Price on the Ultimate Licence

[Gahnzo]

This may be presumptuous of me, but will we ever see a price drop for the Ultimate Licence at any point?

I really want to get this, and having the Ultimate Licence would get my friends to more likely check it out.

[Leonal]

If you have a full license now and depending on how many friends want to play with you, you could always buy a bundle of lite licenses for them (unless you want to attract people you don't already know). You can get 10 in a bundle for 131.72. (For the price of 8+ Lites you could also just upgrade to Ultimate...)

[Doswelk]

I doubt the price of the Ultimate license will drop... you have to consider that if one person buys an Ultimate license then anyone who plays with him does not need to buy a license at all.

Smiteworks is a small company and needs to keep some income, so yes the price is steep (to some people) but I'd rather have a steep price and FGII being updated than a cheap price and no Smiteworks.

I suppose if you can find 14 friends who are willing to try it out and each donate $10 it still works out cheaper than each player buying a Lite license.

Failing that keep an eye out for the proposed FGIICon, if that happens there will be a large number of Ultimate license holders (myself included) that will be running games then your friends can play on those and decide whether buying a Lite license would be so bad.

[lachancery]

I doubt the price of the Ultimate license will drop... you have to consider that if one person buys an Ultimate license then anyone who plays with him does not need to buy a license at all.

Smiteworks is a small company and needs to keep some income, so yes the price is steep (to some people) but I'd rather have a steep price and FGII being updated than a cheap price and no Smiteworks.
Hear! Hear! I've been biting my tongue (well, my fingers anyhow), and avoiding getting in these pricing related threads... I would find it unfortunate if the pricing was lowered for the same reasons.

A role playing book costs upward of $20. Considering that a lot of information in the books is readily available within FG when playing, there's pretty strong relative value already!

Now, it would be wise marketing to offer a special discount, say, during the FGIICon...

[Griogre]

I agree with Doswelk on pricing as well. If the price is a problem then make sure you check out the cost of a getting a bundle of licenses such as a Full Licences and 4-5 Lite Licences, its cheaper. It's also cheaper for the group if you have more than one GM to get two Full Licenses and several lite licences. To see the bundle pricing just add several licences into your basket at the store.

Edit: Typo :(

[JohnD]

Another way to look at it;

For your $150 you get unlimited hours of entertainment gaming at home, in a safe and secure environment.

Your $150 would be gone in probably 2 trips to the bars for a night out, plus hangover, potential testosterone fuelled fights over stupid things, and any number of dubious social diseases and regrets.

[madman]

Another way to look at it;

For your $150 you get unlimited hours of entertainment gaming at home, in a safe and secure environment.

Your $150 would be gone in probably 2 trips to the bars for a night out, plus hangover, potential testosterone fuelled fights over stupid things, and any number of dubious social diseases and regrets.

AMEN Brother!
150 Dollars to host games for awesome community PRICELESS! .......SOON!
Chris

[unerwünscht]

I'm not saying that the cost of FG is too high... In fact over the years I have purchased quite a few licenses. But I wonder how many of you defending the current price would still defend it if another program came along that did everything FG does but for half the price. Would you still think the price is fair?

I would honestly say the thing that sets FG apart from all the rest is the 3rd part development community. The issue with that is that it becomes a very unstable foundation to build your empire upon.

Now I am too far invested into FG to sit on the sidelines and watch it all slip away to a cheaper alternative. I would also say that currently FG has the advantage on base software as well. But 99% of that advantage comes in the slick design of the user interface. How long until someone else designs a VTT with a nice looking interface and 3D dice? I'm honestly shocked as hell it hasn't happened yet. But what happens then?

Just something to sit and honestly think about it, before it is too late.

[phantomwhale]

It's a good point regarding a competing product at half the price.

I can't say I totally agree around the 3rd party development being a shaky foundation to build on - start up ventures have always relied on loyal fans and advocates. But this loyalty can only happen if the product fulfils a unqiue need, which for now FGII does.

The interface is vital for a VTT. My players are non-techy (I had to explain files and folders to one to sort out her portrait - thank god I can do that as a GM now) and also non-gamers, in some cases. So they need to be able to work the software - which they can do.

But I also think the depth and breadth of tooling is well integrated too (image tools, chat options) and ruleset options. Ok, sure, I'm slightly blowing my own here (although I didn't write the original SWEX ruleset, so not completely), but without that ruleset support we would have probably thrown the towel in. The interface is nice, but to make online gaming something different to "not-as-good face-to-face gaming" is important to have these features, both from the rulesets and the ongoing improvement to the core tool.

A competing product would have to provide a lot more than a slick interface for me - it would need support for a wide variety of RPG settings. And, to be a commercial setting, these would require legal agreements with publishers. Plus for me, being open to such rich extension is vital - it's not just some software for me, it's a platform. But then, I'm a dev/player, and not the "typical" user from that angle I guess.

I'd welcome a competitor - competition can breed innovation. But I also think we're look at quite a niche market here, and can't see a quality product being produced within that market size we're looking at without a reasonable cost for the software.

So I guess I disagree it's all about the interface, although that's what dragged me to the software in the first place and it's obvious "wow factor". Maybe another slick interface would dilute the market - but hopefully expand it's size too. Then we can go explain how FGII has the depth too, double it's market share, drop license costs and then everyone's a winner :)

[unerwünscht]

See now this is where I have to respectfully disagree. I have always found the image/map options inside of FG to be more than a little lacking. Bare minimum we need the ability to draw lines of various sizes and colors. Ideally the ability to draw lines of various sizes and then apply the appropriate effect to said line to make it kind of look like a wall.

As for the chat window, it has all the basic needs of a chat window, but there is close to no added features there.

Now the kicker here is that Moon is just now getting into really hammering changes into the FG code, and I have high hopes that he is going to kick out some changes that just blow us all away. But right now, as things stand, there is another VTT on the horizon that has me a little worried about FG. (No, I will not tell the lurkers what it is, again I have too much invested in FG.) But we are also talking about the possibility of FG3 in another thread, so I think we here in the FG community can, with a little effort maintain our superiority over all other VTTs on the market ;)

[phantomwhale]

Ah - I did wonder if there was something specific in mind ! Yes, your comments become more clear with that in mind.

Now I still think FGII has the licensing and breadth of rulesets advantage which another pretty interface wouldn't necessarily have. But your point about some of the tools is quite true, and probably is an area we should focus on.

Now is probably a good idea to highlight to those who haven't seen the other thread that Moon has put the FGII wishlist up on the internet - https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/ - you can not only add ideas, but more importantly vote on existing ones. I'd urge people to just vote for things they really want to see - voting for everything is the same as voting for nothing !

I personally voted for some Dev features I'd like to see, but also for a few of the interface / map tool changes that unerwünscht has highlighted. On this I agree, with just a little effort we can get the image/map tool a bit more "polished". The nice thing with that is the image tool is part of the Core engine, so improvements made to it would automatically effect all rulesets, I believe, adding this polish to the entire catalog.

Plus all this continued development makes my license fee feel well spent; remember when we were talking annual fees *shudder*. I do understand the fees can be a prohibitive cost of entry for others though - I know it's worth the money, but it took a bit of a leap of faith for me to buy the full license to discover this. This is an old, and slightly different topic though, one that has been partly addressed by the improved demo offering, allowing people to properly try before they buy, as well as open one-shots and hopefully, FGIICon (coming soon) too !

[Dracones]

I would honestly say the thing that sets FG apart from all the rest is the 3rd part development community. The issue with that is that it becomes a very unstable foundation to build your empire upon.


Maptools has a 3rd party developer community for it. I'd say it's toolset and framework support are just as good as FG, though FG is a lot easier to get into as a player.

What separates FG out is the 3rd party licensing. With FG you can buy a Deadland's reloaded module and run it for a group of players without a lot of manual prep.

I'd think the ideal situation for FG would be to have modules coming out for the VTT the same day they hit print. But building up to that is a lot of work. The rulesets all need to be well rounded, they need reliable 3rd party developers and a way to fund them, and they need support from the companies they want to license from.

[unerwünscht]

I'd think the ideal situation for FG would be to have modules coming out for the VTT the same day they hit print. But building up to that is a lot of work. The rulesets all need to be well rounded, they need reliable 3rd party developers and a way to fund them, and they need support from the companies they want to license from.

That is EXACTLY what I plan on doing with my gaming line. Hitting a digital shelf near you this august. ;)

[wbcreighton]

One of the strengths of FG2 is that it can handle all the varied rulesets. The problem is that if another VTT comes along that can do PF or DnD in an extraordinary way, that's all they need to succeed.

PF and DnD are such a big chunk of the market (they literally are the market), that if FG loses out in that segment, they will never get it back.

Not saying they will but the danger is there. That's why it is a priority for Smiteworks to land a deal with paizo or WotC.

[unerwünscht]

That's why it is a priority for Smiteworks to land a deal with paizo or WotC.

I think you vastly overestimate the importance of Paizo and WotC in conjunction with (D20 System) 3.5 OGL. In fact WotC has completely abandoned the 3.5 line of products, and Paizo's Pathfinder is only as popular as it is because (currently) it is the only option for decent 3.5 material (Decent is a relative idea here).

I think you also overestimate the amount of the gaming market that is tied down to 3.5 systems. Yes it is a significant chunk of the market, but in no way is "they literally are the market" even close to an accurate idea. In fact more and more players turn from that system everyday in favor of more flexible systems, and with the extremely limited support that they now receive fewer and fewer new players are picking it up anymore.

[phantomwhale]

The 2011 sales report (https://www.smiteworks.com/press/AnnualReport2011.htm) suggested that the other product lines (SWEX / Cthulhu and others) offer a small but growing income stream for FGII, but the core product (which comes bundled with 4E and 3.5E) still represent over 80% of the core income stream.

Hard to say if that directly translates to Paizo / WotC gaming making up 80% of FGII's use - you could argue those figures and potential usage patterns in many different ways. But I know my local tabletop gaming group is always at least 50% DnD these days - it's really boosted gamer numbers in the last decade, but I've felt more sidelined in trying to run alternative games. Hopefully it's "just a phase" or a gateway game to hook in new / retired gamers ;)

[EDIT] although ignoring costs and focusing on quantity only, the Core engine / 4E sales only represent 50% of the total sales made - so that hints more that a variety of rulesets is a big part of FGIIs future and unique sales position.

[wbcreighton]

I think you vastly overestimate the importance of Paizo and WotC in conjunction with (D20 System) 3.5 OGL. In fact WotC has completely abandoned the 3.5 line of products, and Paizo's Pathfinder is only as popular as it is because (currently) it is the only option for decent 3.5 material (Decent is a relative idea here).


I would like to think you are correct. I've never been big into DnD. I don't have the sales numbers to back up my claim, perhaps you do. :)

To think that the only reason that PF is popular is because it is the only 3.5 option is somewhat incorrect in my opinion. I think the reason it is popular is because they hire good writers and artists, and they consistently produce good material with high production value. They put out a monthly 96 page adventure as part of their AP line (plus a host of other products). Very few companies out there can boast the same, and they can do it because it sells.

BTW I'm not trying to spark a raging debate on the topic. If you have sales figures that show that paizo sales combined with WotC sales is not a signifigant part of the rpg market I will be happy change my view on the topic.

[Magnatude]

Ultimate license holders can become a great asset to the FG2 community... they can bring in a lot of new players that are "interested" but not yet convinced that FG2 is their kind of VTT.

I'm having fun with mine and FG2 is an excellent product, I get to help boost sales of FG2 (so hopefully we can get some revamps of our purchased outdated Rulesets) wink wink... nudge nudge...

[GunnarGreybeard]

I'm having fun with mine and FG2 is an excellent product, I get to help boost sales of FG2 (so hopefully we can get some revamps of our purchased outdated Rulesets) wink wink... nudge nudge...I'd give a wink and nudge to that myself. ;)