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Gwaihir Scout
October 30th, 2012, 18:15
Session Day and Time and time zone: Friday November 2nd 7pm CDT
GMT Offset: -5
Duration: 4-5 hours
Fantasy Grounds license: Full
Chat type: Teamspeak (fgts.servegame.com)
Tiers and subtiers valid for this scenario: 1 only. May be replayed for credit with a new character.

Throwing this one out there. I ask that the regulars let players who haven't played these before or who don't have a character in the 3-5 level range get the first go.

Be sure to sign up both here and on the calendar page (http://www.fantasygrounds.com/calendar/?id=915).

If you don't know, there are three First Step scenarios, none of which need to played first, or at all. I'll decide which one we'll play later, so if you've got a request or have already played one of them with the character you're playing, let me know.

Please try to post your character here 24 hours in advance so I can look over it.

Rose Claymore
October 30th, 2012, 18:53
If you have a full (rather than an ultimate) license, then I need a player license, correct?

Gwaihir Scout
October 30th, 2012, 18:57
Correct. A Lite license is the minimum required to join.

RangerOps
October 30th, 2012, 20:41
I will be building a Half Elf Bard to partake in the festivities. Which module are we looking at playing? Would love to go thru all of these modules if things work out. My previous character fell to the blade in another campaign so this one will actually be able to do these modules before achieving level 2.

Skellan
October 30th, 2012, 21:20
RangerOps, the offer is still there if you want me to run something for you to help you get built back up.

Gwaihir Scout
October 30th, 2012, 21:45
I will be building a Half Elf Bard to partake in the festivities. Which module are we looking at playing? Would love to go thru all of these modules if things work out. My previous character fell to the blade in another campaign so this one will actually be able to do these modules before achieving level 2.

I'll take that as a vote for Part 1.

UltimateZing
October 30th, 2012, 22:00
Finally, a game not on Wednesday or Saturday! Count me in!

Manium
October 30th, 2012, 22:26
Not too sure if I'll have a work shift that day since I just started my job..
If not I'd love to play with my new Beastmorph Alchemist.

Attached is my .xml file, and I'll make another post to confirm if I can or can't play Friday.

EDIT: Friday should be OK. And Valerie would like to play First Steps Part 2 if possible :)

lachancery
October 31st, 2012, 01:46
I'll take that as a vote for Part 1.
Since I would like to join with my Tengu Cleric that did part 2 with you, I too would like to play part 1 this time.

@ RangerOps: Noticed you'd be playing a Dawnflower Dervish. My character is a cleric of Sarenrae, trained by Dawnflower Dervishes in Osirion. :)

lachancery
October 31st, 2012, 02:19
Here's the XML for MorQuesse, updated with the chronicle sheet from First Steps Part 2. (He's on the second scenario.)

kinevon
October 31st, 2012, 03:18
Since I have multiple PCs of higher level, put me in as an alternate.

Characters:
Carlos, Human Samurai (Sword Saint) 1 - 3836-05 - eligible for any of the First Steps scenarios
Gildebrando, Human Cleric of Desna 1 - 3836-09 - eligible for First Steps parts 1 & 3, played in 2 already

As a side note, I would refer to play Gildebrando, mainly because he only needs one more XP to reach 2nd level, while Carlos only has 1 XP.

XML files attached, actually HLFG files with the extension changed to XML.

Still not having any luck actually importing characters into FG. :(

Trenloe
October 31st, 2012, 04:13
XML files attached, actually HLFG files with the extension changed to XML.

Still not having any luck actually importing characters into FG. :(
Have you followed the instructions here: http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16961 under "Import from HeroLabs or PCGen"??

I've just tried Gildebrando and it works fine for me - renamed to .hlfg and imported using the character converter which is found: <FG app data directory>\utilities\CharacterConverter.exe

kinevon
October 31st, 2012, 06:18
Have you followed the instructions here: http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16961 under "Import from HeroLabs or PCGen"??

I've just tried Gildebrando and it works fine for me - renamed to .hlfg and imported using the character converter which is found: <FG app data directory>\utilities\CharacterConverter.exe
That seems to have done it, I keep forgetting that it requires a secondary program.

Bookmarked the page you linked, pinned the converter to the menu, so maybe I'll remember it in the future.

Thanks for your help.

UltimateZing
October 31st, 2012, 13:12
Here's the character I signed up with, had to figure out how to do all the uploading and everything

Trenloe
October 31st, 2012, 14:18
That seems to have done it, I keep forgetting that it requires a secondary program.

Bookmarked the page you linked, pinned the converter to the menu, so maybe I'll remember it in the future.

Thanks for your help.
No worries - glad you got it sorted and pinned for the future! :)

Gwaihir Scout
October 31st, 2012, 14:31
Hmm, looks like this was a good idea.

So far, Part 2 is out, and it's looking like Part 1. I think I'll do Part 3 in a week or two.

JohnD
October 31st, 2012, 15:58
Session Day and Time and time zone: Friday November 2nd 7pm CDT
GMT Offset: -5
Duration: 4-5 hours
Fantasy Grounds license: Full
Chat type: Teamspeak (fgts.servegame.com)
Tiers and subtiers valid for this scenario: 1 only. May be replayed for credit with a new character.

Throwing this one out there. I ask that the regulars let players who haven't played these before or who don't have a character in the 3-5 level range get the first go.

Be sure to sign up both here and on the calendar page (http://www.fantasygrounds.com/calendar/?id=915).

If you don't know, there are three First Step scenarios, none of which need to played first, or at all. I'll decide which one we'll play later, so if you've got a request or have already played one of them with the character you're playing, let me know.

Please try to post your character here 24 hours in advance so I can look over it.
Hi - I've never played PFS before, but am reasonably experienced with 3.5e and have tons of experience with older iterations.

I do have a PFS number, but not at hand right now since I'm at work; can post tonight. :ninja:

I don't mind playing whatever the group needs; right now that looks like either a Rogue (preferable) or a Wizard of some kind, probably will be Human if accepted.

Have applied on the game page.

RangerOps
October 31st, 2012, 17:05
Dearest MorQuesse,

I share good greating with you and hope to meet you soon. I look forward to the adventures our people shall muster together to rid this place of those who lack remorse for their ill deeds. Mayhap we will find convert's too our Lady Sarenrae. To this end I truly look forward to your pressence of truest faith in our trying moments. I sit here after sharpening my Scimitar and mentally prepare for those it must be used on to deliver Sarenrae'a swift justice when they fail to redeem themselves!

I shall work diligently to fill our group with cheer during our travels as well as our most trying times. Your words shall prehaps lead our group to seek Lady Sarenrae's guidance in our path and mayhap they will see her divine path and choose to follow it. If all else when they feel the gifts of her divine warmth delivered thru you, her divine vessel, during their most fearfull and bloody moments when their bodies and souls are weakened, they will see her mercy and gifts to those deserving and adjusts their paths to her walk.

I look forward to sharing stories of victories and learning more fro myour studies as her vessel of knowledge and going forth and delivering the songs and stories of our achievements thru her gifts. I invite you to join me in dance each morning and give praise to the rising sun (dawnflower).

Your faithful companion,

Raptor, Minstrel of the Pharaoh's

Gwaihir Scout
October 31st, 2012, 18:32
Hi - I've never played PFS before, but am reasonably experienced with 3.5e and have tons of experience with older iterations.

I do have a PFS number, but not at hand right now since I'm at work; can post tonight. :ninja:

I don't mind playing whatever the group needs; right now that looks like either a Rogue (preferable) or a Wizard of some kind, probably will be Human if accepted.

Have applied on the game page.

You're in. Play what you want to play, because you never know who you'll be playing with next time. Both rogue and wizard will find things to do, but aren't necessary.

kinevon
November 1st, 2012, 01:55
You're in. Play what you want to play, because you never know who you'll be playing with next time. Both rogue and wizard will find things to do, but aren't necessary.
Some minor advice:

Get the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play (currently v4.2) from the Paizo web site.

For your first game, you can get by using the Paizo PRD, also accessible from their web site. If you decide you like Pathfinder, the Core Rulebook is the place to start.

If you decide to start picking up other books from Paizo for Pathfinder, the Additional Resources page, linked from the Pathfinder Society (PFS) area on Paizo's boards, lists out what is PFS legal for each resource.

PFS uses a 20 point buy, which uses a slightly different point cost chart than 3.5 had, so be careful of that, 20 points is actually about equal to 25 under 3.5.

Overall, PFS is not the PC killer that LG was, so no need to go for a 20 in your primary stat, nor a minimum of 14 in your Con, although dumping Con is not a good idea, either. No need to be a one-trick pony, having some skills and combat capability never hurts.

PFS uses factions, and all PCs need to belong to one of the ten factions, but not for the First Steps scenarios, which serve as a fairly good introduction to all the factions, if you play in all 3 of the scenarios.

Two traits are standard for PFS PCs, although, if you play the First Step scenarios first, you can leave one open for a Faction trait. Basic traits are available from the free web enhancement on Paizo's web site. (Yes, a lot of my comments lead you back there)

PF feat gain is at a totally different rate than in 3.5, along with the Core classes being a nit more powerful than their 3.5 counterparts.

All PF PCs gain a character feat at every odd level.
Humans gain a bonus feat at first level, still.
Humans, Half-Elves and Half-Orcs get to put a +2 to a single stat, no penalties. Makes Half-Orcs, for one, a lot more flexible than in 3.5.
Fighters gain a bonus feat at first level, and every even numbered Fighter level past that.

So, all PF PCs start with at least one feat, and a Human Fighter actually starts with three.

Some of the power boosts to core classes:
Cleric: Channel Energy, an area of effect heal
Fighter: Level-based bonuses for armor and weapon use. A 7th level Fighter in Adamantine Plate can move as fast, Strength willing, as a 1st level Wizard in robes.
Paladin: Self-healing, area healing, special healing abilities that go along with the area healing, better Smites
Ranger: Terrain benefits, as well as favored enemies, among other things
Rogue: Talents, which are about he same strength as feats (indeed, some of the talents give feats)
Sorcerer: Bloodlines are standard, and can enhance flavor as well as power
Wizards: Schools are better, including the option to be a generalist.

Also, as mentioned, you don't have to play a Rogue or Wizard, but if you like those classes, you don't have to play something else, either.

As time passes, if you find you enjoy playing in PFS events, you will probably, like many of us, build up a stable of PCs of different classes, builds and level.

Myself, I have 14 active PFS PCs, ranging from 1st level with 1 XP (Carlos), up to 12th level with 33 XP (Callarek). Did I forget to mention that XP is handled differently? It is covered in the Guide. So is item purchase limits, illegal Core spells and feats, and how item upgrading is handled and allowed.

Sorry for running on so long.

Marty

JohnD
November 1st, 2012, 02:14
I think I've got my first PFS PC attached here.

I went with a Human Ranger and used the Hero Lab Pathfinder demo to create him and then entered everything into FG manually.

lachancery
November 1st, 2012, 14:04
I only realized yesterday that bite (natural attack) is considered a light weapon, thus covered by Weapon Finesse. Here's MorQuesse's updated character XML.

@ Gwaihir Scout: At the beginning of the scenario, I would like to use my 2 PP to get a Wand of Cure Light Wounds. I have also added it to the character sheet.

Gwaihir Scout
November 1st, 2012, 14:25
RangerOps, since kinevon agreed to be an alternate, your wife can have the 6th slot. I'd like both of your characters posted here by tonight if you can; this gives me a chance to familiarize myself with any unusual abilities ahead of time.

RangerOps
November 1st, 2012, 17:31
I will have them here this evening.

RangerOps
November 2nd, 2012, 00:15
Raptor the Bard. Let the singing and dancing begin!

lachancery
November 2nd, 2012, 02:08
Raptor the Bard. Let the singing and dancing begin!
Hey RangerOps. I have been toying with the idea of converting my Tengu Cleric to a Dawnflower Dervish, so I was curious how you had built yours.

I noticed two things I am not sure about:

- Battle Dance replaces the standard Bardic Performance of the Bard (see the last line of the description you pasted). So you don't get both the dance and the normal performances impacting others.

- I'm not sure that Skill Focus (Perform) affect multiple sub-types of performances. My understanding, and I might be wrong, is that each perform (like each knowledge skill) is a different skill and would require a different skill focus feat. I'm not sure you'd still want to take perform (sing) anyway, once you factor in the first point above.

I've attached, for your own curiosity, the Dawnflower Dervish idea I was toying with. Feel free to compare and share your thoughts, ideas, feedback. :) My long term goal with this character would be to get the duelist prestige class.

RangerOps
November 2nd, 2012, 03:12
it said in the bottom of Battle Dance "This ability alters the standard bardic performance ability"....not replaces it.

lachancery
November 2nd, 2012, 03:28
it said in the bottom of Battle Dance "This ability alters the standard bardic performance ability"....not replaces it.
Wow! Twice humbled in the same evening... Time to go get me some old age reading glasses. You are right, as I re-read this, it does imply that the Dawnflower Dervish also has the other standard bard performances. This makes this archetype even more fantastic (than it was in my mind until a few minutes ago)!

Thanks for pointing this out. :)

Blackfoot
November 2nd, 2012, 04:24
Doesn't alter mean.. change? ie.. it's not the same anymore? I was pretty sure the dervish got his battle dance instead of the standard bardic performance.

Riade
November 2nd, 2012, 04:39
Triel the rockin' druid with her snowy kitty

Gwaihir Scout
November 2nd, 2012, 04:40
Triel the rockin' druid with her snowy kitty
Thanks, was just about to ask for that.

Trenloe
November 2nd, 2012, 04:44
It's not clear, I know - but the last paragraph of the Battle Dance section states:
Dervish dancers gain the inspire courage, inspire greatness, and inspire heroics bardic performance types as battle dances, but these only provide benefit to the dervish dancer himself.
So, what this means is that the bard still has their normal Bardic performances (countersong, distraction fascinate, etc.), except "Inspire" performances (courage, greatness and heroics) are replaced with the equivalent battle dance.

Gwaihir Scout
November 2nd, 2012, 06:30
Nothing like a computer crash eating a long, half-written post to make you...testy. Please keep that in mind as you read this.

UltimateZing - Not all of Quintaro's items transferred properly and are completely blank, including his armor.

Lachancery - MorQuesse is carrying too much and has medium encumbrance. This means a 20' move speed, a max Dex AC bonus of +3 when you should have +4, and a -3 skill check penalty. A handy haversack (2K gp) or muleback cords (1K gp, shoulder slot) will fix this.

Manium - Valerie is also in medium encumbrance, but you only forgot to reduce the speed and I see you learned Ant Haul. Are you going to get Thieves' Tools and what's all the charisma for?

JohnD - Looking good. You forgot to add your class bonus to saves. You're also in medium encumbrance, but only just. Leave the rations at your pad for this one.

RangerOps - Unfortunately, the drow-blooded racial trait is not legal for PFS, as all drow on Golarion are evil. I don't see the second trait you got for the Additional Traits feat. I see a faction trait, a magic trait, and a race trait. If you weren't aware, you don't need to take two traits to get any use out of Adopted. You can immediately pick a free race trait once you grab that one. Also, I really want to hear how drunk that dwarf had to be to adopt a half-elf.

Riade - I think you've got the favored class bonus to both HP and skill ranks; it's one or the other. You're not proficient with that longbow and scimitar you've got, so it's a -4 to use them. Losing them should put you back under light encum--oh, forget it, you're only half a pound over. Also, I like the Ulfen druid idea. You forgot to give your tiger its natural armor bonus. You also have to select which tricks you've taught it (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/handle-animal). You get seven.

Looking in good shape for this scenario.

Oh, and Kinevon, you're the alternate if someone no-shows, if you like.

Manium
November 2nd, 2012, 07:25
Manium - Valerie is also in medium encumbrance, but you only forgot to reduce the speed and I see you learned Ant Haul. Are you going to get Thieves' Tools and what's all the charisma for?

Yeah, I'll probably be using Ant Haul fairly early on to negate the speed reduction if it comes to it.

And her high charisma is because I'll be doing a bit more roleplaying with her. Since she is a female character I'll be using in-game chat intensively for my in-character scenes. And since she's rather short for an elf (5'7") she makes up for it with her intelligence and charisma, or rather, wit and charm.

Thieves' Tool eh? Yeah, I'll pick up a pair at the start of the session if you don't mind :D and we can add it to the purchases on the chronicle.

kinevon
November 2nd, 2012, 07:28
Oh, and Kinevon, you're the alternate if someone no-shows, if you like.
Alternate is fine, just let me know with as much warning as possible. ;)

UltimateZing
November 2nd, 2012, 12:35
UltimateZing - Not all of Quintaro's items transferred properly and are completely blank, including his armor.

Armor was not listed on his inventory page, and I had to manually add Lucerne Hammer, since it's out of the advanced player's guide. Outside of that, I don't know which items would be off.

Blackfoot
November 2nd, 2012, 13:23
Riade - I think you've got the favored class bonus to both HP and skill ranks; it's one or the other. You're not proficient with that longbow and scimitar you've got, so it's a -4 to use them. Losing them should put you back under light encum--oh, forget it, you're only half a pound over. Also, I like the Ulfen druid idea. You forgot to give your tiger its natural armor bonus. You also have to select which tricks you've taught it (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/handle-animal). You get seven.
Druids are proficient with scimitar... and I thought she had some sort of trait that gave her longbow.. but I don't see it on her sheet.

Edit: Right.. she's Andoran.. Hunter's Eye gives her proficiency with the longbow.. assuming she has that one.. although no traits were listed on her sheet when she played in my game.. her character was kind of a rush job... so there might well be a mistake.

RangerOps
November 2nd, 2012, 13:35
Blackfoot has it correct. I recall her getting exited about the longbow usage becuase she adores killing things from afar.

Blackfoot
November 2nd, 2012, 13:41
I'm trying to figure out what her other trait was now... I do remember we were scrambling to finish this character 5 minutes before gametime.
If she has a weight issue.. she should probably not take her courtier's outfit along with her on the mission. :)
...
I don't see anything on her sheet that would suggest what that trait was.. there are plenty of great options for her though.
...
EDIT: She looks ok weight wise... 47.5/58 for a 14 str... but her favored class bonus does seem to be messed up.

lachancery
November 2nd, 2012, 13:48
Lachancery - MorQuesse is carrying too much and has medium encumbrance. This means a 20' move speed, a max Dex AC bonus of +3 when you should have +4, and a -3 skill check penalty. A handy haversack (2K gp) or muleback cords (1K gp, shoulder slot) will fix this.
Ah, look at that! Don't know why we didn't pick it up during the first scenario. I'll replace MorQuesse's Studded Leather with a Padded Armor until he has enough gold pieces to buy a mithral shirt. That'll bring him down under light encumbrance.

RangerOps
November 2nd, 2012, 13:54
RangerOps - Unfortunately, the drow-blooded racial trait is not legal for PFS, as all drow on Golarion are evil.

I dont understand this though. If you can have Tieflings (1/2 bloods of evil outsiders) and 1/2 Orcs (Evil) why cant a half elf have half drow blood lineage? This makes no sense in the design of the society that I can see. Where can I gain insight into the decision of this for future players wanting to use this. I think it needs to be brought to the council!

Blackfoot
November 2nd, 2012, 13:55
I dont understand this though. If you can have Tieflings (1/2 bloods of evil outsiders) and 1/2 Orcs (Evil) why cant a half elf have half drow blood lineage? This makes no sense in the design of the society that I can see. Where can I gain insight into the decision of this for future players wanting to use this. I think it needs to be brought to the council!
Because they said so. All the drow stuff is not legal for PFS play.
You can find more information about this on the paizo site... there is a list there of available resources and things that are 'no nos'. Also lots of discussion on the boards.. although they are not generally as kindly there as the folks here.

Half-Elves: all alernate racial traits except drow-blooded and drow magic are legal for play; all racial subtypes except drow-descended are legal for play; all favored class options are legal for play; all racial archetypes except wild caller are legal for play. For the bonded witch archetype, energy siege shot is replaced with resounding shot (Advanced Player's Guide 238) at 10th level and arcane cannon is replaced with fire brand (Advanced Player's Guide 222) at 14th level under the bonded item weapon entry; all half-elven equipment, magic items, and spells are legal for play; all half-elven feats except Half-Drow Paragon are legal for play.

Gwaihir Scout
November 2nd, 2012, 14:31
Druids are proficient with scimitar... and I thought she had some sort of trait that gave her longbow.. but I don't see it on her sheet.

Edit: Right.. she's Andoran.. Hunter's Eye gives her proficiency with the longbow.. assuming she has that one.. although no traits were listed on her sheet when she played in my game.. her character was kind of a rush job... so there might well be a mistake.

Whoops. Saw the longbow problem, went and checked the other weapons, and missed scimitar. I also somehow missed the lack of traits. Fatigue apparently also gives a -2 to Perception.

RangerOps
November 2nd, 2012, 15:07
Indeed someone has posted it. Where did you find it so I can save places liek this as favorites for researching?

Being a newcomer, i'm adapting to the Pathfinder books. It is in the interest of better play to seek out opportunities for improvement. This is why I ask how to bring something to the designers of the PFS.

Being born 1/2 drow (1/2 elf) should feasibly allow you access to the drow blooded line. I think this should be revisted(if it was visited since the adjustment of allowing spawn of evil races to be played). It is my opinion if they allow 1/2 blooded outsiders of evil denizens to be played they should consider allowing a mere trait of an evil race (drow) to be accessed if its part of the lineage of a race authorized for play. You will not find me disputing a ingame DM call as a norm. But you will find me seeking resources and questioning sources on message boards to make sure something is not being overlooked.

I show no disrespect and expect none for my inquiries.

Blackfoot
November 2nd, 2012, 15:09
You aren't actually allowed to be half-drow in PFS play is the issue.

Check out this link.. and the other related links.. there is also more info in the FAQ.

Additional Resources (http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/about/additionalResources)

Gwaihir Scout
November 2nd, 2012, 15:19
The problem is the setting. In Golarion, drow are, well, magically corrupted somehow in a way that goes beyond simple genetics. I can't give any more info since I haven't played Second Darkness. The options are available in the rulebooks because they're setting-neutral, and other settings have no problems with drow that decide to be good.

Blackfoot
November 2nd, 2012, 15:20
There's no issue with questioning rules.. but there's not much we can do about them.

I'm not sure what their specific issue is with Drow... other than them being an 'evil' race... but most of the races in the ARG are restricted. Why don't they allow catfolk or grippli? It really is their option... seems like they are controlling the flow of these into play for their own malevolent purposes.. muhaha... err.. or something.

RangerOps
November 2nd, 2012, 16:16
It's not clear, I know - but the last paragraph of the Battle Dance section states:
So, what this means is that the bard still has their normal Bardic performances (countersong, distraction fascinate, etc.), except "Inspire" performances (courage, greatness and heroics) are replaced with the equivalent battle dance.

This is how I read it:

Example to the Bard class list Table: Archetypes / Alternate Class Features (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard) it does not "C" change countersong, distraction, fascinate, inspire competence, suggestion, soothing performance, Frightening toon, mass suggestion, deadly performance, cantrips, Versatile performance, well versed, jack of all trades.

It does "C" Change:

Weapon/Armor (scimitar usage in lieu of Rapier and whip)
Bardic Performance Core Mechanic (changes the core to grant A Dawnflower dervish the trained in the use of the Perform skill, especially dance, to create magical effects on himself to enter a Battle Dance that inspires the Bard only*)
Inspire Courage (see above bardic performance core mechanic for the chance allowing the battle dance to effect the bard with x2 benefit)
Inspire Greatness (see above bardic performance core mechanic for the chance allowing the battle dance to effect the bard with x2 benefit)
Inspire Heroics (see above bardic performance core mechanic for the chance allowing the battle dance to effect the bard with x2 benefit)

*the changes allow the Dawnflower Dervish Bard to gain trained benefit of the Perform skill, especially dance, and utilize this perform skill for the above Inspired skills of courage, greatness, and heroics to benefit themselves. They do not remove the ability to Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness or Inspire Heroics in others utilizing any other performance skill the Bard possesses (and it does not further say the Bard is unable to use the dance to do this: The Batrd just can not use the Perform (dance) "battle" itself to inspire them and inspire himself. I would say he could still do Perform (dance) the waltz or the jig to inspire others. (This last sentence above on the dance is a subjective part IMHO).

"This ability alters the standard bardic performance ability" is the entry in the Dawnflower Dervish character class desicription. It does not imply the loss of Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness or Inspire Heroics in others. I think if read with focus on Battle Dance wording it facilitates my interpretation.

This is a great conversation!!

Blackfoot
November 2nd, 2012, 16:20
Keep in mind that you never gain an added benefit without paying a price.

Blackfoot
November 2nd, 2012, 16:24
Battle Dance: A dervish dancer is trained in the use of the Perform skill, especially dance, to create magical effects on himself. This works like bardic performance, except the dervish dancer only affects himself, and does not need to be able to see or hear his own performance. Battle dancing is treated as bardic performance for the purposes of feats, abilities, effects, and the like that affect bardic performance, except that battle dancing does not benefit from the Lingering Performance feat or any other ability that allows a bardic performance to grant bonuses after it has ended. Battle dancing benefits apply only when the bard is wearing light or no armor. Like bardic performance, it cannot be maintained at the same time as other performance abilities.

Starting a battle dance is a move action, but it can be maintained each round as a free action. Changing a battle dance from one effect to another requires the dervish dancer to stop the previous performance and start the new one as a move action. Like a bard, a dervish dancer's performance ends immediately if he is killed, paralyzed, stunned, knocked unconscious, or otherwise prevented from taking a free action each round. A dervish dancer cannot perform more than one battle dance at a time. At 10th level, a dervish dancer can start a battle dance as a swift action instead of a move action.

Dervish dancers gain the inspire courage, inspire greatness, and inspire heroics bardic performance types as battle dances, but these only provide benefit to the dervish dancer himself.The last piece there really tells the tale.

Oh.. and several of the other performances are replaced by battle dances..

Rain of Blows (Su): At 6th level, a dervish dancer can use his battle dance to speed up his attacks. When making a full attack action, he may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding, as though under the effects of a haste spell. He also gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and on Reflex saves. At 9th level, and every three bard levels thereafter, these bonuses increase by +1, to a maximum of +5 at 18th level. These bonuses do not stack with the haste spell. This ability replaces suggestion and mass suggestion.

Razor's Kiss (Su): At 8th level, a dervish dancer can use his battle dance to improve his weapons' critical range. All attacks he makes with manufactured weapons are treated as though he had the Improved Critical feat. Natural weapons and spells are not affected. This ability replaces dirge of doom.

Leaf on the Wind (Su): At 14th level, a dervish dancer can use his battle dance to evade attacks with unearthly grace and to shake off the effects of his wounds. Unlike other battle dances, leaf on the wind requires a standard action each round to start or maintain the performance. Each round it is maintained, including the first, the dervish dancer gains a +6 dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves. If wounded, he heals 1 hit point of damage per bard level. This ability replaces frightening performance.
It would appear that at least 'some' of the info on d20pfsrd is incorrect... since clearly suggestion and mass suggestion are 'replaced' and should have X's listed there... you can find more info about dervish dancer on the paizo discussion boards I imagine. Personally.. I've looked at it several times myself, and it looks cool... but because the text isn't very clear.. I've avoided it.
Actually.. they don't get versatile performance either... d20pfsrd has a bunch of mistakes here.
I 'think' the archetype is intended to be more of a stand-alone than a normal bard.

RangerOps
November 2nd, 2012, 16:39
Keep in mind that you never gain an added benefit without paying a price.

I agree, you must must be a worshiper of Sarenrae for this divine inspiration to affect you or lose Dawnflower Dervish and become a run of the mill Bard. -shudder-

Blackfoot
November 2nd, 2012, 16:40
Umm.. that is not a penalty.

Blackfoot
November 2nd, 2012, 16:42
Perhaps this discussion would be better suited to a 'character idea' thread or something... rules discussion.. whatever :)
Sorry to take over your game thread Gwaihir.

RangerOps
November 2nd, 2012, 16:42
It's not a gain/boon to be forced to follow a specific diety or lose all your Dawnflower abilities IMHO. I'm just say'n!!

Blackfoot
November 2nd, 2012, 16:46
It is not a significant penalty, to the extent of providing a whole group of 'extra' abilities.
In fact it is no real penalty at all since many classes already select a deity.
Generally speaking.. if you 'gain' an ability.. you 'lose' an ability... that's how they do it.

Selecting a specific deity usually provides no more benefit than to allow a character to purchase certain restricted abilities... it never gives them outright.

Besides.. Saranrae is a cool deity.. there's no penalty here at all. :)

Gwaihir Scout
November 2nd, 2012, 16:55
It's not a gain/boon to be forced to follow a specific diety or lose all your Dawnflower abilities IMHO. I'm just say'n!!

Yeah, you'd better be giving your enemies a chance at redemption or There Will Be Words.

Not sure if you guys have hammered out the performance thing, but here's (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mlu3?Inner-Sea-Guide-Dawnflower-Dervish-question#2) what one of the boss-men says about it:

In any case, the battle dance ability makes it so that the inspire courage, inspire greatness, and inspire heroics bardic performances are altered. A dawnflower dervish using these three specific applications of bardic performance only augments herself, not her allies (although she does gain twice the normal bonus, of course). All of her other bardic performances work normally.

AKA: Don't take this archetype if you want to be able to bolster your companions with inspire courage, inspire greatness, or inspire heroics. Take the archetype if you want to be a swashbuckler/dervish dancer type melee fighter.

JohnD
November 2nd, 2012, 17:17
All this talk makes my plain old Human Ranger look a little well... plain.

We'll see how it works out (thanks for the suggestions - didn't even realize I missed something).

Is it just me or is buying Pathfinder rule access in Hero Lab a one-way ticket to a massive bill? Does buying just the core rules for $20 a viable consideration?

Blackfoot
November 2nd, 2012, 17:22
Is it just me or is buying Pathfinder rule access in Hero Lab a one-way ticket to a massive bill? Does buying just the core rules for $20 a viable consideration?I'm not sure.
If you don't already own a copy of HL.. then the core rules can 'come with it'... I think I spent about $80 for the setup that I have.. but I have a bunch of stuff.
You won't be able to build a lot of options in there without add-ons... so to some extent.. the 'free' version is just as good... assuming you are just copying your info over from there to FG... but I find it very useful... it all kinda depends upon how much you'll be playing Pathfinder.

You can find many of these alternative abilities and additional traits on the Paizo PRD or on D20PFSRD. (I prefer the PRD because it is 'official')

Blackfoot
November 2nd, 2012, 17:28
OK.. wow. I just realized that I was completely talking out of my ear on the Dervish Dancer/Dawnflower Dervish thing.. I have zero idea what the structure is for Dawnflower Dervish... I was talking and quoting Dervish Dancer rules.
Sorry...
Is the Dawnflower Dervish a Saranrae version of Dervish Dancer?

hawkwind
November 2nd, 2012, 17:49
All this talk makes my plain old Human Ranger look a little well... plain.

We'll see how it works out (thanks for the suggestions - didn't even realize I missed something).

Is it just me or is buying Pathfinder rule access in Hero Lab a one-way ticket to a massive bill? Does buying just the core rules for $20 a viable consideration?
there is always PC Gen which is free. i use herolab in my home game and my players regularly find mistakes in hero lab

Gwaihir Scout
November 2nd, 2012, 18:22
All this talk makes my plain old Human Ranger look a little well... plain.

We'll see how it works out (thanks for the suggestions - didn't even realize I missed something).

Is it just me or is buying Pathfinder rule access in Hero Lab a one-way ticket to a massive bill? Does buying just the core rules for $20 a viable consideration?

I don't have Hero Lab either, thanks to the cost involved. I used the demo for a while until I figured out how character generation worked. You can make perfectly fine characters with just the core rules, but I've been using the extra books, so it's too much of a hurdle right now.

And plain ranger is awesome. There are archetypes to trade out your spellcasting for handling traps and other stuff like that, but it's hard to do better than the vanilla version.

RangerOps
November 2nd, 2012, 18:24
I posted to where he replied in that thread for a review clarification. I just dont believe the Bard would lose all his knowledge on how to inspire others with these same skills if used in a different performance to provide the benefit.

You gain self inspiration so long as you maintain the Deity Saranrae.

Loss: Forced adoption of one certain Diety, (restriction on other classes, skills and feats being utilized becuase of this deity)

Gain: Inspire self only with one type of performance you already possesses asa Bard with an x2 in 3 types of inspritational performances only.

hopefully I can gain some insight into the thoughts of how it becomes overpowerful. I think he was thinking of the other Dervish class Dervish Dancer as well:

"Dervish dancers gain the inspire courage, inspire greatness, and inspire heroics bardic performance types as battle dances, but these only provide benefit to the dervish dancer himself."

"When the Dawnflower dervish uses the inspire courage, inspire greatness, or inspire heroics bardic performance types as battle dances, these performance types only provide benefit to the Dawnflower dervish himself. All other types of bardic performance work normally (affecting the bard and his allies, or the bard’s enemies, as appropriate)."

Hence my comment on other types of performances like string or song.

Blackfoot
November 2nd, 2012, 19:51
JohnD, I know that the vanilla version of fighter seems like the best overall... vanilla ranger is probably quite well equipped.. all the variations do provide some individuality and variety... but the base classes (core rules) are all really good.

RangerOps... in James Jacobs (PF bigwig) post (the one that Gwaihir posted) he is very specific about the fact that Dawnflower Dervish is more of a swashbuckler than a support character, basically a bardic version of fighter rather than a 'helper' and that the performances listed do not work on others.. just on you.

RangerOps
November 2nd, 2012, 20:23
He is specific ...back in 2009. This was before a lot of things and changes. I dont have the entire list of changes to the books over the last 3 years but I figure its worth visiting.

Thanks. Reseached out his heirarchy previously so his word of rules is basically tight as a nats arse when he speaks of them. He has been in top role for pretty much every publishing of PF and PFS out there. I just seek to see if this class has been visited in 3 years and anything has changed from this 3 year old posting.

Thanks for peeking for me. I will go with whatever the DM in this campaign decides to allow when we play.

I need to focus my immediate attention on my trait change and the remaining trait that needs to be added to Raptor.

lachancery
November 2nd, 2012, 21:49
I will go with whatever the DM in this campaign decides to allow when we play.
Thanks for that; I was worrying tonight's game was going to turn into rules debates... Looking forward to playing in a few hours!

JohnD
November 2nd, 2012, 21:54
Same here. :)

Trenloe
November 2nd, 2012, 22:40
there is always PC Gen which is free. i use herolab in my home game and my players regularly find mistakes in hero lab
Yes, HeroLab has errors - PCGen has errors too - I used to get involved on the PCGen development side (only a part time, help-out-fixing-errors side - so no one important) so know a bit about both.

The key with using *any* character creator is to always check the character over yourself to make sure it has been created properly! Of course, for people new to Pathfinder this is difficult - but just checking over that traits, feats, class and racial abilities have been applied correctly is a good start.

PCGen is just about to release a new interface/UI with improvements (the 6.0 Release Candidate is available for download from the PCGen website) so it might be worth looking at if you haven't in a while.

Personally, I have invested the money in HeroLabs (probably around the same level as Blackfoot) - not just for PCs but I use it a lot for NPCs and customising monsters (I have the Bestiary data packs). The GM side is frequently something that is overlooked in these apps (PCGen does it too) - you can export the NPC as a statblock and use the creature parser to import them to Fantasy Grounds (although I currently haven't found a good statblock export from PCGen).

Gwaihir Scout
November 3rd, 2012, 00:52
Thanks for that; I was worrying tonight's game was going to turn into rules debates... Looking forward to playing in a few hours!

Don't worry, I learned that lesson quickly.

Server's up.

JohnD
November 3rd, 2012, 01:00
Can you check your alias... I keep getting "Could not connect to the host.".

RangerOps
November 3rd, 2012, 01:01
Here is the updated one with 3 traits and one faction trait.

ID #65186

1st module

I would like to purchase the silver masterwork dagger, the dice and cards as well as the flask of fireybomb thingy.

Can i keep the small hand puppet representing Lord Gyr and the fine comb with a long handle or was that considered items sold? I only want them for items from opponents defeated ...momento's?

Gwaihir Scout
November 3rd, 2012, 01:02
Hop on teamspeak. I'm checking the problem now.

Gwaihir Scout
November 3rd, 2012, 01:18
My IP address had changed, so I had to reconfigure the port. It's working now. Lachancery, where are you?

tahl_liadon
November 3rd, 2012, 01:24
is this one booked? mind if i hop in to observe for a bit?

if yes, plz shoot me im with logon info. thx.

Gwaihir Scout
November 3rd, 2012, 01:25
Sure. good luck nosy turtle

JohnD
November 3rd, 2012, 05:51
Thanks for the game tonight.

UltimateZing
November 3rd, 2012, 05:52
Indeed, great game!

Quintaro's faction is Qadira btw

lachancery
November 3rd, 2012, 18:22
All this talk makes my plain old Human Ranger look a little well... plain
Ironic how the plain old human ranger earned himself MVP award last night with his two killing critical blows on the toughest opponents...

And thanks again to RangerOps for curing me one round before dying; that was a close call and a humble reminder! :ninja:

lachancery
November 3rd, 2012, 18:25
@ Gwaihir Scount:

Summary of MorQuesse's transactions for his chronicle sheet:

Purchase wand of cure light wounds (-2 PP)
Sale of studded leather (+12gp)
Purchase of padded armor (-5gp)
Purchase of 2 potions of cure light wounds (-100gp)

Gwaihir Scout
November 3rd, 2012, 18:30
1st level potions are 50 gp each. 1st level scrolls are 25 gp each.

JohnD
November 3rd, 2012, 18:30
Ironic how the plain old human ranger earned himself MVP award last night with his two killing critical blows on the toughest opponents...
A little luck never hurts! :)

I've got my eye on that MW chain shirt... not sure if I'll be able to afford it (assuming the others aren't magical at this point).

Gwaihir Scout
November 3rd, 2012, 20:34
Here is the updated one with 3 traits and one faction trait.

ID #65186

1st module

I would like to purchase the silver masterwork dagger, the dice and cards as well as the flask of fireybomb thingy.

Can i keep the small hand puppet representing Lord Gyr and the fine comb with a long handle or was that considered items sold? I only want them for items from opponents defeated ...momento's?

Woah, almost missed this. Not a good idea to edit old posts with new questions.


Always Available Items
You may always purchase the following items or equipment so long as you’re in an appropriately sized settlement (see above).
• All basic armor, gear, items, and weapons from Chapter 6 of the Core Rulebook, including Small and Large-sized items. This does not include equipment made from dragonhide, but it does include equipment made from the other special materials, such as alchemical silver and cold iron (see the Special Materials section on page 154 of the Core Rulebook). All mundane (completely nonmagical) weapons, armor, equipment, and alchemical gear found in any other source that is legal for play are considered always available.
• +1 weapons (2,000 gp + 300 for the masterwork weapon cost + item cost)
• +1 armor (1,000 gp + 150 for the masterwork armor cost + item cost)
• +1 shields (1,000 gp + 150 for the masterwork armor cost + item cost)
• Potions and oils of 0- or 1st-level spells at caster level 1st (50 gp or less)
• Scrolls of 0- or 1st-level spells at caster level 1st (50 gp or less)
• Wayfinder (50% discount—250 gp; see page 299 of The
Inner Sea World Guide)
Beyond the gear noted above, your character is restricted
to purchasing additional items from his accumulated
Chronicle sheets, or by capitalizing on his fame within
his faction. Weapons, armor, equipment, magic items and
so on that are outside of these lists are not available for
purchase at any time.

So the silver masterwork dagger is always available (costs 322 gp). Likewise, JohnD, the MW chain shirt is AA and costs 250 gp. The puppet and the comb do not have a listed cost and they are not items in any of the books, so go ahead and keep them. The loaded dice, marked cards and alchemist's fire are normal items you can buy. In fact, it's a good idea to always have a flask or two of alchemist's fire.

And how'd you know who the puppet represented? You been witholding information? :P

Gwaihir Scout
November 3rd, 2012, 23:43
OK, done.

JohnD, I'm reporting you as the Grand Lodge faction temporarily. When you finish the three First Steps scenarios or play a non-First Steps scenario, you'll have to pick one of the ten factions to join. Shoot me a note then and I'll update it.

Here's the link to a Dropbox folder: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p2fsp0dy3kmhhtc/rJBAwS4xtQ

Check everything, let me know if you want to change your purchases, and I'll sign 'em.

JohnD
November 4th, 2012, 04:16
I'd like to buy the MW Chain Shirt for 250 gp and 2 flasks of alchemists fire. Will carry the rest of the gp forward and sell my suit of studded leather armor.

lachancery
November 4th, 2012, 14:31
I have moved the bard/dawnflower dervish discussion to this new thread (http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17643)

Gwaihir Scout
November 4th, 2012, 16:48
I'd like to buy the MW Chain Shirt for 250 gp and 2 flasks of alchemists fire. Will carry the rest of the gp forward and sell my suit of studded leather armor.

Done. Filler text.

lachancery
November 4th, 2012, 19:04
@ Gwaihir Scout, I have a PFS rule question about equipment purchases, if you please:

In the "Always Available Items" section of the chronicle, it says that all mundane (completely non-magical) armors, including those made of special material (except dragonhide) are considered always available. On the first page of the chronicle sheet, it says that Fame Points greather or equal to 9 limits to 1,500gp max item cost...

Based on this, will MorQuesse need to have completed 5 scenarios (10 Fame Points) before he can buy & use a mithral shirt worth 1,100gp? Because it's a mundane armor, it will be always available to buy too?

A related question further down that path:

I read that a masterwork item can be "upgraded" to a +1 item by paying the difference in costs between the two items. On p.155 of the Pathfinder CRB, it indicates that a mithral light armor is a +1,000gp cost, and on p.461, it shows the base cost for a +1 armor to be 1,000gp. So a +1 mithral shirt would cost 100 (base chain shirt cost) + 1,000 (mithral, including masterwork) + 1,000 (+1 bonus), for a total of 2,100gp? So, upgrading to +1 armor will cost 1,000gp when doing it? And if I understood correctly the minimum Fame Point rules, it's only usable after 7 played scenarios (ie. 3rd level character)?

Thanks for the help.

Gwaihir Scout
November 4th, 2012, 19:31
@ Gwaihir Scout, I have a PFS rule question about equipment purchases, if you please:

In the "Always Available Items" section of the chronicle, it says that all mundane (completely non-magical) armors, including those made of special material (except dragonhide) are considered always available. On the first page of the chronicle sheet, it says that Fame Points greather or equal to 9 limits to 1,500gp max item cost...

Based on this, will MorQuesse need to have completed 5 scenarios (10 Fame Points) before he can buy & use a mithral shirt worth 1,100gp? Because it's a mundane armor, it will be always available to buy too?

Yes, it's mundane and is always available. Fame only affects magical items that are not on your chronicles or the always available list.


A related question further down that path:

I read that a masterwork item can be "upgraded" to a +1 item by paying the difference in costs between the two items. On p.155 of the Pathfinder CRB, it indicates that a mithral light armor is a +1,000gp cost, and on p.461, it shows the base cost for a +1 armor to be 1,000gp. So a +1 mithral shirt would cost 100 (base chain shirt cost) + 1,000 (mithral, including masterwork) + 1,000 (+1 bonus), for a total of 2,100gp? So, upgrading to +1 armor will cost 1,000gp when doing it? And if I understood correctly the minimum Fame Point rules, it's only usable after 7 played scenarios (ie. 3rd level character)?

Thanks for the help.

You're right about the cost, but +1 armor is always available. If it was some other magic item worth 2100, you would need 13 Fame before you could buy it.

Blackfoot
November 4th, 2012, 19:36
I don't believe you can change materials (normal to mithral) as part of an upgrade... if that's what you are essentially asking. Basically that would be starting over.

You CAN dump your starter stuff as part of a 1st level rebuild though.. and refit yourself at full value... and there are chronicles that offer a mithral shirt as part of the loot.

Mithral is not dragonhide.. and is a special material... but isn't magical...
It seems to read that you would be able to buy a basic (no plus) mithral shirt as always available.

lachancery
November 4th, 2012, 22:14
For the upgrade, I was asking about going from mithral shirt to mithral shirt +1.

I was also asking confirmation that mithral shirt was on the Always Available list, which you are also saying below.

What about usability? Can a level 1 wear a mithral shirt based on its value (the Fame Point question)?


I don't believe you can change materials (normal to mithral) as part of an upgrade... if that's what you are essentially asking. Basically that would be starting over.

You CAN dump your starter stuff as part of a 1st level rebuild though.. and refit yourself at full value... and there are chronicles that offer a mithral shirt as part of the loot.

Mithral is not dragonhide.. and is a special material... but isn't magical...
It seems to read that you would be able to buy a basic (no plus) mithral shirt as always available.

Gwaihir Scout
November 4th, 2012, 22:20
Fame only affects what your faction will sell to you. It has nothing to do with what you can use.

lachancery
November 5th, 2012, 01:41
Fame only affects what your faction will sell to you. It has nothing to do with what you can use.
Thanks! Somehow, I had missed your post before Blackfoot's...

kinevon
November 5th, 2012, 01:55
Given the Always Available list, if you somehow wound up with the requisite money, you could buy a +1 Adamantine Full Plate suit at character generation.

Gadreun
November 5th, 2012, 08:43
Hi all - just signed up for PFS - really looking forward to getting my feet wet - i have just realised i cant make a character until i buy a license - but i have a concern about the availability of PFS games for my timezone - i have made contact with 1 PFS GM - Skellan - who has been VERY helpful - are there any other GMs who host PFS games from level 1 who can operate to suit my timezone? I am GMT +13 - New Zealand - if there are several GMs im likely to invest in a license


I guess i should add im VERY keen to become a full fledged member and will be getting a license (i love making characters) even if i have to get up at unusual hours to play in the weekend! thats how much i love RPGs!! But i was just fishing to see what GM from compatible timezones exist - for example with Skellan we live n opposite sides of the globe so his 8pm Saturday is my 9am Sunday - im open to playing any hours on my sat and sun which is everyone elses fri and sat.

Trenloe
November 5th, 2012, 08:49
Hi all - just signed up for PFS - really looking forward to getting my feet wet - i have just realised i cant make a character until i buy a license - but i have a concern about the availability of PFS games for my timezone - i have made contact with 1 PFS GM - Skellan - who has been VERY helpful - are there any other GMs who host PFS games from level 1 who can operate to suit my timezone? I am GMT +13 - New Zealand - if there are several GMs im likely to invest in a license
Most GMs are in US or UK timezones. But, most of them run games on a weekend, so you can usually get to play during the weekend even with the big time difference (in a lot of respects it works in your favour if games are being ran on a Friday or Saturday). We have a couple of PFS players in Australia, but none have taken the step to GMing PFS games yet...

Gadreun
November 5th, 2012, 08:59
Thanks Trenloe - i must admit it does seem ok for me - funny thing is im very similar to John D in that i have DM/GM'd since 1979 and i can see that an ultimate license is where ill eventually be heading and i will be keen to GM at some stage...but being a good GM is only part of it...i need to nail down using/utilising the system and becoming ofey with the FG nuances - that will take some time im sure

Gwaihir Scout
November 8th, 2012, 03:22
OK, apparently everyone's OK with the chronicles since I'm not hearing anything. They're signed now. Download them again, because they're not valid unless signed.

lachancery
November 8th, 2012, 04:42
OK, apparently everyone's OK with the chronicles since I'm not hearing anything. They're signed now. Download them again, because they're not valid unless signed.
Ooops, sorry, didn't realize you were waiting for a definite "Yay!". Mine was good, thanks!

JohnD
November 8th, 2012, 05:33
OK, apparently everyone's OK with the chronicles since I'm not hearing anything. They're signed now. Download them again, because they're not valid unless signed.
Great - downloaded thanks! :)

Manium
November 8th, 2012, 07:14
Oh shoot, sorry for not confirming. My chronicle looks perfect, thank you.
I don't think mine has been signed yet though..

Gwaihir Scout
November 9th, 2012, 02:29
Looks like I'm not going to be able to run another one until after Thanksgiving. I won't have enough advance notice to be sure I have a free block of time.