Do people have player licenses

[Layander]

I notice a lot of games do not get off the ground if the game master does not have an ultimate license. Do most people here have a license, or do they look around for ultimate only gm's?

What kind of license do you have?

[Valarian]

I've actually collected a number of licenses in my time using Fantasy Grounds. Ultimate is the one I use most, with a Full license on my netbook for development.

[Doswelk]

we had a collection of Full and lite licenses way back in 2005 (when we first bought FGII) over the years most have upgraded to full.

I got an Ultimate license a while back so I could run open games.

It depends on you/your group I think, we were an existing group who all bought FGII to play together, if you a lone person looking for a group then a lite license gives you more options (full is better of course, unless you are SURE you do not want to GM yourself)

[Invictys]

It was an easy choice for me as a GM to spring for the Ultimate license for $149.

Even with just 4 players and a DM that's $200 worth of Full licenses if the whole group sticks together, losing someone means another $40. Yes the load is spread around but it didn't make sense to me to go that route.

For me as a long time gamer and computer gamer I am used to spending money on my hobby. As such I don't mind spending $149 on a fantastic product which will provide me with gaming enjoyment for a long time.

Add to that the fact that I can have anyone join my games without a cash outlay and I love it.

Lets face it, as a DM we have always spent the lion's share of time and money over the player, that's not something new with Fantasy Grounds. How many source books does the average player require versus the average DM? How many miniatures or battlemats or tracking/planning software do the players buy versus the DM?

I for one feel like I have gotten my $149 in value out of the Ultimate license purchase and I just started using FG a couple of months ago. :)

[JohnD]

I have an Ultimate license and I'll echo a lot of what Invictys has already said.

The up side of Ultimate is also the down side in my experience. Anyone can join. This means anyone can join and be a good, non-disruptive player. This also means anyone can join and be a bit of a **** (including simply dropping without so much as an explanation - you are disposable entertainment... how's that feel?).

My experience is that people with at least a Lite version have more skin in the game; they are more reliable for ongoing campaign style games vs. the one or two session drop-in style (i.e. PFS).

I run two regular campaigns and one infrequent one... 21 different players participate and I believe that all have at least a Lite version with many Full and several Ultimate.

As a DM you always have the greater outlay... time spent planning, creating, reading... money spent on books, modules, etc... this is no different.

All this aside, I think, if I had it to do over, I would have stuck with the Full version and left players to buy their own Lite... if you're dealing with someone who can't/won't put out $20 on an essentially never ending entertainment source (less than an afternoon at the movies), my personal experience hasn't been that positive.

Others may have had different experiences.

[Invictys]

Good points JohnD, and when it comes to running FG games I'll defer to your experience running 21 players over some good length of time.

I agree with you that FG allows you the option of requiring people to put some skin in the game through the licensing option. I have no doubt the truth of what you are saying as far as increasing the likelihood of good players coming and sticking around because they've shelled out some cash.

My assertion is simply that this problem has existed for DMs as long as RPGs have been around. Its just not easy to find a good group of players and replace ones you lose. I don't know how many tabletop games I've run/played in that experienced this same problem over and over in on-going campaign style games.

Someone shows up for one game to "check it out" then he's either a huge A-hole or comes for a few games, spends a bunch of the group's time getting caught up/rolling characters whatever and then just flakes out and never shows up again. Rinse and repeat until you find a decent player.

FG does allow you a potential partial solution through the licensing option to somewhat "pre-screen" a player to determine their commitment level but the problem itself is not a new one.

[Trenloe]

The problem is there as a whole in the hobby in general, as Invictus says.

I've been involved in games where players with full licences have just disappeared from the campaign without a word and they stay active in the forums looking for other games. We all sometimes join a game that we don't quite fit into or real - life comes along and we can no longer meet the required schedule. A quick email doesn't take long, but it still sometimes doesn't happen - but, common courtesy to your fellow players and GM is a completely separate topic!

Back on topic. Yes, hopefully someone who has paid money for FG would be less likely to do this, but there are no guarantees...

There is the flip side, some of the great community members here experienced their first FG game via a GM with an ultimate license. They may not have continued in that first campaign, but perhaps they would never have got into FG without that first free game!

[wbcreighton]

There is the flip side, some of the great community members here experienced their first FG game via a GM with a full license. They may not have continued in that first campaign, but perhaps they would never have got into FG without that first free game!

I think you meant Ultimate license. And yes that is how I got into it....

[Trenloe]

I think you meant Ultimate license. And yes that is how I got into it....
Thanks for the spot. You're an example of one of the great community members I was referring to! :-)

[damned]

i had my first game here in a demo session with one Ronnke - many thanks to you sir. i havent seen (or noticed at least) him around for some time but he used to regularly run demo sessions for newbs.
i have to concur with most of what is written here.
i bought an ultimate license to remove as many hurdles as possible for my players...
i used to regularly invite new players to games but i have reduced that significantly now because overwhelmingly they would either do a no show or disappear straight after game without any further communication.
i feel a bit bad about this because it is the community that makes the product work or not work. sadly though - far and away - people come here looking for a WoW experience and no commitment. mostly it is younger people (ok Im getting old ok) because that is what they have grown up with - no commitment, drop in and out, instant gratification and FREE.
i dont get the pickup game concept so much. i do for PFS. players will come back to you and GMs can also get their fix as players too. there is so much effort that goes into a game and its noce to have the players come back for more.
and for one more angle on this - whilst most of my players have demo licenses I think I will encourage them to buy a lite anyway - because that money goes back in to supporting SmiteWorks and the future development of the platform.

[Leonal]

Originally my group of friends and I bought a collection of full licenses, just in case someone wanted to GM (lite to full upgrade was not available at the time).

Later with a different group they all got lite licenses, as I was the only one who would GM.

I don't post my games though, as I only find time to play with the above two groups, and the latter group not so much.

[Callum]

I purchased a full licence in a bundle with a set of lite licences for my gaming group, so that we could start playing D&D again. I only play with that group, so I don't have any need for an ultimate licence; similarly, my players aren't intending to run a game. They also never come onto these boards - I suspect you won't get many people picking "Players" in this poll.

[S Ferguson]

i had my first game here in a demo session with one Ronnke - many thanks to you sir. i havent seen (or noticed at least) him around for some time but he used to regularly run demo sessions for newbs.
i have to concur with most of what is written here.
i bought an ultimate license to remove as many hurdles as possible for my players...
i used to regularly invite new players to games but i have reduced that significantly now because overwhelmingly they would either do a no show or disappear straight after game without any further communication.
i feel a bit bad about this because it is the community that makes the product work or not work. sadly though - far and away - people come here looking for a WoW experience and no commitment. mostly it is younger people (ok Im getting old ok) because that is what they have grown up with - no commitment, drop in and out, instant gratification and FREE.
i dont get the pickup game concept so much. i do for PFS. players will come back to you and GMs can also get their fix as players too. there is so much effort that goes into a game and its noce to have the players come back for more.
and for one more angle on this - whilst most of my players have demo licenses I think I will encourage them to buy a lite anyway - because that money goes back in to supporting SmiteWorks and the future development of the platform.

I fully agree here with pumping money back into the gaming system (and its development) that gives us so much joy. Being involved in roleplaying since it's ups and downs from '78 on (I'm feeling like JohnD now), I've found that players who put forth an investment are the ones most likely to play, just like in RL. I've rarely had a F2F game where my players didn't have at least the Players Guide for any particular system, and I find the same on VTT games. That was the original factor in purchasing a Full license rather than an Ultimate license. Player's would make an investment, and usually follow through on the gaming aspect. To that extent, it's worked.

EDIT: And I enjoy the UN Observer Effect so player's with lite licenses can sign in and watch the play, impervious to harm, to body (can't guarantee the mind, mind you).

And I'm very glad I'm not the only one who doesn't comprehend a "pick-up" game outside of the Pathfinder Society.:D

Regards,
SF

[Blackfoot]

I purchased a full licence in a bundle with a set of lite licences for my gaming group, so that we could start playing D&D again. I only play with that group, so I don't have any need for an ultimate licence; similarly, my players aren't intending to run a game. They also never come onto these boards - I suspect you won't get many people picking "Players" in this poll.
The advantage of this setup is that any of those players could upgrade to a Full License and run a game for the rest of the group. If one player has an ultimate, then he's the only one who can run games in the group... unless he also buys an ultimate. Plus this arrangement has the added benefit of spreading the expense of gaming out amongst the group a bit.

I was in the same game as wbcreighton starting off so I can certainly agree that 'ultimate' games are a great way to experience FG for the first time and discover what a great venue it is for gaming.

Callum is probably right that most 'Lite' players don't frequent the boards nearly as much as the Full or Ultimate folks.

[S Ferguson]

Snipped.
Callum is probably right that most 'Lite' players don't frequent the boards nearly as much as the Full or Ultimate folks.

I wholeheartedly agree. That or they troll the forums, only popping in occasionally.

[David32780]

I am new to Fantasy Grounds and have liked what I have seen so far. I purchased the Full license with all of the Savage World Hellfrost stuff to run a campaign later down the line. The only bad thing is there are no campaigns going on to test out FG. I thought the forums were going to be a little more active then what they are. Sorry, thats just what I have noticed since joining FG about a week ago.

Now I purchased the Castle and Crusades plug in and am really liking what I see there. It reminds me so much of Basic D&D and some of AD&D 1st edition. These are the D&D games I grew up on and played many years.

Ill just keep checking the forums and seeing what is going on.

[S Ferguson]

I am new to Fantasy Grounds and have liked what I have seen so far. I purchased the Full license with all of the Savage World Hellfrost stuff to run a campaign later down the line. The only bad thing is there are no campaigns going on to test out FG. I thought the forums were going to be a little more active then what they are. Sorry, thats just what I have noticed since joining FG about a week ago.

Now I purchased the Castle and Crusades plug in and am really liking what I see there. It reminds me so much of Basic D&D and some of AD&D 1st edition. These are the D&D games I grew up on and played many years.

Ill just keep checking the forums and seeing what is going on.

Castles & Crusades and the other forums, only generate quick and efficient responses if there are questions to be asked. If you like forum activity, then post!;)

[Griogre]

I personally have a full license. But I can tell you that of the groups I'm in I'd say most of the player's have lite licenses so say 9 of 15 or so. I know the players don't come to this site unless they are looking for a game.

[Callum]

The advantage of this setup is that any of those players could upgrade to a Full License and run a game for the rest of the group. If one player has an ultimate, then he's the only one who can run games in the group... unless he also buys an ultimate. Plus this arrangement has the added benefit of spreading the expense of gaming out amongst the group a bit.
Yes, absolutely - a couple of my players have talked about upgrading their licence and running a game. It hasn't come to pass yet, but I still hope that one day it will! And, likewise, we spread the licensing cost around our group.

[Blackfoot]

I think this poll is probably somewhat misleading. While it likely represents the Forum Users it probably doesn't represent FG Users as a whole.

[S Ferguson]

I think this poll is probably somewhat misleading. While it likely represents the Forum Users it probably doesn't represent FG Users as a whole.

I think polls in general are misleading. "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics...."

Cheers,
SF

[Invictys]

I think this poll is probably somewhat misleading. While it likely represents the Forum Users it probably doesn't represent FG Users as a whole.

The sampling error rates make the poll almost worthless from a statistical standpoint (approximately 14% sampling error rate) because of the small sample size (48 respondents) relative to the population of license holders (10,000+ last I heard). We would need about 350 respondents to have sufficient sample size for a 95% confidence if the sample were random.

Combine the small sample size with the sampling error caused by a non-random sample (forum users only as opposed to all FG users) and I'm willing to bet the margin of error is +/- 50% or more.

Even so, polls like this are always interesting and make for good conversation on forums :D

Edit: actually I think that 10,000 license holders was all users not just ultimate or full so the population may be smaller than that and hence need a smaller number or respondents... But the principle remains the same :)

[bennis1980]

I never could stay awake during stats class.

I do like pretty polls with colourful charts and graphs. A lot more accurate in my opinion than mathematical science! :D

[ddavison]

These are the numbers I see registered (all time):

12,803 - SWK01 - Full License
12,329 - SWK02 - Lite License (Player Only)
506 - SWK02U - Lite to Full License Upgrade
1,062 - SWK03 - Ultimate License (Players connect and Play for Fre...
14 -SWK03-UPGRADE - Full to Ultimate License Upgrade


The last row is a bit off though since that only accounts for upgrades since we started officially labeling those differently than the SWK03. If I had to guess, I would probably say that 25% or more of our Ultimate licenses came through upgrades.

[Invictys]

Thanks for the actual population data ddavison!

This illustrates the statistical worthlessness of polls like this. According to our poll here we had 50 respondents with either full or ultimate licenses. The proportion was 40% ultimate and 60% full.

The population sample though has 14385 full and ultimate license holders (including upgrades) which is a proportion of 7.48% ultimate and 92.58% full.

Our poll was so far off as to be worthless, as most polls and surveys are in fact. Interesting conversation but worthless. :)

[ddavison]

The poll could be considered "Licenses by the most active forum users" or something like that. The Full and Lite licenses have been around for much longer than the Ultimate. If I ever get around to compiling my annual report, I'll probably pull the 2012 and 2013 stats separate from the lifetime stats.

[bennis1980]

Also, I reckon the more active a member, the more likely they'll be convinced to take the leap and purchase Ultimate. Hence the high proportion in the poll.

[S Ferguson]

Also, I reckon the more active a member, the more likely they'll be convinced to take the leap and purchase Ultimate. Hence the high proportion in the poll.

Then of course, there's lies, damn lies, and statistics. :D

[Invictys]

Then of course, there's lies, damn lies, and statistics. :D

Haha indeed! Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable. :D

[Blacky]

I notice a lot of games do not get off the ground if the game master does not have an ultimate license. Do most people here have a license, or do they look around for ultimate only gm's?
I've seen this from time to time. To be blunt, I usually tell these people to butt off. A GM is usually putting twice the hours a player does, buy all the books, the softwares around, and they can't spend 2 or 3 movie theater tickets to play on this but other games and virtual tables?

Yeah right.

Frankly, a player that has this type of attitude, I don't want to play with it (as a co-player or as GM). I admit I'm lazy myself, but I expect players to invest themselves in a game, above just showing up.

[RevenantBob]

I'm a GM and coder, so I got ultimate :) I hate limitations.

[S Ferguson]

The only limitation you're overcoming is that of the unlicensed. Other than that you get the same flexibility as Full. Don't forget Ultimate Licenses leads to... Ultimate corruption.:)

[DarkStar]

I have Full and a Player's license. The latter has never been used - we purchased a 4+1 pack a few years ago and we never had the need for the last Player's license key.

[XpressO]

Ultimate license here. But have mainly ran games to my IRL friends (we live far apart, so FG is needed). I haven't really got the balls yet to run an English game :o

[AstaSyneri]

I am on the fence to buying the Ultimate license. Job and family led to my gamers be spread far and this would allow me to occasionally host sessions with them (are a new group of online friends that I usually play other coop games with - I am sure many of you know the drill). Ultimate + Savage Worlds isn't cheap, but I really like the fact that it's a one-time-only purchase. I have a few years to make good on it ;-).

[Blackfoot]

I am on the fence to buying the Ultimate license. Job and family led to my gamers be spread far and this would allow me to occasionally host sessions with them (are a new group of online friends that I usually play other coop games with - I am sure many of you know the drill). Ultimate + Savage Worlds isn't cheap, but I really like the fact that it's a one-time-only purchase. I have a few years to make good on it ;-).My advice is that you will make good on your investment... of course... if you think you aren't the only one of your group who will be running... look at one of the package options. A Full License works out well and doesn't require one guy to bear the brunt of the expense. All of your players can afford a Lite license... they cost about as much as a good but not expensive dinner... then if someone wants to upgrade to a full later on so you have a second GM.. it's cheap for them to do that too. If you are the only one with an Ultimate... the next GM to step up will need to buy an Ultimate too.

[VenomousFiligree]

I first bought 2 full and 2 player as a package I have since purchased an Ultimate. I used to run loads of demos for noobs, however i've been absent for a while.

Common courtesy within VTs is often lacking and is one of my pet peeves :(

[atomtan]

I have a full license because I just couldn't think of a way to justify the cost of Ultimate to my wife.

Every week I make a trip to the game shop to pick up comic books and a random book that catches my eye. I just had to skip buying a book one week to fit FG into my gaming budget with the Full license. I would have to go about a month without getting a book fix with Ultimate.

[Macgreine]

The licensing structure makes no sense to me as I have made clear in other posts. I would love to introduce new players to FG because its an outstanding piece of software but the cost cant be justified by any stretch of the imagination. Therefore all my players are required to have at least a lite license. Going forward I hope the developers ( which could actually be a bunch of monkeys in a dark room gulping banana rum and crying out for paid vacations) will introduce a floating license or trial period so that GM's can introduce people to RPG's and FG2 without incurring the unreasonable cost. I mean honestly why should GM's shoulder the financial burden to introduce new comers who have yet to purchase a license?

Mac

[S Ferguson]

@atomtan: The thought of that scares the begeebees out of me. A month without a book would kill me.

Cheers,
SF

[Andraax]

@atomtan: The thought of that scares the begeebees out of me. A month without a book would kill me.

There was this recent invention where you get books without paying for them. They're called "libraries".

[damned]

where you get books without paying for them. They're called "libraries".

you still pay for libraries but you pay for them as a community rather than directly.... not much in this world is truly free :)

[Andraax]

you still pay for libraries but you pay for them as a community rather than directly.... not much in this world is truly free :)

Unless it's a privately funded library.

[JohnD]

I don't know what it is about this discussion, but every time I look there is an apparent new post, and when I check it's always the same one from Andraax back on Dec 22.

[Andraax]

People are voting in the poll.

[JohnD]

People are voting in the poll.

Well crap... learn something new every day. :)

Thought I was going crazy there for a while... literally and figuratively as it turns out. :hurt:

[Griogre]

Yeah this poll really should be closed, its another one that's been open 6 months, and its not informative except to show GM are the ones who use these boards. Doug's gives some stats a few pages back which show the actual break down of types of licenses: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?18902-Do-people-have-player-licenses&p=151772&viewfull=1#post151772