Undead Anatomy

[Gertak]

I used search but did not find anything on the spell, so I apologize if this has already been asked.

Does Undead Anatomy allow the use of templates, such as skeleton, zombie, burning skeleton, etc? I know the polymorph description in the core rulebook says you cannot use templates but undead anatomy says specifically "you can assume the form of any Small or Medium corpeal creature of the undead type, which must be vaguely humanoid-shaped (like a ghoul, skeleton, or zombie)."

The spell was added in after core so perhaps core was just never updated to reflect the new spell? Or is the wording on the spell just vague and seems to imply what it does not?

[Malkavian_Andi]

Since you don't actually trade your stats for the target creature's stats, it would be useless to apply the skeleton or zombie template to a creature to transform into that creature.
For the purpose of gaining abilities listed in the spell's description, I'd say you just look at the standard version of zombies and skeletons listed in the Bestiary. That way you don't have to use a template on anything.

[Gertak]

The problem is that Zombies and Skeletons are a template by default, even if you use the base stats listed in the beastiary those are just the stats for a human version template.

There could be some pretty nice advantages to using the zombie or skeleton template, such as the ability to turn into a skeleton of any size the spell you are using allows, along with the stat increases the spell gives based on size. Additionally some of the effects listed in the spell as bonuses you gain only appear on templates as far as I can find, such as fire aura and fiery death (burning skeleton), DR 15/bludgeoning and magic (Lich), DR 10/magic and silver (vampire),

(the Hollow Serpent also has DR 10/magic and silver but isn't a humanoid)

Applying some other templates could add many dimensions to the creatures you can choose with the spell, like having fiery aura from a huge zombie giant, gaining blood drain from a diminutive vampire creature, and other such interesting combinations.

[Trenloe]

The way I read the spell as referenced here: https://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/undeadAnatomy.html#_undead-anatomy-i

"you can assume the form of any Small or Medium corporeal creature of the undead type, which must be vaguely humanoid-shaped (like a ghoul, skeleton, or zombie). You gain a bite attack (1d6 for Medium forms, 1d4 for Small forms), two claw or slam attacks (1d6 for Medium forms, 1d4 for Small forms), and darkvision 60 feet. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, low-light vision, and scent."

Basically, decide what form you want - Orc Zombie (medium), Goblin Skeleton (small), a Gargoyle Ghoul (which gains fly 30 feet because a Gargoyle has a fly speed) a Mite Zombie (small, gains climb speed, scent, low light vision with darkvision drops to 60 feet). The form assumed doesn't give you any of the abilities of that form (be it an Orc or a Zombie, for example), only the things mentioned in the quoted paragraph above, and as follows:

"In this form, you detect as an undead creature (such as with detect undead, but not with magic that reveals your true form, such as true seeing) and are treated as undead for the purposes of channeled energy, cure spells, and inflict spells, but not for other effects that specifically target or react differently to undead (such as searing light).

Small undead: If the form you take is that of a Small undead, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Medium undead: If the form you take is that of a Medium undead, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus."

That's my take on it - hope it makes sense...

[Gertak]

The way you interpret it is basically how I think it should work as well. You can assume the form of an undead creature of whatever type, but you only gain the abilities of that creature within the confines of the spell. For example if you turned into an orc skeleton using undead anatomy 1 you'd just gain the claw/claw/bite and dark vision 60'. If you turned into that same orc skeleton using undead anatomy 2, though, you'd also gain the DR 5/Bludgeon.

So if that is true, can you use any of the templates for undead, like a burning skeleton, a vampire, or a lich? If not, some of the abilities listed as potential gains, especially in undead anatomy 4, do not exist on any creature to be gained. (the vampire DR, lich DR, and burning skeleton fiery aura and fiery death I listed for example)

[Trenloe]

So if that is true, can you use any of the templates for undead, like a burning skeleton, a vampire, or a lich? If not, some of the abilities listed as potential gains, especially in undead anatomy 4, do not exist on any creature to be gained. (the vampire DR, lich DR, and burning skeleton fiery aura and fiery death I listed for example)
Yeah, I'd say so... Note also that with Undead Anatomy II the constraint of having to be "vaguely humanoid-shaped" is removed - bring on undead ghoul dragons! As the spell effectively filters what benefits you can get, I think you can create any undead creature that fits in the size, humanoid and corporeal limits of the spell (applying templates as necessary) and use that undead creature as the base for undead anatomy which will filter out what abilities are actually available.

[Gertak]

I did not notice that omission in II, III, IV. That is very interesting and may explain some of the abilities like web and rake being listed in the later sections. Of course, going with the non-humanoid shaped creatures also means you lose your armor/weapon access that you normally would keep as a humanoid shaped undead.

Thanks very much for the reply.