View Full Version : Can/should C&C be an extension of rather than it's own ruleset?

June 16th, 2012, 21:28
It's getting rather depressing to see other rulesets marching on with new functionality while C&C looks to languish indefinitely. New FG release only hold a handful of new functionality for my games, while 3.5 and 4e get new robust and useful additions.

At some point I noticed a post from Moon or ddavidson suggesting that when rulesets are developed as extensions of another well supported ruleset, then they leverage much of that development effort. Seeing as how C&C is a much simplified version of d20, couldn't it be implemented as an extension of the 3.5 ruleset?

Just breezing through the character sheets, it looks mainly like a lot of 3.5 functionality would have to be removed. The core game mechanic of SIEGE rolls is pretty similar to 3.5 ability checks, so just some rejiggering of that function, plus adding the check boxes for the Primary stats. I suppose the basic mechanic for calculating hits would have to be redone, too.

On the positive side, C&C would gain custom tables, the party sheet, drag-n-drop inventory, a more robust effect system, etc., plus new functionality as updates to the 3.5 core are added.

Other than the work to convert it in the first place, the only thing I can imagine being a problem would be any licensing/marketing/blah blah blah issues regarding Troll Lord's interest in the matter.

Am I missing something here?

June 16th, 2012, 22:05
I think you are on target. However, one thing you may be overlooking is that the company, Troll Lords in this case, may only grant a FG license conditional on the product being a *separate* ruleset. There aren't may companies that want their product to be a subsidiary of what they may view as a competing product.

June 16th, 2012, 22:52
I think you are on target. However, one thing you may be overlooking is that the company, Troll Lords in this case, may only grant a FG license conditional on the product being a *separate* ruleset. There aren't may companies that want their product to be a subsidiary of what they may view as a competing product.

That's what I was trying to get at with my last bit in the original post - I don't know how the selling of the ruleset would be handles vis-a-vis the Troll Lord licensing. I assume there must be a way to handle that... or no? I'm guessing that's ultimately a question for the FG guys.

June 17th, 2012, 08:44
i dont *know* the answer to how the trolls would view that but my guess would be that it wouldnt be a big deal... they make no bones about the origins of their game and gary gygax spent his last few ywars working very closely with them.
yes gary and c&c are old school 1e/2e but that (imnsho) is just semantics :)

ill chip in $100 towards someone converting c&c into an extension based on 3.5e/4e.... providing of course the trolls really didnt mind. its not like you are buying 4e so you can play, 4e is just included.

possibly it should be 3.5e based being that many 4e users will move up to 5e whereas 3.5e has pathfinder keeping it going?

June 17th, 2012, 17:16
I haven't really examined it too closely, but since C&C is derived from 3.5, I'm just assuming that's the system that is matches more closely & thus would make the easiest conversion. I hadn't thought of its association with Pathfinder - good point.

June 18th, 2012, 03:56
The extension path would provide things such as the Custom Tables functionality, the party sheet and many other features. It would not automatically grant drag and drop functionality for weapons, armor, items, etc. There are two parts to the drag and drop, as you can imagine. First, the character sheet (or other drop target) has to be programmed to accept a certain data type and then handle the creation of the copy of the dragged item. Secondly, the library module has to be structured and set to use pre-defined data types that "collect" all the necessary information upon the drag start operation.

Newer rulesets might benefit from an extension approach from the beginning. For older rulesets, we'd need to create a convert to 3.5e equivalency and provide backward compatibility with any and all modules that went with that. C&C actually has a ton of modules, which makes it all that much more complicated. On the flip-side, porting over select features such as the table tool probably wouldn't be too bad.

June 19th, 2012, 20:14
The real Drag and Drop for this that would make life better would be the ability to drop attacks/Damages to tokens or on the combat tracker.

That being said, having drag and drop spells module like pathfinder or 3.5 would be great as well.

June 20th, 2012, 02:11
Shoot - hadn't thought about the backwards comparability issue... which pretty much means it's never going to happen. I really wish we could get somebody to just finish up the work that Sorcerer started! It would have to be cheaper and quicker that starting over. A lot of the work has been done, and a complete bug list already exists.

Damascus: what is the drag-n-drop spell functionality you're looking for? You can currently drag spells from the Player's Handbook onto the Spell tab of a character, as long as the character has some spells/level boxes set to something larger than 0 (I hope that makes sense). Is there another functionality you're looking for?

June 20th, 2012, 02:33
hi damascus - we drag and drop attacks and damage onto both the combat tracker and onto tokens on the map... i do have players occasionally telling me it isnt targetting properly but for the most part it works well.
i believe that if this is not working, on the castle keepers computer, make sure that the extension v2.08 is loaded, then inside the game click on options -> combat and activate the player attack/damage/effect drops....

June 20th, 2012, 03:16
Doh helps to have the extension selected..... That makes a huge difference.... I will just slink back to building the hex crawl I'm working on...and ignore the technical stuff until I'm done...

June 20th, 2012, 13:04
ha - dont worry - i reported those same things as 2.9 bugs to JPG a week or so ago until i happened to click on options and have a simultaneous lightbulb and beetroot face moment.