3D virtual tabletop Kickstarter

[Callum]

Have you folks seen this?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/840448191/tabletop-connect-3d-virtual-tabletop

[primarch]

Hi!

This is looking VERY good. No disrespect to FG which is my "go to" virtual tabletop, but the 3d lighting, fog of war and the way it can do 3d maps on the fly blows everything currently out there out of the water.

Very interesting indeed!

Primarch

[ddavison]

This was the guy we were planning to do a Kickstarter with for the 2D to 3D conversion of all the current art assets. In the end, we weren't able to come to terms that were agreeable to both parties, so we went separate ways. It sounds like he's going to be working on slowing adding features that are available in Fantasy Grounds today (i.e. networking, dice rolling, etc) but may not have any plans for character sheets, initiative trackers, etc. By the same token, we'll be building a front-end interface with features very much like what Brendon has in 3D virtual tabletop.

We are still in the prototyping phase at this point, but I don't expect the graphics to present a major problem. Here are some early screenshots. We might get better results with some updates to our existing image libraries, but I'm hoping to give an option that will automatically render what you already have installed or purchased but in a 3D-ish interface.

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[Callum]

Thanks for that info, Doug - very interesting!

Personally, I've always liked the Fantasy Grounds approach of focusing on the character sheet, and attempting to recreate the tabletop experience. I'm not one of those people who clamour for dynamic fog-of-war and lighting effects, as those don't seem to be to be key elements of the tabletop RPG experience. Sure, they'd be fun add-ons - but I'd definitely put them at the bottom of my to-do list. This fellow seem to be approaching things from the other direction, and the speedy 3D map-making is quite impressive. If there was some way that this could be bolted on to Fantasy Grounds, then I might be interested in paying something for it - but it's never going to replace FG as my virtual tabletop, even if all the additional features he's talking about come to be.

[AstaSyneri]

There is an inherent problem with the 3D approach: While it looks extremely cool, it makes things much more difficult for the GM to provide the assets for his campaign.

Personally I had seen that and discarded it, because there is no additional value for me. In FG I can use maps I did in Photoshop, export floor plans from PDFs or Google Images, or in a pinch use it as I would my Chessex BattleMat (if i ever find out where it ended up at ;-)).

My next step is to look at transparent tokens to liberally sprinkle into my self-generated maps, instead of such a gimmick.

Hence a layered image is much more valuable to me (Layer 0 = Map, Layer 1 = Ground level stuff, Layer 2 = Combatants, Layer 3 = overhead Stuff like Canopy Trees or Roofs, etc.).

[grimm182]

I run some custom games...there are times when Fog of War, Line of Sight, Movement and Distance are just as important (to me) as the story.
For those with dual monitors (or large displays)...you can always run multiple apps to get the best of both. :)

[Gamerprinter]

Yeah, but even for those who back this Kickstarter, once it's ready you now need to pay for a monthly subscription. No Kickstarter is worth that to me. I don't subscribe to any other online service for gaming, and I wouldn't start here. Stand-alone VT programs I can operate from my laptop while not being online is my situation. Doing otherwise is not condusive to my play-style. So it's worth nothing to me.

[ddavison]

There is an inherent problem with the 3D approach: While it looks extremely cool, it makes things much more difficult for the GM to provide the assets for his campaign.

Personally I had seen that and discarded it, because there is no additional value for me. In FG I can use maps I did in Photoshop, export floor plans from PDFs or Google Images, or in a pinch use it as I would my Chessex BattleMat (if i ever find out where it ended up at ;-)).

My next step is to look at transparent tokens to liberally sprinkle into my self-generated maps, instead of such a gimmick.

Hence a layered image is much more valuable to me (Layer 0 = Map, Layer 1 = Ground level stuff, Layer 2 = Combatants, Layer 3 = overhead Stuff like Canopy Trees or Roofs, etc.).

With the screenshots I posted, those are all done with existing 2D maps and token images I already have loaded into FG. By dropping out the background and standing them up, it gives the impression of true 3D. If you were to look from the side, they would be extremely thin; however, by constantly updating them to maintain their position respective to the camera view, they will continue to look like real minis.

Layered maps are on our list too though.

-Doug

[dr_venture]

With the screenshots I posted, those are all done with existing 2D maps and token images I already have loaded into FG. By dropping out the background and standing them up, it gives the impression of true 3D. If you were to look from the side, they would be extremely thin; however, by constantly updating them to maintain their position respective to the camera view, they will continue to look like real minis.

Even cooler, if you guys supported animated 2D tokens rendered in 3D, you'd roughly have the gaming table equivalent of the old Bungie game Marathon, which used all 2D sprites rendered into a 3D space... which actually worked pretty well for what it was. That'd be pretty cool :)

[Mgrancey]

Quite honestly I am very satisfied with Fantasy Grounds, any improvements are of course welcome. But I like FG and am not tempted just cause something is new, shiny, and supposedly better. New players, since I have an ultimate license, simply have to download and install, then put in my alias. It is more than just a map and with being able to dynamically upload images now, not sure when added, it would take significant advancements in another VTT to tempt me.

[ddavison]

Even cooler, if you guys supported animated 2D tokens rendered in 3D, you'd roughly have the gaming table equivalent of the old Bungie game Marathon, which used all 2D sprites rendered into a 3D space... which actually worked pretty well for what it was. That'd be pretty cool :)

I just did a quick Google search of the game you mentioned. That does look very cool.

I'm still playing around with different options and not settled on any one method. We have a lot of top down tokens we just included, and those would probably need to be pog style or some other method. We had a lot of these discussions with Brendon before we went our separate ways and he's started using many of these suggestions. I have some other thoughts on some cool enhancements and approaches that might work. The early graphics work was done in a day or two, but there is a lot more work to get all the plumbing in place to make it interact with existing FG clients and data and to support all the items we need it to support.

[AstaSyneri]

Doug - I didn't want to criticize your efforts - they look cool (especially since it's just a technology study). I just wanted to point out that it's a matter of diminishing returns. You may feel forced to invest in this eye candy because so many other VTT get customers with it, but in the end it's something that I doubt will bring that many new customers to FG (although that would be very find with me).


Quite honestly I am very satisfied with Fantasy Grounds, any improvements are of course welcome. But I like FG and am not tempted just cause something is new, shiny, and supposedly better. New players, since I have an ultimate license, simply have to download and install, then put in my alias. It is more than just a map and with being able to dynamically upload images now, not sure when added, it would take significant advancements in another VTT to tempt me.

This exactly. I am looking for functionality that makes my life as a GM easier, since life conspires to rob my time anyway. And I hate subscriptions that just rob me of value when I don't have the time to use them (sth like the Pathfinder Adventure Path subscription is an exception).

[Trenloe]

... and with being able to dynamically upload images now, not sure when added....
If you mean adding an image to the campaign \images directory is immediately seen in the "Maps and Images" list in FG without having to reload the ruleset, I'm pretty sure this has been available since I started using FG - so, over 2 years.