Preferred Token Style

[unerwünscht]

Going to start making new token packs and skins again, but wanting to see what the communities preferred token style is.

[VenomousFiligree]

Voted Top Down and Portrait, however I'd prefer square portrait to round

[Leonal]

I prefer round/square portrait tokens and voted for that. The top down ones, although often well created, never did it for me.

However, after getting a whole lot of Fiery Dragon tokens, not being able to use them properly due to transfer issues to some players and not wanting to spend the time necessary to find and assign fitting tokens to each NPC, I decided to just use the built in letter tokens.

[Oberoten]

I love well-crafter tokens. But I have the same issue. If I use them FG lags down to be unusable.

So... VERY simple top-down tokens is what I use nowadays.
(( And still... I have almost everything that Tailz released. ))

- Obe

[Zeus]

I voted for round disc based tokens, always been my favourite as its very easy to convert a standard web image into a token or pog. Also means I can create tokens from a variety of sources very quickly. Last count I made:


750 (ish) NPC tokens - assigned across MM, MM2, MM3 and various Dungeon modules
250 PC class tokens - sat in the app data/tokens/host folder
54 Trap/Hazard tokens - sat in the app data/tokens/host folder
35 Letter/Number tokens - for misc play or for when I don't have a specific token/pog prepared again in app data/tokens/host
15 AoE tokens - for determining area of affect for attacks/powers - app data/tokens/shared
20 or so general marker tokens for misc play - app data/tokens/host


All my tokens are scaled to 50px x 50px.

To date I have never had any token transfer issues, connection for my players tends to occur quite quickly, average player connects in under a minute. Curious to understand why so many of you seem to hit problems with tokens?

[Fot5]

My favorites come from Fiery Dragon: https://fierydragon.com/dragonsbreath/. If I run into something that they don't have an icon for, I create a similar one by copying a picture of the monster (e.g., out of the source book or Dungeon or Dragon magazine) and use Photoshop to crop it, resize it, and then save it as a .png file. I even created a beveled edge overlay to make the home made ones look more polished.

[Griogre]

I voted for round tokens but I like square ones better. Particularly on large creatures, its a pain to move round tokens diagonally. Like Fot5, I also use lots of the Fiery Dragon tokens. I like the portrait style ones better because as DrZuess says its easy to make a token that more or less matches your others if you don't have one for a creature.

DrZuess, I keep about the same number of tokens in FG, with 35 shared tokens mostly AOEs, beads, arrows, horse, mule, party token and the rest host. In my host folder I have 24 generic monsters of assorted sizes and colors and another 64 assorted color mixed sized beads to use if I don't have a specific token. I have a bit less than 700 heroic and paragon monsters from the various MMs and 200ish npcs tokens as well as another 18 wall, door and secret door tokens. My tokens are scaled to 32 pixel squares.

Many of the token problems are when you have a large number of tokens in shared. If you moved your tokens from host to shared you would probably get some more hiccups on connecting. The biggest effect large numbers of tokens in the host folder has that I have observed is the time it takes FG to start. That annoys me so I tend to limit my total tokens in the host folder to about a thousand. I have hundreds of other tokens I don't keep in FG.

I think the token scale is very important in not having problems with tokens because that has such a huge impact in the token's file size and how much data you have to push to the clients. Your 50x50 tokens are twice the file size of my 32x32s. From observation it really seems people have a lot of problems with a token scale of larger than 50x50, especially if they have thousands of tokens.

[Zeus]

I voted for round tokens but I like square ones better. Particularly on large creatures, its a pain to move round tokens diagonally. Like Fot5, I also use lots of the Fiery Dragon tokens. I like the portrait style ones better because as DrZuess says its easy to make a token that more or less matches your others if you don't have one for a creature.

DrZuess, I keep about the same number of tokens in FG, with 35 shared tokens mostly AOEs, beads, arrows, horse, mule, party token and the rest host. In my host folder I have 24 generic monsters of assorted sizes and colors and another 64 assorted color mixed sized beads to use if I don't have a specific token. I have a bit less than 700 heroic and paragon monsters from the various MMs and 200ish npcs tokens as well as another 18 wall, door and secret door tokens. My tokens are scaled to 32 pixel squares.

Many of the token problems are when you have a large number of tokens in shared. If you moved your tokens from host to shared you would probably get some more hiccups on connecting. The biggest effect large numbers of tokens in the host folder has that I have observed is the time it takes FG to start. That annoys me so I tend to limit my total tokens in the host folder to about a thousand. I have hundreds of other tokens I don't keep in FG.

I think the token scale is very important in not having problems with tokens because that has such a huge impact in the token's file size and how much data you have to push to the clients. Your 50x50 tokens are twice the file size of my 32x32s. From observation it really seems people have a lot of problems with a token scale of larger than 50x50, especially if they have thousands of tokens.

I agree, I suspect number of tokens, size and bandwidth of the hosts upstream is what's most likely impacting performance for some users.

BTW. When I first started using FGII I had horrendous network performance issues. In the end I discovered my router had SPI enabled. Disabling SPI improved performance to the point that since that change I haven't had any further issues.

[Slipshod]

I've been using the DnD Minis (converted via a script excellent person here wrote) for my group, and I'm really happy with that.

I always wanted to like the top-down ones, but in practice they didn't work out like I hoped. If the game system doesn't factor in facing they don't seem to be all the useful. And if you have a portrait or full miniature from the side it's really handy to be able to deal with prone/dying critters by just rotating them onto their side.

[Bidmaron]

Well, I voted miniatures for the reason Slipshod said and because I thought portraits were just views of the head/shoulders (i.e. bust). It sounds like some are using portraits for what I think of as miniatures (i.e. full front/side views), but maybe miniatures include the base? Anyway, as with most polls, you don't get good results because the poll isn't precise enough to illicit the proper response (or doesn't include enough choices, driving the "well, I chose this because I could only pick one" kind of response).

[Valarian]

I prefer top-down by far. If I'm going to buy tokens, that's what I'd look for. With TokenTool, I can create the little round tokens with any picture I can find. However, they're not the same as a top down token looking like a miniature. Devin Night's stuff is especially good, though it's a pity there's not more available that isn't fantasy (e.g. pulp, scifi, modern).

[Blue Haven]

Well i agree with Valarian but right now i´m addicted to side view minis :) eh eh eh well i make them more front view but its all the same :)

[Callum]

I prefer round tokens, as I can easily make my own from other images, and I don't like to have mixed token types on a map.


I voted for round disc based tokens, always been my favourite as its very easy to convert a standard web image into a token or pog. Also means I can create tokens from a variety of sources very quickly. Last count I made:


750 (ish) NPC tokens - assigned across MM, MM2, MM3 and various Dungeon modules
250 PC class tokens - sat in the app data/tokens/host folder
54 Trap/Hazard tokens - sat in the app data/tokens/host folder
35 Letter/Number tokens - for misc play or for when I don't have a specific token/pog prepared again in app data/tokens/host
15 AoE tokens - for determining area of affect for attacks/powers - app data/tokens/shared
20 or so general marker tokens for misc play - app data/tokens/host


All my tokens are scaled to 50px x 50px.

Wow! As a fellow 50x50 man, I have to ask: is there any way you might consider sharing your token collection?

[Zeus]

I prefer round tokens, as I can easily make my own from other images, and I don't like to have mixed token types on a map.


Wow! As a fellow 50x50 man, I have to ask: is there any way you might consider sharing your token collection?

I would genuinely have no issue sharing them (in fact if you visit my resource page you can download my 4E style letter tokens already), I pretty much share all my own material however I can't share these as I have no desire to be hunted down by the WotC legal team. :(

All of my tokens were made in Photoshop using images taken from DDI Image archive (WotC digital compilation of all the artwork published in the official D&D 4E Monster Manuals and other rulebooks) and manipulated using some Actions.

I guess if you have a DDI subscription and can download all the images you want I can make a video which shows you how I make mine. The process can be a little tedious but I can show you a trick or two to speed it up with batch automation and a Photoshop Action template I have.

I'm producing some video guides for how I make my maps at the moment, so this might have to wait a little but I'll happily add it to the video to do list. I'll post up the Action template in the next day or so.

[Callum]

No worries, DrZeuss - I quite understand. I didn't realise that they all came from DDI images.

[demonsbane]

I prefer top-down tokens. Even if they are more difficult to make, they have the advantage of being equally well suited for both square (DnD) and hexgrids (GURPS). Also, they convey a stronger "tactical" feeling.

Round-portrait style tokens share the same advantage, but they are more tricky to use in game systems in which "facing" is important (GURPS). On the other hand, these tokens are much more easy to make. These round-portrait style tokens convey a stronger "in character" feeling.

[Honken]

Sorry for comming late into this thread, i voted for pretty much anything but generic with numbers/letters. And since I have considered playing GURPS with FG it is good to have tokens with easily recognized facing.

What I do miss though, is modern urban fanatsy type stuff, and sci-fi. I understand though that sci-fi tokens might be hard since it all might depend on the feel of whatever sci-fi game one is playing.

/Honken

[ddavison]

Never underestimate the absolute fear inspired by a 3x3 letter G storming across the map to attack you. :D

[demonsbane]

Never underestimate the absolute fear inspired by a 3x3 letter G storming across the map to attack you. :D

Very true. Harrison Ford suffered the assault of one of such tokens (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4rTqIKbqz_E#at=145) (just jump to 2:24), but the round token was in 3D!


https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12554407/The-Ball-and-Indie-indiana-jones-1379826-485-330.jpg

[GMTroll]

Round tokens can work with systems where facing is important. Just make sure that each token has an arrow or other suitable indicator that will be used to determine current facing.

[Emrak]

I guess if you have a DDI subscription and can download all the images you want I can make a video which shows you how I make mine. The process can be a little tedious but I can show you a trick or two to speed it up with batch automation and a Photoshop Action template I have.

I'm producing some video guides for how I make my maps at the moment, so this might have to wait a little but I'll happily add it to the video to do list. I'll post up the Action template in the next day or so.

I think that would make a cool video! Did you ever finish the map guide tutorials?

[demonsbane]

Round tokens can work with systems where facing is important. Just make sure that each token has an arrow or other suitable indicator that will be used to determine current facing.

True, they *can* work in that way . . . but IMHO, suboptimally. Time ago I posted around here a few screenshots displaying portrait style round tokens + facing indicators for substantiating my appreciation on the subject.

The essence and readability of the pictures in the round frames is spoiled by making them to adopt weird angles and disparate orientations:


https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12554407/fg%20try%20facing.JPG https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12554407/Griogre%27s%20frame%20sugesstion%20II.jpg

In these kind of tokens, ideally, that facing indicator (arrow or any other suitable mark) should be movable independently of the portrait -at least if you want to avoid somewhat messy results.

For instance (screenshots from other applications):


https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12554407/maptool1.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12554407/OpenRPG%20Heading.JPG

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12554407/OpenRPG_Facing.jpg

[demonsbane]

In these kind of tokens, ideally, that facing indicator (arrow or any other suitable mark) should be movable independently of the portrait -at least if you want to avoid somewhat messy results.

Maybe an effective answer to this issue lies in the next 2.8.0 release, which enables the use of different, independent layers in the images/maps windows.

There is already an extension (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=110753#post110753) taking advantage of this:


I have been working with JPG to see if we could re-visit the multi-layer map functionality Foen explored a while back. The Enhanced Images extension exploits JPG's new API functionality introduced in v2.8 to enable three layers (background, features and play) enabling a DM to compile three images which are then overlaid over one another to provide a composite map view for play. The extension enables a DM to build map images using tile based tokens without incurring FGII token stacking issues.

Regarding the portrait style tokens, this multiple layers implementation has the potential for handling facing indicators for round portrait style tokens independently of the underlying token and without stacking issues: the token is in a layer and its facing indicator in another layer, so you can move/change facing without messing the token below.

Perhaps a different extension could address this usage more specifically.

[Zeus]

Whilst 4E Enhanced Images overcomes the issues with token stacking. For token facing/direction functionality, I think this would be better suited to Joshuha's recent experimentation with token overlay/state icons.

Joshuha's updated Foundation Core ruleset includes the functionality for adding additional state tokens ontop of regular FGII tokens.

e.g. Bloodied or Marked status

It should be possible to adapt Joshuha's approach to also include provision for changing the direction a token is facing. I am think a small arrow placed on the bottom edge of the token facing the direction the token is facing.

It should be possible to then alter the direction of the icon or widget without affecting the physical rotation of the token.

Just my two pence worth.

[demonsbane]

You are right! Some weeks ago, prior to the release of Joshuha's updated Foundation Core ruleset, this usage of token overlay/status icons for denoting token facing — directional arrows — was discussed with Joshuha in the FG2 Chat.

Now, at the moment I don't know the current status of the subject.

[Zeus]

Well Foundation Core has been released but not sure whether token direction was added specifically. https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15391

I need to drop Joshuha a note regarding 4E Enhanced Images as I'd like to retro fit his code into my extension for 4E. If he agrees, I might see if I can add support for token direction too.

[demonsbane]

(. . .) If he agrees, I might see if I can add support for token direction too.

That would be great :)

Round, portrait-style tokens usually are easier to get than top-down ones. I mainly stopped trying to use them with Fantasy Grounds because the lack of facing indicators for them.

[p0l]

current party:
https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/pab3925/Kingmaker/Trenloes.png https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/pab3925/Kingmaker/Gerrand.png https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/pab3925/Kingmaker/BoulderGrey.png

This is not too hard and looks great on the battlemap. Yes, it still has no orientation, but usually Pathfinder doesn't require it.

Also, this is very good for comparing scales with tokens for BIG creatures. Really gives you a sense of how big the dragon or the troll is compared to the PCs

[Griogre]

I'm curious about the circle base. Why did you end up using it? Did it address a certain need or is it purely aesthetic?

[p0l]

The circle base can be colored to indicate different factions, but its mostly useful for the difference between the token and the space it occupies.

Specially for larger/smaller tokens.

This is my 5ft base.

If you check a giant sipder, for example, of large size, its legs will extend beyond the 10ft circle base. That gives the token the idea of its reach, but that you have to get close to attack it

If you use a diminutive creature, that is really a very small token, you have the base to show the square it occupies.

I'll upload more examples from home tonight, but imagine the different giants, a stone giant is 12ft tall, so it would be about twice as tall as the elf archer I posted earlier. A frost giant would be about 15ft tall, so, a little bigger. Even tough they have the same circle base size.

[Trenloe]

But imagine the different giants, a stone giant is 12ft tall, so it would be about twice as tall as the elf archer I posted earlier. A frost giant would be about 15ft tall, so, a little bigger. Even tough they have the same circle base size.
I like the idea. :)

I just hope that when there is a lot of close combat we don't have token stacking issues - they can be a pain in the.... ;)

[p0l]

No, no matter the size of the token, the circle bases should not intersect, unless they are grappling or grabbed or being eaten.

For example, a dragon Great wyrm says it has a 15ft reach with wings and tails, and 20ft reach with bite. That would make it occupy a 35ft by 30ft area. But the base is only a 20ft circle. The neck, tail and wings extend way beyond it.

[Trenloe]

No, no matter the size of the token, the circle bases should not intersect, unless they are grappling or grabbed or being eaten.

For example, a dragon Great wyrm says it has a 15ft reach with wings and tails, and 20ft reach with bite. That would make it occupy a 35ft by 30ft area. But the base is only a 20ft circle. The neck, tail and wings extend way beyond it.
I was more referring to Fantasy Grounds and tokens overlapping - as the graphics of the tokens go beyond their actual space on the map, they will overlap with graphics when other tokens are close. Fantasy Grounds doesn't handle overlapping tokens too well - it is not obvious which one will be selected when you click on an area with graphics from more than one token.

[Griogre]

I like the circles but don't use side on tokens because of what Trenloe said, tokens that extend much out of their base size are problematic to move around. The solution is to keep the graphics mostly inside their base size but if you use a small grid like I do that tends to turn them into graphic mush.

[Blackdove]

I very much enjoy the Top-Down Tokens. Really helps immerse myself into the games and visualize what's happening on screen. And the transparency allows further helps with this and keep the map clean. Besides that square for the grid placement.

[Shockbolt]

Some of you may already be familiar with the token/tile/terrain kit I'm creating these days, it's a top-down fantasy art kit with terrain backdrops, decals, tiles for constructing buildings and tokens such as creatures, monsters, fantasy characters, items of all sorts and objects such as chests, barrels, chairs, beds and other inventory you'd want to fill the buildings with.

The kit will come in 3 sizes, small, medium and large. Large is for printing purposes if you'd like to use the kit with your physical rpg campaigns instead of using FG2 or any other VTT.

I've had a thread about these running in the Rolemaster section for a while now, along with the thread for the new UI graphics I've made for Rolemaster.

You can check out the Kickstarter page for this kit here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/vortexgames/game-masters-campaign-the-fantasy-art-kit

And you will find the thread where I'm usually posting previews here:

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17090

Here are also some previews, so you'd immediately see what they'll look like in the end when the kit is completed:

https://www.digitalartwork.no/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/MonsterTileDragonA013.jpg

https://www.digitalartwork.no/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Dungeon_tileset_002.jpg

https://www.digitalartwork.no/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/maleSpellcaster01.jpg

[demonsbane]

Some of you may already be familiar with the token/tile/terrain kit I'm creating these days, it's a top-down fantasy art kit with terrain backdrops, decals, tiles for constructing buildings and tokens such as creatures, monsters, fantasy characters, items of all sorts and objects such as chests, barrels, chairs, beds and other inventory you'd want to fill the buildings with.

These are awesome tokens, Shockbolt, and the list of new pieces that you are planning to do sounds very useful for fantasy games. I wish you good luck with the kickstarter project.

[Trenloe]

Shockbolt's animal and monster tokens are now available as free modules to all Full+ FG license holders. Perform an update (I'm not sure if you need to have your FG store user ID and password in the update tool for this to work or not) and the update should download animals.mod and monsters.mod - activate these modules in a campaign and you will see new folders in the tokens bag.

[JohnD]

Last year when I was starting with FG I preferred the top down style... now that I have more experience, I find that I vastly prefer the "pog"/portrait style.

[demonsbane]

Round-portrait style tokens (. . .) are more tricky to use in game systems in which "facing" is important (. . .). On the other hand, these tokens are much more easy to make. These round-portrait style tokens convey a stronger "in character" feeling.

Since facing indicators have been finally implemented, portrait style tokens are also an option for me.

[Griogre]

This poll should probably be closed as its several years old.

[Trenloe]

This poll should probably be closed as its several years old.
Done.