support us. It simply took that long for people to see an ad for the magazine and think they'd be interested... then see another ad and think, "Oh yeah, that looks interesting."... then see another ad and think, "Shoot, I gotta remember to subscribe this time."... then see another ad or two before they actually took action, got out their checkbook and subscribed.

Even friendly customers need *a lot* of reminders, and need to hear things like, "Hurry, there's only 24 hours left to support this project!"... etc. It's a surprising amount of work (well, I was surprised at least).

ddavison

June 18th, 2014, 23:34

That's probably something I don't do well in general right now. Bigger companies have staff or entire departments dedicated to this sort of thing. The people who object to this sort of marketing are often very vocal -- but that doesn't mean you should necessarily shy away from it simply because a small minority of people may object. It's a fine line, I'm sure.

Valarian

June 19th, 2014, 06:44

Direct marketing can always be difficult. I hate spam and cold calls as much as anyone. But you can use the various media wisely. An email as you launch the project, followed by one two weeks before the project ends, followed by one in the last week doesn't amount to spamming current users. On social media, however, people expect things to be on the wall regularly. They will view the current day and very little else. Have different things to say about the product or project, and you can post fairly regularly- ramping up as the project comes toward a close. Monte Cook's "Kicking It" could be worth a read, and Fred Hicks of Evil Hat has posted a number of blog posts on his Deadly Fredly about their Kickstarter projects.

Zeus

June 21st, 2014, 22:51

What you might want to consider (and what has worked well for me and the companies I have worked for in the past) is to canvass the local universities for under graduates and graduates and post a position(s) for internship 'Community Managers' to manage Smiteworks online profile on social networking platforms like Facebook and Twitter. The roles being unpaid but offering practical marketing and customer relations management experience. Win-Win for everyone. Smiteworks gets some dedicated marketing and social platform love, Doug and John get to continue focusing on running the day-to-day business and development and the community/customers benefit from up to date news and community focused communication/marketing.

I'd also pump up the presence on leading gaming sites like ENWorld and Kotaku.

ddavison

June 22nd, 2014, 01:30

Good advice.

leozelig

August 23rd, 2014, 12:10

Any update on a ruleset wizard?

psicodelix

August 24th, 2014, 10:05

I'm afraid that the project is stuck.

Morbid-Don

August 5th, 2015, 17:30

Ahh so LUA programming is still needed - a WYSIWYG Editor with "rules-wizard" capabilities is needed - sounds complex / impossible = ohh well

seycyrus

August 5th, 2015, 23:02

Perhaps, it is time for another try at a kickstarter? I'd be good for $100.

Morbid-Don

August 6th, 2015, 00:54

I will match that - 100 no sweat

primarch

August 6th, 2015, 00:59

Hi!

I think I pledged more than 100 in that last crowdfunding and it went nowhere.

If I recall its the number one wanted feature on that list somewhere. Why it hasn't happened is beyond me. :(

Primarch

damned

August 6th, 2015, 02:32

Ahh so LUA programming is still needed - a WYSIWYG Editor with "rules-wizard" capabilities is needed - sounds complex / impossible = ohh well

If it were easy it would have been done...
This Wizard would help you build all the visual elements of your character sheet and desktop etc and *might* include the ability to add rollable fields but it was not going to include any wizard functionality to build the interaction between the dice results and other elements - eg you could do an attack roll but it couldnt give you a success/fail result - you would still have to code this part in - or the GM adjudicates this step just like they would around a table.
Id back it again at this level of functionality - and if it did more - or included samples etc for the next level - even better.

The project required 300 backers at 100euro each.

dulux-oz

August 6th, 2015, 03:33

Just to add something to the pot for everyone to consider:

I'm working on a "simple" house-rule change in the 4E Ruleset to allow a PC to use the either the Target's or the Initiator's Healing Surge for a Heal (it's for a Feat that allows this functionality). Visually, it only required the addition of one of those Self/Target Buttons - something that a wizard such as this would excel at.

BUT

The code (lua) path I had to work through to get it done was phenomenal (see this thread here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?25425-Appling-Source-Data-To-Target%28s%29-Please-Help&p=225119#post225119) for my discussions with some of the other Devs) and has required (so far) 30+ hours of work and some 50-odd lines of new and changed code over at least 6 files - something definitely that could not be done (as far as I believe) by an automated system.

Its a shame, because a Wizard such as this would be a great benefit to the Community - but I think there's no way we're going to be able to get around the fact that to do a Ruleset we're going to have to learn how to code - oh well.

Cheers

damned

August 6th, 2015, 03:48

dulux-oz

August 6th, 2015, 03:54

I dont know that its "not possible" to do that with a wizard - just that the wizard would cost a helluva lot more to build! everything is possible. its just not a realistic target.... :)

Perhaps I should have said "not economically viable" :)

psicodelix

August 31st, 2015, 07:59

dulux-oz

August 31st, 2015, 08:32

Hi,

well, rulesets are the best bet FG has against it's competitors, and what makes it the best VTT for most of us, but ruleset creation complexity is the biggest problem FG is facing right now.

And now, with the new FG unity version in a (more or less) near future, I think it's time Smite Works review the FG ruleset framework. It may be worth not to keep backwards compatiblity with existing rulesets if that leads to an easier and fastest ruleset development.

I'm not sure if I agree or disagree - there are serious consequences with both approaches (retaining vs not retaining backwards compatibility).

One of the fundamental problems (as I see it) is that to create a ruleset requires a level of programming knowledge that most people don't have - this is going to be true under Unity as it is now. I've been going through the Unity Tutorials in an effort to get myself up to speed so that (if required) I can port my own Extensions and Rulesets over to it - and as it stands at the moment Unity (FG or not FG) still requires real coding experience. Yes, the manipulation of 2D and 3D graphics is a hell of a lot easier in Unity, as is getting Triggers, etc, to work, but you still need to know how to code. And the graphics components are not where FG's strengths lie anyway.

The issues with a Ruleset Wizard is: 1) such a wizard has to deal with all of the different RPG mechanics that are out there for all of the different RPGs that exist, and 2) then its got to deal with all the "house rules" that people will want to use - that's a hugh, hugh task (as I know you are aware).

Lets take one of my existing Extensions as an example - because I try to keep it Core-&-Child I've got to test it against Core, 3E, 4E, 5E, CnC, CoC, d20M, Savage, PF, 13th Age (limited distribution), Fate, Num (I think that's the lot) - plus Dragon Warriors, Übergame, and Blood Bowl (my own private Rulesets). That's a hell of a lot of work because even the difference between 3E, 4E and 5E, or 3E and d20M are significant AND subtle. To get a wizard to do this is... hard.

And I can't see it being that much easier under Unity - with or without backwards compatibility.

And if the decision is to remove backwards compatibility then what do we do with all of the existing Extensions, Modules and Campaigns - that's a lot of man-hours invested that will be just "thrown away" (yes, I know, you shouldn't count "sunk costs", but still... )

One of the nice things about the existing Cascading Ruleset model is that we are saved a lot of time in Ruleset development - but that's not the issue (as such). The issue is that real skill is required, no matter if we use the existing framework or a new framework (such as Unity) - yes, it might make things faster, but we still need real coders doing real code - I can't see that need disappearing anytime soon.

Actually, I think one of the best things that could/can be done to "improve" things in this regard is updating the documentation on all of the existing and new templates/functions/etc - that won't eliminate the need for real coders but will make it quicker to "get up to speed" - provided the individual has a foundation-level coding skillset in the first place.

A tricky one, to be sure :)

Now, having said all that - please don't take my comments as a personal "slap-down" - they're not meant that way, and they're actually not aimed at you, psi - they are there as a "speed hump" on people's expectations, and the people I'm talking about are those who aren't like you and I (coders) but are the people who ask why this isn't here yet.

I know you do great work and if you ever get this going again and want some help please let me know - I just wanted to make sure people's expectations were "grounded".

Personally, I'm hoping for great things from Unity-FG, and I believe that it'll be you who cracks the IDE stuff - you and/or Zeus - and I don't mean to sound so negative, either - I just don't want to see people expect something that (I believe) is not going to happen any time soon.

Cheers

PS I'm serious about lending a hand if you want/need it :)

Oberoten

August 31st, 2015, 10:01

What I personally would Love is a Wysiwg xml editor where I could poke and prod at values for positions etc inside the xml on the fly. For now my characteebsheetvdesign sessions consists of tweaking stuff by eyeball and then /reload all to see how it turned out. Repeat ad nauseum.

- obe

damned

August 31st, 2015, 10:23

ooooohhh this is a topic that interests me greatly. Fantasy Grounds rulesets are definitely its biggest selling point - sadly the perceived lack of a persons favourite ruleset being available seems to be a big detractor when there is a most excellent CoreRPG availabel but that is another story! The complexity of creating a ruleset seems overly complex to me - sometimes you need to edit 5 files to make one change.

if it was possible to rewrite the platform to make coding a ruleset easier I would be so in favour of that - but I cant say that I would be in favour of losing the years of current investment in rulesets. So many of these rulesets are so far ahead of any of the competing products - even if they pale next to the 5e ruleset they are still very powerful and assist greatly.

I am *not* a programmer but with lots of persistence and lots of help from much smarter (and very patient) people than me I have made some headway on ruleset development. It certainly is possible but it does take a stupidly long time to do it!

dulux-oz

August 31st, 2015, 10:51

if it was possible to rewrite the platform to make coding a ruleset easier I would be so in favour of that - but I cant say that I would be in favour of losing the years of current investment in rulesets. So many of these rulesets are so far ahead of any of the competing products - even if they pale next to the 5e ruleset they are still very powerful and assist greatly.

I'd be in favour too, but like you, I don't think I would at the expense of what has gone before - I mean, I'd take a crack at it, but the amount of work involved is more than I'm willing to take out of my other stuff. Now, if someone were willing to pay me so I could do it full-time... :)

I am *not* a programmer but with lots of persistence and lots of help from much smarter (and very patient) people than me I have made some headway on ruleset development. It certainly is possible but it does take a stupidly long time to do it!

Yeah, and that's one thing I wish wasn't so - the stupidly long time, not your ability, damned :p

psicodelix

August 31st, 2015, 11:48

dulux-oz

August 31st, 2015, 12:04

I agree that losing and rewriting all the current rulesets isn't viable, all the automation is a coding work that can't be made easier, but perhaps the new version could add a more user-friendly alternate ruleset window definition schema , HTML for example, so users could make his own charsheets with existing WYSIWYG editors, or even include its own integrated editor. Reprogramming a new FG version from scracth is a great time to fix old problems and add improvements, and I hope the guys at SmiteWorks don't miss this opportunity.

That I can agree with! And again, having looked at the Unity Tuts I think that that would be viable (the updated schema thing).

About the wizard, maybe we could make it as a collaborative project, I would happily release my prototype as open source, but i would wait for the launch of the new version and see what happens before doing anything.

I can get with that - let's revisit this idea once Doug and Moon give us the new FG.

Mind you, you'd want to set up the coding standards, etc, first before you opened it up fully (IMNSHO): you know, run it like a professional project.

Cheers

damned

August 31st, 2015, 12:32

At the simplest level a (html or xml or even straight graphic with areas defined by co-ordinates as interactive) that rolled dice into the chat window and added the description and the modifier and no further automation would allow people to make good looking basic rulesets for those niche games that its hard to justify 200 or 400 hours of dev work for.

Then again - CoreRPG does a big chunk of that already. But so few people use it...

dulux-oz

August 31st, 2015, 13:05

Maybe we need some sort of education campaign, to teach/inform people about what Core (& MoreCore) can do - what do people think?

psicodelix

August 31st, 2015, 13:21

Mind you, you'd want to set up the coding standards, etc, first before you opened it up fully (IMNSHO): you know, run it like a professional project.
Cheers

Yep, I'll keep it in mind.

psicodelix

August 31st, 2015, 13:34

Then again - CoreRPG does a big chunk of that already. But so few people use it...

Yes, CoreRPG is a great ruleset for a lot of games. Maybe another good approach would be create a super-mega-atomic-uber CoreRPG ruleset, with tons of configurable options to suit multiple game systems, and also with multiple graphic skins to choose the game's flavour. Users only had to set the options and save it as an "optionset" that could be shared as rulesets are.

Mask_of_winter

August 31st, 2015, 14:05

Maybe we need some sort of education campaign, to teach/inform people about what Core (& MoreCore) can do - what do people think?

Damned and I are running games for FGDaze! and FGCon that uses CoreRpg (and morecore) to run games currently not supported. He ran Dungeon World and I ran some Nights Black Agents.

The thing is people get spoiled with "official" rulesets. They feel they deserve better because they've paid for FG. I understand and respect that. After all, FG's competitor is one big CoreRpg with a lot more flexibility and better dice macro. And you can do that for free.

Doug also started a thread where people can add their "saved" character sheet for various system using CoreRpg but that thread hasn't been used in months.

With more work I believe some if not all of MoreCore features should be rolled into CoreRpg just like Psicodelix's improvements were integrated into CoreRpg at some point.

I'm not a coder but I like the idea of starting a CoreRpg promotion initiative. I can provide feedback, run games, shoot tutorial videos and be your cheerleader hehe

Trenloe

August 31st, 2015, 15:44

Doug also started a thread where people can add their "saved" character sheet for various system using CoreRpg but that thread hasn't been used in months.
Why haven't you and damned added your PC XML from your NBA and Dungeon World games then? ;)

dulux-oz

August 31st, 2015, 15:46

Why haven't you and damned added your PC XML from your NBA and Dungeon World games then? ;)

Ouch!

Burn!

damned

August 31st, 2015, 15:47

Why haven't you and damned added your PC XML from your NBA and Dungeon World games then? ;)

Good point... Ill upload mine shortly... a couple of Dungeon World Characters. CoreRPG handled it just fine (however we are in the process of building a full Dungeon World ruleset anyway...).

Mask_of_winter

August 31st, 2015, 15:58

Why haven't you and damned added your PC XML from your NBA and Dungeon World games then? ;)

Shared on Feb 5th: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?23138-Share-Game-System-Character-Sheets&p=199702&viewfull=1#post199702

Trenloe

August 31st, 2015, 16:00

Shared on Feb 5th: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?23138-Share-Game-System-Character-Sheets&p=199702&viewfull=1#post199702
Nice! :D

damned

August 31st, 2015, 16:09

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?23138-Share-Game-System-Character-Sheets&p=228648&viewfull=1#post228648

Oh and to answer the unspoken Q Trenloe there is no automatic resolution of the -6, 7-9, 10+ mechanic - it just outputs something like: Baldric: Hack & Slash: 9 and the GM will respond.

Trenloe

August 31st, 2015, 16:17

Baldric: Hack & Slash: 9 and the GM will respond.
https://youtu.be/SikKBvSuEd0

Wolfheart

August 31st, 2015, 18:22

Decided to drop by, checked 'What's New?', saw this thread title, began to read, felt a surge of hope, read some more, noticed I was reading year old posts, hope sank, ended up on the last page, sadness.
I would have backed this had I known about it.

Roll20 has 1 million users these days, and (besides being good enough at $0.00) this is because it is [drum roll] easy to use with any system.
Fantasy Ground looks better, feels better, but is a nightmare when it comes to ease of use. Okay, nightmare might be too strong a word.

And when I see comments like "The CoreRPG offers the opportunity to play almost any game" I feel my hackles rise. Because it remains an untruth, or a truth with heavy modifications. And I'm not even talking about automation or whatever. A newbie buying FG because it has the CoreRPG that allows you to play any game you want! [lately reduced to "almost any game"] will be scratching his head when he can't even configure the character sheet to reflect his or her game of choice. I'm simply talking about grabbing the dice, roll them, and read them as you would at a real tabletop. Not even this - the most basic functionality of an RPG unless its diceless or whatever - is off limits. Why is this so hard to grasp?
I mean, I'm not going to run away just because you admit that FG doesn't really cater to any type of game system. I've already bought FG and spent 150+ hours with it (mostly wrestling) and I spent that time because it has some qualities that are useful to me (mainly as a second-monitor GM screen - nifty, but in reality I'm using it because I paid for it, as there are better (and simpler) options that can do the same job - Evernote, for example).
Is it because you feel obliged to "defend" FG that this untruth about CoreRPG always is mentioned?
(When I say "you" I'm not sure who I'm talking to, I'm just venting a little here)

Anyway to get back to Roll20, which *will* be the default comparison VTT for the foreseeable future, I signed on, went in, and had dice set up to work with our favorite RPG within minutes. I can build maps tile by tile. I've got videochat integrated, there's a marketplace for tiles and tokens etc ...

...but it is FG I want to succeed and get a hefty percentage of those Roll20 users over. Character sheets, turn tracker, calendar, importing modules, there are so many good things about it too (though these elements too could use improvement - like having hypertext instead of link lists for example)..picking up the dice feels just that little bit better in FG .... but ...

...Roll20 are continually improving their software, and before too long they will have dice as realistic as FG and what then?

I feel like it's now or never for Fantasy Grounds, but that may just be the pessimist inside. I don't know.

Any news on the unity port? I bought FG in April, quickly realized the coding needed to make the program useful for me was too complicated / too little time, and have basically been sitting on it since then waiting for this much heralded port - not that I'm sure what the port will actually entail in terms of experience.

Sorry for coming off as angry (I'm not, just disappointed) and we've been over it before, but I still think it is inherently dishonest to claim that CoreRPG is the answer to all our needs.

That being said, I'm constantly on the lookout for a game of D&D played when I actually have the time to join, because I'm sure most of my irritation would evaporate once I could use FG to play a game it actually supports. The funny/sad thing is that all the RPGs I like to play - The Riddle of Steel, A Song of Ice and Fire, The Burning Wheel, Star Wars D6 - none of these are playable in FG in a way that makes it better to use FG instead of R20.

I am also disappointed the FG guys didn't jump on this opportunity (the failed wizard) and marketed it properly as it would be such a boon to their software (and potential higher sales).

Oh well.

Trenloe

August 31st, 2015, 18:33

I'm simply talking about grabbing the dice, roll them, and read them as you would at a real tabletop.
Can you please explain how you can't do this in Fantasy Grounds?

The funny/sad thing is that all the RPGs I like to play - The Riddle of Steel, A Song of Ice and Fire, The Burning Wheel, Star Wars D6 - none of these are playable in FG in a way that makes it better to use FG instead of R20.
I'm not familiar with the other RPGs you mention so can't comment. But, what's stopping you playing Star Wars D6?

Andraax

August 31st, 2015, 18:55

Roll20 has 1 million users these days, and (besides being good enough at $0.00) this is because it is [drum roll] easy to use with any system.

I'm one of those 1 million users and I haven't used it to play a game, ever (but I'm still on their list of subscribers). It took too much work to prep a session.

Wolfheart

August 31st, 2015, 18:57

Can you please explain how you can't do this in Fantasy Grounds?
When I grab those dice to play 'The Riddle of Steel', I need to roll an amount of 10-sided dice against a target number, and any "10s" explode.
YES, I *can* do this technically speaking (as in, right-click d10, choose amount, roll, check every roll for "10s" then re-roll those), but then what is the point of buying into Fantasy Grounds if it can't handle something as common in RPGs as exploding dice? That's the point I'm trying to make - that FG, in *my personal* opinion needs to go one stpe further and better if it is to remain a viable competitor to Roll20. In Roll20, I can, by simply checking a box, choose target numbers AND whether dice are explosive or not. Two simple clicks.
If I were to play Star Wars D6, it would be the same thing - yes, I can roll any amount of D6s, then roll one all by its lonesome to represent the Wild Die, but again, it becomes a hassle. A hassle to roll dice in a VTT! What if you could set die colors individually? Such a simple thing, and it would be a draw for fans of that out-of-print-yet-still-played game.

Which brings me to my comment about CoreRPG's alleged functionality as being a half-truth at best. Yes, you CAN play any game with it, but you can also play any game with a pencil and a post-it note if you're creative enough about it. FG is meant to be (as far as I'm aware) a VTT that allows you to play tabletop RPGs with people online. Or, let's say, I want to create a character for "ASOIAFRP". The CoreRPG character sheet, as it is (without going into LUA/xml, I mean) is simply not useful. It is useful for playing the CoreRPG. Again, a wizard that allowed us to change the look, layout and content of character sheets would go an incredibly long way.

I'm not familiar with the other RPGs you mention so can't comment. But, what's stopping you playing Star Wars D6?
Nothing, of course. I am aware (and have) the Star Wars D6 ruleset, and it looks good.
My point wasn't really what games you can and cannot play with FG. My point is that... wait, I have two, my two points are:

1) FG needs to ramp up its user-friendliness, first and foremost by adding more dice-rolling options, but also customizable character sheets (customizable without going into scripting, that is) &
2) The CoreRPG ruleset being advertised as "playable with any game" is wrong when there's no additional commentary on just how little flexibility there is. Why should I want to use FG to roll dice, then manually count them up, read off the numbers, and roll more dice for those exploding dice? I can just as well turn the webcam onto the table and roll real dice. Which defeats the point of using FG in the first place?

I'm not sure I'm making myself clear. Not a native English-speaker. I am not angry, I am not trying to offend, just to be clear about that, at least.
If / when FG is advertised as "Play D&D (and a few other games) online!" then, fine. It's the "Any game1!!" that makes my butt hurt.

You can play ANY game with a broken dishwasher. Axis & Allies, Monopoly, The One Ring, poker, Twister, Pathfinder.. but the dishwasher isn't going to make it easy on you.

Wolfheart

August 31st, 2015, 18:58

I'm one of those 1 million users and I haven't used it to play a game, ever (but I'm still on their list of subscribers). It took too much work to prep a session.

That's interesting. I guess that depends on playstyle - but that's also why I have found FG handy as a second-monitor GM screen.
(I run homebrew games, though, and know my setting so well I barely prep)

Trenloe

August 31st, 2015, 19:10

2) The CoreRPG ruleset being advertised as "playable with any game" is wrong when there's no additional commentary on just how little flexibility there is. Why should I want to use FG to roll dice, then manually count them up, read off the numbers, and roll more dice for those exploding dice? I can just as well turn the webcam onto the table and roll real dice. Which defeats the point of using FG in the first place?
I understand your issue with exploding dice, it would be great if that was in the base product. Buy I think you still have a misunderstanding of certain aspects of how FG works. Why do you think you have to manually count the total of a roll of multiple dice? This is just one example of quite a few statements you've made in your posts today that, IMHO aren't correct.

For example, yes there isn't a full "make a character sheet look exactly what I want it to look like" editor, but CoreRPG does allow you to do a lot with character sheets. See the examples here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?23138-Share-Game-System-Character-Sheets Character sheets people have made to play: All Flesh Must Be Eaten, Night's Black Agents, End of the World - Zombie Apocalypse, Marvel Heroic, Cyberpunk 2020, DCC, Call of Cthulhu v7 and Dungeon World.

Wolfheart

August 31st, 2015, 19:19

I understand your issue with exploding dice, it would be great if that was in the base product. Buy I think you still have a misunderstanding of certain aspects of how FG works. Why do you think you have to manually count the total of a roll of multiple dice? This is just one example of quite a few statements you've made in your posts today that, IMHO aren't correct.

For example, yes there isn't a full "make a character sheet look exactly what I want it to look like" editor, but CoreRPG does allow you to do a lot with character sheets. See the examples here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?23138-Share-Game-System-Character-Sheets Character sheets people have made to play: All Flesh Must Be Eaten, Night's Black Agents, End of the World - Zombie Apocalypse, Marvel Heroic, Cyberpunk 2020, DCC, Call of Cthulhu v7 and Dungeon World.

Well if I roll the dice to check against a Target Number, don't I have to count the individual numbers to check which dice succeeded and which didn't?
The software doesn't count the successes.

Yes, I know what can be customized, and damned also helped me go into the xml to make a character sheet closer to what my game needs. My game needs stuff that you *can't* do in FG without going into scripting, simple as that. I don't play any of those games, so while that's great for those who do, I'm still no further.