Lite license ruleset and functionality

[Hillsy7]

Hi there.

I'm currently recruiting for a game and sometimes said they'd be willing to buy a lite license but not a full one a they have no interest in hosting a game. In the product details the lite license does not state it supports the 4e rules.

So in practical terms what would happen if a lite license connects to my full license 4e game and if this causes problems are there fixes in place our does it always require a full license?

Thanks

[Ikael]

in FG you actually have two different things that you have combined here:
* Fantasy Grouds II application/program
* Ruleset (4E, 3.5E, Savage Worlds etc) that's used in Fantasy Grounds II

When your purchase FG Lite, Full or Ultimate license you're purchaing the FG application itself. FG application (if with full or ultimate license) can be used to host games using any existing ruleset that you have. This is why there is no statement that license X FG supports 4E. FG Lite license can only be used to join in existing games as player and in that case when player connect, the FG application will automatically download the ruleset from host and will use it. So practically only the host (GM) must have used ruleset, others (players) just need to have FG application (with any license version) and nothing else.

So there _should_ not be issues for lite license users to join as players. Of course there can be connection issues (internet connection fails) but anyone can resolve them by checking of FAQs. In addition FG community is usually very open to help you resolve encountered issues. Just ask if you encounter any :)

[damned]

*some* licenses do require players to purchase for full functionalisty - castles&crusades is one - you can play and as you point out all teh game mechanics auto-download from host game/license but the player references like spell books and equipment guides etc are only available to owners of the ruleset...
but as the OP did ask about 4E specifically i should just shut up :)

[Ikael]

Modules are actually the third aspect here, but since it was discussion about 4E, I deliberately skipped that part not to messup the mind too much :)

[Griogre]

To sum it up, the FG license determines who can host or run the game. The player with a Lite license can play in a game run by a GM with a Full or Ultimate License. If a license can host a game it can also join a game as a player. The application is the table you sit down at in a face to face game. It's the dice, character sheet and battle map.

The FG application comes with build in ruleset support for 4E and 3.5/Pathfinder. The ruleset tweaks FG to play a specific RPG. The person hosting the game is normally the only one who needs to get the ruleset - but there are exceptions like C&C. Rulesets are the game rules: nothing else. As you play 4E, it is exactly like the 4E Rules Compendium, all rules - with nothing about class abilities, powers, feats, races, etc.

Finally, there are modules. Modules hold game data. They can hold adventures with monsters and maps. They can also hold classes, races, and powers. Modules are the books, PDFs and adventure modules you have in a face to face game.

I run several 4E games and the majority of the players have Lite licenses. Make sure you check out the bundle prices in the store if your group is going to buy all at one time, they can be very good.

[Hillsy7]

Cheers guys, didn't want to hand out any mis-information.

[Zeus]

*some* licenses do require players to purchase for full functionalisty - castles&crusades is one - you can play and as you point out all teh game mechanics auto-download from host game/license but the player references like spell books and equipment guides etc are only available to owners of the ruleset...
but as the OP did ask about 4E specifically i should just shut up :)

Is this strictly true? As a GM hosting a game, player reference modules that the host has enabled should be accessible by the connected clients. This unless the modules have been created as Host only modules or not shared by the GM.

Isn't this setup identical to real world rpg games, in which it is usually the GM that procures the rulebooks, that are then made available on the table during game time for player reference. Most T&Cs for RPGs that I have played over the years tend to allow this under the Fair use policy.

Or does C&C force all game participants (GM and Players) to procure their own modules/rulebooks?

[Ikael]

Is this strictly true? As a GM hosting a game, player reference modules that the host has enabled should be accessible by the connected clients. This unless the modules have been created as Host only modules or not shared by the GM.

Isn't this setup identical to real world rpg games, in which it is usually the GM that procures the rulebooks, that are then made available on the table during game time for player reference. Most T&Cs for RPGs that I have played over the years tend to allow this under the Fair use policy.

Or does C&C force all game participants (GM and Players) to procure their own modules/rulebooks?

If module data has been declared to be client.xml, then it won't be shared to players even if host shares it. Client.xml can only be accessed if you have that module locally and host has declared that as available in your game. I bet that in C&C module datas are client.xml "typed". The other module data type common.xml is a type which will be delivered from host to player whenever host marks it available for players.

[Zeus]

If module data has been declared to be client.xml, then it won't be shared to players even if host shares it. Client.xml can only be accessed if you have that module locally and host has declared that as available in your game. I bet that in C&C module datas are client.xml "typed". The other module data type common.xml is a type which will be delivered from host to player whenever host marks it available for players.

I hear you and understand how FGII implements module access, I guess what I am saying is - there is a mechanism there to allow for the sharing of module data to players (during game time), if exploited.

[Griogre]

DrZeuss, the C&C ruleset was a very early DA one that doesn't use common modules (I don't think common modules were available when it was developed originally). The PH which is the main reference *is* a client module and only bundled with the ruleset. As it is not legal to distribute the client module then legally if the players want to get the PH they need to buy the ruleset.

Its a very similar legal situation to the 4E one, but with no DDI. However, as you point out you don't really need the PH library module to play C&C if you either already know the rules or own your own copy of the rules, you just may need to fill in the character sheet by hand. The Castle Keeper could also drop the spells on the character sheet for the player as well and help a player fill out his sheet using his copy of the PH, which might be what you were saying?

[Zeus]

DrZeuss, the C&C ruleset was a very early DA one that doesn't use common modules (I don't think common modules were available when it was developed originally). The PH which is the main reference *is* a client module and only bundled with the ruleset. As it is not legal to distribute the client module then legally if the players want to get the PH they need to buy the ruleset.

Its a very similar legal situation to the 4E one, but with no DDI. However, as you point out you don't really need the PH library module to play C&C if you either already know the rules or own your own copy of the rules, you just may need to fill in the character sheet by hand. The Castle Keeper could also drop the spells on the character sheet for the player as well and help a player fill out his sheet using his copy of the PH, which might be what you were saying?

Thanks for the clarification, I have never played or used the C&C ruleset. I am certainly not endorsing any illegal behaviour but must admit I am curious to understand the intent behind this restriction (particularly during game time).

Question: how do you play C&C around a real world game table? Does every player *own* their own personal copies of the rulebooks and bring them for use at the table? Or (as I have always experienced) do the players have access to rulebooks (that the group either collectively or individually own) during game for simple reference/lookup/character levelling etc. etc.

As long as the access is limited to 'only during a hosted game', and players do not have ongoing/permanent access to the data outside of the hosted games, I would have thought this reasonable under the terms of fair use. Has anyone ever explored this scenario by asking the Publishers/Owners of the IP, if this would be deemed acceptable? In other words petition to get the C&C PH module changed to a common.xml type.