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Desmodaeus
April 18th, 2013, 01:21
I just purchased the ruleset, After Winter's Dark and Assault on Blacktooth Ridge. So far I love this system and wonder how I did not hear of it sooner. Finally back to some real role-playing with a simple system so things don't get bogged down. I must say that I am rather disappointed in the lack of options within this ruleset when compared to the 4E and 3.5E rulesets. To read these forums it seems there is little hope of future changes/support for this system which is depressing. :(

Trenloe
April 18th, 2013, 01:26
To read these forums it seems there is little hope of future changes/support for this system which is depressing. :(
I don't who where you get that from - dr_venture is slowly working on updates and there is a wish list. See this thread: http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17494

Desmodaeus
April 18th, 2013, 01:39
Excellent then, thanks for the link. Just noticed several posts talking about how the forum for C&C was dead/dying and so on. I would be glad to see it flourish as it's a great system.

dr_venture
April 19th, 2013, 02:54
Hey, I'm the guy - mea culpa. I'm getting some really crucial help from Dakadin (the guy/one of the guys who does the Rolemaster ruleset) on some of the most hairy bugs right now. We're still a little ways from launching, but at least we're making some clear progress now.

The new version will have some crucial new functionality, but it's hard to compete with the likes of 3.5 and 4e, arguably the most feature-rich rulesets for FG, so dial in your expectations as appropriate. In the mean time, please go to the link in my signature to suggest or vote on new features for the next version.

In the meantime, here's a link to a recent screenshot of the current beta ruleset to give you hope for continued dev work - I'm using it for my Greyhawk game regularly:

http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4065&d=1364958076

S Ferguson
April 19th, 2013, 03:10
Oooh. Pretty. So when is the launch slated for, roughly? Gosh I love new versions.

dr_venture
April 19th, 2013, 03:59
Jeez - I'd be crazy to even speculate, as I'm not only not sure how long it takes to fix some of these bugs, but also my available time varies from week to week. It won't be in the near future... maybe over the summer? Maybe the fall? I really, honestly don't know. As soon as I can is about as specific as I can be right now.

S Ferguson
April 19th, 2013, 04:01
Then it will come out when it's good and darn ready to come out! :D

dr_venture
April 19th, 2013, 04:47
That is true - God knows *I'm* good and ready to release it, but *it* has other ideas right now.

damned
April 24th, 2013, 15:22
im lucky enough to be play testing this beta version and it already has some shiny new features and the slick new skin. keep up the good work doc.

Laconiclament
April 25th, 2013, 01:06
Also new to C&C, over here, with a question of my own.

Is the 4th printing of the Players' Handbook (which appears to be the printing our FG ruleset is based off of) the most current? Are more changes and reprints likely?

S Ferguson
April 25th, 2013, 01:17
Also new to C&C, over here, with a question of my own.

Is the 4th printing of the Players' Handbook (which appears to be the printing our FG ruleset is based off of) the most current? Are more changes and reprints likely?

The fourth printing is the current edition which is in a stable state. And welcome to the club!

dr_venture
April 25th, 2013, 02:33
Actually, I have the 5th printing, dated 2012, which is where I get the new logo for the C&C beta ruleset. They do seem to reprint the rulebooks occasionally, but the changes that I'm aware of are for the right reason: clarifying and simplifying rules, as opposed to just selling more books. There are only a handful of differences that the ruleset dev group was able to identify from the 4th printing. One was just a simplification of the encumbrance rules (which I'm rolling into the new ruleset).

JohnD
April 25th, 2013, 04:44
Actually, I have the 5th printing, dated 2012, which is where I get the new logo for the C&C beta ruleset. They do seem to reprint the rulebooks occasionally, but the changes that I'm aware of are for the right reason: clarifying and simplifying rules, as opposed to just selling more books. There are only a handful of differences that the ruleset dev group was able to identify from the 4th printing. One was just a simplification of the encumbrance rules (which I'm rolling into the new ruleset).
What a novel concept.

damned
April 25th, 2013, 10:14
ive got phb 2, 3, 4 and 5... no real need - just like to collect stuff...
there are many *minor* differences between editions. very little to upset anyones apple-cart and as doc says - they are not different editions they are really just revisions. the trolls will tell you that too - they wont recommend you buy 5 of you've already got 4.

Laconiclament
April 25th, 2013, 19:40
Having first been exposed to RPGs through AD&D at age 15 and firmly entrenching myself in 3.5 for the majority of my RPing "career", I only have one thing to say at this time...

I'm really glad I've been put onto C&C!

I know I've got more to learn about it, but it's not nearly as foreign as some other game systems are and I've arranged the perfect opportunity TO learn more of it. Sooo....yeah! Color me one happy gamer!

Answulf
April 26th, 2013, 03:03
I read on the Troll Lords forums that they said there is no need to buy the 5th Ed if you have the 4th. (A publisher telling you that you don't need the new edition is another novel concept.) one thing I hear over and over again is what a bunch of good guys they are.

dr_venture
April 26th, 2013, 04:27
Honestly, that's one thing I *loathed* about D&D... just really resented the idea that everything you were buying always just about had one foot in the grave as a product, ensuring you'd need to buy more and more books. Meanwhile, the game was always changing but it was arguably not improving. Troll Lords is a big breath of fresh air after D&D.

damned
April 26th, 2013, 07:23
i think what wizards are doing now in re-releasing older material in pdf format is a great move.

hawkwind
April 26th, 2013, 13:44
the new hard backs aren't bad either, i have a very nice copy of Dungeons of Dread with all the S series modules in it.

S Ferguson
April 26th, 2013, 16:08
Honestly, that's one thing I *loathed* about D&D... just really resented the idea that everything you were buying always just about had one foot in the grave as a product, ensuring you'd need to buy more and more books. Meanwhile, the game was always changing but it was arguably not improving. Troll Lords is a big breath of fresh air after D&D.

Amen to that, brother. The Trolls seem to be one of the few companies that are getting it right. It reaffirms my faith in people learning from others' "blunders."

Cheers,
SF

Isamill
May 31st, 2013, 22:03
C&C is definately by far the best, it brings roleplaying into perspective where you don't need to be a rules junky to be able to do anything, the characters aren't over powerful and need to think how can I do something with out looking up 15 books and then arguing with the DM who just happens to not have that book or version to do the simplest task.
its a game where you need the minimum core characters to survive and each character has simple rules and it is up to you to roleplay how that character acts or does things - not a complex set of rules

S Ferguson
June 1st, 2013, 02:28
C&C is definately by far the best, it brings roleplaying into perspective where you don't need to be a rules junky to be able to do anything, the characters aren't over powerful and need to think how can I do something with out looking up 15 books and then arguing with the DM who just happens to not have that book or version to do the simplest task.
its a game where you need the minimum core characters to survive and each character has simple rules and it is up to you to roleplay how that character acts or does things - not a complex set of rules

That's the beauty of the SIEGE Engine. Clean play, maximum fun. I still have the sweet spot for the 3-5 player games, but I've been looking at some Labyrinth Lord one-on-one rules that would be spot on for one-offs. That's the other beauty of the game. It's easy to adapt any of the "old school" RPGs to the system.

Cheers,
SF

sakmerlin37
June 18th, 2013, 19:11
I just purchased the gamut of C&C for FGII and will be purchasing the PDF (if the company releases them) counterparts soon, based on reading this thread and a couple of others.

I'm new to Troll Lord games and C&C and am looking forward to introducing my players to a good fantasy game. I've been reading through the material and love what I see.

I was horrifically put off by D&D at the end of TSR's tenure and the WoTC business model: you need to possess a small fortune to maintain a good library for their games.

I prefer having a simple core ruleset and then purchasing games/modules to play, rather than expansion after expansion after expansion, ad nauseum, of that ruleset.

S Ferguson
June 18th, 2013, 19:19
I just purchased the gamut of C&C for FGII and will be purchasing the PDF (if the company releases them) counterparts soon, based on reading this thread and a couple of others.

I'm new to Troll Lord games and C&C and am looking forward to introducing my players to a good fantasy game. I've been reading through the material and love what I see.

I was horrifically put off by D&D at the end of TSR's tenure and the WoTC business model: you need to possess a small fortune to maintain a good library for their games.

I prefer having a simple core ruleset and then purchasing games/modules to play, rather than expansion after expansion after expansion, ad nauseum, of that ruleset.

I totally agree. Post TSR D&D was an unbearable nightmare of a product. And a small fortune to boot (which put me off buying 4e period). C&C is a great venue for high and low fantasy, and since it's not "world-specific," and since the SIEGE engine is so easy to apply, it's no wonder Gygax endorsed the product! And additions to the system are a breeze to add. A simple system that further editions just improve on, as opposed to making the system more complex - and in the broad scope of things confined. C&C definitely is the premiere system for fantasy gaming. And the PDFs I believe are available on RPGNow.com. There is also a link to the Crusader Companion, a free PDF that give more options, classes, rules for multi-classing and "half-classing" and much, much more. If you look under the classic D&D forum, there should be a link by Dr_Venture regarding a "free generic supplement" click on the link and you'll have access to it.

And welcome to the community! Feel free to post any questions you might have.

Cheers,
SF

dr_venture
June 18th, 2013, 19:32
What Señior Ferguson said... I think you've found a good game for what you're looking for :)

Laconiclament
June 19th, 2013, 00:53
As someone who was introduced to tabletop RPGs with 2nd edition at a young age and then went on to be a diehard collector (naive sucker)of 3.5, I too have to say that C&C is the best system for my needs. It's the best marriage of the two systems I've seen!

The rest has already been said by the others, so I'll leave it at that. ;)

damned
June 19th, 2013, 01:42
C&C definitely is the premiere system for fantasy gaming.

Such a big bold statement - but hey - i can live with it :)
Periodically TLG send out a discount code for PDFs thru RpgNow/DriveThru. I will post the next one here. Usually 20-30% off - sometimes Ive seen 50% off...

S Ferguson
June 19th, 2013, 01:43
Such a big bold statement - but hey - i can live with it :)
Periodically TLG send out a discount code for PDFs thru RpgNow/DriveThru. I will post the next one here. Usually 20-30% off - sometimes Ive seen 50% off...

Big and Bold. That's C&C. and the posts will be much appreciated.

Cheers,
SF

damned
June 19th, 2013, 01:44
2 weeks ago they had a 50% off sale - i just checked codes/links have definitely expired.

S Ferguson
June 19th, 2013, 02:00
2 weeks ago they had a 50% off sale - i just checked codes/links have definitely expired.

Yes, I cashed in on that one. But feel free to send any others that come your way!:)
Discounted stuff. Can't beat it.

Cheers,
SF

Quaksalber
June 20th, 2013, 21:04
Hi all,
I also purchased the ruleset and a couple of adventures from the store for I agree to all statements above. Lean, fast and from what I read in this and other threads it seems to definitly convey an old school RPG feeling when playing :)

I encounterd one problem so far with FGII. When my friends connected to my session with free clients ( I have an ultimate license) everything seemed to work fine accept for the modules I chose the players to see (players handbook) were not accessible for them. They could see the greyed icon their modules folder but had nothing shown in there library.

I tested the same with a different ruleset (SW) and all worked fine.

Any ideas what I can do to have players access the modules?

Many thanks in advance!

dr_venture
June 20th, 2013, 21:24
That's the way the C&C ruleset works: all of the modules that are part of the C&C ruleset are only available to people who have purchased the ruleset... so you can't share the PHB with players unless they have also bought the ruleset. You can still run games, but it's definitely less convenient, which is an idea whose merits have been discussed up here before.

Now at first thought that can sound kinda uncool compared to other FG rulesets, but it's also important to consider that the C&C ruleset is only $10, a fair bit less than many other rulesets (half as much as some modules), and is also a little less than the price of a printed PHB that most players would purchase if you were playing around a table in a regular old P&P game. It's a pretty good price to own all the contents of the PHB & Monsters and Treasure books, and all the automation of those rules in FG. Also, once a player buys the ruleset, then they themselves can then run their own games if they choose.

My personal belief (I have no special knowledge on the subject) is that Troll Lords is hoping to spread the cost out among games, while at the same time getting those games a bit more invested in the game itself. Rather than just joining a game for free and leaving, many players will now own the rules and consider running their own games. I think this approach can build the C&C community if it works - YMMV, of course.

Quaksalber
June 20th, 2013, 21:51
Mmany thanks for the fast response :)

I can understand the point you make but this results in every player to own at least a full license of FGII right? So taking this into account will not deliver any extra money to Troll Lords but only FG (which is not a bad thing at all ;)) so I doubt that this strategy will work out. I personally would rather spend 20$ or 25$ for the ruleset and make it easier for players with no FGII license to get in the ring as well.

But as you also mentioned it's no use in arguing but taking it as it is and making the best out of it .... :D

dr_venture
June 20th, 2013, 22:05
I don't believe you have to own a full license of FG in order to use the ruleset as a player (though someone more knowledgeable than I should respond here - that's a good question). You would have to buy a FG license to act as a GM though.

Personally, I do agree with you: I'd rather pay $25 and be able to share the modules with whoever I choose. I can't hold any grudge against Troll Lords, though, as they haven't been at all greedy about publishing endless rulebooks and additions to milk their customers. Actually, on the contrary, someone posted up here at some point that they contacted Troll Lord about the need to buy the latest version of the PHB, and TL told them the minor changes weren't worth the price of the new book... a refreshing change since (IMHO) AD&D versions 2 and above.

Still... I hear ya.

dr_venture
June 20th, 2013, 22:09
I should clarify that the person I referenced that had contacted TL about the new PHB had bought the previous version, and was wondering in they needed to upgrade from 4th printing to 5th - TL was like, "Nah, don't bother." Pretty cool.

damned
June 21st, 2013, 02:01
You can buy the ruleset and use with only a LITE and I think even with a DEMO license.
For me it would be much simpler if I could buy a CK license and be done with it - but really - why is it the CK has to do all the work and spend all the money...? On that front - damn you players - go buy a license.
Or better yet - wait till DrV is ready to release the new v3 rule-set and then buy it!

S Ferguson
June 21st, 2013, 02:13
You can buy the ruleset and use with only a LITE and I think even with a DEMO license.
For me it would be much simpler if I could buy a CK license and be done with it - but really - why is it the CK has to do all the work and spend all the money...? On that front - damn you players - go buy a license.
Or better yet - wait till DrV is ready to release the new v3 rule-set and then buy it!

We CK's generally do it because we're a nice bunch.:)

Cheers,
SF

damned
June 21st, 2013, 02:19
so why do I always seem intent on knocking the players down?

S Ferguson
June 21st, 2013, 02:22
so why do I always seem intent on knocking the players down?

Sit down on the couch. Now tell me anout your childhood. Suppressed anger issues stemming from role players not buying the product.....:D