Problem with the init tracker!

[daddystabz]

I am trying to prep a session of War of the Dead I will be running this Friday and there is a bug with the init tool.

The encounter includes 3 soldiers (NPCs) and 40 zombies (8 sprinters & 32 shamblers). Eventually I'll have to add the PCs as well.

However, the tracker seems to only show the shamblers up to like # 12 in the order even though there are like 32 of them. The order continues in the chat window as I click through them but it will not let me see any entry past # 12.

How the heck am I going to get around this for my adventure?

[phantomwhale]

Haven't seen this before, but then again, don't think I've run a group that big before !

My usual approach when running large "mobs" of creatures has been to just use a single combat tracker entry (e.g. "zombies") and then put out a whole bunch of tokens. Admittedly, this has the downside that PCs cannot "target" them by clicking on the map. But when it comes to moving, I don't click through each one, I just move them all up.

For shaken, I stick with the classic "rotate the token 90 degrees" trick; this is in line with the Pinnacle principle of "standing, down or off the table" to keep things Fast, Fun and all that (tm).

I've even gone for the approach (for groups of 20+) of using paint / photoshop to make "mob" tokens (e.g. 4-5 regular tokens next to each other) and then used 3-4 grouped combat tracker entries, each of which has a "mob" token. Then player's CAN target the "mob", and I can keep track of how many remain by using the wound tracker as a count of how many are left or how many have been killed. Downside here is you can't split the mob, but for battles of this size, this hasn't been a problem so far.

Final suggestion is to break up the zombies into groups of 8. Then you have 4-5 groups, each of which has 8 enemies. This would leave you with full targeting functionality and the ability to move all 40 tokens independently. It would involve 5 different initiative cards for each of your zombies, but that might not be a bad thing ? (Plus, from memory, in WotD they will all end up with about the same initiative anyway, due to the Slow ability)

I'll make a note to see why this 12 entry limit exists within the combat tracker; for now, I suggest you'll need to work around it, using a combination of the above ideas. To be honest, even with support added for a 40 entry long combat group, I wonder if that would be the best way of managing such large groups of enemies during the game ?

Cheers,
-PW-

[daddystabz]

The best workaround I've found so far is to pair them in smaller groupings of 10 each.

[phantomwhale]

I've always favoured that approach in games (both at the table and online) anyhow - It would be crazy to deal out 40 initiative cards to 40 individual goons, but equally having all 40 move in one big "clump" felt a little odd too.

Nonetheless, there is no good reason why the initiative tracker should limit group sizes if you want them that big, so I'll see if I can patch it up for v3.4 ! Hope the workaround works for you in the meantime. And I've love a screenshot of that mass battle in action :)

[daddystabz]

Well the way I was going to handle it initially was to have one big group of 40 that act on the same initiative.

[phantomwhale]

Well the way I was going to handle it initially was to have one big group of 40 that act on the same initiative.

Understood - like I say, my preference has always been to break huge hordes up into 3-4 groups - creates a slightly more fluid feel to the battle, rather than the entire horde move at the same time.

But that is just my preference and opinion, so as I also mentioned, I will try and remove this limitation for the ruleset in version 3.4 for those that prefer a single initiative draw for large groups.

[daddystabz]

Thank you very much for your help. I appreciate your assistance.

[S Ferguson]

I've always favoured that approach in games (both at the table and online) anyhow - It would be crazy to deal out 40 initiative cards to 40 individual goons, but equally having all 40 move in one big "clump" felt a little odd too.

Nonetheless, there is no good reason why the initiative tracker should limit group sizes if you want them that big, so I'll see if I can patch it up for v3.4 ! Hope the workaround works for you in the meantime. And I've love a screenshot of that mass battle in action :)

At this rate you're going to have to have a gamma-release of the beta to test things in the beta.... Oh, man I just confused myself (however the ability to split large numbers into "initiative parties" would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
SF

[phantomwhale]

To split large numbers into "initiative parties", just put them into 3-4 different groups - you can do that NOW.

The only fix I'm planning to add to the beta-gamma-double-alpha is to let the grouped combatants box go bigger than 12 entries, so the extra ones aren't hidden. Still wouldn't recommend doing it though ;)

[S Ferguson]

To split large numbers into "initiative parties", just put them into 3-4 different groups - you can do that NOW.

The only fix I'm planning to add to the beta-gamma-double-alpha is to let the grouped combatants box go bigger than 12 entries, so the extra ones aren't hidden. Still wouldn't recommend doing it though ;)

I really don't think there's enough screen space on the CT for it. And I know you can split them up into groups now. It wasn't a feature request, because we *all* know where those go. :)

I also wouldn't recommend double alpha-ing because that gets complicated. Try the beta-gamma-alpha-omicron instead.

[tauriih]

I noticed this issue too, but I agree that PW's suggested workarounds make for more efficient management in any case. I won't bumble into that problem again.

[phantomwhale]

Turns out window controls must have a default maximum size - I changed the maximum size on the combatantgroup window to 10000 (pixels) and added 150 Dire Wolves into it and BOOM, they were all there, in a giant unweildy scrollable list.

So yeah, 3.4 will allow you to make your groups as big as you like - but that still doesn't necessarily mean you should :)

[daddystabz]

Would you please mind telling us how you did this?


Turns out window controls must have a default maximum size - I changed the maximum size on the combatantgroup window to 10000 (pixels) and added 150 Dire Wolves into it and BOOM, they were all there, in a giant unweildy scrollable list.

So yeah, 3.4 will allow you to make your groups as big as you like - but that still doesn't necessarily mean you should :)

[phantomwhale]

Ah sure, if your up for a spot of ruleset hacking, find the following:



<windowclass name="combattracker_group">
<frame>ctentrybox</frame>
<sizelimits>
<minimum>
<height>65</height>
</minimum>
</sizelimits>


and add in...



<windowclass name="combattracker_group">
<frame>ctentrybox</frame>
<sizelimits>
<minimum>
<height>65</height>
</minimum>
<maximum>
<height>10000</height>
</maximum>
</sizelimits>


That should give you (almost) infinite sized groups !

[Moon Wizard]

Good thing I'm removing the default maximum window sizes for v3.0. ;)

JPG

[S Ferguson]

Ah sure, if your up for a spot of ruleset hacking, find the following:



<windowclass name="combattracker_group">
<frame>ctentrybox</frame>
<sizelimits>
<minimum>
<height>65</height>
</minimum>
</sizelimits>


and add in...



<windowclass name="combattracker_group">
<frame>ctentrybox</frame>
<sizelimits>
<minimum>
<height>65</height>
</minimum>
<maximum>
<height>10000</height>
</maximum>
</sizelimits>


That should give you (almost) infinite sized groups !

Only 10000? that's hardly infinite. I want 35000 Romans vs. 200000 Zombies! (will it actually accept a number this high?)

[phantomwhale]

Only 10000? that's hardly infinite. I want 35000 Romans vs. 200000 Zombies! (will it actually accept a number this high?)

Tell you what, you try that and let me know :)

(I'd put reasonable money to say you'll crash the application !)

[Doswelk]

Only 10000? that's hardly infinite. I want 35000 Romans vs. 200000 Zombies! (will it actually accept a number this high?)
That's what the Mass battle rules are for :p

Tell you what, you try that and let me know :)

(I'd put reasonable money to say you'll crash the application !)
I will deal with him this evening PW... :D

[S Ferguson]

Oh, will you now....

[S Ferguson]

Tell you what, you try that and let me know :)

(I'd put reasonable money to say you'll crash the application !)

Well it accepts the number. I'm going to try rhe 300000 zombies next.;)

[scionofnyarlathotep]

Oh, will you now....

I think the 'oh, look there's another vampire for Augustus to fight' could be considered you as dealt with.

[S Ferguson]

Well I've survived them all (so far. And with their weird science devices acting the way they do I should be in the clear. Although I might have to have my weapons reissued.:)