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Trueshots
December 20th, 2012, 15:13
Ok rolled a Barb for my son for a game were playing in on Sunday. He wants a pet so I bought him a Hunting Cat. I'm using Hero Lab to make character and the pet. I read on multiple forums, that you don't need "handle animal" if you raise you pets intelligence so that it can have common language or a language understood by the player (In my son's toon's case orc and common he has both). The cat can't talk back but he can understand everything that is said by his master.

That being said, I find little on any site or book at this point about creating/building pets. In hero lab I'm just adjusting everything to my liking until all the "red" goes away. I just don't want to do this then find out he can't even use the cat for whatever reason.

Any Help would be great thanks.

Trenloe
December 20th, 2012, 15:35
You'll need to use handle animal if you want to issue commands to the pet. Ultimate Equipment (p82) has the "Cat, Hunting" entry as "Rarely, medium cats such as cheetahs and leopards are trained to hunt for humanoid masters."

Looking at the "Train animal for a purpose" section of the Handle Animal skill, Hunting is: "An animal trained for hunting knows the tricks attack, down, fetch, heel, seek, and track."

To command the animal to do one of it's tricks is a DC 10 Handle animal check and is a move action. To "push" an animal to do a trick it doesn't know is a DC 25 Handle Animal check that is a full round action.

Read through the handle animal skill description - it gives a lot of info about tricks and use.

You're buying a hunting cat so you get a medium cat trained for hunting with the 6 tricks above. It has intelligence 2, so it has a maximum of 6 tricks.

Trueshots
December 20th, 2012, 15:48
You'll need to use handle animal if you want to issue commands to the pet. Ultimate Equipment (p82) has the "Cat, Hunting" entry as "Rarely, medium cats such as cheetahs and leopards are trained to hunt for humanoid masters."

Looking at the "Train animal for a purpose" section of the Handle Animal skill, Hunting is: "An animal trained for hunting knows the tricks attack, down, fetch, heel, seek, and track."

To command the animal to do one of it's tricks is a DC 10 Handle animal check and is a move action. To "push" an animal to do a trick it doesn't know is a DC 25 Handle Animal check that is a full round action.

Read through the handle animal skill description - it gives a lot of info about tricks and use.

You're buying a hunting cat so you get a medium cat trained for hunting with the 6 tricks above. It has intelligence 2, so it has a maximum of 6 tricks.

I can't copy and paste the thread I was reading because it appears that the paizo site has been down for 2 days now. Anyway. When I'm working on this cat in hero lab he starts with an intelligence of 10. I keep reading about int 2 and int 3 but hero lab has it at 10? Not sure why, that's why im confused. The post I was reading says that once you gain an additional point to (int 3), at level 4 I think, you no longer need handle animal nor do you have to teach the pet tricks. This was confirmed by multiple people on multiple posts I read.
But my immediate concern is the stat number because hero lab is letting me do all kind of crazy stuff lol!

Trenloe
December 20th, 2012, 16:19
I can't copy and paste the thread I was reading because it appears that the paizo site has been down for 2 days now. Anyway. When I'm working on this cat in hero lab he starts with an intelligence of 10. I keep reading about int 2 and int 3 but hero lab has it at 10? Not sure why, that's why im confused. The post I was reading says that once you gain an additional point to (int 3), at level 4 I think, you no longer need handle animal nor do you have to teach the pet tricks. This was confirmed by multiple people on multiple posts I read.
But my immediate concern is the stat number because hero lab is letting me do all kind of crazy stuff lol!
You still need to use handle animal - that is the skill to get an animal to do tricks.

A hunting cat is a leopard or a cheetah - look at the Bestiary 1 entries for those animals, they have Int 2. Also look at this HeroLab thread about Hunting Cats: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?p=95956 When I add a Hunting Cat to a HeroLab character (through the "other" tab) it gives me an additional "hero" in the dashboard which is a Leopard with an Int of 2. Under the "Feats" tab you cab add the Hunting trick. As the HL forum post states, you need to have the Bestiary 1 package for this.

You're mentioning increases in animal intelligence at higher levels - these are for the "animal companion" class feature that primarily druids and rangers get (Cavalier mounts are classed as animal companions too) and some other class archetypes provide an animal companion. You are buying a "pet" for your barbarian, intelligence doesn't increase as you increase in level because it is not an animal companion.

I think that is where your confusion lies - the difference between an animal companion (class feature) and buying an animal as a "pet".

Note: even druids and rangers have to make a handle animal check based on the tricks that their animal companion knows. However, they get a +4 bonus to handle animal checks with their animal companion and a handle animal check (get it to perform one of it's tricks) is free action for animal companions (because of the "Link" animal companion special ability) - as this is a DC 10 check, it is normally an automatic pass (a natural 1 is not an automatic failure on a skill check roll) for someone with an animal companion (unless they have no ranks in the skill). Handle animal companion +4, 1 rank of class skill +4 (+1 and +3 for it being a class skill) gives a +8, just a +1 from Charisma or another rank in handle animal will give a +9 to handle animal which will always result in a minimum of 10 (1 on the dice + 9) so a DC 10 check will always succeed - no need to roll for it.

Unfortunately, we can't view the thread you're referring too. But, the skill entry for "Handle Animal" in the rulebook is clear that even a wild animal raised from birth to be domesticated needs to be taught tricks and the handle animal skill used to get the animal to perform the tricks. Even classes with an animal companion class feature (with the "link" ability) have to teach their companions tricks and use the handle animal skill.

Any background story that relates to an animal understanding it's master's commands are still covered by tricks and the handle animal skill.

Of course, a GM can wave the use of handle animal in a home game for whatever reason the player can come up with, but not for PFS. In your example, the player is essentially getting much more than an animal companion for 100gp (the cost of a hunting cat), without having to use handle animal to issue commands.

Please keep in mind that there are a lot of threads on the Paizo forums that are filled with posts that are purely individual opinions and are not rule adjudications.

Trueshots
December 20th, 2012, 16:46
Your basically telling me that if he wants a pet that's is gonna be able to attack he needs cleric or druid(for the most part)?
Just buying a pet , the pet wont be able to attack without handle animal checks and I assume he will never be as powerful because he 3 levels behind I think. If you just buy a random pet are you even able to teach it tricks? I don't have the bestiary book so I apologize.

Trenloe
December 20th, 2012, 17:02
Your basically telling me that if he wants a pet that's is gonna be able to attack he needs cleric or druid(for the most part)?
Just buying a pet , the pet wont be able to attack without handle animal checks and I assume he will never be as powerful because he 3 levels behind I think. If you just buy a random pet are you even able to teach it tricks? I don't have the bestiary book so I apologize.
Please read the skill entry in the core rules for "Handle Animal". Link to d20pfsrd as Paizo.com is down:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/handle-animal

This describes the tricks that can be taught an animal. A hunting cat would have the attack trick (as part of the hunting package). Pay attention to the other tricks in the hunting package - and note which ones are not included ("stay" for example).

Everyone, including classes with the animal companion class feature MUST use handle animal to get an animal to do a trick.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that a pet is 3 levels behind? You are buying a hunting cat for 100gp: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/cat-great/leopard

They do not get experience and they can be taught up to 6 tricks (as they have Int 2).

So, yes, they will never be "powerful" - you are buying a pet for 100gp (this is the same cost as a chain shirt - which remains a chain shirt and doesn't increase in power), not a second character with levels and experience. If you want something that increases in power as your character does, play a class that has an animal companion.

Tinculin
December 20th, 2012, 17:42
For clarity:
A non pet class who buys a pet does not advance it.
This means that the leopard you buy at level 1 will have identical stats when your champion is level 20.
I.e it will never gain hit dice, attacks, attributes, feats etc.

Only classes with an animal companion advance their companions I.e druid, rangers, summons etc.

Skellan
December 20th, 2012, 18:22
They do not get experience and they can be taught up to 6 tricks (as they have Int 2).


Herolab is showing my leopard with 7 tricks - is it telling me wrong?

Trenloe
December 20th, 2012, 18:29
Herolab is showing my leopard with 7 tricks - is it telling me wrong?
I'm guessing the 7th is actually the "hunting" package (or whichever package you selected)?

Skellan
December 20th, 2012, 18:30
ah that's cool then

Trenloe
December 20th, 2012, 18:43
For clarity:
A non pet class who buys a pet does not advance it.
This means that the leopard you buy at level 1 will have identical stats when your champion is level 20.
I.e it will never gain hit dice, attacks, attributes, feats etc.

Only classes with an animal companion advance their companions I.e druid, rangers, summons etc.
Thanks for the succinct clarification. :)

FYI - summoners don't have animal companions , they have eidolons which are a completely different story.