BoL Feedback

[VenomousFiligree]

Please post any feedback for the BoL ruleset here. As it's getting late I'll post mine form this session (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15665), tomorrow! :)

[Blackfoot]

The game ran well overall. The system is pretty simple and straight forward with plenty of room for creativity. The group as a whole picked it up in a very short time. Some of the more complicated pieces took more time but those were really not very complex to deal with.

Obviously a few additions would be nice... but nothing that was glaring.
Drag and drop for Boons and Flaws will be a nice add-on when you get 'round to it. They felt a little bit like a brick wall after how easy the first part of the Character Generation so whatever you can do to streamline it there would be great.
I left a few other comments in the Notes of the game.

I had a great time and it was a great group of players.
Thumbs up.

[Dayson]

I also really enjoyed the game. Both the GM and my fellow players were outstanding. After my experience today, I would play in any game this group agreed to let me join.

[VenomousFiligree]

I'll use this post for issues that I think are ruleset based.

I couldn't seem to get the mask mode to work, if I right clicked and selected layers the mask selection wasn't there. If I clicked on the top left toolbar it would apply a mask, but I could see no way to edit it.
Initially one player reported that his chat window kept resizing (he'd made it smaller and it kept getting bigger). At some point later in the game, it appeared to reverse, as everyone else reported that their window kept resizing smaller.
One player didn't have a dice colour on his Portrait, it didn't show until he opened the colour mamange.

[VenomousFiligree]

Extension issues:

It would be good to have a 'MAX' number for things like Lifeblood and Arcane Power (Blackfoot) - I thought about this too, but then as Lifeblood is always 10 + Strength wondered if it was necessary? Same for Arcane Power, 10 + Mind. They can be modified by boons, but don't think anything else modifiers them. Easy to put in, but is it necessary, thoughts please?
It would be nice to be able to have an 'initiative' button that auto rolled 1d6+AGIL and transported that result to the combat tracker (Blackfoot) - I'll put it on the list!
Last line of the combat tracker is not displaying in the right place. It should be shifted up a bit (Blackfoot) - Will look into it.
Villain Points not working on Combat Tracker (MurghBpurn)
referencetextwide, not sizing the frame image correctly (MurghBpurn)
Weapons table last column needs resizing (MurghBpurn)
Master list of Boons and Flaws needed (MurghBpurn)
Flaw / Boon window accepted a module index entry (MurghBpurn)
Tick box for boons/flaws to allow name to be added to the dice roll (Ramza0Tyr)

Overall I think it went well, thanks to the Players for a good game :D

We can schedule the next session in the calendar, feel free to post suggested times.

[Ram Tyr]

Extension issues:

It would be good to have a 'MAX' number for things like Lifeblood and Arcane Power (Blackfoot) - I thought about this too, but then as Lifeblood is always 10 + Strength wondered if it was necessary? Same for Arcane Power, 10 + Mind. They can be modified by boons, but don't think anything else modifiers them. Easy to put in, but is it necessary, thoughts please?
I would think this would be helpful just as a matter of bookkeeping. I think of it as having an "actual" Lifeblood / Arcane Power entry and having an expended / used entry. So, after a rest in between encounters, one could simply delete the entry in the used Lifeblood box if the total is less than the character recovers during such a rest. I am not certain Arcane Power refreshes in the same way, but if it does, the same would apply.

Related suggestion -

Short Rest Application (Ramza0tyr) - Have a button besides the "used Lifeblood" box (the "wounds" box) that can be depressed to modify the "used Lifeblood' box by the proper amount of Lifeblood recovered during such a rest. The button should (1) announce in the chat box that "Character" has rested and recovered Lifeblood, and (2) subtract the amount of Lifeblood recovered during a rest from the amount listed in the "wounds" box and display the new result (minimum entry being zero).




Master list of Boons and Flaws needed (MurghBpurn)
I would suggest considering altering the display of the Boons and Flaws so that you have in one window a chart with the following three headings: (1) Region, (2) Boons, (3) Flaws. Each Region should be listed under the first heading. For each region, the entry under the second and third heading should just be the name of the boons / flaws that are available to a character from that region. Each such boon / flaw should be linked to a description of the boon / flaw. This would allow the ruleset to display the boons / flaws by region without requiring opening a new window for each region. It also allows a player familiar with the boons / flaws (and therefore may not have to open each of the description windows) to have the list in as informative an "at a glance" display as is possible. If the boons and flaws are draggable to character sheets from this chart, even better.



Tick box for boons/flaws to allow name to be added to the dice roll (Ramza0Tyr)

On this one, having a tick box for each boon / flaw would allow the ruleset to both display the name of the boon / flaw which altered the dice rolled (as you mention) and alter the dice rolled rather than requiring the player to select from among different dice roll buttons. The tick box should clear itself once the roll is made so that the player is working with a "fresh" canvas before each roll.

Additional suggestions to the Short Rest Application suggestion above-

Draggable weapon / armor to the character sheet (Ramza0tyr) - While these entries are not difficult, once they are draggable it is a nice convenience. It might also help clarify what the boxes are next to the armor. (Or at least autopopulate the information for us.) I was confused by the boxes until we talked about the Defense box being meant to display the cap that the worn armor puts on the character's defense score and the agility box is meant to display the penalty to agility the worn armor carries. (My confusion would obviously disappear with familiarity with the system, but there are worse things than catering your character sheet to the new player.)

GM's Toggle between flat rate armor damage reduction and variable armor damage reduction (Ramza0tyr) - Don't forget this as it will likely be something that GMs have to explain to each new player they introduce to the system.

Targeting and Autocalculations (Ramza0tyr)- We discussed this a bit during the game, but I figured I should list it for completeness. This includes things like considering the defense of the target when determining success of the attack roll and the armor damage reduction of the target when applying damage. I am sure there are analogous situations with the arcane magic system.

I had a great time. Well done with the session, MurghBpurn. You kept us rowdy players in line, well me at least. (And, remember, if you want to take out your anger at my silly suggestions on my character, you'll have to scheduled a follow up session!) Thanks! And, thanks to all the players without whom I could not have been so heroic! :p

I know you are still all impressed that Quey managed to jump off the raised deck onto the deck below and hit his target and do ZERO damage! That was impressive! Especially after the nimble Raven went climbing through the ship's rigging to sail through the stormy sky and surround the pirates! Now if only someone could actually hear Zobrados saying something...

[Spyke]

Yes, it was a fun session; many thanks Phil and all.

Really, I think the only thing that I would definitely like to see improved on the character sheet was the Boon/Flaw buttons. As noted elsewhere, it would be good if there was a way to include the specific Boon(s) and/or Flaw(s) being used for clarity in the output.

I think the weapon box should probably expand to allow three slots by default: sword (or axe), bow and dagger seems to be a pretty much standard Lemurian loadout.

Spyke

[VenomousFiligree]

Lifeblood and Resting
OK, I'll add a second Lifebood and Arcane Power box, so we have Max and Current, however when you rest you gained half your lifeblood lost in the last combat only, so this would require three boxes for lifeblood?

Boons and Flaws
When you say listing by region, you are talking about the rules entry and not the Character Sheet? My current thoughts are to have the links (with name) of the Boons/Flaws in each individual Region entry of the rules and also a Master List.
I'll definitely try and get the Boon/Flaw name in the text output to chat.

Draggable Weapons and Armour
Whilst I would like this, I'll not work on it for version 1.0.

Toggle for Armour Rules
I'll be working on trying to get this to work.

Targeting and Auto Calculations
Whilst this would be good, not sure if I'm up to it.

Weapon Box Size
Assuming 3 boons is typically the max, there's more than enough room to make the weapons frame bigger.

Glad you all seemed to enjoy it, I look forward to the next session.

[joshuha]

I'll use this post for issues that I think are ruleset based.

I couldn't seem to get the mask mode to work, if I right clicked and selected layers the mask selection wasn't there. If I clicked on the top left toolbar it would apply a mask, but I could see no way to edit it.
Initially one player reported that his chat window kept resizing (he'd made it smaller and it kept getting bigger). At some point later in the game, it appeared to reverse, as everyone else reported that their window kept resizing smaller.
One player didn't have a dice colour on his Portrait, it didn't show until he opened the colour mamange.



Have to make sure you are on the background layer. This is a limitation of the Image Enhancement extension and the FG engine can hopefully be fixed in a future release of FG.
This has been reported before for synching code for the resizable chat window but I can't duplicate it yet. Again once FG supports a <noclose> type of tag for windows I can solve this issue.
Never seen this before I didn't touch any of the code revolving around the portrait so not sure what happened there.

[Ram Tyr]

Lifeblood and Resting
OK, I'll add a second Lifebood and Arcane Power box, so we have Max and Current, however when you rest you gained half your lifeblood lost in the last combat only, so this would require three boxes for lifeblood?
OH. I misunderstood the rule. I thought resting restored up to half your max lifeblood. So, my above description does not coincide with the rules. :p Sounds like the additional boxes to differentiate current from max is the way to go.


Boons and Flaws
When you say listing by region, you are talking about the rules entry and not the Character Sheet? My current thoughts are to have the links (with name) of the Boons/Flaws in each individual Region entry of the rules and also a Master List.
I'll definitely try and get the Boon/Flaw name in the text output to chat.
Right, not the character sheet, but in the library. The char sheet layout is fine. The only difficulty was going through the boons and flaws collected on each of the region specific pages. This had nothing to do with the char sheet or the output in the chat log, just related to your thought on the 'master list'.


Targeting and Auto Calculations
Whilst this would be good, not sure if I'm up to it.
You can do it!

[VenomousFiligree]

Thanks Joshuha

Ramza0Tyr, boons and flaws will be linked from backgrounds and masterlist. I will attempt the targeting :)

Easy bits of the sheet have been done.

[Blackfoot]

Extension issues:

It would be good to have a 'MAX' number for things like Lifeblood and Arcane Power (Blackfoot) - I thought about this too, but then as Lifeblood is always 10 + Strength wondered if it was necessary? Same for Arcane Power, 10 + Mind. They can be modified by boons, but don't think anything else modifiers them. Easy to put in, but is it necessary, thoughts please?

I'd say 'yes' it would be nice. Yes.. it can be recalculated fairly easily... but if the player didn't generate the character or there were more complicated pieces in it (like boons) it would be nice to have. Also it would work well with Ramza's suggestion about a 'Short Rest' button. Without a 'MAX' it would have no way to know how much to heal.

[Blackfoot]

Lifeblood and Resting
OK, I'll add a second Lifebood and Arcane Power box, so we have Max and Current, however when you rest you gained half your lifeblood lost in the last combat only, so this would require three boxes for lifeblood?
Why 3? Seems like you only need current and MAX... and maybe a button for 'rest'.


Boons and Flaws
When you say listing by region, you are talking about the rules entry and not the Character Sheet? My current thoughts are to have the links (with name) of the Boons/Flaws in each individual Region entry of the rules and also a Master List.
I'll definitely try and get the Boon/Flaw name in the text output to chat.
I'm not sure how this works exactly.. are your boons restricted by region? It appeared that way in the presentation... but I wasn't sure based on the discussion that followed. The 'story' that went along with the regions was great.. but it made for a lot of quick catchup during character generation. If it was not really imperative to generation.. then having a master list is likely a good thing... with draggable Boons & Flaws. :)


Targeting and Auto Calculations
Whilst this would be good, not sure if I'm up to it.
I thought I read somewhere that this was a built in for the ruleset.. I could be wrong.

[VenomousFiligree]

I said 3, because when you rest you get half your Lifeblood back from the last combat, so you would need to have a box for max, a box for current and a box for wounds taken during current combat.

If playing in the Lemurian setting, you can only choose boons and flaws from the background you take, as we were sort of playing in a Hyborian setting, I said you could choose appropriate boons and flaws.

It is built in, but I've still got to extend it to what I've done. I've not looked at how easy that might be...

[Griogre]

Never seen this before I didn't touch any of the code revolving around the portrait so not sure what happened there.

I've seen this happen when you have a new character who has never had a die/pointer color, ie there is no default die color assigned for new characters.

[VenomousFiligree]

Flaws and Boons:

[Blackfoot]

That looks much better.

[VenomousFiligree]

Second play test (Dicey Tales) came up with the following requests/observations:


It would be good if there was a Mighty Success and Legendary Success tick box by weapons to make the additional rolls and calculations when facing rabble/non-rabble. Might be a bit fiddly, but it would be good.

Bigger, or bolder, output needed for when players spend Hero Points.

[VenomousFiligree]

The following have been actioned:

Master list of Boons and Flaws needed (MurghBpurn)
Flaw / Boon window accepted a module index entry (MurghBpurn)
Tick box for boons/flaws to allow name to be added to the dice roll (Ramza0Tyr)
GM's Toggle between flat rate armor damage reduction and variable armor damage reduction (Ramza0tyr)
Bigger, or bolder, output needed for when players spend Hero Points.

[Spyke]

Sounds good. Nice work!

Spyke

[Ram Tyr]

Well done!

[VenomousFiligree]

NPCs have been getting some attention:

[VenomousFiligree]

After the third play test session it was mentioned that rather than double clicking the Attributes / Combat Abilities / Careers to add them to the modifier box, a tick box should be provided, so that they could be added to the roll (one click rather than two).

My question is, should both methods be supported? Initially, I think I would replace double click with tick box and see how it went...

[VenomousFiligree]

I should have a one click button for all action rolls for the next session. Can you have a think on how selected boons and flaws effect the availability of the roll? i.e. if you have two boons selected should it allow the roll or force you to remove one?

[Ram Tyr]

Very cool.

Forgive my lack of familiarity with the rules. Is there ever a reason to select more than one boon? So, is it ever a valid roll with two or more boons?

For example, what if two boons and one flaw apply?

If two boons is ever valid, then maybe just go with a confirmation popup. "You've selected the following...[list]...Do you want to continue?" Then just make sure the chat log discloses what was selected and what was done. (2d6, 3d6)

If two boons is never valid, I think its fine to just prevent the roll, or have the system roll it and treat it as one boon and announce that it is doing that in the chat log.

[VenomousFiligree]

It's implied that having more than one boon would not add any further bonuses. I guess that a boon and a flaw would cancel out, so two boons and a flaw would equal one boon. Maybe the player would want the boons and flaws recorded?

I'm not sure I can do a pop up, at the moment if it's "not valid", it resets the boons and flaws, informing you of the fact.

Maybe have a play tomorrow and see what we think?

[Blackfoot]

Maybe have a play tomorrow and see what we think?
Sounds like a plan.

[VenomousFiligree]

Hopefully the new dice image, indicating the selected boons / flaws worked OK (a working image only at the moment)?

I will try and get some feedback from the BoL forums to see what their thoughts are about selecting multiple boons / flaws, otherwise please let me know what yours are?

[Ram Tyr]

The working image worked fine.

I'm trying to remember the suggestions we had at the session...was one of them to make the working image draggable so that the roll could be made in the dice tower?

[VenomousFiligree]

Probably easier to make a hidden roll button. I've got a Con next weekend, so this is taking a back seat 'till after then.

[VenomousFiligree]

I've got some assistance towards a custom skin, any thoughts on style? Ideally it will work with Barbarians of Lemuria, Legends of Steel, Dicey Tales and maybe Dogs of W*A*R.

[VenomousFiligree]

Spells page is ready for a test drive. Not too much automation as I'm not sure what's the best way to go about it. We'll see what the next playtest highlights.

[daddystabz]

How can I get in on this testing? I'm an experienced BoL GM and player. I run an online BoL Conan campaign over Infrno currently. I ran the Crimson Shoals adventure you tested for my players in my campaign previously. I think I can provide some valuable feedback.

[VenomousFiligree]

I run intermittent sessions on Saturdays, however it's pretty much full at the moment. I'd like to run some sessions midweek GMT evenings, could you make those?

[daddystabz]

What midweek days and what time eastern?

[VenomousFiligree]

Mondays or Tuesdays are best. 1900/2000 GMT which is 1400/1500 EST I think

[daddystabz]

When will you run your next BoL midweek test drive? My friend and I are interested in helping. I just need a date and time.

[VenomousFiligree]

See post here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16088

[VenomousFiligree]

Thoughts on targeting.

What do you believe should happen when brawling/melee/ranged is selected on a roll and;
no target is selected,
one target is selected,
more than one target is selected?

[Blackfoot]

Thoughts on targeting.
What do you believe should happen when brawling/melee/ranged is selected on a roll and;


No target is selected
Perform the rolls with no automatic effects, but allow this roll to be dragged onto the target both in the tracker and on the map to check for 'hits'.

One target is selected
Perform the rolls and check for appropriate defenses.

More than one target is selected
Perform the rolls and check against all targets.
Deselect targets that are 'missed' to automatically set up for the 'damage' roll.

[VenomousFiligree]

Hmm, you don't want much do you... :)

So ignore any fancy dragging and dropping, what reports would you want in chat!

[Blackfoot]

Hmm, you don't want much do you... :)

So ignore any fancy dragging and dropping, what reports would you want in chat!
OK... fine.. I was going for the whole deal... So tell me:
Who rolled the attack.
What the resulting roll was.
What modifiers were applied (including the defense of the defender.. MAYBE unless that should be hidden for DM only)
Who the target is.
If it HIT or MISSED.

[Litvyak]

I only got a brief look at the drag and drop weapons, but it would be nice to be able to tell the difference between a D6 and a D3 on the character sheet. I realize that FG is limiting when it comes to messing with the dice, but assuming it's not possible to make separate icons, an alternative might be a script that creates a tooltip with the die code. I apologize if this already exists and I missed it.

[Blackfoot]

I only got a brief look at the drag and drop weapons, but it would be nice to be able to tell the difference between a D6 and a D3 on the character sheet. I realize that FG is limiting when it comes to messing with the dice, but assuming it's not possible to make separate icons, an alternative might be a script that creates a tooltip with the die code. I apologize if this already exists and I missed it.
Yeah.. this definitely would be a good thing. I was confused by this as well. A 6 or 3 on the graphic would make it simple enough... assuming the new graphics can accommodate it.

[VenomousFiligree]

I think that its an FG issue rather than a ruleset/extension issue, however I'll look into it.

[Litvyak]

I think that its an FG issue rather than a ruleset/extension issue, however I'll look into it.

I was thinking something like this called on the onInit and onValueChanged functions of the diefields:



function setDieCode()
local t = getDice();
local dice3 = 0;
local dice4 = 0;
local dice6 = 0;
local dice8 = 0;
local dice10 = 0;
local dice12 = 0;
local dice20 = 0;

for i, v in ipairs(t) do
if v == "d3" then
dice3 = dice3 +1;
elseif v == "d4" then
dice4 = dice4 +1;
elseif v == "d6" then
dice6 = dice6 +1;
elseif v == "d8" then
dice8 = dice8 +1;
elseif v == "d10" then
dice10 = dice10 +1;
elseif v == "d12" then
dice12 = dice12 +1;
elseif v == "d20" then
dice20 = dice20 +1;
end
end

local t2 = {};

if dice3 &gt; 0 then
table.insert(t2, dice3 .. "d3");
end
if dice4 &gt; 0 then
table.insert(t2, dice4 .. "d4");
end
if dice6 &gt; 0 then
table.insert(t2, dice6 .. "d6");
end
if dice8 &gt; 0 then
table.insert(t2, dice8 .. "d8");
end
if dice10 &gt; 0 then
table.insert(t2, dice10 .. "d10");
end
if dice12 &gt; 0 then
table.insert(t2, dice12 .. "d12");
end
if dice20 &gt; 0 then
table.insert(t2, dice20 .. "d20");
end

setTooltipText(table.concat(t2, " + "));
end


I'm not a coder by any means, but I whipped this function up and it appears to work. Right now it just writes the dice out in the tooltip text like: 2d3 + 1d6. Feel free to modify it to fit your needs (adding modifiers to the end of the die code, for instance).

[VenomousFiligree]

Thanks, more of a coder than me by the looks of it! :)

Got it working with onInit, but not with onValueChanged. Taking a break now, as sorting out (hopefully) the other dice issue has taken a while....