A couple of 4E questions.

[TFWoods3]

Fully built NPC vs Monster worth more XP?

There are some villains in my game that I would like to build as a full character instead of a stat block. Would this be considered more powerful than a stat block monster, and if so, what would be the XP difference?

Situation Question
The characters walk into an inn, an NPC at a table did not expect to see them return alive, this must mean they have killed all his minions at the hidden cave. The players still do not suspect the NPC is involved. The NPC talks with them long enough to find out if they did kill his minions, and then suddenly unleashes a spell on them. Should this be a surprise attack or should the players get a chance to roll initiative possibly attacking him first?

At most I was thinking of letting them roll PER or Insight to possibly get a chance to roll initiative, but was wondering if there are any rules out there for a sudden, unexpected attack.

Thanks

[mattcolville]

Fully built NPC vs Monster worth more XP?

There are some villains in my game that I would like to build as a full character instead of a stat block. Would this be considered more powerful than a stat block monster, and if so, what would be the XP difference?

Situation Question
The characters walk into an inn, an NPC at a table did not expect to see them return alive, this must mean they have killed all his minions at the hidden cave. The players still do not suspect the NPC is involved. The NPC talks with them long enough to find out if they did kill his minions, and then suddenly unleashes a spell on them. Should this be a surprise attack or should the players get a chance to roll initiative possibly attacking him first?

At most I was thinking of letting them roll PER or Insight to possibly get a chance to roll initiative, but was wondering if there are any rules out there for a sudden, unexpected attack.

Thanks

It's up to the players to think for their characters. If they don't suspect the dude, no insight. Now, you may feel that's unsporting. In which case the thing to do is to *play* the NPC as someone behaving in a suspicious manner so the players think "hmm...."

I don't think NPC should be worth more XP than a monster because the things that make an NPC more powerful are those things that can only be done over a series of battles. Encounter powers, Daily powers. Monsters don't get those because their life expectancy is One Encounter.

What I would do is just give the players quest XP for killing a named bad guy.

[TFWoods3]

It's up to the players to think for their characters. If they don't suspect the dude, no insight. Now, you may feel that's unsporting. In which case the thing to do is to *play* the NPC as someone behaving in a suspicious manner so the players think "hmm...."

I don't think NPC should be worth more XP than a monster because the things that make an NPC more powerful are those things that can only be done over a series of battles. Encounter powers, Daily powers. Monsters don't get those because their life expectancy is One Encounter.

What I would do is just give the players quest XP for killing a named bad guy.

I was thinking about:

* Let the players roll Initiative but the only thing they can do in time is full defense vs the sudden attack. Kind of like someone throwing their arm in front of their face as something comes at them.

Is it unfair to give a caster this kind of advantage? If this were a melee character he would have to draw his sword; even if he already had the sword drawn the character would be aware of it. Should a caster have a "draw the sword" before attack moment ... say he starts to do hand gestures for example.

[Griogre]

Passive Insight vs. Passive Bluff is how I would do it. If you think the players are totally unsuspecting give them a -2 on their Passive Insight. If the character meets or exceeds the bluff he's in the surprise round, otherwise he's surprised.

I don't think its unfair to give a caster that type of advantage in 4E - assuming the NPC is of an appropriate level. NPCs, even build like PCs typically aren't as good as monster spell casters unless you are talking paragon or epic. There aren't any "save or dies" and 4E characters are not that fragile. Given the situation you have outlined the characters would at least have their encounter powers and if the lair was a day away probably all their dailies.

[Demogorgon]

Personally I like to use the 4e party sheet to make insight rolls for everyone at once. I then see who passed the DC (npc Bluff check) and allow those people to take a limited action (as per the rules) during the surprise round. Everyone always gets to roll initiative. The first round however is the surprise round were you can take a limited action (standard, minor, or move) or sit around surprised and be forced to pass your turn.

Just be careful about using PC rules for NPC and monsters. 4e isn't designed that way. You NPC will go down very fast if you do that. In 4e there are separate rules for PCs and monsters. Your NPC wizard should really be an Elite monster with a class template (Wizard).

[DNH]

the thing to do is to *play* the NPC as someone behaving in a suspicious manner so the players think "hmm...."

Think of every film or tv show you have ever seen, where the camera lingers unnecessarily on someone's brooding face or we see them clenching their fists in anger while the heroes/rivals are not looking. It's dramatic licence, the cues to the audience (often quite over-the-top) on the motivations of the characters, and you often have to use it in your RPGs.

[Oberoten]

I work a lot with cutscenes. It is a nice tactic if you have players who manage to keep IC and OOC knowledge apart.

And it is a GOOD way to introduce something that they just KNOW will come and bite them in the behind later. Of course I just as often use miss-leading cutscenes to see if they bite.

Heck if they all of the sudden get an urge to go to Alderan because I showed them a cutscene where a Moff just prepared to move his experiments there and forgot to show the howering death-star? Too bad. ;)