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Urieal
January 10th, 2012, 14:16
Are the contents of the FG2 Monsters & Treausure manual identical to the printed manual? I have the PHB in print, but I don't have the M&T manual.

Just curious because there are a lot of monsters that I seem to be adding (giant beetles, giant centipedes, etc.)

damned
January 10th, 2012, 22:48
the fg ruleset is not meant to replace the paper copies as full reference sets - they do only contain bare information. i just picked up 2 diff editions of the m&t and neither contain giant animals of any kind... a new monster manual is in the wings and it will contain all monsters from the d20srd but that will still need to be converted to fg format. i think you will need to continue adding a few of your own... you can save a little time by dragging a similar creature into a blank spot and it will duplicate it and then you can update/rename etc.

Urieal
January 10th, 2012, 23:26
Thanks, when I bought I was under the impression that all the contents (without much formatting) would be available. It's OK, not a problem, I'll buy the M&T manual :) I can afford it :)

Urieal
January 10th, 2012, 23:26
the fg ruleset is not meant to replace the paper copies as full reference sets - they do only contain bare information. i just picked up 2 diff editions of the m&t and neither contain giant animals of any kind... a new monster manual is in the wings and it will contain all monsters from the d20srd but that will still need to be converted to fg format. i think you will need to continue adding a few of your own... you can save a little time by dragging a similar creature into a blank spot and it will duplicate it and then you can update/rename etc.
Are the monsters converted from 3.0/3.5 (i.e. the d20 SRD)?

damned
January 10th, 2012, 23:32
Giant Centipedes etc are still NOT in the M&T... For licensing reasons (I think) the rulesets do not contain full contents because the original publishers still need to sell you the full books to make their $$ :)

I think the new monster manual will be called Classic Monsters (link (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/676918054/castles-and-crusades-classic-monster-a-monster-man?ref=email)) and contains monsters from MM, MMII and FF from the AD&D1E books...

dr_venture
January 22nd, 2012, 04:38
I think the new monster manual will be called Classic Monsters (link (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/676918054/castles-and-crusades-classic-monster-a-monster-man?ref=email)) and contains monsters from MM, MMII and FF from the AD&D1E books...

AHhhh!!! I can't believe I didn't know that this new rulebook was under development! I can't tell from the Kickstarter link whether or not the book will be available for the public, or only to people who ordered via kickstarter. I'd kill almost anything detailed in that book for a copy of the book. I hope there is a PDF version in the works, and even better yet, a FG module version... but with Sorcerer gone, I assume there's nothing planned on that front. :(

Team FG: if the parsing required on the source PDF isn't too painful (meaning, I wouldn't want to commit to something that I couldn't come through on), I might be willing to take a bullet for the team and build y'all a sellable module of it... although I'd much prefer to just be able to buy it myself!

Urieal
January 22nd, 2012, 05:38
I'm all for supporting TLG...but if they could provide it to those who have already purchased the C&C set here on FG2, then that would be cool...or better yet...as a downloadable add-on for say...$3 or something.

I'm still planning on getting the new book, and I may do it in PDF(if avail) for the simplicity of copying and pasting data into my own FG2 monster module (a module I have built of additional monsters).

damned
January 22nd, 2012, 06:42
AHhhh!!! I can't believe I didn't know that this new rulebook was under development! I can't tell from the Kickstarter link whether or not the book will be available for the public, or only to people who ordered via kickstarter. I'd kill almost anything detailed in that book for a copy of the book. I hope there is a PDF version in the works, and even better yet, a FG module version... but with Sorcerer gone, I assume there's nothing planned on that front. :(

i usually post specials and things from the Trolls website but for some reason i didnt post this one... i did however buy the $100 version and am looking forward to it. im sure they will release it in pdf. the $100 pack also comes with CK, PHB and MT in choice of PDF, Kindle or Nook formats so im sure they will do at the least a PDF of the CM.



Team FG: if the parsing required on the source PDF isn't too painful (meaning, I wouldn't want to commit to something that I couldn't come through on), I might be willing to take a bullet for the team and build y'all a sellable module of it... although I'd much prefer to just be able to buy it myself!

i *think* the parser really only works when taking from html or xml tags where you can search for specific strings to know where to start and finish from. im sure trenloe will be able to add more info to this.

damned
January 22nd, 2012, 06:47
I'm all for supporting TLG...but if they could provide it to those who have already purchased the C&C set here on FG2, then that would be cool...or better yet...as a downloadable add-on for say...$3 or something.

I'm still planning on getting the new book, and I may do it in PDF(if avail) for the simplicity of copying and pasting data into my own FG2 monster module (a module I have built of additional monsters).

i think you are being a little too hopeful. the cheapest bundles ive ever seen for the three base c&c books being ckg, m&t and phb is $50 and that is usually for the PDF versions. the $10 license here is really intended for people who already own the source books so it is the extra - not the other way around.

my experience is that the pdf versions are the same price as the printed versions from troll lords.

dr_venture
January 22nd, 2012, 07:00
i *think* the parser really only works when taking from html or xml tags where you can search for specific strings to know where to start and finish from. im sure trenloe will be able to add more info to this.

That's probably true - I assumed I'd be writing my own parser. I did it for the OGL d20 spells for that C&C module I did (it really helps in converting the old AD&D modules to C&C). It was a big PITA as there was a lot of inconsistencies in the source text. Still... my desire to use many old school monsters is great (but not all - I thought Fiend Folio was a train wreck when it first came out, and I don't believe it has aged well...). If the chore of writing a parser wasn't *too* onerous, I might just volunteer to put it in a polished module for the masses. I helped Sorcerer a little bit with what would have been an update to the Arms & Armor Guide to facilitate inventory changes he was working on, and I think it's something I could pull off... if nobody else is going to do it.

Trenloe
January 22nd, 2012, 07:06
AHhhh!!! I can't believe I didn't know that this new rulebook was under development! I can't tell from the Kickstarter link whether or not the book will be available for the public, or only to people who ordered via kickstarter. I'd kill almost anything detailed in that book for a copy of the book!
The body text of the main page suggests it will be $24.99 for a hardcover.

Trenloe
January 22nd, 2012, 07:11
That's probably true - I assumed I'd be writing my own parser. I did it for the OGL d20 spells for that C&C module I did (it really helps in converting the old AD&D modules to C&C). It was a big PITA as there was a lot of inconsistencies in the source text. Still... my desire to use many old school monsters is great (but not all - I thought Fiend Folio was a train wreck when it first came out, and I don't believe it has aged well...). If the chore of writing a parser wasn't *too* onerous, I might just volunteer to put it in a polished module for the masses. I helped Sorcerer a little bit with what would have been an update to the Arms & Armor Guide to facilitate inventory changes he was working on, and I think it's something I could pull off... if nobody else is going to do it.
I've got the framework of a pretty good parser that I have used to create creature, spells and magic items modules for Pathfinder. As you say, the main effort is getting data in a format that is reproducable - basically, what can be put in the fields supported by FG: (for a monster) # encountered, size, HD, move, AC, BtH, Attack, Special, Saves, Intelligence, Alignment, Type, Treasure, XP, Equipment.

Then, with this list (perhaps in a spreadsheet), it would be easy to modify the parser I have to go through, extract the data and create the whole module XML.

For Classic Monsters we're presuming it will be released under the OGL of course... :)

dr_venture
January 22nd, 2012, 07:20
Then, with this list (perhaps in a spreadsheet), it would be easy to modify the parser I have to go through, extract the data and create the whole module XML.

For Classic Monsters we're presuming it will be released under the OGL of course... :)

Sweet on the parser front! As for OGL, I just figured that whoever was going to the trouble to actually create the whole dang thing could coordinate with Troll Lord & Smiteworks and make a product out of it. TL seems to be keen on that, and I know I'd personally prefer to pay for it than create it... but if nobody else creates it I might just create it for myself... and if I'm doing that, might as well make it a product (assuming TL & Smiteworks were keen on that, of course).

All in favor of Trenloe creating a module of the new book raise their hands!!! It's unanimous!

damned
January 22nd, 2012, 07:22
i have a feeling the Classic Monsters will be *from* SRD20!

dr_venture
January 22nd, 2012, 07:36
I briefly considered parsing out the monsters from d20... then I sobered up! Had I known what a hassle the spells were to do - and I didn't even do anything to convert them from d20 to C&C - I never would have done it. I'd sure love to have those monster tho... *drool*.

Trenloe
January 22nd, 2012, 07:44
i have a feeling the Classic Monsters will be *from* SRD20!
The kickstart site says:

Kim revisits the old monster books, MM II and the Fiend Folio, plying their pages for all those classic monsters that mystified and horrified young gamers of every stripe. From the tarrasque to the peryton, from the mighty-small dune stalker to the nightshade, Kim brings it all back to the table.
The monsters in the d20 SRD are really only those released in MM1 (to the best of my knowledge).

I'm hoping Classic Monsters will be something like the recently "Pathfinderised" Tome of Horrors from Frog God Games, but probably not as big...

Trenloe
January 22nd, 2012, 07:47
All in favor of Trenloe creating a module of the new book raise their hands!!! It's unanimous!
OK, OK... I'll see what I can do - will have to get my hands on a PDF as I missed the kickstarter too.

It won't have any token art associated with it - as I'm a terrible artist. Now, if someone fancied doing some line art for some of the creatures... :)

dr_venture
January 22nd, 2012, 18:05
Wow, potentially with tokens... I wasn't going to commit to go that far... I'm glad I single-handedly nominated and unanimously voted you in! If you're looking at making it an official deal (as always, assuming that Troll Lord and Smiteworks were interested in making that happen), then hopefully the new product will have some usable artwork in it. Beyond that, I haven't done much original art since high school - I'm more of a tweaker of existing material/digital artist.

damned
January 26th, 2012, 10:30
trenloe - if i collected all the d20srd monsters into a common format in excel would you then be able to write a parser? would that make it easier? maybe a few of us could share a rewrite of some of the stats to match c&c stats?
is there another/better/easier format for you to parse?
whos up for some donkey work collating and then updating the stats prior to parsing?

dr_venture
January 26th, 2012, 16:41
That's what I had to do for the d20 spells - no fun, but it's sure nice to have that module floating around. I'd be up for pitching in on this... but isn't the new C&C book supposed to do all of the conversion work for us... or am I misunderstanding?

Also, since they're offering the product for sale - and seem to be a very cool company that supports FG - I would much rather support their official conversion of their product, if possible. So I guess I'd prefer to wait and see if we can expect to see anything from them first.

damned
January 26th, 2012, 21:24
cool - im up for waiting - not a lot of spare time :)
i got an update this morning. book goes to printers on 6th feb. they can release any electronic versions until they are all ready as their contract says nook, kindle and itunes must all be released simultaneously and they still have some way to go...

dr_venture
January 26th, 2012, 22:04
Thanks for the update, my friend... if I don't hear it here, I pretty much don't hear it. I'm happy to hear that there is as much interest in the older monsters here as I have myself.

Trenloe
January 30th, 2012, 00:02
I'm happy to wait and see what's in the new creature book from TLG and then see about getting permission to convert that over etc..

I'm also happy to start a collaborative effort on converting the monsters from the d20 SRD into a C&C NPC Module. The first step would be to get base infomation into a spreadsheet with headings as mentioned in post #12.

damned
January 30th, 2012, 04:30
so whats the plan - wait and see Classic Monsters first or start work on SRD?

Trenloe
January 30th, 2012, 04:45
so whats the plan - wait and see Classic Monsters first or start work on SRD?
As I don't think Classic Monsters will cover much of the SRD I'm OK to start working on that. I haven't paid too much attention to the SRD or published C&C creatures (as I'm primarily a C&C player at present) but, how many creatures from the SRD have already been included in previous C&C publications? For example, "Monsters & Treasure" in the B's every creature from the d20 SRD (except Bralani) is included.

Therefore, is there much point in doing the SRD monsters as we have most of them already?