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Trenloe
August 13th, 2013, 16:16
Players and GMs please be aware of the Faction changes that come into play in 2 days!

Info regarding how Faction Missions will be handled in Season 5: http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lf4z?The-Year-of-the-Demon-Begins

Essentially, Faction missions will go away - for previous seasons you can still request the GM to give you the faction mission, but it is just for flavour - no prestige is linked to it. Prestige is now linked to completing the primary scenario goal (1 prestige) and by completing a secondary goal (1 prestige) - this secondary goal is not always given to you nor is it obvious. The primary success condition for a Season 0–2 scenario is the overall scenario’s goal; Season 3–4 scenarios instead use the Success Condition included after the scenario’s Conclusion section. Always keeps your eyes open for opportunities to help the pathfinders, but prepare to miss the secondary goal occasionally and not get full prestige!

All season 0-4 scenarios will get a secondary goal assigned to them - details of how this will be presented to come.

Factions are still important. If you read the linked post above you will see that specific scenarios are good for specific factions - in these you will get the change to further the goals of the listed faction and if you do (and you're a member of that faction) you will get a boon.

Skellan
August 13th, 2013, 17:44
I am glad they are getting rid of the missions, they are fiddly and often unfair. Asecondary objective encourages the party to work together and thats what its all about :)

Nightfiend
August 15th, 2013, 02:19
I also agree that seeing them go is a good thing. They take up time that could be spent on a more in-depth primary goal and immersion in the main story line.

Nightfiend
August 16th, 2013, 23:26
After doing some reading, I understand the 2nd PP is going to come from a none disclosed mission within the scenario. This sounds like it will take less time from the main objective, so it's a good thing. I also see that they are going to post side missions for the older scenarios. This hasn't been updated yet, so I'm wondering what other GMs are doing for the 2nd PP for the games that are currently being run?

I wish they would allow the GM to award this 2nd PP for players that role-play well and (or) stay focused within the guidelines of their factions objectives. I don't think this should require a specific mission to be accomplished. I think this would allow more focus on players role-playing and focusing on knowing their factions motivations.

Malkavian_Andi
August 17th, 2013, 00:00
I also see that they are going to post side missions for the older scenarios. This hasn't been updated yet, so I'm wondering what other GMs are doing for the 2nd PP for the games that are currently being run?As far as I have read, there's an official guideline for that. As long as the secondary missions for season 0-4 scenarios aren't released, the 2nd PP will be awarded if the characters resolved enough encounters to gain the 1 XP for the scenario. (The 1st PP is awarded for completing the main mission goal, as given to the PCs at the start of the scenario, and as described at the end of the scenario pdf.)


I wish they would allow the GM to award this 2nd PP for players that role-play well and (or) stay focused within the guidelines of their factions objectives. I don't think this should require a specific mission to be accomplished. I think this would allow more focus on players role-playing and focusing on knowing their factions motivations.Maybe some of the secondary missions will actually involve roleplaying, just like a few of the faction missions did.
I understand there will also be certain opportunities to focus on the faction motivations, resulting in special boons for members of some factions.

Nickademus
August 17th, 2013, 00:29
Role-playing is subjective and there are far too varying of opinions. While in a few instances it would be a nice reward for someone that is actually making the game more enjoyable for everyone through the RP of their character, most of the time I imagine it would boil down to an argument/dispute/fight over whether a player role-played well enough to deserve the prestige. I for one do not want to be a GM in that situation. Goals are tangible. A player told to retrieve an item that comes back empty handed is far less likely to complain about not getting the prestige.

On another note, the feeling I got from perusing the Society forums was that the second non-disclosed mission would become evident during the play session. It isn't going to be a 'guess what the developer was thinking' situation where at the end of the scenario the GM pulls back the curtain and you see if you happened to accomplish that unknown goal. (Of course, I could be totally wrong and I for one would love the chaos of not knowing what the second mission is.)

And for the faction missions, I hear that they are still there in a sense. They are just more like how you would have expected them in the first place. Certain scenarios will have a way for a character to promote their faction's personal goals during the quest. It is not told to them ahead of time and they choose whether to do anything or not, but if they succeed at bettering the faction they receive a boon (from the faction I assume). So instead of prestige, you will get boon rewards from your faction for being true to its purpose. I could be wrong about this too as I don't spend that much time surfing for Society info, but nevertheless its food for thought.

Nightfiend
August 17th, 2013, 03:46
Role-playing is subjective and there are far too varying of opinions. While in a few instances it would be a nice reward for someone that is actually making the game more enjoyable for everyone through the RP of their character, most of the time I imagine it would boil down to an argument/dispute/fight over whether a player role-played well enough to deserve the prestige. I for one do not want to be a GM in that situation. Goals are tangible. A player told to retrieve an item that comes back empty handed is far less likely to complain about not getting the prestige.

I see your point on this one. I guess I'm used to playing with a set table of players. I have been playing RPG over 30+ years, mostly with the same friends. I have, in a short amount of time, seen a few differences in the interpretation of the rules. Knowing the players well makes a difference on how they would react to a, "You sucked this game" comment. LoL Not assigning a PP because the GM said you didn't RP well enough would, with no doubt, cause a problem

[/QUOTE] And for the faction missions, I hear that they are still there in a sense. They are just more like how you would have expected them in the first place. Certain scenarios will have a way for a character to promote their faction's personal goals during the quest. It is not told to them ahead of time and they choose whether to do anything or not, but if they succeed at bettering the faction they receive a boon (from the faction I assume). So instead of prestige, you will get boon rewards from your faction for being true to its purpose. I could be wrong about this too as I don't spend that much time surfing for Society info, but nevertheless its food for thought.[/QUOTE]

It will be interesting to see this play out. I think they are hoping to free more time for the base of the scenario. A lot of people have been complaining about feeling hurried, and using that as their chief complaint about the inventory tracking sheet. I could be wrong, but I think this is their way of freeing up a little more time. In all I'm glad for the change, if it allows the GM not to be rushed, and more time for the end of the adventure.

Nightfiend
August 17th, 2013, 03:50
As far as I have read, there's an official guideline for that. As long as the secondary missions for season 0-4 scenarios aren't released, the 2nd PP will be awarded if the characters resolved enough encounters to gain the 1 XP for the scenario. (The 1st PP is awarded for completing the main mission goal, as given to the PCs at the start of the scenario, and as described at the end of the scenario pdf.)

Thanks for the reply Malkavian,

So, as long as they complete the base of the adventure and are successful, (Gaining 1 xp), they get the 2nd PP?

Trenloe
August 17th, 2013, 06:26
Thanks for the reply Malkavian,

So, as long as they complete the base of the adventure and are successful, (Gaining 1 xp), they get the 2nd PP?
That is not strictly true - you can get 1xp but not be successful (complete the mission). Therefore you would just get 1pp if you got 1xp (doing the minimum of 3 encounters) and you would get an extra 1 pp if you completed the scenario goal.

See this thread for some clarification on the "temporary GenCon ruling" which is in effect until the secondary mission document comes out. http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q1gy?Clarified-Rules-for-Earning-Prestige-Points

Essentially:

So just to clarify. Faction missions listed in seasons 0-4 are for flavor only now. We no longer have to hand out faction missions unless we want to. At GenCon (for seasons 0-4) we will award 1 prestige if the player received 1 XP and we will award 1 prestige if the player met the mission objective/success conditions.

Nightfiend
August 17th, 2013, 13:48
Thanks Trenloe, I think I have the just of it now.

Malkavian_Andi
August 18th, 2013, 00:52
It will be interesting to see this play out.I think it's actually quite well done. I played "The Glass River Rescue" yesterday, and those faction-specific moments were included in the normal flow of the scenario. The NPCs just said things like "We'd like to do certain things, and we believe some of you might be especially interested in talking about that."
Also, the faction boons can be quite nice, like getting a permanent +2 to day job rolls. I suppose it will definitely be worth playing the season 5 scenarios with a character from a faction that gets a special boon.

Trenloe
February 4th, 2014, 11:08
Mid-season faction Updates - includes info on the scenarios specific factions should concentrate their efforts on: http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lftb?MidSeason-Faction-Updates

d1wright
March 9th, 2016, 15:10
Just to complete the loop on this thread as I just had to look it up. The Secondary Goals for older scenarios can be found at:

http://paizo.com/products/btpy928k?

If the product link above changes in the future, here's a link to a blog post that may still work:

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lfcy?Secondary-Success-Conditions