Using Cards During Gameplay

[Netjera]

Didn't I read something about card support? Or am I misremembering? Thanks!

[drahkar]

There are cards used in the Savage Worlds Ruleset, but I don't believe a Community release for cards has been made though there has been an attempt that was shelved by the developer due to his limited time.

So its possible, but currently only completed in Savage Worlds.

[Leonal]

In the meantime I can recommend Virtual Deck https://www.rlsoftwares.com/baralhovirtual/

[phantomwhale]

Savage Worlds does indeed have card dealing support, due for a cosmetic update in the next version too.

Is you query related to SW card use ? Or another ruleset ?

Not sure (as a third-party developer) what the legality in extracting card deck parts of one ruleset into a community ruleset might be. But forsee pulling out some of the SW card dealing into an extension for a different ruleset might not be impossible.

[drahkar]

Witht he Savage Worlds Ruleset being a commercial one I would say stripping the card code from it would call into a copyright violation. Which is why work was started on the community one in the first place. The thread discussing it all is here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11241&highlight=Card+deck


tdewitt274 was working on a community deck, but he had to stop due to time limitations. Joshua had offered to be available to help in developing a community one (He developed the Savage worlds one originally) but that was several years ago. If someone was interested in working on a community project they could certainly try PMing both of them to see what information they could get.

[RKBrumbelow]

For numerous legal reasons, anyone who has ever worked on the commercial code would be wise to absent themselves from a community project doing the same thing. IP law gets very screwy and in a litigious happy environment, without express permission from the original code owners, it becomes ripe for a lawsuit.

I would advise anyone even thinking of working on a community project to not even look at the code in the SW ruleset lest you even accidentally reproduce code or logic.

[Griogre]

This is good general advise, but it should be mentioned that Smiteworks owns the code to the SW ruleset and depending on what you are actually doing might be willing to make a deal or even encourage development.

[phantomwhale]

The last two posts sum up exactly where I stand. I've read Joshua's card dealing code, and rewritten much of it for the latest incarnation of the Savage Worlds ruleset.

So the concept of rewriting it for the community ruleset in such a way as NOT to be in IP violation is mind-bogglingly impossible for me. But with Smiteworks guidance, I'd be happy to port out the parts required.

E.g. I see Foen wrote a "dropdown" component for BRP, which he shared seperate to the ruleset. Similiarly I could share a "card hand" component, seperate to SW, even though that is the code I've used for the Savage Worlds specific card behavior.

Should note that in the other thread, there was talk of quite a generic card library, not tied to simple 54 card decks and highly configurable - this was much more than I was intending to do, hence I offered advice but not involvement on that chunk of work.

[Netjera]

Hey everyone, thanks for responding! Wow, I didn't mean to start a legal discussion, lol. I just remembered reading somewhere that FG had card support, but I couldn't remember if it was tied to just a ruleset, or part of the core functionality. (Or for that matter, if I was even remembering correctly, as I'd looked as a bunch of different products before choosing FG.)

I am interested in using cards with the 3.5E ruleset, but I doubt I'd have anywhere near the programming skill to implement such a thing. I know a bit of Perl and C++, but I'm by-no-means an expert, or even comfortable with programming. >.<

I might just use standard images. Is there any way to flip over an image so you can see the back of it? Also, can I send an image to just a certain player? Or do I have to share with all of them?

Thanks again!

[viresanimi]

Oh dear lord.

If cards get coded into the system, I will throw out every other campaign I am working on, and will get some Castle Falkenstein action going on! Most brilliant setting ever. Yes sir!

Vires Animi

[phantomwhale]

Yeah, sorry - legal discussion is mainly my fault, as it applies directly to my ability to contribute. Community thread for doing this work is what Drahkar linked to above.

But equally I don't see the legal issue as a stumbling block - just need to find some approach where we are "providing a card enhancement to other rulesets" rather than "giving away a chunk of the Savage Worlds ruleset for free".

Don't think it matters if the same underlying approach is used. But to be clear, each ruleset will have it's own front-end controls and frame windows etc... so not sure a "generic" card tool can be written.

Where is the community ruleset hosted ? Can always have a look...

[Netjera]

I'm not actually looking for the ability to play card games, although I could see how that would be useful in any ruleset, for role-playing purposes. Actually, what I'd like to do is be able to use item and condition cards - that sort of thing. Give the players cards to allow them to track special items, timed effects and modifiers, or have condition cards shown on their portraits or something.

I'd use the built-in image function, if I could find a way to make images "flippable" it would work sufficient for my purpose, because we can draw on the images. Or at least, I can. Can players also draw on images, or be given permission to draw on them?

[RKBrumbelow]

It sounds like a better system would be to allow the selection and use of arbitrary tokens.

Tokens could then have any number of properties and be treated as objects in system code. Such properties might be:

* individual ID
* image attached
* alpha Channel (or second/ flipped image)
* duration (single use, multi use, daily use, encounter use, permanent etc)
* effect (not necessarily tied to duration) example a one time use token could grant a permanent effect.
* garbage collection (what happens at end of play, on token use etc. : is the token permanently removed from a pile, is it returned to a pile, is it eliminated form the distribution pile when assigned to a player and so on)

Stacks of tokens could be customizable by the GM.

Such a token system would be useful when dealing with numerous systems. (Notice I have refrained from using any game system specific terms)

[phantomwhale]

I've written the SW card interface as "bitmap widgets" for cards being rendered on a generic frame.

This offers no drawing capacity at all.

The previous approach used was to add then as tokens onto an image frame. This allows drawing on the image frame (but not the tokens).

I am hoping to extend the approach to program in "adventure" cards into the Savage Worlds ruleset too, which may generify the underlying card functionality. But overall, it still sounds like the suggestions are for something even more generic, which is possibly a bigger ask.

As an aside, I believe FGII rulesets tend to be quite "built for purpose" rather then "generic tools with wide ranges of quite abstract usage". This is both the strength and occasional limitation of what you can do with it. E.g. it's much harder as a developer to offer a generic resusable ruleset agnostic extension, but it's very easy to write some really focused rules specific extensions with great depth and power.

[Zeus]

I agree with Phantomwhale a generic approach is pretty challenging. I looked at a generic approach when building the D&D Three Dragon Ante card mechanics. In the end the approach ended up being very specific to Dragon Ante and pretty difficult to back-port to other card mechanics/game types.

I think what's ideally needed is a base class for a card object as well as basic mechanics support such as build/shuffle deck, deal/draw card etc. etc. Ideally as part of the standard FGII API.

Beyond that community developers can then extend the base class and methods to suit specific card games/mechanics.

I do plan to revisit cards at some point, just haven't gotten around to it due to other projects.

[RKBrumbelow]

"pretty challenging"? More like nigh impossible. The effects subset alone I mentioned could not be implemented because there is no base for effects across FG2's rulesets.

- I was expecting someone to point it out, but DZ & PW are being overly polite about it.

[Zeus]

Is that really needed in the base class given that Effects are rather specific to the game type?

I would have thought the base card object would be better off being a simple class, everything else can be added in the individual rulesets that will employ the card object by extending the class/methods.

[RKBrumbelow]

if there was a simple method of inheritance by standardization of underlying classes then no there would not be, However since that doesn't exist across all rulesets (as they are free to implement them with whatever system they chose) it would be. The other option would be a system of wrappers used to convert schema from one system to the generic and back.

[Netjera]

Wow.. there's a bunch of responses I missed! Let me see if I can actually catch up and figure out what questions I need to ask. Thanks so much for all the time you guys took to answer!

[Netjera]

Okay, I'm caught up. Let me ask a different question: Is there any way to "flip" a standard image in FG2 so that a player can look at both sides of it? Or would a 2-sided image have to be entered as 2 separate images?

[drahkar]

They would have to be two different images.

[Zeus]

Okay, I'm caught up. Let me ask a different question: Is there any way to "flip" a standard image in FG2 so that a player can look at both sides of it? Or would a 2-sided image have to be entered as 2 separate images?

Yes, although you will need to code it yourself amd as Drahkar has stated use two images. You can swap the image between two states (front and back) based upon a user input e.g. left click.

For the Three Dragon Ante prototype, I used both tokens and a custom image control that flipped the token/image when a user left double clicked the card.

[Moon Wizard]

It would be entered as 2 separate images.

You could essentially setup a genericcontrol object, and use the setIcon function to change the image to whatever you like based on the user interaction. There are several places in many rulesets where this is used.

Also, the buttoncontrol has a up and down icon, if you just want a control that flips while the user holds the button down on it.

Cheers,
JPG

[Netjera]

Hmm... all I need is some way to hand the player an image, which will remain open, and which can be 2-sided, and that they can look at. I will make an image with say, a picture and a name on the front, and the stats or conditions on the back.

I'm seriously not a programmer, so I'm looking for the easiest way to do this, if it's possible. Is it possible to send an image just to one person?

[Trenloe]

Is it possible to send an image just to one person?

Yes, "drag" the image placeholder from the images list to the player portrait in the top left.

[Netjera]

Yes, "drag" the image placeholder from the images list to the player portrait in the top left.

Thanks. Okay, so I could conceivably give them item images, etc. Can they write on those images?

It's really too bad you can't "flip" an image over. That's all I'd need to make this work.

[Trenloe]

Thanks. Okay, so I could conceivably give them item images, etc. Can they write on those images?

The GM and the Player/s can draw on the image. I'm not aware of any way to write on them (i.e. type text on the image).

[Netjera]

The GM and the Player/s can draw on the image. I'm not aware of any way to write on them (i.e. type text on the image).

That's okay. I think I have an idea to work around that. This may be doable. I'll have to put some test images together and see if works. If it does, I'll release my first pack to the community so people can play with them and let me know what they think.