BRP: Converting 2.8 to 2.9.2

[S Ferguson]

It seems that BRP got "stuck," for lack of a better word, at FG 2.8. If anyone has had experience updating these rulesets these questions are for you.

I'm trying to bring over the calendar feature to BRP I've been successful insofar as getting everything working except for the fact that I keep getting the error in Ccalendar_top that sub_entry is a nil value (i.e. doesn't exist). I get as far as the base screen opening up before the error occurs. Any clue what could be wrong?

Also, A lot of features have been incorporated into 2.9 that were not available in 2.8. I've read the update log but it doesn't pin down what this means for the ruleset changes. It runs well, but like an old car it really needs a paint job. Has anyone worked on incorporating, say, the radial selection tool to a more "modern" version?

Any help (especially with the calendar), would be appreciated.

[wbcreighton]

I have read that Moon Wizard is hoping to modularize some of the newer features ( like the calendar ) to make it easier to update rulesets that need some improving.

That might go a long way in helping BRP.

[Moon Wizard]

I'm actually working on that now, but it's months away still. Watch the Laboratory forum for more information towards summer time.

Regards,
JPG

[S Ferguson]

Thank goodness. A developer on the line. Just for my sanity's sake, however, how would you go about clearing the calendar up? Like I said I've almost got it going. Oh and Moon-Wizard, if you need any art or an extra hand at programming for the project, I'd be happy to oblige.

[S Ferguson]

In fact, if you have anything you need done that's within reason, I'd be more than happy to help, just to get the experience in modifying rulesets.

[wbcreighton]

I haven't done any programming with FG2 so have no experience.

Considering that FG2 keeps improving and has more features added to it, is it better to write an extension to BRP that adds in features, or write an extension to 3.5 or 4 ruleset which do have the new features ( and will continue to get more support because of the bigger player base ? ).

When 3.5 or 4 gets updated changes to the d100 extension might be required.

I would think about this before undertaking any major work. If a solid d100 ruleset extension was written if might be a good starting off point.

[S Ferguson]

I feel that the fan base is there. Enough people are keen on Chaosium games, it's the fact that the ruleset has fallen behind others I believe that is the deterrant. I mean that when other systems get updated to a certain level, it becomes easier to maintain the cross-compatibility, between rulesets. If you're a, say Runequest and Pathfinder fan, Pathfinder is naturally going to draw a larger crowd, simply because of the "transparancy" of the system (i.e. less steps to accomplish more). By keeping the ruleset up to date, you promote customer satisfaction and keep, or even gain, a user-base.

And don't forget, BRP is one of the only sanctioned, and licensed systems that is truly "universal" (Savage worlds games usually deal with "horror" or "pulp" in some way or another which is just as achievable in BRP), but if the fan base is to grow, changes for the better have to be made. If you consider that bringing the rules set up to date, requires a small hurdle to begin with, but once there, it becomes just as maintainable as other rulesets when you're done. Small changes in one rulleset can be brought over with minimal investment time.

It's all for the greater good. Trust me.:D

[wbcreighton]

One thing to keep in mind is that BRP can't be distributed (unless you have an agreement with Smiteworks), you can only make extensions available for it.

I would look forward to an updated version of BRP, and to seeing someone giving it the love and attention that it deserves ( much like what is happening with 4E, SW and RM ).

I just know that person won't be me.:)

[S Ferguson]

Which is why eveyone will behave and act on their best behavior. Most on the Chasium Games are out of Chaosium's hands anyway. The licenses on Ringworld, Stormbringer, Hawkmoon, Runequest and Elfquest have all expired (to name the one's I can think of off the top of my head). but there are BRP-specific "monographs" and supplements like Vikings, and Novus Mundit, that could still be on the slate for approval. No you can't distribute BRP but you can spread the word that the oldest kid on the block is still a contender.

[Zeus]

Thank goodness. A developer on the line. Just for my sanity's sake, however, how would you go about clearing the calendar up? Like I said I've almost got it going. Oh and Moon-Wizard, if you need any art or an extra hand at programming for the project, I'd be happy to oblige.

If your not able to wait for the modularised rulesets come the summer, you could always port the 4E Partysheet extension. The extension first introduced campaign calendar controls and logs as a tab in the PS.

Later when moon incorporated a bunch of my old extensions into 3.5/4E, for ease of use the Calendar was separated from the PS to function in its own dedicated window. The core logic has changed slightly i.e. moon changed the database node structure slightly however functionally its still the same. You can grab the extension along with all my other older 4E extension at my site (see my sig).

[S Ferguson]

If your not able to wait for the modularised rulesets come the summer, you could always port the 4E Partysheet extension. The extension first introduced campaign calendar controls and logs as a tab in the PS.

Later when moon incorporated a bunch of my old extensions into 3.5/4E, for ease of use the Calendar was separated from the PS to function in its own dedicated window. The core logic has changed slightly i.e. moon changed the database node structure slightly however functionally its still the same. You can grab the extension along with all my other older 4E extension at my site (see my sig).


Thanks. Needed that. And I can't wait 'til it comes out. If I could compensate you for working exclusively on it, I would.:D

[wbcreighton]

That sounds promising. Question for you SF:

Are you going to make an extension that we can use with the BRP ruleset as opposed to directly modifying the ruleset ?

[S Ferguson]

That sounds promising. Question for you SF:

Are you going to make an extension that we can use with the BRP ruleset as opposed to directly modifying the ruleset ?

Yes. It will be an extention to tie us over.

[Moon Wizard]

The calendar code is fairly modularized in the 3.5E/4E rulesets, so it shouldn't be much different than porting the extension.

I appreciate the offer to help. Part of the challenge is that I'm using the conversion to layered rulesets to help me define what needs to be in the new FG version. I sort of bounce back and forth between ruleset conversion and building features.

I'll post a little blurb in the Laboratory forum to give people a taste of what's coming.

Cheers,
JPG

[S Ferguson]

The calendar code is fairly modularized in the 3.5E/4E rulesets, so it shouldn't be much different than porting the extension.

I appreciate the offer to help. Part of the challenge is that I'm using the conversion to layered rulesets to help me define what needs to be in the new FG version. I sort of bounce back and forth between ruleset conversion and building features.

I'll post a little blurb in the Laboratory forum to give people a taste of what's coming.

Cheers,
JPG

Yes, I'm finding it the 3.5/4e code a lot easier to port than taking out the old material from the old code. The offer still stands though. It's not like I can't be reached.;)

[S Ferguson]

I've now got the calendar functional to a point. The icon shows up, you can press it and a big, blank, black screen shows up. The backgrounds and coding style are a little primitive by 2.9 standards. Could anyone with experience converting older rulesets give me a pointer on what to look for when translating the graphics part of more "modern" code?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Moon Wizard]

Make sure to bring the console up using the /console command in the chat box. It will show warning messages from missing graphics, etc. It's great for debugging rulesets, especially when upgrading older ones.

Regards,
JPG

[S Ferguson]

Make sure to bring the console up using the /console command in the chat box. It will show warning messages from missing graphics, etc. It's great for debugging rulesets, especially when upgrading older ones.

Regards,
JPG

Yes. A handy feature. You can even test Lua code from it. The problem really lies in what graphics you're going to *be* replacing them with, in order to maintain a consistant look for the ruleset. Any ideas?

[Moon Wizard]

My graphics skills are limited, so I typically re-use components from elsewhere in the ruleset when at all possible. I also will modify graphics in Photoshop to make them fit the scheme I want.

I believe that the calendar is mostly frame graphics. Frames are defined in 9 chunks (top left, top, top right, left, center, right, bottom left, bottom, bottom right) with tiling used for all but the corners. You can see the details in the framedef tags.

If I want to change the look to match other window elements, I look at the window and control frames used in another window I want to imitate, then start swapping icon/frame names and tweaking the positions of controls.

Hopefully that gave you some ideas, not sure where you are at in the process.

Regards,
JPG

[S Ferguson]

That's the stage I'm at. Thanks. I'll take a few examples from the ruleset and see what i can do.

[S Ferguson]

Ok. Got the window up but now it's complaining about button_listadd being nil when it's defined in the same windowclass (albeit later - Lua doesn't care about the order of things though). This has me at an impasse. I can get the string to appear, but no button around it (due to the above). I'm sure the code works as advertised, it's just getting it to work on older systems. Suggestions? Anyone?

Thanks in advance.

[Moon Wizard]

button_listadd is a template that would need to be defined in one of the XML files.

JPG

[S Ferguson]

That's the problem. button_listadd *is* defined in the calendar.xml file as a named class under string_listadd. It's getting the string_add no problem, but not following through with the button_listadd. The console complains about it not being global and nil. Strange days indeed.

I think. I should start another thread, as it's kind of veered off course of the main thread.