FG2 Ultimate license sharing?

[Emrak]

Hey all,

Hope this is the right spot to post this. Basically I'm pondering buying the Ultimate version for our group. The license appears to say that any group members can sign in without having to purchase anything additional, but doesn't seem to reference GMs?

My question: we have a rotating GM thing going on. There will be one GM for a month, a different one of us will take up the reins for another month, and so forth. How does that work in FG2? I.E., does someone in the group assume the "role" of GM? Or would I need to share my license? Or...?

Thanks!

[Valarian]

From the EULA, the license is non-transferable. To rotate GM duties, you'd each have to have the Full license.

[Magnatude]

Would it work if you put FG2 on a computer that would be "lent" to the current GM/DM?... Then just move the computer from one location to another. lol

[Griogre]

If your group is five or less it is cheaper to buy all full licences together and get the bundle discount as well.

[Emrak]

The developer really needs to craft a more flexible policy for instances such as this. I will go with one of the free VTTs (or at least cheaper ones) where I do not have to deal with this legal silliness. An ultimate license should be shareable as long as it's only ever 1 GM at any given time.

[Kingfish]

The developer really needs to craft a more flexible policy for instances such as this. I will go with one of the free VTTs (or at least cheaper ones) where I do not have to deal with this legal silliness. An ultimate license should be shareable as long as it's only ever 1 GM at any given time.

In that case you'd have a single Ultimate license potentially eliminate the purchase of literally a dozen Full or Lite licenses. You buy and then share with 5 of your friends...not saying this could happen but, what if one of your friends began running for a couple of groups in addition to yours. Say you all play only on Friday nites...well the 'buddy' hosts games in the morning on Sat & Sun and yet ANOTHER of your good friends hosts games on Sunday nite and Wednesday morning.

Just getting warmed up here...

And still yet another buddy is hosting a game on Thursday afternoon and the 5th of your group calls it for a Monday & Tuesday session. Mind you, all these games are with completely different players the only connection is your group of 5 friends and the ONE Ultimate License.

Can you see(no matter how silly or over the top my example was) how this could/would be an issue?

I think the license system is about as good as they can make it...

[Emrak]

I'm not saying I have the answers as to how to craft a flexible licensure. I'm just saying the current one does not fit into the paradigm of playing and running RPGs.

150 dollars is not chump change. If I'm going to invest that much, all at once, I should DEFINITELY be able to let someone else GM a game if I so desire. Again, I could understand the pricing if there were not free options available, but there are, ya know? I'm just sayin...

[Emrak]

I just had a pretty good idea the developers may wish to consider. What if the Ultimate license works like this:
---1 GM "parent" license (the product owner)
---X number of players licenses

The above is the way it is now. What if we just add this variant:
---X number of GM "child" licenses. These are basically the same as the player licenses but the players can be a GM HOWEVER, they can only ever be a GM (or a player for that matter) in a game in which the GM "parent" license product owner is playing.

Make sense? That way the intent is being carried out (the product is being sold) and new GMs are being exposed to the product so that when and if the group eventually fragments for whatever reason, the GMs will want to purchase their own copies. And so on, and so forth.

As it stands now, I don't want to invest 150 in a product that others in my group won't be able to GM with. When they GM, we'll have to switch to some other VTT (and the learning curve involved with that, and so forth). It's a hassle that I don't want to have to deal with.

[Valarian]

They do provide flexible licensing, you can buy a Lite license (and just play), a Full license (GM and play), or the Ultimate license (GM, play and allow unregistered players to play). From your comments you seem to expect the developers to allow the software to be copied freely - that isn't flexibility.

For your needs, a bundle deal on a number of Full licenses is your best bet.

[Kingfish]

And I am not saying that this topic doesn't deserve a conversation...and it has one currently running HERE (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14751). I am however saying that within the current model the Ultimate License serves the exact purpose as it was intended.

It sounds like what you(and many others have asked for) is a "Club License". Where you and a set # of friends(decided on at time of purchase) all get a Full License so anyone of you can run a game BUT, only with one another.

I could see something like this getting a drastic discount if they could work it out so Club Licenses could ONLY connect to each other...thats the only way something like this could work, IMHO.

[Emrak]

There are two issues here (which I'm sure the devs are constantly grappling with too). The first is pricing: is the price low enough, given all the other products on the market, to entice as many people as possible to buy; yet high enough that profit is maximized. The second is the actual licensure: what someone can do with whatever they've purchased.

Regarding the first...IMHO, the product is priced too high for how their current licenses work. I think the company could definitely increase sales with a price reduction. This would probably solve my aforementioned issue.

We're discussing the second issue though (but it's kind of tied to the first). In most groups, there are players who---besides buying a core book or two---will never buy RPG items. These people aren't necessarily cheap, it's just not worth it to them to buy what they consider to be accessories especially when there are free products on the market that are almost as good as the pricey product. Many of these people are GMs. In this circumstance, any given group will tend to appeal to the lowest common techno-denominator, aka, what does everyone have access to?

I don't care how, why, or what, but I (and I certainly can't be alone here) would like a license that would let others in my group GM and that when/if the group dissolves and I migrate to another group, I don't have to rebuy everyone full copies of the software. Having said that---to go back to my pricing comment above---if the price were lower, honestly, I wouldn't care. I'd buy everyone full copies (especially if I got some kind of return customer discount).

Lotta food for thought, but I do wish the devs the best of luck with this.

[Kingfish]

Pricing and the ability to do what you want with what you purchased.

First off, pricing...I had a problem with that too when I first bought it. $40 for a VTT? I thought 'really, really?"

In your case you are wanting to have a group of friends all be able to pass the GM tab so each of you will need a Full License(the Ultimate won't do what you need). If there are six of you like my group, thats less than $28 dollars a piece and any and ALL of you can run a game whenever you want. $27.97 is too expensive?

As for the second part, you are purchasing a license or basically 'borrowing' the software for the said price as long as you agree to follow the EULA. I've heard the argument so many times from others, "well I paid for it..." no ya didn't. You paid for a license, like a drivers license...you have to obey the rules they say you have to or you loose the privilege of their license.

Just cause you have a drivers license doesn't mean you can loan it to your sister so she can drive.

I know that's all semantics and I am being unnecessarily argumentative but I think the system is good as is and I am done now...we will agree to disagree here on out I guess. Good day to you.

Oh and one last thing, you think the market is flooded with 'good-enough' VTTs? Wow...that one makes me laugh...sorry.

[Moon Wizard]

Thanks to all of you for your views of licensing.

The licensing has come a long ways from the original FG2 release, and there may be more iterations in the future. We are constantly talking about ways to refine licensing, while improving security, profitability and affordability. The Ultimate license option and the bundling discount are all part of the changes that have been made.

In the past, we have suggested potential licensing changes, and had quite a large negative sentiment in the community. So, we end up in a position where we would have to support the current licensing model, as well as any changes we would make.

For now, we have no plans to change the licensing model. Instead, we have decided to focus our efforts in improving the product, so that it stands out in the virtual tabletop market. If the business changes or we get the time to build a better model, it is definitely something we will look at.

Cheers,
JPG

[damned]

i hear the argument about dropping prices to increase sales for just about every online product and service. its pretty well true that if you lower your prices you will sell more. what also often happens is that you make less money too. if you halved the price of the licenses you have to sell MORE than twice the number of licenses because although it costs almost nothing to allow a digital download to take place there is still the cost of support, transaction costs, accounting costs etc. so even if you manage to double your sales you are still at best making the same money for more work.

there are lots of different ways to price your products. if you are running a business the only long term viable ones are the ones that make you a profit.

im guessing the number of players who are willing to pay for a vtt are limited. my pricing model would either be give it away for free or sell it for enough to make some money out of it.

[drahkar]

Regarding the first...IMHO, the product is priced too high for how their current licenses work. I think the company could definitely increase sales with a price reduction. This would probably solve my aforementioned issue.
Actually its quite comparable to other applications out there when you consider the level of development involved. You aren't buying a subscription. You are getting the full server/client software and really don't have to rely on Smiteworks again after the purchase. You even get the application updates for free.


We're discussing the second issue though (but it's kind of tied to the first). In most groups, there are players who---besides buying a core book or two---will never buy RPG items. These people aren't necessarily cheap, it's just not worth it to them to buy what they consider to be accessories especially when there are free products on the market that are almost as good as the pricey product. Many of these people are GMs. In this circumstance, any given group will tend to appeal to the lowest common techno-denominator, aka, what does everyone have access to?
No offense, but I have never met a GM that wasn't willing to invest some money, in some form, for RPG products and accessories. Its key to running a successful game session. You don't have to have all the itty bitty parts, but you still have to invest some.

The simple fact of it is that the free products while functional, are not as nice as this product. You can use them and they do what they intend, but 90% of them cater only to 4E or 3.5E. And the ones that are capable of being used for other systems give you a generic interface for them at best. This applications can be custom tailored -completely- to ANY system. That alone is a huge bonus. Add in the fact that as a provider, they are also actively working to get Publishers to sign on, given you access to content, in finished form within the application just by purchasing the module? That is HUGE! Any experienced GM can tell you the hours that can be spent entering that data into a interface for playing online.

Its something to keep in mind that as far as platforms go, you will be hard pressed to find a single one that offers the level of customability per system that FG does, nor the continued focus towards that end.


I don't care how, why, or what, but I (and I certainly can't be alone here) would like a license that would let others in my group GM and that when/if the group dissolves and I migrate to another group, I don't have to rebuy everyone full copies of the software. Having said that---to go back to my pricing comment above---if the price were lower, honestly, I wouldn't care. I'd buy everyone full copies (especially if I got some kind of return customer discount).
There already IS a license that specifically answers that comment. Its the Ultimate license. With that license, none of your players need to even buy the software. That was part of the reason I ended up purchasing it. People I play with were hesitant to purchase the software. This was a simple solution. With the Ultimate license the players need not invest a single penny and you get the games going. Do they have to get something if they want to GM? Yes, licenses are not transferable. And frankly, I don't see a problem with this. It is perfectly reasonable for a company to expect people using their software to have to buy their own copies in order to use it.

When you consider the amount of cost the Ultimate license offsets, the price is completely reasonable. You can have as many unregistered players connect to your game as your bandwidth will allow. If you are running a game with 15 players (Not that it would happen often, but it does happen) with a Ultimate License, none of those players have to purchase anything. Not a thing. That is a HUGE amount of cost saved for the players, but it has a major impact to the bottom line for Smiteworks too. That is 15 people who won't be purchasing the software unless they want to be the GM.

I'm not saying that this isn't an investment of sorts. But the average RPG Gamer, of all the ones I have ever known, can spend thousands of dollars of RPG materials inside a year. Without blinking an eye. Spending some more to open the entire Internet to your gaming sessions isn't going to bankrupt you. Especially when you don't have to buy the upgrades.

[Magnatude]

Personally I love the software and the only thing keeping me from buying and Ultimate license (upgrade from my full) is the matter of updating the current rulesets that I've purchased from Smiteworks. Yes, a few are unpopular, but I still bought them, and use them and expect them to work as I paid for them.

I'm happy a few members have indicated that they will add ext fixes... but I'll know when I finally see it.

Yeah, its a good investment, even if your current players do not get involved, you will still get a lot of players (if you are open to getting new people who already own FG2). I met a lot of players here, and they are dedicated (not like the free client softwares) as they too have invested their $ and really want to keep using this software.

The great thing is that FG2 wont cost you any more as its upgrading is included... as a person involved with 3D rendering software and many 2D art programs, it gets expensive attempting to keep your software current.

[Valarian]

The rulesets work with the Ultimate license, as well as the Full license. You don't need to repurchase them. Unless you mean they're old rulesets (ie. FG1).

[Moon Wizard]

I think Magnatude is speaking to some of the older rulesets in the store, which have not been updated in some time. (i.e. Iron Heroes) I promised him that I would look at putting an extension to patch a couple items when I come up for air on v2.8.

Cheers,
JPG

[Magnatude]

yeah Iron heroes and the like... I thank the guys working on them to get them at least in a reasonable state :) And it prompts me towards getting an Ultimate license.