13th Age

[morgurth]

I tried searching the forums but came up empty handed.

Is anyone working on a 13th Age ruleset for FG2?

[Eru the One]

I haven't started anything, but I was waiting to see if others were interested, and was waiting for FG 3.0 to come out since it's more cross-system friendly :).

[morgurth]

I might tinker around. Just so I can familiarize myself with ruleset extensions. I was doing alright with module creation and stuff.

[primarch]

Hi!

I too would be interested in a ruleset for 13th age.

Primarch

[morgurth]

I've started messing around with the 3.0 version, but I'm probably not the only one who's started on this.

I wonder if there's anyone working on Numenera as well?

[dberkompas]

I've started on 13th Age ruleset, but haven't done anything except change the copyright notice and put the logo on the background. I'm using v3 to begin with, since starting with CoreRPG seems the way to go.

Maybe we could set up a repository of some sort, and have a community project to make this a reality.

If you're not already on the 13th Age G+ group, come check it out. Some good stuff going on there.
(I'm going to try my hand at creating an escalation die in FG, mostly as a learning tool)


BoomerET

[ravencraft]

I want to add my request for a 13th age ruleset.

[Moon Wizard]

If you haven't looked already, I would recommend looking at the v3.0 alpha in Laboratory forum with the new ruleset layering feature and the included CoreRPG.

Either way, based on the reviews on the system I read today, it seems like the 4E ruleset might be a good ruleset to chop up for 13th Age. Of course, I haven't actually read the rulebook, so that recommendation is just from a very high level.

Cheers,
JPG

[morgurth]

I was using the 4E hacked up (taking in pieces as I go, starting with the character sheet). I need to create some armor and some other info based on the class wearing it, plus some logic to handle how Physical Defense and Mental Defense are calculated. Then work sidetracked me a bit. :)

[dberkompas]

morguth,

Is this a project that you alone would prefer to work on? I'd be more than happy to lend a hand, whether it's entering data, writing Lua code, etc.

I have a fair amount of development background, and started learning the new v3.0 CoreRPG


BoomerET

[hotchip_hq]

Another vote for a 13th Age ruleset.

[spacce1889]

I would love a copy as well.
fyi... the srd might be up soon https://www.pelgranepress.com/?p=12896
and a demo module and pregens are available https://www.pelgranepress.com/site/?tag=download&cat=248

[morgurth]

morguth,

Is this a project that you alone would prefer to work on? I'd be more than happy to lend a hand, whether it's entering data, writing Lua code, etc.

I have a fair amount of development background, and started learning the new v3.0 CoreRPG


BoomerET

I'm mainly just doing it to learn how to create a ruleset. I'm happy to share what little bit I've done. I haven't had time lately to work on it though.

[Nabikasu]

Hey guys. I don't mean to thread necro, but this seems to be the only post on 13th Age for FG; has there been any developments on the ruleset?

[dberkompas]

FG3 just came out of Alpha, so I may be able to find some time to continue my work.

As it currently runs, it uses 4e as the basis, with a 13th age theme.


BoomerET

[Trenloe]

13th Age SRD has been published under the OGL: https://www.pelgranepress.com/?p=13316

This opens up lots of FG possibilities... :)

[Xorn]

I'm really getting into 13th Age as well. We're currently playing using the 4E ruleset, but I'd really like to get a 13th Age one going. What is the most up to date documentation I should look at for making a FG3 ruleset? I've been using FG long enough that it's time I learned how to make a ruleset, really. Especially with an SRD, 13th Age could be awesome. (And yes JPG, 13A is most definitely closest to 4E.)

[Zeus]

There isn't very much in depth 3.0 documentation online available at the moment aside from whats detailed in the patch notes (see FG's program folder after you update to the beta release of 3.0) and what you can gleam here from the forums, devs and other forum members who are actively developing with the 3.0 beta. The current Library documentation is still (largely) valid so probably best to start with the anatomy of a ruleset and the ruleset reference docs.

Having said that, I have personally found digging into the new CoreRPG and 3.5E/4E rulesets to a good place to start with 3.0. With these existing rulesets you have a ready reference of:

- how the new 3.0 ruleset inheritance (layering) functionality works
- examples of how game mechanics (D&D in these example) are actually implemented
- re-usable GUI assets like icons, frames and fonts
- pre-cooked control templates for more advanced controls like dynamic titlebars, calendars and rollable tables to name but a few

In addition, if you take a look at the new Numenera ruleset, you'll get the added advantage of seeing a ruleset being developed from the ground up. MW is actively developing the ruleset for his personal weekly Numenera campaign. MW and I are also collaborating on the new 5E ruleset so happy to provide any assistance if you ave any specific questions. 5E isn't part of the beta yet, mainly as the character sheet(s) are in pieces and being re-written from the ground up but I expect it will be included in the near future.

[Nickademus]

What is the most up to date documentation I should look at for making a FG3 ruleset?


There isn't very much in depth 3.0 documentation online available at the moment...

I am hesitant about converting to 3.0 myself as one of my GMs has had problems so I can't access the patch notes but I am definitely interested in digging into 3.0 when its ready. If in the future before the live release of the version (and I'm assuming the documentation that would accompany it) a centralized collection of changes and new features became available, I would also be interested in it. My Chronic games are waiting for the update and I want to make use of all the new goodies when designing it. (It also helps to have a good grasp of things before running demos to teach other people.)

In the mean time, instead of surfing through the forums for information that will be inevitable collected at some point, I am working on the role-play content for the games.

[spacce1889]

Any one working on this?

[Valarian]

I wonder if there's anyone working on Numenera as well?
I've done one (link in the sig) and JPG has done one (currently in Test/Dev stream I think).

[grizbrasfort]

Hi,

I too would be interested in a ruleset for 13th age

Griz

[lokiare]

I'm working a 13th age ruleset, but its for a private game and may not be released to the public. I'm nearly done. I'm sure if people donated money then it would get released to the public. Some screenshots:

https://i.imgur.com/605ZDM1l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/B7MbHiV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0ADTw2d.jpg

[lokiare]

Just an update on this. We contacted the creators of 13th age and they told us to talk to Smiteworks about making a rule set and that they can't really give us permission to release it to the public because of copyright issues with the OGL software clause.

Smiteworks was requested to contact the developers of 13th Age. So its up in the air right now as to if we release it to the public. Also if we did we would probably have a donate link somewhere to support further development. What does everyone think?

[ddavison]

Let me circle up with Moon_Wizard and we can discuss contacting the publisher for 13th Age. I think you'll find that a lot of times, most publishers prefer dealing with another company moreso than dealing with individuals. It's nothing against individual gamers, it's just that a company has a more visible presence. If we sign an agreement with them, they can see our track record and know that we won't go away or break a contract without serious repurcussions and risk of loss to our own interests and reputation.

[damned]

Also if we did we would probably have a donate link somewhere to support further development. What does everyone think?

If SW and the Pub can come to some agreement and you can turn it into a commercial ruleset might be the best option?
I dont play 13th Age but Im all for supporting the people who put in hard work on building these rulesets.
Either way it will probably never make you more than beer money but still - it is nice to get *something* back for your efforts...

[lokiare]

I think due to the fact 13th Age is an Open Game License game, it precludes selling software based on it in any shape or form. However I think we can accept donations through something like paypal 'for our efforts' and still be in good legal territory. How have you handled OGL games in the past?

[ddavison]

I don't think that is accurate. You just need to include the OGL license. C&C is an OGL game system and all of the D&D/PFRPG adventures we sell are OGL. OGL does not mean that the entire system, text and images is OGL -- only that certain parts are. With a license from the original author, you can sell the entirety of the product which includes content covered under the OGL. Without a license, you could give away and freely distribute only the parts of the content which are explicitly marked as OGL, but none of the other material. I'm unsure if donations would violate the distribution of the OGL material -- you'd have to research that separately.

That is my understanding anyway. I am not a lawyer. Please take whatever steps you need to protect yourself and all that jazz.

How have we implemented that sort of thing ourselves?
1. We have chosen to license directly with the publisher whenever possible to avoid any potential conflicts and also to give back to the original authors
2. For un-licensed distribution of OGL, we include OGL material for free in our core product as free add-ons that download for use. These are limited to OGL material that is clearly marked as such and you'll see that the same material is available at other sites publicly such as d20pfsrd.org.

[Trenloe]

I think due to the fact 13th Age is an Open Game License game, it precludes selling software based on it in any shape or form. However I think we can accept donations through something like paypal 'for our efforts' and still be in good legal territory. How have you handled OGL games in the past?
Doug's reply is accurate - the OGL doesn't stop you selling anything that is OGL at all, otherwise Paizo couldn't sell Pathfinder as the majority of the core product uses the d20 OGL from Wizards of the Coast. The OGL allows you to use material published under the OGL in your own products - provided you include a copy of the full OGL in your product and include details of the source of any OGL material in the final section (Section 15) of the OGL you include in your product. See an example of this in any Paizo Pathfinder product - look at the included OGL, usually towards the back of the product.

Familiarise yourself with what material is covered by the OGL and what is considered "product identity" which is not covered by the OGL and is protected by copyright. Most material published under the OGL that contains product identity material will have that mentioned - usually on a title/contents page where the product copyright is mentioned. For example, from a recently published Paizo adventure path book:

Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open
Content: All trademarks, registered trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, etc.), dialogue, plots, storylines, locations, characters, artwork, and trade dress.
(Elements that have previously been designated as Open Game Content or are in the public domain are not included in this declaration.)

Open Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity (see above), the game mechanics of this Paizo Publishing game product are Open Game
Content, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a Section 1(d). No portion of this work other than the material designated as Open Game Content may
be reproduced in any form without written permission.

So, as long as you stick to material covered by an OGL and include the OGL with all relevant sources listed in section 15, you are OK to do pretty much what you want with the material - sell it, distribute it with a donation, etc.. You can, of course, also combine your own material with the product and other material as long as you adhere to the copyright/creative commons/whatever requirements of that material. The golden rule - if material is not specifically covered by the OGL or a creative commons license then assume that it is covered by copyright unless it is indicated otherwise. "Free", available for download on the Internet, someone else has distributed it/put the info on a website, etc. does not make material copyright free.

[lokiare]

I don't think that is accurate. You just need to include the OGL license. C&C is an OGL game system and all of the D&D/PFRPG adventures we sell are OGL. OGL does not mean that the entire system, text and images is OGL -- only that certain parts are. With a license from the original author, you can sell the entirety of the product which includes content covered under the OGL. Without a license, you could give away and freely distribute only the parts of the content which are explicitly marked as OGL, but none of the other material. I'm unsure if donations would violate the distribution of the OGL material -- you'd have to research that separately.

That is my understanding anyway. I am not a lawyer. Please take whatever steps you need to protect yourself and all that jazz.

How have we implemented that sort of thing ourselves?
1. We have chosen to license directly with the publisher whenever possible to avoid any potential conflicts and also to give back to the original authors
2. For un-licensed distribution of OGL, we include OGL material for free in our core product as free add-ons that download for use. These are limited to OGL material that is clearly marked as such and you'll see that the same material is available at other sites publicly such as d20pfsrd.org.


Doug's reply is accurate - the OGL doesn't stop you selling anything that is OGL at all, otherwise Paizo couldn't sell Pathfinder as the majority of the core product uses the d20 OGL from Wizards of the Coast. The OGL allows you to use material published under the OGL in your own products - provided you include a copy of the full OGL in your product and include details of the source of any OGL material in the final section (Section 15) of the OGL you include in your product. See an example of this in any Paizo Pathfinder product - look at the included OGL, usually towards the back of the product.

Familiarise yourself with what material is covered by the OGL and what is considered "product identity" which is not covered by the OGL and is protected by copyright. Most material published under the OGL that contains product identity material will have that mentioned - usually on a title/contents page where the product copyright is mentioned. For example, from a recently published Paizo adventure path book:

Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open
Content: All trademarks, registered trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, etc.), dialogue, plots, storylines, locations, characters, artwork, and trade dress.
(Elements that have previously been designated as Open Game Content or are in the public domain are not included in this declaration.)

Open Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity (see above), the game mechanics of this Paizo Publishing game product are Open Game
Content, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a Section 1(d). No portion of this work other than the material designated as Open Game Content may
be reproduced in any form without written permission.

So, as long as you stick to material covered by an OGL and include the OGL with all relevant sources listed in section 15, you are OK to do pretty much what you want with the material - sell it, distribute it with a donation, etc.. You can, of course, also combine your own material with the product and other material as long as you adhere to the copyright/creative commons/whatever requirements of that material. The golden rule - if material is not specifically covered by the OGL or a creative commons license then assume that it is covered by copyright unless it is indicated otherwise. "Free", available for download on the Internet, someone else has distributed it/put the info on a website, etc. does not make material copyright free.

I see. I must have been thinking about the D20 license. So basically all we have to do is wait for Smiteworks to contact Pelgrane Press and see what happens there, right?

[Trenloe]

I see. I must have been thinking about the D20 license. So basically all we have to do is wait for Smiteworks to contact Pelgrane Press and see what happens there, right?
d20 is covered by the open gaming license - in fact, the OGL was created by WotC for d20: https://www.d20srd.org/ogl.htm So, everything I quoted above is correct - I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick thinking that "it precludes selling software based on it in any shape or form" - the OGL most certainly does not.

13th Age is published under this same OGL: https://www.13thagesrd.com/legal and includes an SRD (System Reference Document) of what you can include in your own products (as long as you include the OGL statement in your product and don't use materials called out as product identity). 13th Age SRD here: https://www.13thagesrd.com/

However, if you want approval from the producers of 13th Age (Fire Opal Media) then this is different and is the stage you are at now - if you want to be able to use some 13th Age icons/graphics, story entries, etc. then you need approval from Fire Opal Media. You've asked them and they've pointed you to Smiteworks. If you want the ruleset to have their full backing it looks like you'll have talk with Smiteworks first.

This shouldn't stop you further developing your ruleset as long as it complies with the OGL under which 13th Age has been released: https://www.13thagesrd.com/legal

[ddavison]

I shot a note over to our contact at Pelgrane Press Ltd. as well to get their thoughts on whether or not we can extend the license to cover 13th Age. So far we have not produced any rulesets for Pelgrane Press, although we've come close on Trail of Cthulhu and made some early headway on GUMSHOE before stalling out. Our track record isn't the greatest with them so far (from our end), so I'm a little hesitant to provide them with any guarantees that we will complete a full ruleset. It's a pretty big endeavor to do it fully and at a commercial level.

[ddavison]

SmiteWorks won't get the license to carry this as an official ruleset until we show success at releasing one of the other rulesets we've already requested and received a license for from them.

[lokiare]

Ok, so as long as I follow their OGL rules posted on their site we can release it as a 'free' rule set? I can live with that. I'll have to see what they consider product identity. If its the kind of stuff I think it is, we can just release it without a library component (sorry 13th age fans) and we'll be fine.

I'd rather go through the various companies involved and be able to use logos and whatnot, but I guess we can't have everything. Maybe after we release it and it fully works they'll change their minds.

Edit: As of right now it automates about 90% of 13th Age. A full list of what features we have so far:

Icons and Icon relationships (rolls included).

Level bonus to certain rolls and stats.

Recoveries are fully automated (you drag the die that your recovery uses to the recovery box and it rolls based on your level and con mod)

Defenses are calculated (AC, PD, MD).

Backgrounds (allowing you to swap the ability bonus when you roll)

The DM can set a Background check DC on the party tab and when players roll skill checks the chat log will tell them if they passed or failed. (in 13th age dice are always rolled in the open.)

Weapon damage is the weapon dice multiplied by the characters level (1 dice roll per level).

Escalation Die is automated (and auto added to player rolls).

Recharge powers roll for recharge when appropriate (and uncheck their used box if they recharge).

Critical hits work properly.

All of the conditions are implemented properly: Confused, Dazed, Fear, Hampered, Helpless, Stuck, Stunned, Vulnerable, Weakened.

Saves are implemented and the players can choose the DC type from a cycle box next to the saves.

Death saves are implemented, including the recovery usage if you roll high enough.

Resistance is implemented, including rolling when an attack roll isn't present. You can even 'fake' an attack roll and it will use that for resistance.

Temp HP stack properly.

Incremental Advance check boxes are provided to keep track of what a player has advanced.

Last gasp save check boxes below the death save check boxes.

Really this thing is ready for beta.

[damned]

Nice job lokiare1
Have a look at the Trail of Cthulhu ruleset. This is in a similar position - its a great ruleset - looks awesome - but cannot include the library modules (but there is a few things happening in the background on that - fingers crossed).

[lokiare]

Nice. Hopefully we can get something figured out.

By the way since I have your attention, is FG planning on going 3D at any point? A 3D map and block mapping software would be awesome. Something simple where you just drag and drop 3D 'blocks' next to each other to create maps. Then you can put 3d 'tiles' or 'blocks' packs in the store and maybe 3D character tokens.

[Trenloe]

Ok, so as long as I follow their OGL rules posted on their site we can release it as a 'free' rule set? I can live with that. I'll have to see what they consider product identity. If its the kind of stuff I think it is, we can just release it without a library component (sorry 13th age fans) and we'll be fine.
As I mentioned above, you can include anything that is in the SRD: https://www.13thagesrd.com/ Which basically contains most of the core rules so it means you can provide a pretty comprehensive library module with just the data from the SRD.

[morgurth]

I wouldn't mind beta testing this. I was going to start one, but a new job and a move to a new state interfered with that. So, now that I have some time, I'm debating 13th Age again or seeing if I can extend the Numenera to handle The Strange (mostly similar, just that a character can have multiple focus. It would be nice if, sort of like the mood lighting, a GM could trigger the interface to change to match what recursion you are in).

[dberkompas]

Moved to The Strange thread.

[damned]

There is an enhanced Mood Lighting extension here.
Trenloe this should be added to the Extensions List.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?21219-HoloGnome-s-MoodLighting-Extension-for-CoreRPG&highlight=mood

[Trenloe]

There is an enhanced Mood Lighting extension here.
Trenloe this should be added to the Extensions List.
You're an Immortal, can't you do it? ;)

[damned]

Errr... yes... and no.

[morgurth]

I was talking about something that would trigger a change to the lighting, icons, background etc. :)

Also, I guess I should go check PAR5E out again and see about using it to pull in the 13th Age SRD from the EN World web pages.

[lokiare]

I was talking about something that would trigger a change to the lighting, icons, background etc. :)

Also, I guess I should go check PAR5E out again and see about using it to pull in the 13th Age SRD from the EN World web pages.

I'm in the process of creating a library based on that, but could it be done with PAR5E? or would it mess up the formatting?

[morgurth]

I messed with PAR5E a while back. Changing some of the perl to handle the fields necessary for Pathfinder. I was working on a python script to scrape the Pathfinder SRD and put it in a comma delimited file for PAR5E to use to create the library. Work, moving, life all got in the way. :)

[Mgrancey]

Am interested in trying out 13th Age, has anyone created/modified the character sheets or more? If so would appreciate getting a copy of it.

AMEND: PM'd person who has been working on rulesset.

[Xorn]

FYI, until there is a completed ruleset, the 4E ruleset works very well for 13th Age already. I ran a campaign for a good duration using it.

[lokiare]

Yes, but there are a number of things that you have to manually do like double damage on a crit, deal half damage on resistance, roll resistance for non attack roll attacks, keep track of the escalation die and remember to add it to your attacks each round, manually calculate and apply recoveries, manually remember which cyclic spells you cast and recover on an even escalation die, manually remember and apply the effects of conditions, etc...etc...

Lots of stuff. The 13th Age ruleset takes care of all of this.

[morgurth]

Any chance of this being released for playtesting? I'd like to put my Primeval Thule adventures into it. :)

[lokiare]

Any chance of this being released for playtesting? I'd like to put my Primeval Thule adventures into it. :)

We've decided to release the beta without the library (as its still a work in progress).

So here it is as an attachment. Please send any donations through Paypal to [email protected] if you enjoyed the efforts and the ease of use.

Things to note:
*Drag one dice for your recoveries into the dice slot, the rule set rolls a number of those dice equal to your level.
*critical damage is doubled on the second line so it looks like you rolled normal damage, but the second line will show twice as much damage.
*This is a beta, you may encounter bugs, inaccuracies, or strange words that show up in the chat window (debug data).
*To use a background first click the ability score button that you and your DM have decided is appropriate then roll the check.
*Incremental advances are check boxes that are only for you to remember which advances you've made, they don't keep track of changes to your sheet.
*On the icons tab of the party sheet the DM can roll the icon check for all party members and it remembers them there, however if a party member rolls it will overwrite this value.
*Most of the features of 13th Age have been built in. Things like ongoing damage stacking, the overcoming magic resistance, etc...etc... and most of them are automatic.
*If you put "recharge 11" into a powers top left box it may roll to recharge automatically on a quick rest, or it might just throw an error. There is a bug. I'm working on it.

I started another thread for questions and support here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?22447-13th-Age-rule-set-released-%28Beta%29

I did this so that I can post updates in the first post of the thread.

Edit: To install the rule set simply drop the .pak file into your fantasy grounds "ruleset" folder.