Kickstarter?

[Emrak]

Have you (the FG2 staff) considered looking into establishing a Kickstarter project to fund some massive upgrades to FG2?

What's the worst that could happen? :) If the goals were sizable enough, I'd donate.

[SLB]

I believe this to be a good idea.

[phantomwhale]

What sort of massive upgrades are people crying out for ?

Smiteworks currently make revenue from license and third-party product purchases, and fortunately this appears to be a steadily growing market. So I would expect my paid product to slowly improve - and indeed it does !

So for a kickstarter, I guess there would have to be a clearly defined feature that's perhaps beyond possible now, but with a cash injection might fund an extra development resource to get it completed ?

[gaara6666]

This sounds like a job for....THE INNOVATOR!

1. animated tokens. (yes i know bandwidth hog QQ..but the option for doing it would be cool)

2.more complex system for remembering games you have joined to the point of having categories for different games you play. i.e, I play a mutants and masterminds game, an exalted game, a shadowrun, and several D&D. itd be nice not having to guess which host is which by trying to remember whose alias it is.

3. better message log in terms of being able to customize the height of the typing bar so i dont lose track of what i typed when typing a huge paragraph.

4. individual honorship of token recognition. i.e some monsters are visible only to certain players (could be done using a check box in the combat tracker to enable/disable invisible - and enable/disable the ability to see invisible)

5. dual state tokens. i.e a tree that toggles into a treant. a rock that toggles into an earth element. these dual state tokens until "gm activated" would not be clickable so players couldnt target it or be aware that they werent just part of the map

6.appending more distinction between users in the chatlog so its easier to distinguish post honorship. if you have a wall of 30 posts names all bleed together

7.more money to the fantasy grounds team :D you guys earned it. its the best platform to play tabletop on and i used to work for a tabletop online browser based company. you all do fantastic work and it really really shows

8.Exporting the chatlog to a txt file so people can keep and read through it for nostalgia or recordkeeping. (cleared posts by the gm could be asterisked)

Except for animated tokens, I do not see anything that seems unreasonable in terms of coding or being a resource hog for players/Gm

[unerwünscht]

Well while we are in the mood for suggestions.
A Global chat built into the launcher. This would help facilitate pick-up games like you could never imagine.
I would even be willing to donate for this feature.

[gaara6666]

oh I know if you decided to kickstarted even using only 2 of my suggestions. you get another 50$ out of me easily. ive used fg2 for YEARS

the web comic giant int he playground did a kickstarter for their comic "the order of the stick" which is a great D&D based comic breaking the 4th wall all the time in which the characters talk about their skill points, levels, classes. their goal was to raise 57,000. well they beat that goal into the damn ground and raised 1.2 MILLION DOLLARS.

■Second most funds pledged to a completed Kickstarter drive ever.

■The third Kickstarter project in history to reach one million dollars in pledges.

if you kickstart it...they will come

[xaotik1]

I'd definitely appreciate the improved list of connections. Perhaps a scrollable list with the campaign name included? I also have a ton of games (8 atm, I think) and I always have to go searching for the alias every session.

In addition, I'd like the ability to set token layers. I know there is a group of people working to mod this in, but I am no programmer. . .I'd definitely like the ability to layer but just can't do it on my own. Could help recoup costs by selling map token packs for that as well. Drag and drop preset room tiles to help with the map making, etc. I know I'd use em every session. . .

[phantomwhale]

Would have thought you'd need some grand plan for an FGII kickstarter, just adding a grab bag of smaller features might not quite kick it, and stray too close to "well, isn't this just part of regular feature development".

So whilst we're blurring the lines a little, don't forget there is now an official wish list for adding requests for new features here :

https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

Then again, maybe grabbing the top 20 items from that list, and FGII saying "we can get them done, but we need to quit our day jobs / hire more staff so donate $$$ and we can do that" might be enough to get a kickstarter going ?

More ideas fresh from my half-bakery :)
-PW-

[VenomousFiligree]

https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/



Wow didn't know that was there! Was it announce in its own thread or slipped out quietly?

[Dakadin]

JPG announced it here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16269

[phantomwhale]

Yeah, I only picked up on it as I get an RSS of all threads - otherwise I don't really hang out in the support forum much, so would of missed it.

Have been trying to spread the word since. Maybe moon_wizard should put the link in his signature ? That would be a smart, useful and incredibly charismatic idea :D

[ddavison]

Moon_wizards and I have been bouncing around the idea of a kickstarter project for a good month or so. We really like the idea of it and we are actually thinking it could be a way to fund some useful third-party development. An example of one that we would probably have tried with kickstarter would be for the character importer we hired a developer to create last summer. Looking back, it wasn't really cost effective for us to do that. It may have gained us a few additional sales but it didn't really have a good return on investment. We knew this going in for this feature and chose to proceed anyway, since it was a good value add for our existing community.

I will post another thread and link to it here with some of the ideas we are thinking about. Maybe with your help, we can figure out which ideas would be good kickstarter projects and how much funding would be realistic for each. The way they are set up also needs to be considered. What donation levels would be appropriate?

[Mellock]

Now that the issue of some extra funding comes up, I have a not-very-related question: would it be possible in the store to have an option to "gift" someone a product? I.e. just have the order sent to his email address and the product added to his order history?

I've been meaning to ask this for a while, but always figured you guys have so much on your plate already... Perhaps it's also just not a good, secure, idea.

[ddavison]

Now that the issue of some extra funding comes up, I have a not-very-related question: would it be possible in the store to have an option to "gift" someone a product? I.e. just have the order sent to his email address and the product added to his order history?

I've been meaning to ask this for a while, but always figured you guys have so much on your plate already... Perhaps it's also just not a good, secure, idea.


It's actually a great idea and one we've been discussing for some time. We are also thinking of putting the store features directly into the application and will hopefully be able to allow the gifting to occur for anyone you are connected to inside the game. Kickstarter may not be the best place for it... but maybe I'm wrong. You guys tell us.

I think it helps GMs a lot. Otherwise, GMs typically spend way more money on roleplaying than players. This is definitely the case with face-to-face and printed products. This feature seems like it would be a nice, subtle way to allow players to contribute back to their GMs for all the hard work the GM puts into the game. It would also help promote more players to shift over to GMs if they didn't also have to worry about the cost of acquiring all the products.

[ddavison]

Here is the idea thread:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=123557#post123557

[VenomousFiligree]

It's actually a great idea and one we've been discussing for some time. We are also thinking of putting the store features directly into the application and will hopefully be able to allow the gifting to occur for anyone you are connected to inside the game. Kickstarter may not be the best place for it... but maybe I'm wrong. You guys tell us.

I think it helps GMs a lot. Otherwise, GMs typically spend way more money on roleplaying than players. This is definitely the case with face-to-face and printed products. This feature seems like it would be a nice, subtle way to allow players to contribute back to their GMs for all the hard work the GM puts into the game. It would also help promote more players to shift over to GMs if they didn't also have to worry about the cost of acquiring all the products.
A GM "tip jar" would be great! If you think you've had a good game or want to add towards the next adventure, donate to the GMs FG account :)

[ElementEvil]

Fix the program with the money. The whole structure of it is kind of messed up.

So lets run through a first timers mind. You buy this product. You install and update. When you're in, you have no where to go. There's no way to connect to people. So we go back onto the website and register. We start looking through forums and posts to find a game in our timezone. If we are lucky enough to find one, it may not be a ruleset we already have. Back to the store (Which is not in the game btw) We buy the ruleset and go back to the forums. We start setting up a game date and the gm gives us his server alias. (Up until this point, you didn't even need to buy or install the game.)

When we get back into the program, we make a coffee. The GM probably hasn't started the server yet and there is really no way to know when he's on, unless you both have instant messenger or the server comes online anyways. But hurray, it starts to connect while the water boils.

It's a long process. Overly complicated. It's also really depressing when you open Fantasy Grounds and you feel like you're the gamer on the planet until you connect with your small group.

Can we make it easy to open up the program. Chat with friends and connect with new players or GM's. Buy new game supplements. Look for a group. Drop-in a public game, or try out a demo. All without having to exit and go back to the website?!

I want this thing to feel like a way to access a convention hall full of fun gamers. Not some basement in an abandoned home where kids meet in secret to play DnD.

[phantomwhale]

Fix the program with the money. The whole structure of it is kind of messed up.

...

I want this thing to feel like a way to access a convention hall full of fun gamers. Not some basement in an abandoned home where kids meet in secret to play DnD.

I partly agree. Until your connected to a game, you need to use another tool (forums, Skype) to communicate with people to let them know what's happening, iron out any networking issues, confirm the game is still on tonight etc...

So some sort of lobby, early touchpoint for people to gather and text chat pre-game would be useful. Although how this then blends with being inside the game, I'm not too sure. All details that can be worked through.

This could really help once a new game has been established. And having a chat room within the client (similar to the quite hidden FGII IRC room on the website that I can't even find now) might help people discuss games, ask about interest in games, or at least set better expectations on finding a game.

But there will still be the social issue of setting up and organising a game with other people online. FGII client could help bolster this communication, giving people at least a first touch point before a game or before hitting the forums to look for a game. But I suspect games will continue to be set up and organised via forums, as it's simply not a "drop in an play" style of hobby, either face-to-face or online.

I don't think it will ever feel like a convention hall full of gamers, but it would be good to make it feel a little less "secret" - I know I owned the software for over a year before I got into a game, and over three years until I started getting value out of it.

[xaotik1]

I'd be more inclined to use the vote system at https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/ if I were actually able to suggest things on it. . .as it is, unless you see it up there already, you're pretty much out of luck. Doesn't really help out if we can't add our own ideas.

[phantomwhale]

I'd be more inclined to use the vote system at https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/ if I were actually able to suggest things on it. . .as it is, unless you see it up there already, you're pretty much out of luck. Doesn't really help out if we can't add our own ideas.

Not sure that's right; you should be able to add ideas to the FG2 wish list ?

You might need to create an account first, but otherwise just type into the orange box, and click "share your idea" (after checking the list to ensure you're not creating a duplicate idea).

Lots of people add items onto the Savage Worlds ruleset list (which is hosted on the same website).

[ElementEvil]

I've dropped into a couple campaigns myself. Either because they lost a player or because they didn't have enough but started anyways. I see you have that all organized on the game calender too. Looks like you have all the pieces, you just need to do a Steve Jobs and put everything together in an artful way.

[madman]

LOL! Please!

Chris

[ddavison]

I'm interested in letting the ideas continue to flow without too much interruption. I am very passionate about the program and what it allows gamers to do, but ElementalEvil is right to some extent. We've talked over most of these issues either internally or elsewhere on the forums. It is our hope that we can use something like Kickstarter to actually "fix the program", as ElementalEvil put it. ;)

[Trenloe]

Great discussion.

There seems to be this expectation from some quarters that the Fantasy Grounds application should do everything in terms of organising a game, getting people together, chatting, etc.. I open FG and I can chat, enter a virtual convention hall and find games, get an ad hoc game going, etc., etc...

All of this functionality is already available for you ON THIS WEBSITE! Why should it be integrated into the FG app??? Use the chat room linked on this website, use the forums and the calendar to organise games. Then, once you have a game and a time, load up FG, enter the IP address/alias of the game and off you go.

I for one, don't want game organisation within the application. What happens if I'm on my mobile phone on the train home from work and I want to find a game for tonight? At the moment I can do that by using the website - I wouldn't be able to if I had to run Fantasy Grounds. What happens if I'm on a work PC without Fantasy Grounds and I want to find and join a game for tonight/tomorrow/next week - I can't if it is in Fantasy Grounds!

I really don't want to see my options to find/join games split between running FG or a more internet based approach (website chat, forums, calendar, PMs, etc.) as that means that we are now splitting up the options and it will result in more chances of people missing out - I have to run FG AND a web browser to keep tabs on what's going on, whereas at the moment I just need a web browser.

Is this app really crying out for a front-end meeting room where people can get pick up games? Is it really? Do GMs who have a game completely prepared in FG just log in and say "Hey, who fancies a game now?" There have been posts recently about people complaining that it is hard/frustrating to find a game as a player within the forums - it will be even harder if you log into a chat room and wait 6 hours for a GM to turn up at random. Imagine how frustrating that would be??? Then, you leave for 20 minutes and you miss the one pick-up GM who comes along...

OK, this is an extreme view from me... :) I'd be happy to be proved wrong... But, as a GM for FG and an active player, all I see at the moment is GMs offering games that usually fill up over a number of days, they rarely fill up on the spur of the moment. A perfect example occurred today - with 48 hours notice Blackfoot decided to run an intro Pathfinder game and he ended up cancelling it as he couldn't get the 4 players needed - with 48 hour notice! I see plenty of players asking for a 3.5E/Pathfinder game to be ran, but in 48 hours 4 players couldn't be found. So, is there really a call for "pick-up games"???

Who knows, perhaps if we got a pick-up game culture this would change... But is that really what happens in the RPG community? Even at conventions people book onto prearranged game slots weeks in advance. People do walk in and get a game - but those are usually spare seats at a game that has been planned for a while.

[VenomousFiligree]

How hard would it be to have chat and the game calendar visible from both a browser and FG itself?

[Trenloe]

How hard would it be to have chat and the game calendar visible from both a browser and FG itself?
Embed a browser in FG that links to the relevant pages on the website? That's what we're essentially talking about right?

If it's minimum development work and it is the same system (i.e. people using a web browser as normal, or the embedded web browser see the same things and access the same data) then that's "OK" from my point of view. Where I'm coming from is that I really don't want to see valuable FG development resource spent on doing something that we already have - which is accessible on the same computer via a web browser, at the same time as running FG.

How about providing hyperlinks on the first page of FG that would open a separate browser at the relevant page (calendar, chat room, store, forum, etc.)? This would point people in the right direction with a minimum of development from Smiteworks.

I just have the feeling that if a front end chat room and other functionality was put into the app, that users would then start complaining that they can't access it once they're playing a game. So now more development time and effort has to be spent developing external chat from within a FG campaign - as this would be needed for players who are late to a game or who have problems. Of course, this can be done now via a web browser, but from what we're all reading on recent threads it seems there is "a need" for that web browser based functionality to be built into Fantasy Grounds??

[VenomousFiligree]

Embed a browser in FG that links to the relevant pages on the website? That's what we're essentially talking about right?
Not necessarily no. Chat at the moment doesn't have to be viewed in a browser, it requires IRC software, which could be embedded in FG. Likewise a calendar could be made to be viewable both in a browser and FG.

[Trenloe]

Not necessarily no. Chat at the moment doesn't have to be viewed in a browser, it requires IRC software, which could be embedded in FG. Likewise a calendar could be made to be viewable both in a browser and FG.
I understand that. What I'm saying is that do we want limited FG development resource working on adding functionality to the base app that is available in a web browser now? Is it that hard to run this in a separate browser? If the answer to that is yes, then embed a browser in the first page of Fantasy Grounds and have a front end web page that is an easy to use portal that links to chat, calendar, forums, store - all running in the embedded browser. Developing IRC and calendar apps in FG is, IMHO, a waste of limited development resource.

Anyway, I think I've gone on way too much about this. I basically took exception to a comment a few posts back saying "Fix the program with the money. The whole structure of it is kind of messed up." and some of the comments that followed in said post.

If there is enough interest for this type of functionality it will be added to and voted on at the Fantasy Grounds wish list https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

[VenomousFiligree]

It was one of the ideas put out by doug, so maybe thats why its being talked about.

Personally my favourite so far is a character sheet designer :)

[osarusan]

It is our hope that we can use something like Kickstarter to actually "fix the program", as ElementalEvil put it. ;)

This makes me so happy to hear.

I love the program, but when ElementalEvil pointed it out so clearly in that post, I had to think... "Ahhh." He's totally right.

FG has pretty much everything a VTT could need (with a few missing bits that have been mentioned in other areas -- the lobby, a built-in store, character sheet customizer, and cross-platform/web browser compatibility being my favorite potential additions). The main thing it needs is to be fixed up and beautifully, artistically strung together into a product that makes you forget you're using a software table. FG has the visual appeal down; it just needs a bunch mechanic and UI tweaks to get to where it needs to go.

I'm really excited to see where this can take the program! I've been using it for many years, and I can't wait to see what it could turn into!

[Klingbeil]

unless i can get it on android, i'm not interested.