VenomousFiligree
April 4th, 2011, 21:19
I ran a Demo of FG using SW, Saturday just gone. (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14387) There were 7 players, so things were a bit slow!
Here's the feedback (repeated from the linked thread) from a friend who has played FG maybe a dozen times in the last 4 to 5 years, (my comments back to him are in red).
Demo very good on Sat night, enjoyed it.
I think you were after feedback, so here goes:
Main comment was "it was very slow", though I also noticed you were very busy.
For me, the problem was that FG provides all the tools we need to run a game, but provides *zero* tools to help speed it up. If anything, playing FG is slower than playing on a real tabletop, because you have to fiddle with dice etc. For real, you'd just pick up the dice and roll them, for example. Yes a typical FG session takes about 3 times longer, some parts in SW are quicker however, card dealing and redealing for initiative for example.
I would like to see some "time saving devices" built in
* When its my turn, I want some big indications its my turn, like changing colour etc.. That is to emphasise to me its my turn and I should get on with it, but also to emphasise to others that its my turn and they should shut up. Currently you have the a chat entry indicator and a 'hard to see' white halo around your token, agree it's not ideal. You can also have a "bell" at the same time as the chat entry indicator. I had this turned off initially, turned it on half way through, but don’t think it takes effect until FG is restarted.
* We know I can move 6, so when its my turn, I'd like a translucent circle to appear around me indicating my max move, just to make it easy. No measuring. This could be done automatically, or if not, we can do that at beginning of game as setup. As a work around you could turn your weapon reach to this value, so that when you mouse over you get a grey square indicating this. There is also the option of having "circular" pointers, that you could drag over your PC
* Would also like a translucent circle indicating range of weapons, e.g. 12/24/36 This could be done automatically, or if not, we can do that at beginning of game as setup. See comments for pace
* While it is my turn, I would like to see a timer appear. Timer can last for any time set by GM, modifiable as game continues. Would suggest each get 60 secs for turn, plus another 60 secs where all rolls are at -2. Then the dice stop working and it is forced the end of your turn. After 10 seconds warning, the focus changes to next player. Everyone can see stats on how long players take "last turn: 38 secs, avg turn: 48 secs" so they can help/hurry along slow people. Newbies can be granted extra time to begin with, if they need it. GM
can turn this on/off and set the timer. In a normal game, time is less of an issue as we only have 4 to 5 players and they know FG and SW. Would you be happy with this at a con? Smacks a bit too much of competitive play, this is something that should be handled by the GM imo.
* When it is NOT my turn, I want another timer which is minimum time to my next turn. So I can time any bio breaks sensibly without disrupting flow of game. That can be updated following the Action sequence updates. If I do take a break, I want to be able to hit a button to show "taking a break" state easily to others, so we don't have to do "/o taking a break" and "/o back now" and have everyone ask "/o where's Si?" all the time. See above. However an icon on the portrait similar to the chat bubble and zzzs to indicate AFK, would be good.
* Also want to be able to type up my actions ahead of time, so I can just click them straight into the window when its my turn. A "turn plan" window. So if my turn is obvious it will take about 10 secs. You can do this by opening a note in FG and using cut and paste.
* FG should be able to keep track of number of times I rolled certain skills, so we can see how much ammo used without me needing to track that. Maybe. Hard to add in I think, as different types of fire using different amounts. normal shooting: one roll - 1 round, double tap: one roll - two rounds, 3rb: one roll - 3 rounds, auto fire: rof rolls rof x 3 rounds, suppression fire: one roll - rof x 5 ammo
* Would like to see the "Common Dice" at bottom of screen replaced with automatically updating "10 most frequently used dice rolls", so I don't have to look on my character sheet for them, or do manual setup. FG should be able to do that automatically. Drag to quick slot is the best I can offer
My calculations were that we spent about 4 hours doing 8 turns. The later turns were faster, so we were doing about >5 mins per person per turn. That was way too slow, which meant people drifted away and lost focus. We need to keep the pace going without you putting explicit timers out, which makes GM look impatient. Whereas I know you worked hard and have no complaints. Agree, however this was a combat demo with 4(?) newbies.
If we did the same game using above, we would have played about 12 turns in 2 hours. Much better demo, more game time. Turn discipline and familiarity with FG will achieve nearly this.
So the main theme is "FG, help me do this quicker". Agree :)
Here's the feedback (repeated from the linked thread) from a friend who has played FG maybe a dozen times in the last 4 to 5 years, (my comments back to him are in red).
Demo very good on Sat night, enjoyed it.
I think you were after feedback, so here goes:
Main comment was "it was very slow", though I also noticed you were very busy.
For me, the problem was that FG provides all the tools we need to run a game, but provides *zero* tools to help speed it up. If anything, playing FG is slower than playing on a real tabletop, because you have to fiddle with dice etc. For real, you'd just pick up the dice and roll them, for example. Yes a typical FG session takes about 3 times longer, some parts in SW are quicker however, card dealing and redealing for initiative for example.
I would like to see some "time saving devices" built in
* When its my turn, I want some big indications its my turn, like changing colour etc.. That is to emphasise to me its my turn and I should get on with it, but also to emphasise to others that its my turn and they should shut up. Currently you have the a chat entry indicator and a 'hard to see' white halo around your token, agree it's not ideal. You can also have a "bell" at the same time as the chat entry indicator. I had this turned off initially, turned it on half way through, but don’t think it takes effect until FG is restarted.
* We know I can move 6, so when its my turn, I'd like a translucent circle to appear around me indicating my max move, just to make it easy. No measuring. This could be done automatically, or if not, we can do that at beginning of game as setup. As a work around you could turn your weapon reach to this value, so that when you mouse over you get a grey square indicating this. There is also the option of having "circular" pointers, that you could drag over your PC
* Would also like a translucent circle indicating range of weapons, e.g. 12/24/36 This could be done automatically, or if not, we can do that at beginning of game as setup. See comments for pace
* While it is my turn, I would like to see a timer appear. Timer can last for any time set by GM, modifiable as game continues. Would suggest each get 60 secs for turn, plus another 60 secs where all rolls are at -2. Then the dice stop working and it is forced the end of your turn. After 10 seconds warning, the focus changes to next player. Everyone can see stats on how long players take "last turn: 38 secs, avg turn: 48 secs" so they can help/hurry along slow people. Newbies can be granted extra time to begin with, if they need it. GM
can turn this on/off and set the timer. In a normal game, time is less of an issue as we only have 4 to 5 players and they know FG and SW. Would you be happy with this at a con? Smacks a bit too much of competitive play, this is something that should be handled by the GM imo.
* When it is NOT my turn, I want another timer which is minimum time to my next turn. So I can time any bio breaks sensibly without disrupting flow of game. That can be updated following the Action sequence updates. If I do take a break, I want to be able to hit a button to show "taking a break" state easily to others, so we don't have to do "/o taking a break" and "/o back now" and have everyone ask "/o where's Si?" all the time. See above. However an icon on the portrait similar to the chat bubble and zzzs to indicate AFK, would be good.
* Also want to be able to type up my actions ahead of time, so I can just click them straight into the window when its my turn. A "turn plan" window. So if my turn is obvious it will take about 10 secs. You can do this by opening a note in FG and using cut and paste.
* FG should be able to keep track of number of times I rolled certain skills, so we can see how much ammo used without me needing to track that. Maybe. Hard to add in I think, as different types of fire using different amounts. normal shooting: one roll - 1 round, double tap: one roll - two rounds, 3rb: one roll - 3 rounds, auto fire: rof rolls rof x 3 rounds, suppression fire: one roll - rof x 5 ammo
* Would like to see the "Common Dice" at bottom of screen replaced with automatically updating "10 most frequently used dice rolls", so I don't have to look on my character sheet for them, or do manual setup. FG should be able to do that automatically. Drag to quick slot is the best I can offer
My calculations were that we spent about 4 hours doing 8 turns. The later turns were faster, so we were doing about >5 mins per person per turn. That was way too slow, which meant people drifted away and lost focus. We need to keep the pace going without you putting explicit timers out, which makes GM look impatient. Whereas I know you worked hard and have no complaints. Agree, however this was a combat demo with 4(?) newbies.
If we did the same game using above, we would have played about 12 turns in 2 hours. Much better demo, more game time. Turn discipline and familiarity with FG will achieve nearly this.
So the main theme is "FG, help me do this quicker". Agree :)