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Ardem
December 6th, 2011, 23:34
I thought I give my experiences on using FGII and Virtual tabletop.

Background:
This is from the perspective of a GM new to virtual tabletop and FG II, as well as most players new to this form as well.

I discovered FG about a month ago after much research and looking at different systems FG seemed to give a nice visual appeal I was after, this was to compensated the fact we were not face to face, so the system had to make up for it in that respect. RMC being included was a huge bonus.

The fact RMC was different and all my modules and experience was in RM FRP, I set forth to make a FRP extension and library book. I can say I have successfully done about 60% of where I want to be at but it is definitely playable. Someone like myself with a background in IT and small amount of programming knowledge and patience was able to modify the aspects of the extension.

Night 1 - Character creation

The setup:
Boy, How I wished to have done this differently. All players assembled on time, I hard spent the day testing FG2 connection external (again IT knowledge and a health supply of external computers). I glad I did. Even though I set up the port forwarding correctly it did not work, I ummed and arred for a while thinking my router was not porting the port when I remembered that my Windows 7 firewall was on and need to add the program to the allowable programs (I had disabled request firewall access feature a long time ago)
The test feature in FG2 worked flawlessly but I still didn't trust it so I tested an external connection with a copy elsewhere (glad I purchased those extra lite licences) Bingo! in and working.

It was now 3.00pm and they were not due to arrive till 8.30, I sent an email and sms to confirm it was still on (good to get people to turn up on time )
I had one member turn up at 7.00pm on skype and I used him as a guinea pig to test how I was going to do the training.

Training:
Yes this was not different then a software training session I conducted in the past, you need the same level of patience and a vocab to say the same thing 4 different ways.

Only 2 of the players had RM experience and it was forever gone from their memory. One had FG2 experience but not RMC and one just got back from a 8 hour drive from Dubbo (Dubbo to Sydney feel free to look it up on a map) so was a mental write off.

And this is where I wished I done it differently. Each person had a different skill level and learning ratio, even though I was trying to keep the group together it was getting messy. I think character creation and FG2 learning should of been done individually throughout the previous week to spend that quality one on one time. There was too much for the players to absorb and I would say that more of the fault of RM then of FG2. They understood the FG feature pretty quick but there was a few non intuitive things for the players.

* The skill middle mouse roller was a problem. (I am going to kill that next chance I get)
* The skill scroller was in the wrong spot and overlapped a skill.
* The mouse right click select a number of die to roll, one player had trouble until a AHHHH! moment

On Rolemaster:

What I should of done with the players instead of going through the character creation one at a time like the book. I should of worked backwards. The idea would of been to get people to look at the skills they want to develop and then get them to jot down some notes around the prime stats for those skills.

This would of allowed when starting the character creation a much better end goal to aim for. It perhaps would of made those new to rolemaster get a little more understanding of there ideal character. Doing it one stage at a time I was asked many times why do we need to do this step or what is it useful. Also prime stats although clear to me some can be confusing what are they for what do they do. The real answer are the skills section rather then the individual stats.

Combat tracker
We got characters to 90% there and let the guys view the combat tracker, just a minor introduction. It was pobably the most excitement I heard from the players in the night as I allowed them to hit each other in mock duels, also it was a little less formal, as it was now 1am in the morning.

The players got a little bit of an understanding and also got them to put in the "/die 2d10+Qu Bonus Initiative" and make a hotkey. Although some people like myself originally assumed you could put Qu and it will get the stat unfortunately not, need to put in the actual number.

The dragging the person name of who you wanted to attack was difficult to explain no matter how much I explained to grab the text not the image, it was a struggle, but eventually everyone got it. A few hits and a few criticals all was good except the effects were not showing up I did a restart and tested and it was all fine.

FG Software Issues:
It was more stable then I expected we had two major crashes not due to the software, due to my wife downloading a virus and flooding the internet. And the second time after I explain to her not to plug it in for her to plug it in again because she felt her housewives of Florida/Beverly hills or Cleveland what ever it was more important.

One of our player had two or three legitimate crashes for no reason, but was able to reconnect quite quickly.

The one issue was the wait time on character, player being impatient saying I lost my character as the icon had not come up in 1 minute was a issue. Perhaps FG could of loaded characters first in the update and display but make them greyed out. Atleast the player knows he is waiting for something, perhaps even a loading bar.

Other then that it was a good start and looking forward to the first adventure. Happy to answer any question you may have with this commentary.

GunnarGreybeard
December 7th, 2011, 01:48
I think character creation and FG2 learning should of been done individually throughout the previous week to spend that quality one on one time. There was too much for the players to absorb and I would say that more of the fault of RM then of FG2. They understood the FG feature pretty quick but there was a few non intuitive things for the players.That is pretty much how I did the games I have run before. Basically, we did most of the leg work via PM and chat to flesh out campaign background stuff and general character concepts. Then, as time allowed, I connected with them one at a time to finish up the character sheets, answer questions and walked through dice rolling from the character sheets.

Ardem
December 19th, 2011, 07:48
First RPG night.

Well guys we got together after a week or two sorting out some character development things and started the first part of the campaign.

I thought I would use the Axe Bridge module to start this (I will not add any spoilers here so do not worry), even though it says 2-4 levels I still feel this is doable with level 1 characters and have tweaked any NPC that are too powerful.

I spent a week beforehand going through the module piece by piece, seeing how it all tied together, so I felt full prepared, also I ran my head through the FRP book and update my RM knowledge. I felt very familiar with FG by now (how many people grab FG and decide to make library modules and tweak the background code in the first month, it is a great way to understand all aspects of the engine).

Prepared does not always mean smooth.
I did my usual of sending an email to the players and SMS those that I have numbers for to let them know 8.30 and still on. Unfortunately those late where my kin even though I specified the time and gave them the hurry up. 9.00pm we started

GM Rule 1 - When dealing with family accept they will try and take advantage of you.

It always interesting with a group that have not role-played together before or a GM like myself that is a bit rusty. I started off with a little background and a little about the campaign setting, I did not want to devle into it too much because a) it was not needed and b) I had not fleshed it out 100% so you always get questions you cannot answer.

I had them start knowing each other and facing each other in a tavern, and with a bit of prompting then to see what would happen. <silence>

GM Rule 2 - Silence as a GM does not 'feel your friend, it feels your enemy'. But you need to accept it on occasion

When sitting in a group facing each other I could raise my eyebrows or give visual clues that as a GM I want their interaction, in a non visual setting this is one of the arrrgh what do I do now moments

I let it sit there for a bit and then a brave player piped forward, players were feeling there way in this as much as I was. I then assigned a player to have a mother and they were staying at her tavern to request a package to be deliver to axebridge and this was my adventure hook for the adventure module. It was a good tie in, I felt and did give it a bit of fluidity, how could anyone refuse their mother.

However the group did make fun and play with this concept a few laughs,

No 1) I am very bad with accents and impressions
No 2) How will players respond will they view other players comments as juvenile as they want something more serious or take things lighthearted

So this is the first test of the playing group will it work or will a person who does not really know the other players roll eyes and think I joined the wrong group.

GM Rule 3/ Stop worry about everything you got enough to worry about

They move on into the adventure and the scene is set, however coordination is so much harder in Virtual Roleplaying (VRP) again the visual clues are not there so you can look at someone and grab there attention, you need to say there name wait till they respond then go into your brief. You get used to this but occasionally a player is AFK not really listening, and you just need to move on and not get bogged down.

To the point where one player was AFK for 5-10 minutes, I just plowed on through with the other characters, of course it wasn't a critical combat moment, but you have too otherwise you lose momentum.

GM Rule 4/ Players which disappear let them catch up by getting other player to explain it give you time to organise other stuff and you don't accidently give any further advice.

Rolemaster and mathematics, fortunately I am pretty fast with the maths, I learn long ago in Rolemaster with 'statics' you don't need to know the exact number it failed you can work out in the 'tens' if they are even close to a success. If they succeed that when you need to work out the 'ones', on how much by.

There was a lot of static manoeuvres in the lead up to a adventure, and the axebridge quick rules for certain events helped as well. This I believe kept the game flowing however I constantly would get stuck trying to reopen the FRP page for static manoeuvres success or fails.

Yes RMC has the table in the library but when you got two monitors full one more table seems a bit hard. I need to work out a better system here.

Axebridge
A good scenario but some times the details are hard to find. The adventure is made for a linear execution and you know how players love to screw that up. Some important notes are written, in areas which they have done or yet to do. This is where a NPC note index could be improved. A series of links from the NPC to certain sections where they pop up would of proved invaluable. Time is the essence in VRPG and needing to find the information is paramount when dealing with a quantity of information that Axebridge has. So module makers please use the idea of linking information to NPC e.g. NPC first meeting, NPC second meeting, NPC found here.


What players live for

Finally the players get to the stage for the first combat, unfortunately it is about 12pm but I not heard a player pipe up they need to go to bed, so I press on thinking we can get one combat piece in.

Some guys had a little idea from last week some had forgotten even to the point at looking at the Combat tracker not their character sheet.

I learnt some interest thing here, if people put numbers into parry for DB even directed spells are affected, so you need to watch the bonuses here carefully. Also training the character to know their modifiers is a must, they need to plug these in before they roll, you can get them to go through what they put in but it save you valuable time and makes them think during other peoples round.

GM Rule 5/ Don't always believe FMG knows best check what it is doing

On the note above, I realised something almost last minute I had bumped up the NPC/creature parry and the person rolled small, but the parry defence brought it down to a Fumble. It wasn't of course so I need to relook at Rule 5 above and fortunately I realised my mistake before the player rolled for a fumble.

I need to train the guys a little more or throw it back to them what they need to do otherwise you doing to much load. Don't worry too much you can adjust the roles in you resolver if you miss something or they have missed something.

A back and forward button on player turn would be nice (for delayed actions), as cycling increases the round and drag and drop is a pain.

1am they win

As a GM I did stuff up in some my combat rounds the NPC/creature does not use some of it valuable tricks and when I go to it is too late.

I do not know how the players felt it went and would love some feedback which I will ask, was it too fast, too slow. Too disjointed how could I improve.

For my first time I thought I did ok

Chris_Seal
December 19th, 2011, 21:53
First RPG night.
Axebridge
A good scenario but some times the details are hard to find. The adventure is made for a linear execution and you know how players love to screw that up. Some important notes are written, in areas which they have done or yet to do. This is where a NPC note index could be improved. A series of links from the NPC to certain sections where they pop up would of proved invaluable. Time is the essence in VRPG and needing to find the information is paramount when dealing with a quantity of information that Axebridge has. So module makers please use the idea of linking information to NPC e.g. NPC first meeting, NPC second meeting, NPC found here.


Thanks for the feedback :) .

I hope you enjoy the rest of the adventure.

Cheers
Chris

Ardem
January 10th, 2012, 02:42
Well the 2nd RPG night was set up with a weeks notice and everyone agreeing to that date. I did not send up my normal followup of a Friday email and one Sunday morning.

Hey we all commited responsible adults. Well I guess not.

One player with my standard 2 hour sms to my brothers was followed up with a sorry I am at a friends place and won't be home NPC me.

GM Rule 6/ Outline to your players beforehand that it is common respect to leave as much notice as possible before they tell you that they cannot make it.

Why am I making a big deal out of it, he can't make it the night can go on. That is find but as a GM who like to be prepared and prep things. I got to quickly figure out how am I going to NPC a player in Fantasy Grounds.

NPCing a regular player
Not as easy as it seems, the reasons are varied. The first being you are not as familar to the character sheet as a player, or if he is a caster to the multitude of spells at his disposal. There is also the addage as GM you know a lot more then the player, and thirdly any risk to the player in combat is at your fault.

One of the member suggested a player should NPC, but I stubbornly said it is ok I will do it. I think this was a mistake and would love to know what other GMs do in this area.

I have two monitors with FG sread acoss both screens, I mention this as any GM knows screen realestate is at a premium. tables/storylines/maps/combat screen etc cover it. Running an NPC in FG as another FG cannot be always displayed and you need to alt tab, since both FGs look the same it can get very confusing.

I tended to work as much as possible in the GM side including rolls. It was another complexity I could of done without for the night. Perhaps next time I think I will give it to another player to NPC.

Module v your own adventure
My normal regime is to go through things two hours before, but due to various issue including a earlier start time. I did not have this prep time. As described above I am using the axebridge adventure. So simple details like the Vicitm's mother, does not instantly spring to mind.
So when one of my player gets it corrrect faster then I can look it up, only for me to not find it in the mirade of notes and then say it wrong anyway. But the GM is never wrong so her name is permantly etched (Chris all minor characters in the people listing could of been helpful)

This is where module playing can be a little bit on your toes, when you get question like. Where is her husband? Your first reaction is to say "How the hell do I know?" You need to supress it fast. (I do not recall reading there was a husband, or if he was he not a main character, what if he pops up in other notes) ARRRggghhhh!

When you make the adventure or working off the fly the story is created as you go alon or you already know unwittingly the minor details. Yup she is a widow, I know cause I created her, or in the process of creating this person history as I speak.

Modules get risky around this, another example is an item which is apart of the main plot. I forogt such an item, mainly due to the all over nature of the adventure and players not running it as a linear fashion, perhaps that a GM issue with lack of hand holding in the direction I want. I forgot such a main plot item and when it was needed. Whoops, oh well I will change the storyline. I used to play a lot of shadowrun modules and learnt modules are guides not set in stone. If you make a mistake, change the module, try not to back up. I done that in the past and it confuser the player more then you.

GM Rule 7/ Adapt not only to the player mistake but your own mistake, keep the flow going.

Rolemaster is deadly
All games have this player, a player that plays a character that in combat situation is tacticaly wrong. In some games I find D&D style tends to be forgiven role master is not what I call forgiving.

A thief that plays like a warrior, a warrior that tries to play as a thief. In rolemaster if these players don't learn quickly they will find themselves dead. As a GM there is always that line, do you make the challenge and let chips fall as they may, or do you bring them to the edge but keep them alive barely.

I had a foot in both camps that night, this player survived just only to follow up the next attack leading the group again and getting another painful lesson. I don't think this player will survive next rpg session.

The guys were much better at checking out there Offensive Bonuses, and also there activity percentages. But we still have a long way to go where I am not doing the majority of this thinking around this.


FG strangeness
This week FG strangeness once again was in combat. A missile attack had a -40 DB, and I could not locate this -40 DB anywhere. I will need to look into this.

lachancery
January 10th, 2012, 18:39
GM Rule 6/ Outline to your players beforehand that it is common respect to leave as much notice as possible before they tell you that they cannot make it.
Attendance has always been the bane of RPG (especially over VTT). In my experience, the cause is usually a toss between life commitments and self-discipline/respect. This issue is lesser a bit on a regular weekly game, but if the sessions are further apart or irregular, sending a reminder email helps in either getting earlier cancellation notices and getting players to remember to adjust their schedule. Sadly, it's human nature...


NPCing a regular player
It was another complexity I could of done without for the night. Perhaps next time I think I will give it to another player to NPC.
I have handled/seen it done both ways. Ultimately, smooth flow/pacing and immersion is what creates the best games. The GM bears the brunt of the responsibility to ensure both, and has to manage tactical logistics, such as the combat tracker. Games where the players managed the absent characters were better, overall, because of the improved focus of the GM.

That said, managing multiple characters requires a player comfortable with. When running multiple FGs, the easiest cue to track which one you're on is the dice color. If you're managing players while being GM, pick & stick to a dice color that screams GM to you (blood red in my case :D ).


Rolemaster is deadly
I educate and fudge as needed. Part of the fun of Rolemaster is learning the tactical options available. When some players are new to RM, I sometimes briefly interrupt the combat flow to teach options. Rolls for criticals in RM can have a huge impact on the outcome. Since the GM rolls are hidden, it's easy to shift the results. Whether you let a roll that would kill a player outright or not, depends on the nature of the game and the players. Like you, I have fudged rolls to support the game, rather than enforce rolls regardless of the impact on the game.


This week FG strangeness once again was in combat. A missile attack had a -40 DB, and I could not locate this -40 DB anywhere. I will need to look into this.
When you refer to DB, I'm assuming you mean the defender's parry? If that's the case, parrying DB in RM is only against a single target. Confirm the target is set in the combat tracker beside the shield/parry line. Attacks from others will (per the rules) not use parry DB. If there is no target, either drag the name of the attacker or have the player click the token on the map - it automatically sets all weapons and parry to that target.

Ardem
January 10th, 2012, 21:40
On DB this was done as specificed above. There was nothing in the parry section of the target yet there was a -40 DB in the combat resolver, and not sure where it came from. I had to unclick it each time.

lachancery
January 10th, 2012, 22:50
On DB this was done as specificed above. There was nothing in the parry section of the target yet there was a -40 DB in the combat resolver, and not sure where it came from. I had to unclick it each time.
Aaah! I thought it was the reverse. I noticed something similar when using monsters the Creatures & Treasures book. In my case, it was simple orcs who had a DB 30 value in the book, but that was meant to include the shield, so when it defended against an enemy, it had the shield effect twice - once for the parry, and once in the base DB.

I'll run some tests to see if I can reproduce this behavior.

Ardem
January 12th, 2012, 03:42
Found it and it was correct, the players had an easier time of it then I should of let them.

It was the creatures natural DB and higher for a specific reason 'not adding spoilers'. I sometime forget DB is not just about hitting the target, it also modifies damage.

NEPHiLiX
January 17th, 2012, 07:03
NPCing a regular player
I have two monitors with FG sread acoss both screens, I mention this as any GM knows screen realestate is at a premium. tables/storylines/maps/combat screen etc cover it. Running an NPC in FG as another FG cannot be always displayed and you need to alt tab, since both FGs look the same it can get very confusing.

I tended to work as much as possible in the GM side including rolls. It was another complexity I could of done without for the night. Perhaps next time I think I will give it to another player to NPC.

I do the exact same thing--I have a 42" and 32" side by side, and I found that what works best is to always leave a gap in my GM instance about 2" from the leftmost part of my left monitor and to leave 2" from the rightmost part of my right monitor for my player instance. That way, I always know that GM instance is on the right (there are are more selectable fields on the GM instance and they are visible this way even when you're using your player instance), and the Player instance is always to the left.


Rolemaster is deadly
All games have this player, a player that plays a character that in combat situation is tacticaly wrong. In some games I find D&D style tends to be forgiven role master is not what I call forgiving.

A thief that plays like a warrior, a warrior that tries to play as a thief. In rolemaster if these players don't learn quickly they will find themselves dead. As a GM there is always that line, do you make the challenge and let chips fall as they may, or do you bring them to the edge but keep them alive barely.

I had a foot in both camps that night, this player survived just only to follow up the next attack leading the group again and getting another painful lesson. I don't think this player will survive next rpg session.

The guys were much better at checking out there Offensive Bonuses, and also there activity percentages. But we still have a long way to go where I am not doing the majority of this thinking around this.

I reveal all rolls, always. I want my players to know that GM tyranny and intervention will always be minimal, which they like because they realize how much depends on them and that I won't fudge rolls one way or another. In any case, though, you're right, RM is deadly sometimes even if your players do EVERYTHING right. I have a player who has a bad reputation for getting hit with an OER when he's full parrying and maximized his defensive advantages as part of a wider tactical plan. That said, here's a solution you could consider--it essentially allows your players to determine when you have to reroll a roll. That way the GM doesn't ever have to wonder if he's intervening too much. What you do need to decide on though is how often they can invoke this player power over their PCs:

Give them a pool of say 10 Karma/Fate Points, or 1 every time they advance 1-3 levels depending on your sense/preference as a GM. What this works out to is the ability of a player to say "Whoa, that crit is going to destroy my character! Screw that, I'm going to use a Fate Point and have you reroll that". I allow my players to use it whenever they want, except to reroll attack rolls or criticals they inflict (or attack rolls against them, crits notwithstanding). The beauty of this system is that you get to keep all your rolls and they're the ones buying your intervention on behalf of their character. And if they use them too quickly or stupidly: they pay the price by increasing the chances that they may not have one when they need one. On that note, you'd be shocked how many times my players will take a crit that I feel terrible about dishing out (like a shattered elbow) rather than having to use a scarce fate point.

Ardem
January 17th, 2012, 09:26
I really like that idea about fate points, you could also work it as divine intervention points. How many points have suited your players, I like the idea of 1 per level, but unsure if this is enough.

I did not fudge any figures in the last game fortunately but it did make me concerned to reveal my die rolls. I got high hit rolls but small criticals fortunately for that player.

GunnarGreybeard
January 17th, 2012, 12:02
I usually include a good amount of Harn in my RoleMaster games so I use HarnMaster's Piety Points for what others might refer to as Fate Points. For those not familiar with HarnMaster, Piety Points are basically points that can be used to call for Divine Intervention. You can "replenish" them by doing certain acts that are are looked upon favorably by your particular deity. Some acts gain you more points than others, just as some requests burn more points. Basically the more help you need, the more its gonna cost you.

NEPHiLiX
January 17th, 2012, 12:49
I really like that idea about fate points, you could also work it as divine intervention points. How many points have suited your players, I like the idea of 1 per level, but unsure if this is enough.

I generally start my players with 3 and grant them 1 every level. This seems to be a decent mix (I should probably eliminate the "start with 3" option now though...all my players are veterans and hardly need the buffer). In any case, some players will end up with almost all of them unspent by 20th level, resulting in some PCs with 15 or so at that level while others will have 3-5. The beauty of the FP system is that, even when players have a bunch stored up, they still get sore when they have to use 1. More than that, I've had players burn through 3-4 on a single critical against them, which can be a real wake-up call if they ever get complacent because of the number of FPs they have stored up:

GM: "Ouch, that's a 99 on the crit table, definitely a kill".
Player: "I'll use a Fate Point obviously".
GM: "Yeowch...just rolled an 86, still a kill on that E slash".
Player: "Oh for...fate point".
GM: "88".
Player: "Your dice are assholes. Fate point".
GM: "Sorry man, 91".
Player: <stares angrily at GM as he ticks off another fate point without looking at his character sheet>
GM: "17! There you go!"
Player: "Yeah and it only cost me four levels worth of fate points--and all because of your bastard dice".

lachancery
January 17th, 2012, 15:12
Player: "Yeah and it only cost me four levels worth of fate points--and all because of your bastard dice".
LOL!! I've also used the fate points idea in the past. Some game systems, like HARP, makes you buy fate points as you buy your skills. That could apply very well to RM as well. It puts more control in the players' hands over their life expectancy. ;)

I had the reverse happen in my game on Sunday night. I put together what I thought was going to be a very dangerous encounter for the players: a strong type V undead vs a party of 4 5th level characters.

First round, the character on watch fails his perception roll and barely has time to grab his weapon to parry the incoming charge, still sitting down. We're off to a good setup. Monster's first attack roll = 163(+110OB), critical E, but I rolled low on the critical: -10 wound, no stunning.

Every roll I made for the whole combat afterwards was below 40. Since the monster was rather single-minded, the players got pretty good at guessing who the target was going to be and put high parry.

The players did not know about undead regeneration, but for roleplay reasons, they ended up burning the body... I did not even get to see their reaction when the undead would have gotten back up to attack again.

For an encounter that was meant to scare the players (part of the main story arc, it's a friendly NPC they had met earlier which got turned), it was rather tame and anti-climactic. This doesn't happen very often with RM, but I wished afterwards I had increased the lethality of that encounter.

Ardem
January 18th, 2012, 02:18
I like the idea to purchase fate points rather then give, I think start of with three is a good amount. I would say about 10 Development points would be about right for 1 fate point.

I will put this to the guys and see what they think about his idea, or if they prefer the whole live or die approach.

If a character does die, how do you guys handle a reroll. Do you reroll it at the same level as the players or perhaps a level below. The reason I ask is, I often think rerolls are an ability to exploit and makes dying has a little less meaning. Where as if you reroll a level under the other character then dying is even more a painful

Or am I just evil.

edit: I reread the post and decide I must of rolled a 01 for communications, used a fate point and made the post a little clearer.

NEPHiLiX
January 18th, 2012, 03:18
I like the idea to purchase fate points rather then give, I think start of with three is a good amount. I would say about 10 Development points would be about right for 1 fate point.

That may work using 10DPs--though it seems steep to me. Maybe it wouldn't seem so bad if you let your players buy them by putting 5DPs toward it per level (thus allowing them to buy 1 every 2 levels). On the other hand, after 4 levels of steady buying FPs, that player has basically just lost 1 full level of skill development (40DPs). If you really like this 10DP/FP system but are still afraid your players will abuse their FPs regardless, remind them whenever they're about to spend a FP that if they plan on replacing it next level that it will cost them the equivalent of about 1/4 of a level.


I will put this to the guys and see what they think about his idea, or if they prefer the whole live or die approach.

If a character does die, how do you guys handle a reroll, do you reroll it at the same level as the players or perhaps a level below. The reason I ask if I often thing rerolls are an ability to exploit and making dying a little less meaningless, where as if you reroll a level under then dying is even more a little painful

Or am I just evil.

That actually is entirely up to you. I often do go with the -1 level approach, but sometimes I feel bad because I know how much time goes into making a new RM character. Some of my players take days putting their PCs together (I insist on a clear demeanor, character description, motivation, etc), so often the death of that character (and the subsequent loss of all that invested work), and the prospect of having to do it all over again, is painful enough.

Also, there's the fact that that dead PC's allies benefit from the battle XPs (-1 cut) *and* get to loot the body of their fallen ally, boosting them up further. Thus it becomes possible that the -1 rule can become a de facto -2 if the party levels up after the battle.

In any case, I don't really have a rule for this...it depends at what level they die: my decision for a character dying at 4th level is entirely different from a character dying at 35th (nobody in my campaign makes PCs that start out at high level...I will stop the campaign and shift to another one instead and pick it up only when that person has worked up another PC that they feel can pair up with the previous high level campaign).

Ardem
January 18th, 2012, 03:27
I screwed my face in confusion when you said 10 is too steep then I realised that Classic DP is a lot smaller (I think) I am using FRP rules, with my FRP extention. Most players got about 60 DP points.

As for the FRP extention, I will be releasing it after this adventure currently finished. At least it had been play tested once. However there will be a catch since the 'Rules mod' has copyright material (necessary for character building like the RMC is), I think I can only release that seperately via a pm from the requester with a photo of them holding the FRP or RMSS book. I hope this steers me away from the copy protection people, atleast attempting to do the right thing.

So the ext can be release no issue, the rule mod file will need to be requested.

NEPHiLiX
January 18th, 2012, 05:42
I screwed my face in confusion when you said 10 is too steep then I realised that Classic DP is a lot smaller (I think) I am using FRP rules, with my FRP extention. Most players got about 60 DP points.

As for the FRP extention, I will be releasing it after this adventure currently finished. At least it had been play tested once. However there will be a catch since the 'Rules mod' has copyright material (necessary for character building like the RMC is), I think I can only release that seperately via a pm from the requester with a photo of them holding the FRP or RMSS book. I hope this steers me away from the copy protection people, atleast attempting to do the right thing.

So the ext can be release no issue, the rule mod file will need to be requested.

Oh yeah, I suppose I should have prefaced with what system I use: I use 2ndEd RM, haha.

Did you put together the FRP extension yourself? I'm not all that interested in FRP, but if you ever need a hand putting together some crit tables from the 2ndEd companions (Acid, Ripping/Tearing, Nether, Neuro, Essence, Plasma, Disintegration, etc) let me know. I'm no programmer (by any means) but I can enter text and effects into Notepad++ easily enough and would love to have them combined into an FG extension.

Ardem
January 18th, 2012, 06:38
Yes most of the FRP extension is my work, I have had some help from Trenloe as well. And looking at other people work in how they have done things, although an extension is far easier to make then a ruleset from scratch.

I had only ever played RMSS and RMFRP, never played 2nd edition.

I would not know the differences, I do know that there is virutally no difference between RMFRP and RMSS with the compliment of standard book included.


The thing with tables they are copyrighted, so it gets a little tricky in what you can do then push out. That is why with the .mod file I specifiedthat I would need some proof you own FRP or RMSS.

lachancery
January 18th, 2012, 08:48
If a character does die, how do you guys handle a reroll. Do you reroll it at the same level as the players or perhaps a level below. The reason I ask is, I often think rerolls are an ability to exploit and makes dying has a little less meaning. Where as if you reroll a level under the other character then dying is even more a painful

Or am I just evil.
I have run the full spectrum there, from restarting at level 1 to not losing a single XP (of the dead character). In my older years, I have embraced that role playing is entertainment and meant to be enjoyable for all, or it will fall apart. I figure out at the beginning of the game where I want the fun to lie in a specific game and I communicate it to players when inviting them. I stay true to that core throughout my choice of house rules, including death.

For example, I'm currently GMing a game in Middle-Earth around the time the North kingdom (Arnor/Arthedain) collapses and shortly before the Balrog is released in Moria. I chose this game to be classic epic high fantasy, in spirit with The Lord of the Rings (or Star Wars - in scifi terms). Players are on an accelerated XP growth and if someone died, I would likely have the replacement character at the same level. I would try to make the death impactful on the epic story being unfolded, again in spirit of the deaths in Tolkien's books.

In another game, I could go to the opposite end where I communicate survival and prosperity is the key challenge for players to earn. Every level gained would be an accomplishment for the player, and sonwould be a new treasure or wealth.

I guess it's just like raising kids: be consistent and stay true to the goal. 8)

NEPHiLiX
January 18th, 2012, 08:54
Yes most of the FRP extension is my work, I have had some help from Trenloe as well. And looking at other people work in how they have done things, although an extension is far easier to make then a ruleset from scratch.

I had only ever played RMSS and RMFRP, never played 2nd edition.

I would not know the differences, I do know that there is virutally no difference between RMFRP and RMSS with the compliment of standard book included.


The thing with tables they are copyrighted, so it gets a little tricky in what you can do then push out. That is why with the .mod file I specifiedthat I would need some proof you own FRP or RMSS.

With respect to the critical tables, there are virtually no differences from what I've seen (some re-wording here and there, the adoption of a pictoral system to represent the various status effects, etc) aside from the fact that there are TONS more crit tables in RM2ndEd.

As for your copyright concern: a picture of someone holding a copy of the book will not shield anyone from copyright infringement--only the express permission of the copyright holder can do that which, from what I gather, is exceptionally difficult to come by with ICE as it pertains especially to RM 2ndEd (though also to RMFRP). Such things therefore can never be publicly distributed (which is why I suggested a mutual personal effort to create a mod that adds criticals (from tables contained in books that I own--RM2ed) to our instances of FG, which as far as I know is perfectly legal).

In any case as I said, I only use RM 2ndEd and am not interested in (nor do I own) RMFRP, though I appreciate your work.

Ardem
January 19th, 2012, 23:33
There is another thought to the .mod information for character building, which is the only ? on copyright, a bunch of advice how to build the character not much different to what you get in RMC. I could be personally commission with no fee to help a person create the .mod file using there book for personal use. Which is no different then what I did for myself.

Seriously if they want to drag me over the coals, when it only potential will help increase their sale of RMC ruleset as you need RMC or the FRP extension will not work. I hope they are smarter then that. Its not like I am publishing the book in pdf.

Dakadin
January 20th, 2012, 01:44
You could provide a template of the mod without any copyright data. Then provide instructions with samples that don't use any real information. That way people could make their own modules that will work with the extension. It will mean everyone having to create their own.

The 4E ruleset has everyone creating their own modules using the 4E Parser. That way people aren't sharing copyright material and they can still get the modules they want if they are willing to put in the effort.

Ardem
January 20th, 2012, 02:02
That is a great idea, I can use page numbers to where certain information would go.

Something like "Enter page 15, Paragraph 5, data here" And still be able to include in the mod the extra tables and drag and drop data needed in character creation, which are not copyright restricted.

Awesome thanks for the idea. Thanks!

NEPHiLiX
January 20th, 2012, 02:28
You could provide a template of the mod without any copyright data. Then provide instructions with samples that don't use any real information. That way people could make their own modules that will work with the extension. It will mean everyone having to create their own.

The 4E ruleset has everyone creating their own modules using the 4E Parser. That way people aren't sharing copyright material and they can still get the modules they want if they are willing to put in the effort.

An RM Parser would be amazing! I'd love to make a mod for all the crit tables that aren't included with FG...

Trenloe
January 20th, 2012, 04:10
An RM Parser would be amazing! I'd love to make a mod for all the crit tables that aren't included with FG...
The problem is, what input format would the parser use?

The 4E parser works (until WotC change the website) because it needs a DnD Insider subscription and logs into the website with that and scapes the data from the 4E Encyclopaedia.

So, it only really leaves us with the option of a copy and paste from PDF versions of the rulebook - which if we have the paper versions we'd then have to fork out extra money for the PDFs or do scans/OCR ourselves.

Or, we work out a certain format that can be used to recreate items for a module and then make sure the data is in this format - and then create a parser.... Lots of work and subject to data entry/format errors.

Perhaps a better idea is to create a module template as suggested by Dakadin and expanded on by Ardem to allow people to put their own copy/paste info together. This would still be subject to data entry/format errors but wouldn't require the work of a parser and a bespoke data format we'd all have to agree on and learn.

Ardem
January 20th, 2012, 04:23
The way I plan to do it is not use a parser. Too much work for the small amount of information necessary.

When I release the mod file, and the changes will only need to be made to the common.xml

I will create a special reference point so you just need to do a find. which with be RMentry: followed by the Page and Paragraph.

So all you will need is a notepad or notepad++ for the smarties. Know how to do a find and either replace the section via ocr text or type it. Again its not about recreating the book just enough information to help you players with quick references and character creation.

Without the text releasing numbers on a page in tables cannot be copyrighted, as it needs to be in a context. So the really hard stuff will be done for you, just need to give it headings and text to go with it.

This is a great idea and allows me to release the .mod without worry now.

Trenloe
January 20th, 2012, 04:42
The way I plan to do it is not use a parser. Too much work for the small amount of information necessary.

When I release the mod file, and the changes will only need to be made to the common.xml

I will create a special reference point so you just need to do a find. which with be RMentry: followed by the Page and Paragraph.

So all you will need is a notepad or notepad++ for the smarties. Know how to do a find and either replace the section via ocr text or type it. Again its not about recreating the book just enough information to help you players with quick references and character creation.

Without the text releasing numbers on a page in tables cannot be copyrighted, as it needs to be in a context. So the really hard stuff will be done for you, just need to give it headings and text to go with it.
Yep, reckon this is the best way to go... :)

Dakadin
January 20th, 2012, 04:46
Making a parser for the attack tables probably wouldn't be too bad. Unfortunately, the crit tables would be very difficult parse for a couple reasons. First the tables are broken down into a variable number of lines per entry without much to identify it from the next entry. Also you would need to be able to parse the results of that entry so you could get the details like stun rounds, etc. Now what might make more sense would be an application that assists with the data entry by allowing you to enter the crit results for each table and have it create the module for the table.

NEPHiLiX
January 20th, 2012, 07:30
Making a parser for the attack tables probably wouldn't be too bad. Unfortunately, the crit tables would be very difficult parse for a couple reasons. First the tables are broken down into a variable number of lines per entry without much to identify it from the next entry. Also you would need to be able to parse the results of that entry so you could get the details like stun rounds, etc. Now what might make more sense would be an application that assists with the data entry by allowing you to enter the crit results for each table and have it create the module for the table.

From what I can gather, and as wonderful as that would be, I think we'll have to be contented with less automated approaches. I absolutely don't mind doing grunt work (copy/paste or manually entering info), but I'm not even an amateur programmer so, like I said: if anyone wants to lend their technical skills, I can take care of the more tedious stuff (data entry into Notepad++) and we can share the results with all contributors.

Dakadin
January 20th, 2012, 08:09
I can probably get you a basic template of the XML for the crit tables so you can make a module for yourself if you won't be too intimidated by the XML. Let me know if you want me to put that together for you.

NEPHiLiX
January 20th, 2012, 08:32
I can probably get you a basic template of the XML for the crit tables so you can make a module for yourself if you won't be too intimidated by the XML. Let me know if you want me to put that together for you.

That would be amazing...I'll do a table then send it back to you for testing? If it works I'll get working on individual companion by companion mods (RMC III/V/VI/etc). Any idea about the feasibility of linking new crits with standard weapons (secondary crits such as for a firesword, acid-dripping morningstar, etc), or is that too ambitious?

Dakadin
January 20th, 2012, 15:10
Actually, I will help you so you can test it yourself that way no copyright material is shared. There might be a bit of a learning curve at first but once you get the hang of it you should be able to create them. It will take me a bit to get together an explanation of the XML layout for the tables.

Right now it would be a bit ambitious linking these new crit tables but I have some ideas on how to hopefully make it a possibility.

lachancery
January 20th, 2012, 17:24
Right now it would be a bit ambitious linking these new crit tables but I have some ideas on how to hopefully make it a possibility.
We'll eventually need that functionality to support core rules, such as second critical roll on the slaying table when using a weapon of slaying on a normal size creature.

I'm becoming more familiar every week with FG's scripting. I've started digging through the RMC ruleset to understand how the resolver works... [crossed fingers]

lachancery
January 20th, 2012, 19:58
Any idea about the feasibility of linking new crits with standard weapons (secondary crits such as for a firesword, acid-dripping morningstar, etc), or is that too ambitious?
I've got an idea to implement secondary and replacement crit tables that I'm investigating.

Something that can be done now is adding a new attack table that resolves on a new critical table, for say, a fire whip (Balrog style).

Dakadin
January 20th, 2012, 20:58
That's a great idea! I just looked and the critical tables to be used are defined with the attack table. So it should just require a copy of the attack table and changing the critical used. The same thing could be done to handle the Large/Super Large critical tables also.

lachancery
January 20th, 2012, 21:42
That's a great idea! I just looked and the critical tables to be used are defined with the attack table. So it should just require a copy of the attack table and changing the critical used. The same thing could be done to handle the Large/Super Large critical tables also.
Hmm. I'm not seeing how this could work for criticals against large/super-large creatures. These tables are used instead of the normal critical tables based on an attribute of the target. The good news is that the data already exists on the creature records. The Lua scripts of the resolver must read the crit modifier field and swap the lookup table.

For the other tables (magic, mithril, holy & slaying), an attribute of the weapon must also be considered (which currently doesn't exist, unless I have missed it). It would be simple enough to add such an attribute, which could be considered when redirecting to the large/super-large tables. For magic & mithril, it's simple enough - it redirects all the time. For holy & slaying, the easiest is to have a second entry for the same weapon. The player rolls with the holy/slaying when it's appropriate, otherwise rolling on the normal weapon.

Yet another level of complexity is holy & slaying vs normal size creatures. The normal critical (slash, puncture, crush, etc.) must first be resolved, and then there is a secondary critical on the holy or slaying tables. Referring back to both the target's crit modifier (ie. it's not large/super-large) and the new weapon attribute (it is holy/slaying), can be the anchor to call the secondary critical.

To implement elemental weapon, the same weapon attribute (holy, slaying) could be used to say it's a fire/ice weapon, and the script would resolve a secondary critical.

Convoluted, but implementing it in this order would work.

Dakadin
January 20th, 2012, 23:02
I agree. I was just thinking of a solution that could be used until a longer term solution could be put in place. It would require some manual work but would make the other tables accessible.

For a longer term solution, it might work to just add extra options to the radial menu for Large/Super Large. Then they could be selected instead of the standard critical table. Once the table is loaded, the appropriate column could be selected depending on if it is Normal, Holy, etc. It would also allow doing the secondary criticals. This wouldn't solve the elemental weapons issue but should at least partially automate most normal situations.

I think I can pull this part off fairly quickly. I looked at it once after I got stuck trying to do a Large critical in a combat. It seemed pretty straight forward at the time. I just had some other things that were going to be more valuable to me so I gave them a higher priority. I actually have a list of a few other things I would like to see added in addition to these.

NEPHiLiX
January 21st, 2012, 00:33
Actually, I will help you so you can test it yourself that way no copyright material is shared. There might be a bit of a learning curve at first but once you get the hang of it you should be able to create them. It will take me a bit to get together an explanation of the XML layout for the tables.

Right now it would be a bit ambitious linking these new crit tables but I have some ideas on how to hopefully make it a possibility.

I'm not averse to learning how to do this, especially considering the payoff, it's just that not knowing where to start and which direction to head can make everything seem extremely daunting--so your help is *most* welcome.

lachancery
January 21st, 2012, 01:54
For a longer term solution, it might work to just add extra options to the radial menu for Large/Super Large. Then they could be selected instead of the standard critical table. Once the table is loaded, the appropriate column could be selected depending on if it is Normal, Holy, etc. It would also allow doing the secondary criticals. This wouldn't solve the elemental weapons issue but should at least partially automate most normal situations.

That's a brilliant idea! If the GM option "Resolve Clears Stack" is turned off, the GM can go back to resolve the roll, and use the radial to select the secondary critical on the large or super-large table. As a phase 2 of this design, cascading radial options, like the pointers on the map, could be used to select a secondary critical on another critical table. The simple beauty of it is that the player roll is still in the chat window, so the same roll can be dragged onto the secondary critical table. Simple, elegant, flexible... I love it!

Dakadin
January 21st, 2012, 03:47
Ok. I will make it the next thing I work on then.

Dakadin
January 21st, 2012, 23:04
Lachancery, I figured it out so I will have an update to Extend RMC within the next week that will include the Large and Super Large critical tables in the radial menu. I also have an idea on how to do the other secondary criticals but I still need to see if it will work.

NEPHiLiX, I will start a new thread (since we hijacked this one) once I am ready to explain how to create your own critical tables. It will be after I get the next release of Extend RMC done.

NEPHiLiX
January 21st, 2012, 23:43
Lachancery, I figured it out so I will have an update to Extend RMC within the next week that will include the Large and Super Large critical tables in the radial menu. I also have an idea on how to do the other secondary criticals but I still need to see if it will work.

NEPHiLiX, I will start a new thread (since we hijacked this one) once I am ready to explain how to create your own critical tables. It will be after I get the next release of Extend RMC done.

That's fantastic (on both counts)! Very excited...

Dakadin
January 22nd, 2012, 03:38
Oh and you don't have to take off the "Resolve Clears Stack" option. The attack table still stays with the appropriate column and row selected until you resolve another item on the stack. You can do a high roll lightning bolt result for an example of a table that already allows multiple criticals for one attack. The attack table will actually process multiple criticals so making an additional table for weapons with secondary criticals is definitely an option.

Ardem
February 13th, 2012, 04:20
Game 3

This time we had another man down after a few postponements and date changes. We started into the meat of Axebridge scenario.

This session combat was thick, the smell of blood filled the air and the stench of the players BO was getting heavy.

This session I let one of the more experienced player run the character that was away. This worked well, I was able to concentrate on the game a lot more, and there was no concerns will using my extra knowledge to the players advantage.

We also used the Extend Extension from Dakadin with dice tower and RR included, as well as the players getting a full test of the XP addition for FRP.

Both worked well however Dakadin version broke the group bug fix that Trenloe had done. I think I need to incorporate that group bug fix into FRP since it need grouping to work.

After a initial house keeping session on some of the new features and how the players would keep track of there XP we got started. I must say the player keep track of there own XP was a great boon, it kept them busy between dice rolls and allow me to focus on moving the combat.

Combat went fairly smooth but as with rolemaster combat is more of a tactical and drawn out affair. To give you a picture the guys were able to complete 3 combat sequences in the 5 hour session. The action was not all combat I would say 1/2 time was devoted to combat. I would say this is a little faster then a tabletop session, I remember some table top session where you only get through 1 or 2 fights per game.
Rolemaster is aimed at gritty realism not hack slash and kill a million beasts.

The guys this week improved on there adding of modifiers they even started to tell me the things I had been doing wrong. So there was a little less hand holding. They even started making tactical choices including the thief last week, where I started off saying are you going to play like a thief or will I be putting you in a wooden coffin this week.

They guys enjoyed the session, but it always seem they start off quiet and a little rocky but something clicks at a point and people are fully involved.

Some of the funnies this week, will try to avoid spoilers here.

The halfling cleric (yes it is unusual) would not perform a certain action which the other in the group instantly did for fear of death. But it was against his characters principles. This lead to a combat where a very powerful being broke the nose of the dwarf. You got to love rolemaster and the critical descriptions alone, the dwarf afterward glares at the halfling who is apologizing for nearly killing them all. Same battle the almost unkillable being died to an arrow from the thief with a 99 on a critic. Highfives were given all around.

The dwarf with a -6 for perception and normally also rolls poorly on every perception roll, that the group has decided not to rely on him in looking after anything. The last time he did a corpse escaped his grasp while he was sitting next to it. Anyway he spotted a trap which they all had missed that would of likely hurt them all, on a very hard perception roll.

Mr Fizz Bang the mage known for electrical talents (not) zaps himself twice and the wall once, not sure he hit any creatures this session.

The Thief draws his scimitar for the first time to hit a creature and fumbles on his first roll, losing the sword in the process.

Yet each time I think these players are ready to die, one of them steps up to get a good critical, and I still manage to roll shocking criticals. the dwarf took 5 A criticals but other then the broken nose seem to get away with nothing more then a few bruising.

I am looking forward to the possible end of this adventure in the next session.

lachancery
February 14th, 2012, 07:31
Sounds fun, Ardem! Here's some stuff from my Sunday game (which has been running since last October). Characters are now level 6 & 7.

The players got conned & robbed two sessions ago. They have since been chasing their robber. Because they are double-riding (2 players per horse) in a hilly region, I am getting them to make riding maneuvers. One of the player rolls a nasty fumble and falls to the ground. The crit reads "if player wears no helm, he's dead". Luckily, that character did wear a helm. He's now scared of riding horses.

That same character, back in December, when he was nastily wounded and operating at -50, was running away from orcs pursuing the party. Because of his wounds and the rough terrain they were going through, I had made him roll a Movement MM. He fumbled that one too, fell flat on his face, broke his nose, and was at a further -25.

Yesterday, during a confrontation with some of the highwaymen, another player is galloping to chase one that's running away. He rolls -119 on his riding skill and gets a nasty back wound with cartilage & muscle damage.

Yesterday, the guys, exasperated with their poor rolls, were saying "I'm never trying to swim in this game" and "I now have tremendous respect for Legolas & Gimli for running like that without hurting themselves".

Sooo, thinking back on this thread, I put Destiny Points in place in that game... :)

Ardem
March 5th, 2012, 06:24
Game 4.

Completion of the Axebridge scenario.

We were down two players, however one came in later also we had a new player join the party.

The new player had to sit around and get the feel of the team, as her character was put in an ideal start point, which they had not reached yet that would flow her character into the game.

This perhaps was not one of my better nights as GM which was conveyed by one of my players via frustration. I shall explain.

Since I was controlling one the players until they arrived, this player made certain decisions which gave me a basis of the character background and likihood to various scenarios.

However one player felt was leading the team by the players decisions, this conculsion came after the final fight that led him to be unconcious. One of these decsion was a point of conjecture.

Spoiler be aware - The player was a cleric and found a library full of heretical books that he concious would dicate to destroy. So far he has been uncompromising on his religious views, so what I did was to set light to the books, after announcing to the party.

The party did not stop him, and he point out that selling them on the black market was not an option he would consider (again this would of been in character). So with the room being set abalze the party rushed forward with what they thought limited time.

They were ambushed, which even if they were careful would of still been an ambush, it was of a magical nature. Unfortunately due to bad rolls two of the team members where knocked out, however the new elf ranger to the party picked up a sword and with some lucky swings saved the day.

One of the guy who got hurt badly was very angry at this point. Feeling I as GM lead to the trap as a player. Being a GM I could see that the same conclusion would of happened regardless of my previous decision.

I could see his point of view and it is something I would need to be careful in doing this future however from this point, I would steer away handling any away characters. Even though legitmately there was no devious plans on my behalf to lead them in what felt like an ill prepared way.

They were attacked by 4 lvl 2 creatures which it no where near what they have dispatche. So I was bemused at the amount of damage these creature were doing and how the party was struggling.

They managed to finish off the rest of the scenario after this and get a successful conclusion.

So from now on I will stop holding by the hand and giving advice, but I still feel they are very green and might probably die, they also have not come to the concept that sometimes running away is an option. So it will be hard as GM to bite my lips considering some of the players still not understanding the basic skill structure or eveny modifiers.

We will see in the next adventure.

So did I commit a GM cardinal sin here in playing a character should the character have been dumb and used as a mindless bot that followed the party. Whats your views.

NEPHiLiX
March 5th, 2012, 07:03
Personally I would never play another person's character but, that said, it sounds to me that your player was just frustrated because he was KO'd before he got a chance to do anything, which is understandable.

If I were you, I'd speak with the owner of the character you were playing, tell him how you played his character, and ask if it was reasonable of you to interpret his character the way you did given his character's track record and the circumstances. If he says "Yes" or "I might not have done that but I think that it was reasonable that you would play him that way", then no worries, you're off the hook and your disgruntled player has no leg to stand on.

If he says "No", then tell them that, given the difficulties, if they miss a session their character gets written out until they actually attend. Either way, there's nothing wrong with what you did--sometimes bad rolls just piss people off.

As an aside, I find that the GM-Player relationship counts big in these kinds of misunderstandings. If you're a GM who has an antagonistic relationship with your players (you feel like you're playing against them, you cheer when their PCs get wounded, you get angry when your "critters" are defeated, etc) then you should expect this kind of accusation. If you tend toward the Impartial GM (you generally empathize with your players, are happy when they succeed and cringe when they fail or take a high crit, etc), then I'd be ticked (as the GM) about the accusation if that player is remaining bitter.

Ardem
March 5th, 2012, 08:43
Personally I would never play another person's character but, that said, it sounds to me that your player was just frustrated because he was KO'd before he got a chance to do anything, which is understandable..

I would not of player it, if I could avoided it see a previous post, however the two other players are still rm and fg green and I thought it would be too much a burden for the knowledge character to play three (includes himself).

He was not KOed until the 9 round he rolled poorly for most including a fumble, but I also did utilise the cleric as well as I should have bad choice on my behalf not intended deliberate, but as a Gm you got many task to perform and optimising the cleric was not high on the list.



If I were you, I'd speak with the owner of the character you were playing, tell him how you played his character, and ask if it was reasonable of you to interpret his character the way you did given his character's track record and the circumstances. If he says "Yes" or "I might not have done that but I think that it was reasonable that you would play him that way", then no worries, you're off the hook and your disgruntled player has no leg to stand on. ..

When the owner came which was just after the fight he said that exactly what he would of done. But I don't see it as a on the hook or off the hook issue, also being a GM it was a non event in my mind but for the player it was an obvious event.




If he says "No", then tell them that, given the difficulties, if they miss a session their character gets written out until they actually attend. Either way, there's nothing wrong with what you did--sometimes bad rolls just piss people off.

As an aside, I find that the GM-Player relationship counts big in these kinds of misunderstandings. If you're a GM who has an antagonistic relationship with your players (you feel like you're playing against them, you cheer when their PCs get wounded, you get angry when your "critters" are defeated, etc) then you should expect this kind of accusation. If you tend toward the Impartial GM (you generally empathize with your players, are happy when they succeed and cringe when they fail or take a high crit, etc), then I'd be ticked (as the GM) about the accusation if that player is remaining bitter.

Actually the opposite relationship, I almost keep the impartial akin to Spock and bend the rule occasionally in their favour. I don't think the player was angry at me per say but the situation. Having said this I thought it would be good to share, especially for newer GM's that sometimes sessions are not rosy.

But good comments above

lachancery
March 5th, 2012, 15:35
The new player had to sit around and get the feel of the team, as her character was put in an ideal start point, which they had not reached yet that would flow her character into the game.

This perhaps was not one of my better nights as GM which was conveyed by one of my players via frustration. I shall explain.

Funny, I had a similar situation in my game last week in that it was both not one of my best GMing night and I had scheduled the entrance of a new player for a specific moment, which took longer than I expected to happen.

In hindsight, I should have reacted more quickly and inserted the player in faster - the game/story would not have suffered. That's one of the great challenge of being a GM: to always be on the lookout for the entertainment of everyone in the group.


So from now on I will stop holding by the hand and giving advice, but I still feel they are very green and might probably die, they also have not come to the concept that sometimes running away is an option.

I have encountered a similar situation in a game I played in a couple of months ago... There seems to be a "new expectation"; I'm not exactly sure I get it - I'm an old school guy. I'd translate it as the sense that players feel the world should scale to their ability to win through all oppositions, no matter what the odds may look like. Perhaps this comes from the last 2 decades of computer RPGs, or perhaps it's related to some other trends I don't get, like D&D 4ed. :p

In that game I played, the other players got upset at the GM for having an encounter that was beyond the party's ability to defeat. The party had plenty of warnings of the danger ahead, and had some options during the fight to run out. There was an opening in one round where I could sacrifice my character to save the party - a worthy, epic death after all! No, the party stubbornly remained to fight. To top it off, they expressed loudly their frustrations at the GM's ability to run a game. I was stunned with my fellow players...

When I GM, my worlds have a coherence in their power structure, regardless of the strength of the party. When the mood is an epic game, the players regularly face situations larger than them. I expect the players to fear death and know when to run, to live to fight another day. Since that game, I've been more conscious of that "new expectation", and thinking of ways to instill that sense of danger without killing off players. :p

Ardem
March 25th, 2012, 15:58
Start of a new adventure and the world of technical problems.

This week saw two new people fill out the party. It started off very much like any other time the players need to get used to two new players and vice versa.

I threw in some general stuff to begin with making camp, building a fire, foraging for food.

Then they sent the knight ahead to scout on a horse, each time they have sent a person alone, most times something bad happens, and it did I rolled a random encounter. A boar scream out of the woods startled the horse and the poor rider fell from the horse. Luckily without injury, while on his back the boar gored his arm. He stood up thinking he could fight a wild boar at level one. He soon learn not so easy and scaled the nearest tree, he rolled a 206 for climbing the tree, and amazing feat to do things when your scared.

Although the party was not there they heard what attacked him, and were chuckling. Except when it came time he told the character it was a huge bear, and the elf trracking roll of 08 meant they had to take his word for it.

This is a time where real people have to sit back to what there characters think.

They eventually reach a small settlement where the bard tried to chat up the ugliess woman on earth only to be knocked back.

The technical difficulties, it started with sharing a map which took ages (I know should of preloaded) and then some people got it some did not. THen the cmbt window would not come up. Finally a second restart from the host things start to go right but jeez it was a real struggle, including laggin dice and text. I wish there was some network diags, to test why things such as dice rolls (which is really humber transferance takes a long time)

We got halfway thru a battle when we had to call it a night at 12am. 7 monsters and 5 characters was an slow run but we got 6 rounds done.

For those that want to know yes the thief got zapped again by my rolls I did a 134 roll which mean 170 odd for a D critical, lucky no add on effects. I laugh when it happen but I really feel for him, there not been one fight where he has taken less then a C critical.

But he does stand closest to the enemies making himself a target, this time it was on a roof top, but he was against goblin archers, he should hide a little in the rear sometime.

Ardem
April 16th, 2012, 07:57
Technical difficulties aside, it was a very good game. The players finally started to be more tactical.

This week saw the players finish off combat for last week, we used the new Extend and FRP mods, which is always a scary thing with at lot of tests. However the extra options were too good to knock back.

The players had managed to start picking up the rules a little more, which now started them questioning whether I was doing something right (which I like, keeps me on my toes)

However one player wondered why he was getting hit easier then the goblins in a archery fight,as the goblins where behind a wall and he was on a roof. I explained he was on the edge of the roof full exposed and the goblin were only 75% exposed based on his height advantaged, he stepped back two steps and got a 60 Db bonus. Never hurts to ask questions although I think he was on the verge of accusing me of not tell ing him. But its not my role to tell him how to fight better <evil grin>

We made a change to Fate points, if someone wish to use a fate point the hit point stand but the critical does not happen. This seemed like better system for all, since they are so expensive.

They finally found a fight later on where they were surprising the enemy, they used terrain and their tactics were sound, was not a charge in however it could of swung two ways, but a Bard with Controlling songs, made a combatant stand there and not attack I could not get an RR until I rolled a natural 100 to break it <smile>

(PS Natural 100 does not give you a high opened programming issue here maybe)

And 12.00pm came along and the fight and looting finished, so it could not be timed better for an end.

Funny quotes and things.

'Belitor (the bard) your a weird arse' because he pulled out another strange weapon a blow pipe to fire at the enemies, he has a trident and a net as well.

'The female elf got stuck in the tree and took 4 turns to get out of it only to fall from the last rung'

JohnD
April 16th, 2012, 17:28
For those that want to know yes the thief got zapped again by my rolls I did a 134 roll which mean 170 odd for a D critical, lucky no add on effects. I laugh when it happen but I really feel for him, there not been one fight where he has taken less then a C critical.
Back "in the day" I had a player like that.

Anything bad that could happen would always happen to him; I think every time we gamed he'd take at least one D+ critical.

It got so bad that he actually went and spent a stupid amount of money on a suit of armor that negated 50% of all critical hits (no way would I have ever allowed any character outside of this one to get something like that...).

It all went for naught when the player decided he'd try to cross a rotten drawbridge over a moat wearing AT 16 and weighing over 300 lbs. Needless to say his MM got him to the middle (weakest part) where he proceeded to fall through, missing a roll to catch himself - fell 20' into the murky moatt, sank quickly to the bottom and drowned before his companions could shed their armor, dive in and find him in next to zero visibility.

I still get a chuckle out of thinking about it now. :)

Dakadin
April 16th, 2012, 17:32
My original versions of the RR extensions didn't make the rolls open ended. I think I fixed that around late January to early February. It has been working fine for me since then. Can you check to make sure you have the latest code in your extension?

Last night, one of my casters rolled an unmodified 97 on a base spell attack which resulted in a -75 RR. He started bragging about it until I rolled a natural 100 followed by a 73 for the RR. I had to laugh but I felt bad for him though. :(