Ruleset slow

[jittraw]

Hi,
I think since the last update 2.9.2 (maybe even before), whenever I open the character selection box (as GM or PC), FG2 is desesperatly slowing down to the point where I need more than 5 seconds to right-clik or switch between the different sheets.

The other parts of the ruleset are not affected (notes, images, ...).

If I create a new campaign everything works fine, then I add 1 character it's slows down. The more characters, the slower it is to open the said box.

Actually it's not just the box, it's everything linked to the characters (opening sheets, rolling dice, checking skills, ...).

Is it happening to anyone else or is it just me ?
Thank you for your help!

PS: I should say that the ruleset has been changed. It's just cosmetic (different pictures, different sheet), but perhaps it matters. Once again, I have been playing with it since at least a year, and it worked fine before!

[Trenloe]

If the ruleset has been changed, then it is good to rule that out as the cause of the slowdown. Try doing the same tests you outline in a campaign with an unchanged ruleset and see if the same slowdown occurs.

[jittraw]

Right I should have started with that...

Anyway, I tried with the unchanged Cthulhu ruleset, and as soon as I open a Character sheet (as the GM), it takes way more time to do a lot of stuff (basically everything related to the characters, or involving a right-click). It gets worse if the sheet is full.

I strongly suspect the updates.

PS: Probably related to the db.xml file in "app data/roaming".

[phantomwhale]

Just passing through, so apologies for the vagueness of this answer, but I had a similar issue with Deadlands: Reloaded extension (that I wrote) just over a year ago.

In the end, moon_wizard got me to run FantasyGrounds with a debugging switch on, which pushed out a log file. Once I had that logfile, I got players to log in and start, and sure enough after a few minutes, one statement kept coming up in the log file over and over again, in greater numbers.

It seemed something in the extension had been programmed in such a way to cause an "echo" where the user update changed something on the host machine, which pushed an update to all clients, which caused an update on the server, which pushed etc.... until the overhead slowed down FGII immensely.

So maybe hunt down that thread and try similar tricks, and see if the log file fills up, or even just monitor your network traffic and see if that still keeps going when your not changing anything ? It could be a badly written bit of code meeting a tidy up in 2.9.2, so fixable in the Call of Cthulhu ruleset.

Can anyone else reproduce this effect with the CoC ruleset ? (I don't have it, otherwise I'd try)

[jittraw]

My issue is a bit different, FG2 slows down when I open something related to the Character, and goes back to normal when I close the thing. I mean, there is no interaction whatsoever with the server or even the clients. Only the local files.

Though, the way that you solved your issue is interesting. Could you tell me what you meant by "a debugging switch on" ? Where do I find it / how dow I use it ?
Thanks for the answer!

[Trenloe]

My issue is a bit different, FG2 slows down when I open something related to the Character, and goes back to normal when I close the thing. I mean, there is no interaction whatsoever with the server or even the clients. Only the local files.
Sounds like a cyclical update/refresh going on. We experienced this in the Rolesmaster ruleset on the skill tab - when skill grouping was enabled the code got into a loop of updates. I might be wrong, but it sounds like you're experiencing something similar.

Of course, the question is why is this only happening since the 2.9.2 update?

Unfortunately, I don't have the CoC ruleset either so can't check the code...

[damned]

Hi phantomwhale and Trenloe I have tried the debugging option in settings but I cant see where it is writing/logging to. Does this option still work? Is there another command line switch you used for logging?

[phantomwhale]

Probably better off asking moon_wizard - I haven't used debug for a couple of years now, so couldn't be sure of the details

[Trenloe]

The debug setting only writes some additional info to console.log, not much and certainly nothing that will help this issue. The best way to debug this issue is find a reliable an repeatable process of reproducing the issue. Then the code related to that process can be examined and additional Debug.console commands used to try to identify loops, etc..

For example, when we had a slow down and memory crash with the Rolemaster ruleset it was noticed that it appeared to occur if the character sheet was left open on the skills tab, with a specific type of grouping enabled. This allowed the code around order/grouping to be looked at and a loop found.

Like with most software problems, most of the hard work is getting a repeatable process to reproduce the issue. Once that has been done then it allows the developers to look in depth in the area of the process, and also gives them a firm test to see if any changes they make fix the issue.

[damned]

Some of the things that seem somewhat wrong to me in CoC are CoreRPG features - like Module Activation. Opening/Activating a module in CoC is so finicky - you click and hold the closed book, wait 1 second, move the mouse to the left, wait till it shadow draws the page and then move further to the left to complete the opening/activation. Doing it in CoreRPG or 5e or CnC and its snappy. Is there anything in a ruleset that would affect a CoreRPG function? These appear to only be in CoreRPG and in file utility_library.xml

[Trenloe]

Module activation works fine for me across a number of CoC modules. Do you see this as the Keeper or Player? Which modules does it do this for? How much memory is your FantasyGrounds.exe running at?

[Trenloe]

Are you running any extensions at all? What version of the Call of Cthulhu and CoreRPG ruleset is reported in the chat window?

[leozelig]

Some of the things that seem somewhat wrong to me in CoC are CoreRPG features - like Module Activation. Opening/Activating a module in CoC is so finicky - you click and hold the closed book, wait 1 second, move the mouse to the left, wait till it shadow draws the page and then move further to the left to complete the opening/activation. Doing it in CoreRPG or 5e or CnC and its snappy. Is there anything in a ruleset that would affect a CoreRPG function? These appear to only be in CoreRPG and in file utility_library.xml

I saw this when I played CoC at the last FGDaze. I was clicking and dragging, and nothing was opening. After a few tries, I was able to open the module with a very deliberate click... and... drag maneuver.

[Trenloe]

I saw this when I played CoC at the last FGDaze. I was clicking and dragging, and nothing was opening. After a few tries, I was able to open the module with a very deliberate click... and... drag maneuver.
Can you remember which module it was?
Was this soon after joining the session, or after a while?
Do you have the CoC ruleset (and modules) installed on the computer that showed the issue?

[damned]

It does this on my old laptop and on brand new Win10 computer with SSD.

It does this with ALL modules in CoC - even generic modules like the map modules.
CoC ruleset 3.12
CoreRPG ruleset 3.12
With and without extensions loaded

Ive experienced the same when doing remote support for other CoC GMs. Opening the module using remote control software made me feel so uncoordinated. The way leozelig describes it is pretty accurately.

[Trenloe]

This is as a GM or a player? Both work fine for me.

Is it any different if you double-click on the module thumbnail in module activation rather than opening the book via click-drag?

[damned]

This is as GM.
Ive always had the problem with this ruleset.
Double-clicking has no effect on either closed or open books.
Double-clicking and keeping the mouse over the closed book may result in a ghost (faint outline) book open but will not open the book.

[dberkompas]

How absolutely insane. FG (specifically the CoC ruleset) lags on my Windows 10 notebook (the machine is only a year old), and runs quite nicely emulated on my Mac.
(Yes, the Mac is much newer and a LOT more beefy, but it's a work machine)

BoomerET

[damned]

What specific things lag in CoC for you? I get lag in some areas but not everyone does. Specifically open modules is very finnicky for me.

[dberkompas]

Just entering text in the name field lags as I type characters. I've tried Savage Worlds and D&D 5E rulesets, and I don't get lag when entering data in either of those.

I'm going to Blame Canada.


BoomerET

[Trenloe]

Moved a few posts about slow ruleset/lag to this thread. Please provide more info regarding lag/slowness. Exact steps to re-produce would be great - i.e. from a fresh load of a campaign. Include info about any modules/extensions loaded.

@dberkompas Which name field do you refer to that lags when you type characters?

[dberkompas]

Test version 3.1.13
OS: Windows 10
Notebook is an i5, 4GB Ram, 500GBHD

Note: Field is characters name, but every text field acts the same.

Steps:
1. Created new Savage Worlds game, no mods/extensions/libraries loaded. No lag while typing name into character sheet.
2. Created new D&D 5E game, no mods/extensions/libraries loaded. No lag while typing name into character sheet.
3. Created new CoreRPG game, no mods/extensions/libraries loaded. No lag while typing name into character sheet.
4. Created new Call of Cthulhu game, no mods/extensions/libraries loaded. Mild/annoying lag while typing name into character sheet. (sometimes up to 3 seconds or more lag after key typed)
5. Created new Call of Cthulhu game, CoC7e 1.0.6 extension. Mild/annoying lag while typing name into character sheet.

OS: Mac El Capitan, using Wine Bottler
No lag on any of the above cases. (Macbook Pro Retina, 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD)

BoomerET

[dberkompas]

Another note to make.

If I copy/paste text in, there isn't any lag. Talk about odd.

Then again, it is Call of Cthulhu, we should expect odd behavior.
(Yea, cliche, but I had to go there)


BoomerET

[Trenloe]

(Yea, cliche, but I had to go there)
chuckle :D

[Trenloe]

Note: Field is characters name, but every text field acts the same.
Every text field in the character sheet, or every text field everywhere? If it happens in another window, close down all windows except that one and see if it still lags. I'm trying to work out if there is a loop in a specific window or in the background somewhere.

[damned]

How absolutely bizarre. I have *never* had a situation where CoC hasnt been laggy and difficult to activate modules.
Testing wight now. Its working 100% happily.

[dberkompas]

text in all fields, except for notes and story.

Notes and Story items there wasn't any lag at all.

I'm wondering if this is just a keyboard issue, maybe it's trying to do something, or detect something each time a key is pressed?
That seems to make sense to me, since there's no lag when copy/pasting.



BoomerET

[dberkompas]

Zoiks, Data Module Activation is nasty slow, scrolling appears to not work, but it does, its just lagggggged. (4 seconds after I click a scroll bar, it reacts)

Again, this is ONLY happening in CoC, no extension, no libraries, no modules.

[Trenloe]

Look at the Windows Task Manager and see what the CPU load is on the FantasyGrounds32.exe process.

[Trenloe]

Can you also try it with a theme (perhaps the wood theme) in a CoC campaign. Trying to eliminate if it's something to do with a clash with your graphics card in some way due to something special in the CoC graphics.

[dberkompas]

In the module activation, if I just clicked my mouse wheel one click, the CPU of FG would jump to 20%, then back down. Same thing trying to activate a module.

Did the same with the wood theme and dungeon theme. CPU would spike to 20%, then back down.

Turning in for the evening.

[Moon Wizard]

Yeah, I'm not seeing it either. As Trenloe mentioned, perhaps some sort of graphics sizing issue that only crops up for certain graphics drivers/cards? It's very strange, since CoC re-uses a lot of the same ruleset code, fonts and some of the graphics.

JPG

[damned]

a few people have mentioned the module activation glitch - for me its been a long time issue but today it just worked...

[Moon Wizard]

Perhaps a specific combination of actions, data modules or other configuration...

It's really hard to track down unless I can figure out the trigger, so anything else you guys can suggest would be great.

Cheers,
JPG

[MadBeardMan]

What debugging is there available within FG? I'm spending a lot of time within the CoC ruleset and have not had any real issues beyond the odd niggle (the formatting of bold/italic adds a space after the closing tag). But I'd like to enable it just in case. I love doing this stuff at work so why not in my hobby time? :)

[dulux-oz]

Very little, unless you go into the various lua scripts - and even there its little more than glorified "print this value and type(value) to the console" stuff.

The lua command is "Debug.console(<variable|object|whatever>)"

If there's anything more I haven't discovered it yet :(

Cheers

[MadBeardMan]

Very little, unless you go into the various lua scripts - and even there its little more than glorified "print this value and type(value) to the console" stuff.

The lua command is "Debug.console(<variable|object|whatever>)"

If there's anything more I haven't discovered it yet :(

Cheers

Ah ok, bit of a shame really. Cheers for replying though chap :)

[dberkompas]

I would not be at all surprised if it was a graphics driver problem. I've seen those pop up even in software that wasn't GPU depenedent.


BoomerET

[dberkompas]

I'm slowly working through the problem.

I've narrowed it down to the frames directory under graphics.

I'll keep this updated with my progress.


BoomerET

[dberkompas]

Great news, I've found two png files that absolutely KILL the interface.

fieldlight.png and groupbox.png

When I remove these two files, everything is perfect, no lag, just pure sweet playing.

I'm going to play around some more, and see what I can come up with.

But at the very least, this is a great find I think.


BoomerET

[dberkompas]

Ok, so I just replaced the two files listed above with the same filename from the D&D 5E ruleset, and everything is working perfectly!

I'm sure you can only imagine how happy I am.


BoomerET

[dulux-oz]

Sounds like the graphics files might have become corrupted somehow - weird

[dberkompas]

I'm wondering if they're just too small, one is 15x15 and the other is 20x20, and they're tiled, so maybe they're just taking up too much memory?

[dulux-oz]

So why would the 5E images work and not the others - aren't they the same image (if not the same image size)?

[dberkompas]

Nope, they're different sizes.

[Trenloe]

But at the very least, this is a great find I think.
Indeed - excellent work. :)

[MadBeardMan]

Ok, so I just replaced the two files listed above with the same filename from the D&D 5E ruleset, and everything is working perfectly!

I'm sure you can only imagine how happy I am.

BoomerET

Excellent find chap, well one!

[damned]

The corerpg (and other rulesets too) have much larger images for these fields - like 200x200px or similar even though they are usually just filling in quite small areas.
Well done dberkompas!

[MadBeardMan]

I wonder if this is simply to do with padding of sprites. ie a 15x15 may still take up 128x128 of memory and then the 15x15 tiles stack over each other (so no space between them) meaning you have a lot more memory usage, as you have a lot more tiles on the screen.

What are the size of the D&D versions? I'm at work so can't look, but seems a simple fix.

[Moon Wizard]

It has everything to do with the way that frames work. The frame graphics are cut up into 9 sections (topleft, left, bottomleft, top, middle, bottom, topright, right, bottomright) and the relevant sections are used to create the display you see on the screen. If the graphic is too small for the size needed, it is tiled to fill the space. It sounds like lots of tiling is giving laptop graphics cards an issue.

This is actually very timely investigative work, since I think this is related to another issue that kylania mentioned with the new language drop down in the beta version. Thanks to dberkompas for figuring this out.

Regards,
JPG

[Moon Wizard]

I just looked at these. The default CoC fieldlight middle tile was defined as 3x3 with 6x6 pixel edge tiles, and the groupbox middle tile was defined as 8x8 with 6x6 pixel edge tiles. That means a number control that was 30x20 would have a center of 18x8 which would require 18 middle tiles to fill.

Most of the frame graphics are sized to need one middle tile for most situations (and up to 4 tiles if large space defined such as windows).

Regards,
JPG

[MadBeardMan]

I just looked at these. The default CoC fieldlight middle tile was defined as 3x3 with 6x6 pixel edge tiles, and the groupbox middle tile was defined as 8x8 with 6x6 pixel edge tiles. That means a number control that was 30x20 would have a center of 18x8 which would require 18 middle tiles to fill.


Forgive my n00bness here.

Is this someone in the community needs to resolve (making bigger versions and sending them in) or is this something that Smiteworks will address (and thus update the Ruleset).

All in all, great work still to find this, not an issue for me (I run 9700/9800 cards).

Cheers

[Moon Wizard]

Yes, we manage the Call Of Cthulhu ruleset. I just finished the changes on the development version, and they are queued for the next beta push after FG Con weekend.

Cheers,
JPG

[MadBeardMan]

Yes, we manage the Call Of Cthulhu ruleset. I just finished the changes on the development version, and they are queued for the next beta push after FG Con weekend.

Cheers,
JPG

Nice one, thanks for letting me know.

I'm designing a new Theme for the Horror on the Orient Express conversion I'm doing, so I'll make sure all the graphics are tablet/laptop friendly.

MBM

[damned]

This bug/error is also in the Trail of Cthulhu ruleset. I replaced some of the same graphics that dberkompas mentions to fix those issues. Thanks again!

[dberkompas]

I've just updated (Test release) and the nasty horrible lag I've encountered in the past has mysteriously disappeared. (Well, obviously not so mysteriously, but I thought to play along with the whole Cthulhu theme)

Thanks Smiteworks for getting this fixed.


BoomerET

[Trenloe]

I've just updated (Test release) and the nasty horrible lag I've encountered in the past has mysteriously disappeared. (Well, obviously not so mysteriously, but I thought to play along with the whole Cthulhu theme)
Yeah, it was part of this update: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?26330-Test-Release-v3-1-3&p=235562&viewfull=1#post235562

Great, fast application of the fix by SmiteWorks. And great troubleshooting to start with. :)