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dr_venture
April 7th, 2013, 06:21
Cuz apparently I'm a glutton for punishment, I've started a list for C&C users to propose ruleset feature ideas and vote on their prioritization. This is the same kind of list that Moonwiz is using for the FG app itself, so many of y'all already know the drill: vote on the features listed on the page, and propose new ones. Wash rinse repeat.

I can't promise I'll do them... or will even be able to do them... but I do care what y'all think is important and am interested in any ideas you might come up with. I've seeded the list with some of the ideas that I'd like to add myself, and a few items that are already being punted out of the current version in development in an effort to get something out to y'all sooner rather than later.

C&C is not dead! Swing by and make yourself heard... peace out.

JohnD
April 7th, 2013, 07:32
Voted Did I.

http://metamorphitness.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/master-yoda.jpg

dr_venture
April 7th, 2013, 08:11
Yeah, but Yoda only had to master lifting spaceships with his mind, he never had to debug a partially finished ruleset! One simple bug I fixed today took about 3 hours of stumbling around in the code looking for where Effect nodes are actually created in the CT, and once found, 5 minutes to fix. So in Yoda terms, that was 175 minutes of "try" and only 5 minutes of "do"... "do not" seems only marginally less productive, if just as time consuming! :D

Thanks for chiming in on the list.

damned
April 7th, 2013, 14:03
Ive added a couple of votes and comments...
Long Live C&C!

S Ferguson
April 7th, 2013, 16:55
I have a generic Calendar Extension that will run under C&C, so you can take that off the immediate list. I just have to iron out some client-server bugs and it should be a release in about two weeks. And 1/2 a day to blend the icon into the current ones on the screen (gosh I like that screen). I could also build an extension for weather effects into it, if the demand is there.

Cheers.
SF

dr_venture
April 7th, 2013, 19:40
I'm interested to see what you put together, SF. Is the calendar tied to an event log of sorts like the 3.5 one is? I want to be able to make notes about upcoming events, weather conditions, when somebody is going to show up, etc. Included weather effects gets 2 thumbs up from me... whatever that is, exactly :)

S Ferguson
April 7th, 2013, 19:53
I'm interested to see what you put together, SF. Is the calendar tied to an event log of sorts like the 3.5 one is? I want to be able to make notes about upcoming events, weather conditions, when somebody is going to show up, etc. Included weather effects gets 2 thumbs up from me... whatever that is, exactly :)

Yep it's the full calendar with entry logs and if you *really* want to I can generate a specific calendar for a milleau. it works with all the 4e calendars (or 3.5e it really doesn't make a difference) but the basic one is the Gregorian calendar.

And I can provide a weather attachment since it got two thumbs up (that might take a little longer).

It is working fine on the Host side, but is choking on the players side but I should have some time this week (and mabye the next) to fix it up for release.

dr_venture
April 7th, 2013, 20:35
That sounds fantastic, and a great idea for FG in general. Personally, the Gregorian calendar is fine with me - there is a Greyhawk calendar, but I don't use it for a couple of reasons.

What would the Weather Attachment be? I really don't know what most other folks do - make it up on the fly or use weather generation tables, I guess. FWIW, I'm using my own weather charts based on the original Greyhawk tables that were stupidly difficult to use manually back in the day (thank you computers!), so I don't need generation charts. What would be most helpful to me would be to have a few lines of text to list weather separate from event text. A weather icon or something would be extra spiffy, but not really necessary. What were you thinking of doing?

If you're interested, I found some good weather icons on the web - my belief is that they are free to use... I'd be happy to forward them to you if you're interested & decide to do something like that.

S Ferguson
April 7th, 2013, 21:04
That sounds fantastic, and a great idea for FG in general. Personally, the Gregorian calendar is fine with me - there is a Greyhawk calendar, but I don't use it for a couple of reasons.

What would the Weather Attachment be? I really don't know what most other folks do - make it up on the fly or use weather generation tables, I guess. FWIW, I'm using my own weather charts based on the original Greyhawk tables that were stupidly difficult to use manually back in the day (thank you computers!), so I don't need generation charts. What would be most helpful to me would be to have a few lines of text to list weather separate from event text. A weather icon or something would be extra spiffy, but not really necessary. What were you thinking of doing?

If you're interested, I found some good weather icons on the web - my belief is that they are free to use... I'd be happy to forward them to you if you're interested & decide to do something like that.

Yes. When I'm finished, the calendar extension should be portable across all the "older" systems.

I was thinking (say did your Greyhawk tables come from Dragon ca. '82 - I think they were the first public rules) I was planning on doing what the Weather Channel does. give you Accurate Weather for the day that it is, and have no long-term forecast (like they ever get it right anyway). The weather would just be for that day, giving standard weather channel type stuff for that day. So yes the icons would probably be handy.

If I get around to *really* sprucing it up weather would probably be a Nonlinear Chaotic Systems approach model (boy that sounds technical :) ), I have lying around somewhere. Probably as an exercise in my Nonlinear Dynamics book or something. No wait I found it, oh goody it has the formulas. Oh well as long as it delivers the weather, the insides don't matter.

Cheers,
SF

dr_venture
April 7th, 2013, 21:18
I'm using the tables in the 1983 (I think) version of the Greyhawk "Glossography"... it's a set of weather tables and rules that are about 6 pages long. Gygax really disliked them, as they were too clumsy and time consuming for somebody to use... and before computers, he was right! It incorporates latitude and elevation, how close you are to a warm or cold sea current, etc. Way over engineered for rolling dice and using graph paper! I've got it in a local web page and automated - just trying to tweak it and get the summaries right.

S Ferguson
April 7th, 2013, 21:21
Nope these were convoluted tables that they actually had to come out with a special screen insert, printed on cardstock for. Mind you I think they spawned the weather rules to come.

dr_venture
April 7th, 2013, 21:28
BTW, everyone, I'm already glad I put the list up! The two top choices are both pretty simple to do, and options I didn't have much sense that people were jonesing for. I might be able to get them into the current release (depending on how long it takes to fix the actual bugs). I'm also surprised that the shopping cart gets no love - I figured other folks were as irritated as I at the process of buying gear for new characters... PITA. But that's a bit more involved, so I'm happy to back-burner the idea.

Be sure to add any of your own new ideas there too!

S Ferguson
April 9th, 2013, 02:34
That sounds fantastic, and a great idea for FG in general. Personally, the Gregorian calendar is fine with me - there is a Greyhawk calendar, but I don't use it for a couple of reasons.

What would the Weather Attachment be? I really don't know what most other folks do - make it up on the fly or use weather generation tables, I guess. FWIW, I'm using my own weather charts based on the original Greyhawk tables that were stupidly difficult to use manually back in the day (thank you computers!), so I don't need generation charts. What would be most helpful to me would be to have a few lines of text to list weather separate from event text. A weather icon or something would be extra spiffy, but not really necessary. What were you thinking of doing?

If you're interested, I found some good weather icons on the web - my belief is that they are free to use... I'd be happy to forward them to you if you're interested & decide to do something like that.

Actually, I think I'll take you up on the icon offer. I've got an idea for a weather generator that would be able to "predict" the weather and give you a forecast for the next X number of days, determined by the GM, without stretching credibility. But who knows how complex it will come out. I could include travelling between say, a tundra to temperate zone if the demand is there.

And speaking of the Calendar extension, are there any calendars people would like to see or are the 4E Calendars (in addition to the Gregorian) enough?

Cheers,
SF

dr_venture
April 9th, 2013, 02:55
Sounds great! PM me with an email address and I'll get those off to ya.

S Ferguson
April 11th, 2013, 20:54
As I'm aaalmost done the calendar extension. I started wondering. The original intent was to give GMs a means to plan out future events, (and set holidays and all those cheery things:) ). The player was never supposed to see any of this information, which is why the "daily output to chat" icon was made to be used. I just wanted to feel out peoples thoughts on why the players should have the right to access the calendar/log entries, even if it would spoil the plot for things to come; and do players really need to know how the calendar is made up - is a GM description good enough? I just don't want to implement it for the wrong reasons.

dr_venture
April 11th, 2013, 21:32
I'm not sure about the specifics of your calendar implementation, so I'll just answer generically. In general, I would want the ability to share or not share the calendar with the players. I'm very happy for players to see a log of what's happened in their own group (I have 2 groups in my Greyhawk game) - in fact, I'd love it if the players were motivated enough to perhaps make their own notes about the adventure as it progresses.

That said, as GM I like to use a calendar to keep track of a lot of upcoming game events, such as when some plot-oriented event will occur, when someone's healing rate will change, how long a character's disease or ailment will persist, etc. Much of that I don't want the players to be privy to.

I suppose the most comprehensive implementation would be to have a public and GM only section of each calendar entry.

JohnD
April 11th, 2013, 22:05
In my campaigns (3.5e/Pathfinder/Rolemaster) I try to update the calendar as a daily summary of what's happened to the characters in play. It doesn't always work out like that (I get behind and can't remember what happened to who and when...) but that's my intent to share with the players.

S Ferguson
April 11th, 2013, 22:23
Ok. So we have the two sides I was afraid of. The GM planning platform and the record of events platform. Well the Calendar, as it stands, in 3.5e and 4e will permit players just to view logs entered, but not make entries of their own (I always thought that was what the underused and aptly named "Notes" was for ;) ). I think then what I'll do is implement a "Private Log" feature, strictly on the GM's side that won't show up. Suggestions before it's finalized?

dr_venture
April 11th, 2013, 23:46
One thing I just realized: the 3.5 calendar has no clock... I'm using some simple FG calendar that has a clock function, and I use it *a lot*... very easy to bring up every now and then and add some time with the mouse wheel. It really makes keeping track of time (and thus the calendar - advancing the time past midnight automatically moves the date forward) very, very convenient. Any chance that your calendar will include a clock?

On the pubic/private data front, I have no better idea than to put the public comments at the top, and the GM comments at the bottom, perhaps in a pane with a slightly greyed background or something to easily identify it as GM-only. This is more or less what the Obsidian Portal web site does for separating similar info.

My first thought was to put the public/GM comments on their own tabs, but it'd be too easy to miss comments on the tab which does display by default.

S Ferguson
April 12th, 2013, 00:24
Could you send me a copy of the "basic" calendar? The clock code is in the code, it's just that it's "dead code" (tm): That which never gets called. I was thinking of reactivating it (or activating it - I'm not sure if it was implemented in the first place).

I'll give the public/private data more thought. I think I might have a solution, but I'd want to test it first.

Cheers,
SF

dr_venture
April 12th, 2013, 00:32
Just emailed it to ya.

Dakadin
April 12th, 2013, 04:14
I'll give the public/private data more thought. I think I might have a solution, but I'd want to test it first.

In the RMC ruleset there is an example you can use on the Notes tab of the character sheet. When the PC views the Notes tab it only shows the Character Notes but when the GM does there is a separate GM notes section.

S Ferguson
April 12th, 2013, 04:24
Mmmmm... transparent but effective. I'll try it.

JohnD
August 14th, 2013, 16:36
BTW, everyone, I'm already glad I put the list up! The two top choices are both pretty simple to do, and options I didn't have much sense that people were jonesing for. I might be able to get them into the current release (depending on how long it takes to fix the actual bugs). I'm also surprised that the shopping cart gets no love - I figured other folks were as irritated as I at the process of buying gear for new characters... PITA. But that's a bit more involved, so I'm happy to back-burner the idea.

Be sure to add any of your own new ideas there too!

I went in last night and added something. A good list you have there to begin with.

dr_venture
August 14th, 2013, 17:22
I went in last night and added something. A good list you have there to begin with.

Good news, everyone: your suggested new feature (draggable items) is already one of the key upgrades for the 3.0 C&C ruleset that is under development... it's on the way :)

dr_venture
January 23rd, 2014, 23:17
OK, I think this thread can be un-stickied and sent to the great digital beyond...

damned
January 23rd, 2014, 23:57
Hmmmm.... or we could start to add some of these things to the new ruleset!

JohnD
January 24th, 2014, 03:45
Hmmmm.... or we could start to add some of these things to the new ruleset!

Can't hurt! ;)

Targas
January 29th, 2014, 17:10
I would suggest to add the following ruleset Enhancement to C&C:
For generated encounters, instead of entering a fixed amount of units allow to drag & drop a dice for random amount generation.
As a second step interpret the # of monsters encountered from the monster manual put in the personalities with a dice roll conversion already if possible and pass this to the encounter.

This would make life easier e.g. if you use random monster encounter tables with linked encounters, where the amount can then easily modified and passed to the combat tracker.

Is it just me experiencing this in the last version of FG V 3.02 that formatted chat box bubbles cannot be dragged to the input chat line anymore, used for a GM to speak in character? Now I can only drag and drop the chat box to the big chat window instead.

S Ferguson
January 30th, 2014, 17:52
The great digital beyond. Isn't that off highway 61? It's got red, white and blue shoestrings and a thousand telephones that won't ring - why not a few more suggestions? It keeps the ruleset fresh and hopefully not drag it down into the quagmire it got caught in before.


Cheers,
SF

JohnD
January 30th, 2014, 18:11
Would it be possible to split the Spells tab on the character sheet or add the possibility to have a 2nd or 3rd class?

The one choice we have now works fine for all PCs who only have spell capabilities from a single class, but as soon as you have a Cleric/Wizard for example, or a race that has innate spell casting abilities plus a class that carries spell abilities, everything gets squished together and it is impossible to keep them separated.

dr_venture
January 31st, 2014, 01:40
Would it be possible to split the Spells tab on the character sheet or add the possibility to have a 2nd or 3rd class?

Great suggestion! I'd think that this is something Smiteworks would want to address for CoreRPG, as it's a problem that seems like it would affect all derived rulesets.

damned
January 31st, 2014, 02:08
I would suggest to add the following ruleset Enhancement to C&C:
For generated encounters, instead of entering a fixed amount of units allow to drag & drop a dice for random amount generation.
As a second step interpret the # of monsters encountered from the monster manual put in the personalities with a dice roll conversion already if possible and pass this to the encounter.

This would make life easier e.g. if you use random monster encounter tables with linked encounters, where the amount can then easily modified and passed to the combat tracker.


Do you really want to have the computer decide if the party meets 1-20 ogres? For me it is far preferable that if Ogres come up on the roll I choose how many there are so as to assist the game flow... maybe its one trying to skulk by, maybe its 4 on a rampage and the party have to fight, maybe its 12 of the buggers and the party need to choose to flee or get very creative - but I wouldnt want 12 ogres [b]randomly[b] bumping into my party when they are backed into a cave trying to rest up after a brutal day at the office... just my view... :)

JohnD
January 31st, 2014, 02:29
Great suggestion! I'd think that this is something Smiteworks would want to address for CoreRPG, as it's a problem that seems like it would affect all derived rulesets.

Yes, quite right.

Moon Wizard
January 31st, 2014, 03:22
Actually, the spells tab is unique to C&C. I generally left the Spells tab alone (other than a little cleanup), based on what was already in progress. My first instinct was to drop in the 3.5E spells code, which I resisted in order to keep the interface simpler.

Regards,
JPG

Trenloe
January 31st, 2014, 10:05
Great suggestion! I'd think that this is something Smiteworks would want to address for CoreRPG, as it's a problem that seems like it would affect all derived rulesets.


Yes, quite right.

There's no spells tab in CoreRPG. The Character Sheet is kept specifically generic - there is main, inventory and notes tabs.

S Ferguson
January 31st, 2014, 16:17
Actually, the spells tab is unique to C&C. I generally left the Spells tab alone (other than a little cleanup), based on what was already in progress. My first instinct was to drop in the 3.5E spells code, which I resisted in order to keep the interface simpler.

Regards,
JPG

In due time I suppose that you could alot for a multi-classing environment seeing that it and "Class-and-a-Halfing" are (albeit optional) solid rules laid out in the PHB. However there's no rush. It's just a wishlist for future considerations.

Cheers,
SF

phantomwhale
February 3rd, 2014, 12:21
I've added a few things in - mostly mini-bugs, although in one case I have included the fix too !

As I'm now running a C&C campaign, I might be tempted to actually chip away at a few of the features myself, as my group comes to need / want them. What would be the best way of collaboratively working on the code base ? I could create my own "patched" ruleset, and send you the files I've patched intermittently, all the way up to I'm happy to send patch files, or submit pull requests to a source code repository. Whatever will work best for you, Dr. V, let me know :)

Cheers,
Ben (-PW-)

Andraax
February 3rd, 2014, 13:13
As I'm now running a C&C campaign, I might be tempted to actually chip away at a few of the features myself, as my group comes to need / want them. What would be the best way of collaboratively working on the code base ? I could create my own "patched" ruleset, and send you the files I've patched intermittently, all the way up to I'm happy to send patch files, or submit pull requests to a source code repository. Whatever will work best for you, Dr. V, let me know :)

Create extensions so others can just turn them on or off at will.

dr_venture
February 3rd, 2014, 15:19
Create extensions so others can just turn them on or off at will.

At one point I believe Moon mentioned to me that he was hoping/expecting that dev for the coreRPG-based rulesets to take up the Rolemaster model and that people would start creating extensions with mods in them. When it was time to rev the ruleset, he'd work with the community to identify the extensions that were the most stable and most used and roll them into either CoreRPG or the individual ruleset as appropriate.

In short: what he said.

S Ferguson
February 3rd, 2014, 17:00
I've added a few things in - mostly mini-bugs, although in one case I have included the fix too !

As I'm now running a C&C campaign, I might be tempted to actually chip away at a few of the features myself, as my group comes to need / want them. What would be the best way of collaboratively working on the code base ? I could create my own "patched" ruleset, and send you the files I've patched intermittently, all the way up to I'm happy to send patch files, or submit pull requests to a source code repository. Whatever will work best for you, Dr. V, let me know :)

Cheers,
Ben (-PW-)

I, for one, vote for the code repository. It is much easier to maintain small, workable additions than huge overhauls. Glad to see you running the best thing since SW :).

Cheers,
SF

Moon Wizard
February 3rd, 2014, 19:35
Just make sure the repository is not public please, since this is a licensed ruleset. :)

Thanks,
JPG

damned
February 4th, 2014, 06:49
I've added a few things in - mostly mini-bugs, although in one case I have included the fix too !

As I'm now running a C&C campaign, I might be tempted to actually chip away at a few of the features myself, as my group comes to need / want them. What would be the best way of collaboratively working on the code base ? I could create my own "patched" ruleset, and send you the files I've patched intermittently, all the way up to I'm happy to send patch files, or submit pull requests to a source code repository. Whatever will work best for you, Dr. V, let me know :)

Cheers,
Ben (-PW-)

Woot!
Awesome stuff - it will be great to have another active dev :)

phantomwhale
February 4th, 2014, 11:31
Just make sure the repository is not public please, since this is a licensed ruleset. :)

Thanks,
JPG

Ha, of course not ! I run the SavageWorlds stuff out of a private BitBucket repository (free for 5 users).

Dr. V - up to you on any collaboration. Happy to put features into extensions, although multiple extensions on a ruleset can tend to clash. Mostly though, I was thinking about working on any bug fixes and code refactorings / improvements, which wouldn't make sense in extensions.

Not expecting to be vastly prolific, but having some established place to collaborate on the source code, esp. with a solid tool like Git, would certainly encourage what efforts I can muster.

S Ferguson
February 4th, 2014, 17:08
Ha, of course not ! I run the SavageWorlds stuff out of a private BitBucket repository (free for 5 users).

Dr. V - up to you on any collaboration. Happy to put features into extensions, although multiple extensions on a ruleset can tend to clash. Mostly though, I was thinking about working on any bug fixes and code refactorings / improvements, which wouldn't make sense in extensions.

Not expecting to be vastly prolific, but having some established place to collaborate on the source code, esp. with a solid tool like Git, would certainly encourage what efforts I can muster.

Good points all. Any degree of proliferation is much appreciated. Dakadin helped me out when I worked on the Calendar and now it's a staple of FG 3.0.2 (or whatever the version-y code is). Little things can work big wonders. If you have ideas that you can't work on, but can offer advice on, I'd be happy to code. Git works fine with me. When Dr. V and I were working on the previous version, we had a private dropbox, which more or less accomplished the same thing (limiting # of users, etc). Once again, glad there is life beyond SW.

Cheers,
SF

Targas
March 30th, 2014, 07:19
Not sure if the HD field in the monsters properties is used to calculate Bonus To Hit, I want to have a field in the monsters properties called 'HP' like in the Pathfinder ruleset, where you can actually preset the amount of hit points for monsters mentioned in an adventure module. Right now, you can srt the HP of a monster to a specific amount only if you enter something like HD: 0 (d6)+8 to set the HP to 8, if in reality this is a 2 (d6) HD monster.
Does anyone know if there is some calculation behind the HD monster property field at the moment, besides randomly picking a hp amount otherwise?

Andraax
March 30th, 2014, 14:06
The HD is used to set the BtH for the creature. In the options screen, you can specify whether to roll for NPC HPs, set it to max, or set it to average. If neither of those work for you, you can always set it manually after it's been added to the CT.

Targas
March 30th, 2014, 16:20
All 4 options do not work quite well. If you are in the middle of a fight in an adventure, you don't have the time to set the HP for each encounter placed manually, then after you had the fight enter the XP - based on the amount of HP manually as well.
If you can set is as in the Pathfinder ruleset directly by having a separate HP field in the monster properties, you could easily prepare in advance not having to adjust each of the 30 encounters encountered in an evening manually, checking the story entry each time what HP value you have to set, etc. I think you get the picture...

Andraax
March 30th, 2014, 16:31
No, I don't get the picture. Instead of rolling the HP ahead of time, I'll save time by just letting FG roll them for me when I add them to tracker. I see no need to spend the time rolling them manually, then entering them manually. I just drop the creature in, and let FG handle the HPs for me. As far as XP goes, I pre-calculate the value by using average HPs (I round the XP for encounters anyway, so they're never "exact"). Who cares if I'm over by 5 XP this combat and under by 3 XP next combat? The average, over time, will give the players roughly the same number of XP.

Targas
March 30th, 2014, 16:57
I'm on the same page with you for wandering encounters, but not for adventure module preset encounters, where the monsters where intentionally given statistics based on the amount and level of the adventurers. If I play an adventure made for a a specific setting it really makes a differences when - for whatever reason - the adventure scenario designer added a powerful monster and edit the specs to tailor it to the adventure, or you just use half, max or random HP settings which is not the same. Sometimes it gets so busy, that you don't want to manually change each entry as a GM / CK every time you have an encounter, but will set this in advance to run the game more smoothly.
You might even sometime forget to change it manually. So please understand different players have different playstyles and this feature would in my opinion enhance the game. Thank you.

JohnD
March 30th, 2014, 17:14
Just to note - the option to set the HP exists with an NPC but not a Monster. Perhaps that functionality could be brought over.

Personally, sometimes I want to set the HP of NPCs, and sometimes I let the CT generate randomly.

Andraax
March 30th, 2014, 18:13
I guess I can't understand someone who just uses a module "as is". After all, the module creator can't make up stats for *every* mix of player's character class and level, plus the vagaries of how much damage they've taken up until this point in the adventure. I ignore the HP in modules - after all, it was just the module creator's idea of the proper HP, and I'm the final arbiter of monster strength in my setting - and let it roll them automatically. I might even adjust them a bit *during* combat, if the players are rolling particularly well or particularly badly. The module creator can *never* know in advance what's going on in my game.

If all I'm doing is dropping in what someone else wrote up and playing it as is, what's the point of a CK (GM)? The computer can just run it by itself. My job is to keep things balanced and fun *during* the game, which many times means adjusting stuff on the fly.

Trenloe
March 30th, 2014, 18:19
Different people GM their games differently. IMHO asking for another option to pre-set HP is a perfectly valid request. Adding this option would not take away GM freedom to change the HPs as needed during an encounter.

Targas
March 30th, 2014, 18:31
I would change the monster HP during combat in the CT as well if dire need arises, though not evident to the players and only seldom. It's a balance between challenge and survival. Though I really would like the option to preset HP, as both would not eliminate each others use.

JohnD
March 30th, 2014, 18:32
The option would be a good one to enable. As above, I do a hybrid approach, but everyone does it differently. I can see ad hoc adjustments not being a big deal if you have a small group to do, but when you get into the realm of setting PCs to face heroic odds, for example a party of seven facing a 7:1 mass combat outnumbered situation, it would be too much to continually adjust.

More functionality that you can decide to use or not is a step forward in my opinion.