Other D&D Options?

[Galeric]

Hi there,

I am very long time gamer and my group broke up and we've moved to separate corners of the country, now we are at a time in our lives to where we can start playing again. We have picked Fantasy grounds to be our medium, but i have some questions and concerns.

I have seen the medium is pretty dynamic and can be adjusted however, is it possible to do Basic D&D in here? i see rule sets for 3.5 and 4, but nothing for the old stuff. How about 1 and 2 ?

Now i know the answer will be yes, but just how would i go about inputting rule sets?

[Zeus]

Short answer is, yes.

Check out the Rulesets page on the FGWiki (https://oberoten.dyndns.org/fgwiki/index.php/Category:Rulesets).

I believe there are rulesets for D&D Basic and Extended and AD&D. Labyrinth Lord I believe is close cousin of the original D&D Basic game, it can be made even closer to the original by loading an extension (Beckham).

Not sure about 2nd Edition though.

[Galeric]

Ok nothing like that out there, how hard and involved is making your own rule set?

[StuartW]

I'm pretty certain there is a 2e ruleset out there, try this link on the FG Wiki (https://oberoten.dyndns.org/fgwiki/index.php/AD%26D).

(The AD&D ruleset is actually 2nd edition iirc). Dr Z is right about Labyrinth Lord, it is an OGL version of the Basic/Expert/Companion/Master rules, and the Beckham extension makes it even closer.

Stuart

[StuartW]

Ok nothing like that out there, how hard and involved is making your own rule set?

Making your own ruleset is challenging and very satisfying! You'd need to understand how xml works and be familiar with general programming languages. The script is written in Lua, which is somewhere between Javascript (in functionality) and Basic (in syntax).

There is a somewhat out-of-date tutorial, which I never finished writing, called Anatomy of a Ruleset (https://wiki.witheredlands.co.uk/anatomy.ashx).

Stuart

[Sakusammakko]

I don't want to offend your sensibilities because I know that it's not technically the same. Bear with me as I make my suggestion.

My groups have been playing D&D in an 'old-style' fashion for more than 2 years using the Castles & Crusades ruleset.

The reason I recommend it is that the second version of the ruleset has so many new features, it's a pleasure to run a game in an old-school style. If you want to spend your time building your campaign vs. building a ruleset, you may wish to consider this option.

C&C is the closest ruleset to Basic/LL, 1e/OSRIC and 2e that has been published as a commercial product. What you get is a fully-functioning ruleset with lots of implemented features, access to complete PHBs, MMs and even adventures you can run if you're short on prep time.

I've looked at the LL and OSRIC rulesets and they are labors of love. Nevertheless, it's felt like there is something missing from the implementations. I just kept getting the feeling that they weren't finished (which may or may not be true). That's understandable as the guys who worked on them did this in their free time.

I knew I wanted to run a game in an old-school style with options that felt like 1e. The C&C ruleset allows me to focus on running my campaign instead of wondering if I need to do any work-arounds with the ruleset.

I apologize in advance if this has hijacked your thread. Back to regularly scheduled programming....

[StuartW]

The reason I recommend it is that the second version of the ruleset has so many new features, it's a pleasure to run a game in an old-school style. If you want to spend your time building your campaign vs. building a ruleset, you may wish to consider this option.

I'd support this recommendation: using an existing ruleset, specially if it comes with the reference materials (like monsters, spells etc), frees the GM up to spend time building campaign material, rather than taking too much time building the ruleset itself. If you have a commercial product (like C&C) then the chances are that it will keep being updating and you get a better product over time. Provided, of course, it is close enough to your preferred game system. IMHO, C&C is close to AD&D, but it differs in significant aspects to 1e and Basic/Expert, such as having 3e-style skills rather than (for example) 1e-style thief abilities. That is just a personal opinion.


I've looked at the LL and OSRIC rulesets and they are labors of love. Nevertheless, it's felt like there is something missing from the implementations. I just kept getting the feeling that they weren't finished (which may or may not be true). That's understandable as the guys who worked on them did this in their free time.

As someone who developed a number of the commercial rulesets (such as BRP, CoC and large chunks of Rolemaster) in addition to the community rulesets (such as Traveller, LL and the Base Ruleset), I can quite honestly say that they were *all* developed in my free time. Just ask my wife. Ruleset development takes many man months and pays peanuts, so no-one can afford to do it as a paid occupation. ;)

Stuart

[Sorcerer]

I would also suggest to try out C&C, its only $10, which is a steal considering what you get with it. There are always GM's looking for Players (Sakusammakko posted for one yesterday), so it should be easy to see it in action before you commit to buying it.

I am of course biased, since I am involved in this rulesets ongoing development...

with regard to Stuarts comment about skills. I would just like to clarifiy that C&C has no explicit skill system [so no list of skills with a value next to it],at least not in the core rules, skill checks are simply made by rolling against the characters attributes. If the character is trained in a skill (so like the thieves skills) he gets to add his level to the roll, giving him a huge advantage. There are a couple of other modifiers based on if the attribute is prime or non-prime, but in essence it is a really simple system that can be applied to any situation.

The biggest difference I saw when I first looked at C&C was it has (like 3E) positive armor classes...that takes time to get used to, but in the end is a little easier to calculate.

[Galeric]

Thanks a bunch guys!

I loved all your recommendations, and don't worry you did not offend me at all, in fact i liked your input.

I have pretty much to the conclusion i will be running a rule set already done and perhaps down the road will do my own.

Now with all that said i am leaning toward the BRP set for fantasy grounds by Chaosium. Very familiar with the rules and play of the chaosium system, however when and if i purchase a rule set, do i receive a PDF or something along the lines of how systems work? I know i dont remember how exactly combat works and how spell systems would work, is there an easy way to find this info out? Would like to know before i fork over money for something that i might not like.

[Sorcerer]

The BRP ruleset by StuartW, is one of the newest and best available at the moment. It comes with a pdf detailing how the ruleset works.

The actual rules for BRP itself have been transcribed to FG format in their entirety, but must be viewed from within the library of FG2.

The adventures that were included in the rulebook appear as separate module files, which are also part of the download.

This is a very good ruleset, but somewhat different from the subject of your original question!

[StuartW]

The content of the BRP core rulebook is included in the ruleset, as simple text (no pictures and not much formatting) so you can always reference that from within the game. The ruleset includes a user guide PDF, which you can also download for free (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/filelibrary/manuals/BasicRoleplayingforFantasyGroundsII-UserGuide.pdf) anyway so you can see what it contains before you spend any money.

That said, I always find it helpful to have the original PDF or hardcover book to hand when playing a game, because it suits me better than trying to search the in-game material and because, well, I *like* to have RPG stuff on my bookshelf :D

Finally, you can also grab a free copy of the quick-start rules (https://catalog.chaosium.com/product_info.php?products_id=3700) which go over the basics from the Chaosium web site.

Cheers

Stuart

[StuartW]

Beat me to it!

[Sorcerer]

yes but , but your answer was more authoritative than mine :D

[wbcreighton]

The adventures that come with the BRP ruleset are actually the adventures that are in the BRP quickstart rules. Handy short encounters that are good for testing out the ruleset.

[Galeric]

OK i see your point about Using BRP

C&C it is. I have to keep it simple, i have been recruited to DM a fantasy setting game for a group of 5 women... Several that have never played an RPG. After spending the last couple days researching, i think C&C is going to do that very well.

[Sorcerer]

If you need them, the Quick start rules 2010 for C&C (https://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?cPath=4300&products_id=81912) can be downloaded for free from drivethrurpg and rpgnow (although you have to register first to get it).

The C&C ruleset, does contain the full players handbook, but sometimes (as Stuart mentioned above) it is nice to look at the pdf and FG at the same time.

Currently the C&C ruleset has no 'user guide' (something I hope to remedy with the next release), but if you have questions about how it all works please feel free to post them over at the C&C forum and someone will be glad to help you out.

[Sakusammakko]

FWIW, feel free to holler if you need any suggestions, etc.

[Galeric]

Thank you very much for that link Sorcerer, i was wondering how i was going to learn the ropes of the system.

So far so good, liking FG a lot. Would it be in my interest to upgrade to an ultimate? i bought a full and several lite licenses.

[Sorcerer]

the only difference between the Ultimate license and a full license is that it allows players who have no registered version of FG (so basically the free download) to connect to your games.

The software itself is exactly the same.

If you already have enough lite licenses for your players then I would not upgrade at this stage as you will gain no benefit.

Give the software a try first and if you like it, and if you later find yourself short of players, then the upgrade may be worth it to attract players wanting to try it out your games.

[Sorcerer]

Galeric

I forgot to mention earlier.

The current C&C ruleset version is V2.05

The download that you buy in store is (as far as I know) V2.0.

(When you load your campaign you can see the C&C ruleset version number in the chat window)

The v2.05 patch (which is in the form of a ruleset extension file) can be found for download in the C&C forum.

Extension files are used a lot for community built customizations. They are used as is (not extracted or installed).
you simply drop them into your extensions folder (if you are using windows go to the start menu and find fantasy grounds there should be a shortcut to the "application Data folder". This is where all your campaign and module data is stored. You will see the extensions folder there).
when you start FG and select load(or create) campaign, any relevant extensions for that ruleset will be listed. check the radio button next to it to activate it.

I have distributed this update (which is a combination of bug fix and a couple of extra features) as an extension because it is quicker to distribute and means the hard pressed smiteworks team do not have to repackage the ruleset too often.
The other benefit is that extensions only override the ruleset files they do not overwrite them. This means if I get it wrong all you have to do is uncheck the extension to roll back to the previous version..

[rule of three]

I've looked at the LL and OSRIC rulesets and they are labors of love. Nevertheless, it's felt like there is something missing from the implementations. I just kept getting the feeling that they weren't finished (which may or may not be true). That's understandable as the guys who worked on them did this in their free time.


The OSRIC ruleset IS finished. Too finished maybe because many people have asked how to use it correctly... But it's finished : I use it for two years now, without modifications, except my "ad&d1e" extension. That's why the modules are not finished yet : I only use spells and monsters from 1e. Maybe this summer ?