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Sorcerer
February 9th, 2011, 21:26
Whilst messing about with the character sheet tonight I noted a bug in the weapon damage dice.

Basically if you drop more than 1 die into the damage dice field and roll them it will roll an extra die.

ie. if you add 1d6 it rolls 1d6, but if you add 2d6 it rolls 3d6..

I'm actually surprised no one has noticed this before, but maybe most weapons only roll 1 die for damage.

basically it all comes down to my programming skills (or lack of them).

so please accept my humble apologies, the attached patch (with is as before cumulative with v2.01-2.04) should clear this up.

if not (or if it causes any other issues) please let me know.

EDIT: ATTACHMENT Removed - Patch Superseded by v2.06, see separate thread.

Sakusammakko
February 10th, 2011, 08:04
I noticed this in the last month, but had forgotten to say something. This was a bug that was only recently introduced.

Thank you for fixing it.

Sorcerer
February 10th, 2011, 10:00
Hi Sakusammakko,

Yes this bug was introduced by me when I added the double click damage code, unfortunately I managed to mess up the drag damage code (which had previously worked perfectly) at the same time.

anyway it should be back in working order now...

Just as a point of note for you.

I know that previously you make some alterations to the injury display text (among other things).

As far as I recall everything that you suggested be changed, has actually been incorporated into this and previous patches.

EXCEPT: the exchange of "Dying" for "Bleeding Out". Which remains as "Dying".
There is, I'll admit, some element of personal choice in my decision to leave this as was; but also the more practical reason, that "Bleeding Out" is a little too long for the space provided on the client combat tracker, and also because you can be at minus hit points without actually bleeding at all.

in any case, I just wanted to let you know that if you use this patch you will be reverting back to "dying". If you don't want to do that then the only file changed to fix this bug is Charsheet_Combat.xml, so extracting that from this extention and dropping it into the ruleset folder should fix the problem without changing your customized files (Back up your current Charsheet_Combat.xml before overwriting it, incase something goes wrong!)

Additionally, just as a glimpse into the future, in the development version I am (sort of unoffically) working on. I have expanded the area on the client tracker where the injury state is displayed in order to accomodate longer descriptions, and I have set up a slash command so that you can customize these statements without resorting to ruleset editing.

It is difficult to try to please everybody, but hopefully this will help people to set things up the way they like them.

Sakusammakko
February 10th, 2011, 21:22
Thank you for thinking of me. I have a few questions:

1) For my info, if I wanted to fix the double dice damage code, where would I find that and what change would I make?

2) How do I incorporate this patch? Do i just drop it into the Extensions folder and then select it when starting up a session? Or do I need to extract it somehow? If it sits in the Extensions folder, how does it overwrite the files?

3) Are you sure the charsheet_combat file is the one that has the Bleeding Out text? I can't find it there. It's been awhile since I looked at that file and am not sure which one I changed.

Other than the double dice issue, the new ruleset has been working out really well.

As always, thanks for your efforts.

Sorcerer
February 10th, 2011, 22:44
items 1 and 3 are related...

when I talk about the charsheet_combat file, i do not mean that it contains the 'Dying' text. I mean that it contains the damage roll bug fix.
[text related to injury states is contained in 3 files combattraker_common.lua, combattracker_entry.lua and combattracker_status.lua]

so if you want to fix the bug, without altering the customizations you have already made, the only file you require to change is charsheet_combat.xml
you should be able to just swap the new file for the old, so unless that fails I will not go into the grizzly details about how to alter the script manually.

in order to get at the charsheet_combat.xml file you simply need to change the file extension of this patch from ext to zip, it will then behave exactly like a standard zip archive file which windows should be able to open without trouble, then you just need to drag the charsheet_combat.xml file from the zip archive to the ruleset folder (after backing up or moving the original file to somewhere safe).

if you did want to use the patch as is, then simply place it in the extensions folder and select it on the extensions list when you load your campaign. it will not overwrite any files, but it will override them. I.e the ruleset will use the files contained within the extension, but the original files within the ruleset folder will remain untouched, deselecting the extension will revert you to the previous configurations (i.e. FG will use the original files again).


Edit: I just realized that trying to explain all this is actually taking longer than simply editing the files for you...

so please find attached a 'personalized' patch which contains everything that was in patch v2.05 , but where i have altered the text to contain the now famous 'Bleeding out' phrase. You should just place it in the extensions folder as described above.

anyway I will try to get this text user customizable via the slash command before I put out any more update..

as before if you have any problems let me know.

Sakusammakko
February 12th, 2011, 08:51
Thank you for taking the time to teach a man to fish and giving him a fish!

I understand the process now.

No need to get in the habit of offering personalized patches for my sake. It's a slippery slope.

I've enjoyed the new version of the ruleset and have already bought 2 additional copies for players in one of my campaigns.

dr_venture
March 6th, 2011, 23:25
Hey Sorce,

Just a head's up: the bug still occurs for me the first time I drop the dice onto the weapon's stats, but after I clear the dice from the weapon, it works fine from then on. A big FYI here is that I have modified the first page of the character sheet quite a bit - dunno if that affects the 2nd page or not. I wouldn't think there would be any DB name conflicts or anything.

May I add a feature request: I'd love it if monsters/NPCs added to the Combat Tracker which had a hit point value of 0 would automatically have a random hit point value generated. I don't know how difficult that is, but as long as you're willing to listen, I'm willing to ask ;)

Many thanks for all of the hard work, my friend.

Sorcerer
March 7th, 2011, 18:02
Hi Dr V.

thanks for the feedback.

I have been playing about with various permutations for about an hour now, but I have not been able to recreate your experience.
Do you mean this occurs with every NEW weapon you create and add dice to after you applied the patch, or that it occurred the first time you either tried to roll dice of or added dice to weapons that already existed BEFORE the patch was applied. In other-words is this an ongoing problem or have you really already solved it?
I actually cannot conceive of a reason that this should still be happening on an ongoing basis.
just to check - you have only the V2.05 patch running and no other extension?

better news on the random hp front- this feature already exists - you just have to activate it.

go to the options window and the combat tab. there you will see "Randomize NPC hit points"
You have 3 choices: all, Group and off.

"Off" speaks for itself and I guess this is your current setting.

"All" means, all NPC's added to the CT will have hit points randomly generated.
"Group" means only NPC's with a count of 2 or more in the encounters window will be randomized.
This is because usually groups are generic creatures whereas if there is only 1 it is more likely to be a boss or a special creature where you want to set the HP yourself.

Note: if you set to All and the NPC already has an hp value set, this value will be ignored and a random value will be substituted. This is also true of groups under the Group setting. Setting to "All" will also randomize single creatures dropped directly on the CT as well as those that go through the encounters button.


With regards tot the links between character sheet page one (main) and page 2 (combat). There are actually quite a few (and probably even more in future versions) so you need to be careful what you change.

for example the damage dice field of the weapon list we have just discussed has a link.
when you roll damage the ruleset checks if the weapon is melee or ranged, if it is melee it takes the strength bonus from page 1 and adds it to the roll. This of course should have no bearing on the problem at hand.
(actually in this case not taken directly from that page, but from the db.xml file, using the 'address' defined in page 1 as source = "abilities.strength.bonus" )

just a quick question for you, while we are on the subject of weapons.

can you tell me how many weapons (on average) your players actually have on the weapon list at any one time. I am working on possible upgrades to how weapons (and items in general) are handled on the character sheet and this info might help me set things out properly. Actually I have written alot of code already and I am getting a little nervous that I might be going in the wrong direction, but I am always like that (thats why its not public until its ready!).

dr_venture
March 7th, 2011, 21:14
God, I *hate* letting my stupid flap around in the breeze for all to see. Ahem.

1) The hit die thing was total pilot error on my part. I had never noticed that when you drag consecutive dice onto the damage dice field, it adds them to the existing dice - I assumed it replaced them. I did figure this out last night, but my net connection was crapola & I couldn't post a clarification. I'm sorry you had to take the time to investigate my stupid. Doh!

2) The 'roll creature hits' feature does already exist - DOH! I mean, glad it's there, but I'm annoyed I didn't catch that. I was putzing around with a new campaign file to create a module for Greyhawk, and thus was using a campaign that didn't have that option set... as I had forgotten that option existed. The bottom line - excellent work, as usual.

3) I applied the latest patch, and everything works just fine. My edits to the first page of the character sheet are primarily to add a bunch of fields (many of which, I just found out last night, were added as an optional attributes in the Castle Keeper's Guide). FWIW, here it is:

http://castlecorps.com/images/cnc_char_sheet.jpg

Since the fields are all added fields with unique names, I don't think I've screwed anything up. Mainly, I live in fear of another new version of the rules coming out that would require me to rework the char sheet for a 3rd time. Thus, I'm very grateful that your updates have been patches which work with my modded ruleset.

4) I have a very small group of low level adventurers going right now, so their arms are pretty limited. Unfortunately, since arms & inventory items are not draggable, that means if your character ever might want to use a weapon, he has to keep it listed in the weapons section of the character sheet if he wants to avoid having to re-create it every time he wants to use it. For higher level characters, I could see that being a large number of weapons for the type of games I've played in - characters tend to get a lot of less powerful items with very specific powers, so they tend to hold on to the items in case they ever need them. Between magic & non-magic ammunition & weapons, I could easily see having 7 or 8 weapons per character... maybe more.

My ultimate dream solution would be to have a draggable inventory system like 4e (if I remember correctly) or Rolemaster, where you could just drag stuff from a list into your modules, from there onto your character sheets, and from there between your character's inventory and weapon list. Then the only weapons in the combat tab are the ones actually being used. I'm guessing that won't happen , if for no other reason, than the ruleset does not have draggable items in the first place (which may or may not be a contractual thing)... not to mention the programming involved, which seems like it could be kind-of a pain. Since the Castle Keeper's Guide now has data for types of containers and the amount they can hold, FG would be a great way to use that game mechanic in a relatively painless manner. Well, for the user, if not the programmer

Hey, a guy can dream, eh?

Sorcerer
March 7th, 2011, 22:07
well glad to hear that you have no issues.
It is always difficult to alter anything, without the thought that I might break something else..

the additions I am making to the items system are actually centered round a drag and drop system, That would obviously mean creating a module with all the players handbook items in the new format so that will be a lot of work.

At the moment I am just trying to get the system working.
currently I have as distinct item types, weapons, armor, potions and the Misc.

The weapons are causing most problems at the moment and I am having doubts about how I have chosen to implement the weapons system. Essentially I have set things up so that where the weapons list currently is, there are two horizontal tabs where you can select to show a list of all weapons (it actually just filters the weapons you have have in the inventory tab) or to show which 1 or 2 (for dual wield) are currently equipped. weapons are equipped through a check box system on the weapon list. This allows the data to be picked up and used by the combat tracker, but I am now wondering if it is abit too complicated and that players might not like the idea. We shall have to see how it goes, I have already started anew a couple of times so I may cut the idea altogether in the end...it depends. I just need to get things up and running and try it out a couple of times myself.

I do not plan to have a new version out for quite a while (It was over 3 years from V1 to V2!! Although probably not that long this time around), but I have to admit that I have already made a number of changes (at least to scripts) on the main page of the character sheet, currently nothing has changed with the layout. So you would be Ok copying your mods straight into the relevant slots on any future Charsheet_main.xml file.

dr_venture
March 8th, 2011, 02:01
Drag & drop inventory. You. Freakin'. Rule. You're single handedly changing C&C from a great game system with a workable FG implementation to a great game system with almost *must have* automation. I already can't imagine running the game in old school pen and paper mode... drag-and-drop inventory just seals the deal. When I was running 4e for my son, I could pre-populate the modules with all of the items the characters were likely to pick up (including the custom 'story' items, like a book of regional flora and fauna, etc.), then he could tell me who grabbed an item, I could drop it on their sheet, and everything would be updated as easily as that. It was really a dream to run, and you'll have reproduced almost all of the features that made it so. Thank you so much! For an update of that magnitude, I'll happily change the sheet again!

Let me know if there's anything I can do to assist you, and I'll certainly try. I'm not much of a programming whiz, but if you need another pair of eyes to check out functionality or do some testing, or maybe enter inventory items or something, let me know.

Some suggestions to embrace/ponder/ignore, as you see fit (in order of preference):

a) I'd kill for pretty much any of the features of the "Party Sheet" extension that someone on the boards here made for 4e. It's the single most useful GM tool I've seen, outside of FG itself. It has party overview screens for stats, money, skills (only an option in C&C, of course), inventory, languages... pretty much anything where a GM in a P&P game has commonly asked the players, "Does anyone have... ?" or "Does anyone know... ?" or "What's everyone's ...?" Super useful. It also has a little widget for setting marching order and overnight watch order. If you'd like me to track down where to grab a copy to look at, I'll be happy to do that for you.

b) Would you want to consider supporting an item type of 'container,' which is covered in Table 3.5 (pg. 55) in the Castle Keeper's Guide? It'd be neat to be able to specify that an item was being put into a bag (for instance) then have the sum total weight/EV of the bag's contents (and the bag itself) be listed as the bag's weight/EV. The container's weight/EV could turn red if the container had too much in it. It'd also be nice to be able to collapse/expand the container in the inventory.

c) In the perfect world (and I'm getting pie-in-the-sky here), it'd be cool to have the standard class and race abilities, as well as the "Advantages" (CKG, pg. 267) and Skills (same place in the CKG) be drag & drop text items. I'll call them 'Ability Items' for simplicity's sake, as those are the things I put on the Ability character sheet page. Since they have such a diverse variety of content and game effect, I'm thinking that they could all be represented by a generic textual object type, with just a title, 1 line summary (maybe), and a description field... kind of like a simple virtual index card. It would make adding new skills, abilities, and advantages easy for the GM, make creating a character quicker and easier, and it would make the 'Abilities' page of the character sheet much less cluttered, as the details of each Advantage Item could be viewed by clicking on the Ability Item's link.

d) It'd be handy to maybe add a tab to the Character Sheet called "Optional", which could contain the stats and character info outlined in the CKG, as well as a few slots for GMs to store their additional name/value fields, such as my 'Perception' or 'Curiosity' stats. It wouldn't be as slick as my editing them into the character sheet myself, with the drag-rolling and such, but it *would* carry over between releases from one new ruleset to the next.

All that said, if you didn't do another thing you'd have done more than enough. Many thanks!

dr_venture
March 9th, 2011, 23:41
In my avarice in communicating my feature wish lists, I forgot to comment on your weapon implementation comment.

First off, if you'd like to make a download available, I'd be happy to take a look and give you some feedback (I have a long QA history & am used to using unfinished/unstable software). But from what you've described, I think your implementation sounds very useful. I do have one character with 4 or 5 weapons right now, and it's a pain to scroll through to find the one that's equipped - especially if it's the last one in the list.

I can imagine how it might be a little odd to some people to have a list that you equip weapons on, and another list in the same place where you interact with a subset of those weapons (mark off ammo, roll dice, etc.). I don't think your implementation is too complicated, but if that is your concern, you might want to consider renaming that area of the Combat page "Equipped Weapons," and making it only display weapons which are equipped. Put the tabs you described on the Inventory page (a tab for all items, a tab for weapons... maybe other tabs would be useful, too?). Then you would go to the Inventory page to interact with your items & equip weapons (which seems logical), and you would go to the combat tab to actually use them in battle. If no weapons were equipped, maybe you could put a message on the Combat page that says something like, "No weapons equipped (equip weapons on the Inventory page)."

Hope that's useful feedback.

dr_venture
March 9th, 2011, 23:55
(duplicate post removed)

Sorcerer
March 12th, 2011, 15:24
Hi Dr_V,

Thanks for the input.

It is my intention to enlist a couple of beta testers later on in the process (not just for this, but for all aspects of the ruleset)
but at the moment its not so much unstable as unusable, because everything is so interlinked I need to get to a certain point
before it would be usable by anyone other than me.

The reason for beta testing,this time around, is because of the number and level of complexity of updates/changes.
There were of course a great deal of changes between v1 and v2, but on the whole these were changes to the ruleset framework and added completely new features.

what I am working on now is centered on the character sheet and making things more useful in a C&C specific environment.
This means that any changes I make will directly effect user data, which is potentially quite dangerous.

In many cases things I am changing (like the drag and drop inventory) could mean a lot of extra work (in the beginning) for the GM and/or players, as they are forced to update items to the new format. In the case of weapons if they are not updated they will not even appear on the weapons list/inventory unless I include a lot of extra code to copy across from the old format - even here players (or GM's mostly) will have to manually edit these entries, because there is no way of knowing what kind of data is contained on your current weapons list.

Obviously a new campaign and new characters will have no problems, and a lot of software on the market forces you to start again after an update - but I don't really like that and I want to help people to transition (if they want to) without having to input everything again.

anyway getting back to the weapons list.
As you say, what I described might seem odd or complex to some people, but I think all new/different things seem odd at first until you get used to them, so I want to give the new design a try to see how it feels after a few weeks. and here user input will be very useful.
actually what you describe seems to me to be even more complex than what i have now. Maybe I can explain a little better, with the aid of some pictures, what i am trying to do or have done up till now.

The current system has (in the db.xml) an inventory list and a weapons list. These are separate, and so either you don't count your weapons in the EV calculation of the inventory, or you have to type them into both lists.
What I have now is actually only 1 list - the inventory list.
You can see the inventory page below. It looks much like it did before, with the exception of
1. a link button (for each item) on the far right linking to the item card of that individual item.
2. an equip check box at the left hand side of each item entry.

http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1852&stc=1&d=1299941303

(ok so you an also see the non-inventory list changes I have made below to the encumbrance box - I removed the number boxes for each encumbrance level [I'm sure people are very able to multiply the base by 1, 2,3,4 or 5] and put in a colored text indication of what your current encumbrance level is
increasing/decreasing the encumbrance carried automatically changes this text and the characters movement rate (which now appears here instead of on the combat page). AC dex bonus is also automatically negated at higher levels of encumbrance on the combat page.)

The list of weapons on the combat page has the same source as the inventory list (in the database), but is filtered to only show items with a weapons tag. It shows however, different data than the inventory list, begin more of a summary of the combat properties of the item.
As you can see below it is more of a text list, so more items can be shown in the window space. Each item has two equip buttons (Primary attack and offhand attack), or in the case of 2 handed weapons or ammo only one button.

http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1853&stc=1&d=1299941303

Only 2 one handed weapons and 1 ammo can be selected at any one time.
[or 1 2-handed weapon and 1 ammo]
Note the horizontal tabs above the weapons list window.
clicking on the equipped weapons tab, shows a list similar to the weapons list in the current release version of the ruleset (again this is just a different display view of the same inventory list database node)
however now it is not possible to add weapons to this list and it can only show those weapons currently equipped , so all of the equipped weapons are on view with no scrolling required.

http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1854&stc=1&d=1299941303

There are no more ammo checkboxes, only the total, because when you equip the ammo, it links it to the number of ammo items (lets say arrows) you have in inventory. when you roll an attack the number of arrows in the box (and on the inventory page) are reduced. When you reach zero it will not let you roll an attack for that ranged weapon unless you change the equipped ammo, instead it outputs a message to the chat window that you are out of ammo (if you have 4 attacks and only 2 arrows it will only roll two of your 4 attacks and then give the out of ammo message)
currently the ammo item is not deleted at zero. I might put an option in to do this, but I did not want to delete user data, which would mean that you then have to find the item again when you buy or find more arrows, but some Dm's (CK's!) may prefer this. For now if your arrows are reduced to zero and you won't get any more you have to delete the inventory item
manually.

when a PC is added to the combat tracker the equipped weapons appear where the NPC attacks/special attacks normally are. These are double click/drag roll-able. The range/reach of the weapon appears in the reach box. This means when you click on the token on the map it will highlight how far your attack can reach on the map so you can see if the enemy is in range. There is only one range/reach so currently I have set this to take the value of the primary attack. but I could change this to take the largest value (but I think the largest weapon should be in the primary hand,although this is not stated in the rules)

currently I have only implemented this on the Host side - the player side may follow if people want it. I know that seems strange, since the players roll there own attacks/damage. but I think they will likely continue to use the
combat page of the character sheet, because it has the other useful data there, and although not yet implemented I want to change the now defunct ammo mini into a weapons mini. For the Host he can now see which attacks will be coming without having 6 character sheets open at once. Meaning intelligent foes can be preprepared.
also it allows the host to have fully featured NPCs on Character sheets roll attacks, or to roll for absent players [fully featured NPC sheets is also another feature I am going to explore at a later date]

If more than 1 weapon is equipped, the dual wield penalties are applied to the weapons attack totals.
This brings me to another problem I have not yet solved, which is unarmed combat and in particular Monks who after level 5 do not have dual wield penalties (at least in unarmed combat). I need to consider if fists and feet need to be dragged and dropped as weapons (seems strange to me particularly as they would appear as inventory items with this system)
or if I need a check box to go into 'unarmed mode') or if I need another tab for this.

no work has been done, but I am leaning to a separate tab, because unarmed means you do not need to equip anything, and can conceivably have 4 attacks (2 hands 2 feet). As previously stated, I know the rules, but I want to try not to be limited by them. If I tie things up too tight, house rules will not be easy to implement. i want to try to avoid that.

There is as yet no armor tab on this page, but you will see small silver button near the top of the armor area, which in fact performs the same job as the tabs (although it opens a separate window), and was my first idea. Currently it only provides a summary of the armor currently equipped on the inventory tab [and so is read only], but I will probably change that to make it more like the weapons tab, listing all armor carried and allowing you to
change it . We shall see.

The AC value is automatically calculated from the armor worn, and the EV is adjusted (50% EV for worn armor over carried armor). There are some restrictions on equipping armor. If it is of type "full" then no other armor can be worn in conjunction with it (although a shields, rings etc are allowed) - items which cover only 1 area can be mix and matched, but due to the breadth of items available I have not put restrictions in so it is possible to equip 2 breastplates at the same time - so common sense must be used.

some of the things in your previous post are already in the works, but this is already a very long post as is..so I will leave it at that for now.

anyway I am going to take a break from all this stuff for a couple of weeks to come back with fresh ideas - it is after all only a hobby and not a job..

If you have comments or ideas post them, here or in another thread. I always listen - even if in the end I don't do/or can't do what you would like.

dr_venture
March 12th, 2011, 21:40
The Tome of Progress (or at least Good Intentions or Painful Coding or something)! It seems only fitting that I reply in kind. Thanks for sharing so much of what you're working on.

In looking at your screen shots, I don't think your implementation is too complex at all. In fact, as usual, I think all of the proposed changes that you have previewed here are improvements that I would very much welcome. I know what seems logical can be a pretty relative thing, but given that FGII itself isn't always exceptionally intuitive (I still occasionally run into stuff that I have to ask about), I think that your implementation is a good one.

Some feedback on your post (all FWIW, of course - I understand that this is a work in progress):


In many cases things I am changing (like the drag and drop inventory) could mean a lot of extra work (in the beginning) for the GM and/or players, as they are forced to update items to the new format... ...Obviously a new campaign and new characters will have no problems, and a lot of software on the market forces you to start again after an update - but I don't really like that and I want to help people to transition (if they want to) without having to input everything again.

I appreciate your concern, however - and I may be alone on this - I'd *much* prefer that the hours of coding required for a one-time transition assistance feature be put into new game play features that I'll enjoy as long as I'm using the software. Sometimes going through a process like that can also help me learn the ins and outs of a new feature/system. I say all of this as a GM with a small number of characters & NPCs - maybe GM's with more characters would have an understandably different opinion.

The only thing I'd request for the transition would be a way for me to see the old inventory items while I build the new inventory.

One suggestion: if you had a bit of code on the inventory page that, upon detecting non-drag-n-drop inventory items, displayed a button/link equivalent to "View Non Drag-N-Drop Items" (or something less lame). Clicking that button would display the old inventory items in a separate window. That way I'd be reminded that there were items to convert, and they'd be listed in a separate window, so I could see them while I was rebuilding the character's inventory.


what I described might seem odd or complex to some people, but I think all new/different things seem odd at first until you get used to them, so I want to give the new design a try to see how it feels after a few weeks.


Getting used to new ways of doing things is pretty part & parcel for using a computer these days. Also, as I said earlier, now that I see your screen shots, I don't think it's particularly confusing. If you wanted to be really explicit, you could just label the weapon areas (under the new tabs) "Equipped Weapons" and "Weapons in Inventory."


you can also see the non-inventory list changes I have made below to the encumbrance box - I removed the number boxes for each encumbrance level [I'm sure people are very able to multiply the base by 1, 2,3,4 or 5] and put in a colored text indication of what your current encumbrance level is


Super-mega double-lucky awesome - much improved. One question: is there a way for a GM to arbitrarily modify a character's encumbrance, say due to a Strength spell or portable hole or something?


increasing/decreasing the encumbrance carried automatically changes this text and the characters movement rate (which now appears here instead of on the combat page)

Is the 'Modifier' field for the movement rate still something I can set a value for, or is that field set according to the character's encumbrance? I hope it's still for my use, as I like to modify my character's movement based on their Dex.


The list of weapons on the combat page has the same source as the inventory list (in the database), but is filtered to only show items with a weapons tag. It shows however, different data than the inventory list, begin more of a summary of the combat properties of the item.


That's something I didn't get from your previous message, so the repeat of the weapon listings seemed redundant. I quite like your implementation. I assume that you won't be able to add new weapons from this screen (i.e., you'll have to add them via the Inventory screen).


Only 2 one handed weapons and 1 ammo can be selected at any one time. [or 1 2-handed weapon and 1 ammo]


Is there a way for a GM to handle characters who have a special ability (through great strength or training or other ability) to wield a 2 handed weapon in each hand? In theory, I very much appreciate the software handling these kinds of things for me, as long as there's a way to circumvent it if necessary.


There are no more ammo checkboxes, only the total, because when you equip the ammo, it links it to the number of ammo items (lets say arrows) you have in inventory. when you roll an attack the number of arrows in the box (and on the inventory page) are reduced. When you reach zero it will not let you roll an attack for that ranged weapon unless you change the equipped ammo, instead it outputs a message to the chat window that you are out of ammo

*Very* mega awesome (especially for battles where you have a *bunch* of NPCs/monsters to keep track of ammo for). My only comment is that I hope there's an easy way to put a missile weapon back into the character's inventory... like say if they make an attack roll, which results in a fumble where the character's bowstring breaks or they become distracted or whatever. It happens not all that infrequently in my games.


currently the ammo item is not deleted at zero

Yes, please don't do this. The vast majority of the time (the only exception really being when the item is single-use) the missile weapons are either scrounged up & retrieved or simply replaced by repurchasing. It'd be a pain to have to keep looking up the item in the master inventory sheets, rather than just replenishing the supply of an existing item.

If you wanted to get fancy, I'd personally love an optional 'wastage' value I could set for the base chance of missile items recovery, like say 85%, which would probably only apply for arrows and bolts, but for me that's the vast majority of missile weapons. Then replenish items via a radial menu with two options: 'Replenish Items' and 'Replenish with Wastage'. That'd be fun and slick bell and/or whistle to me, but hardly at all necessary.


There is only one range/reach so currently I have set this to take the value of the primary attack.

I think no matter what you choose it's going to be an imperfect choice, but I think that's the best option: most of the time people (me included) tend to think twice about attacking when they're at a negative.


I want to change the now defunct ammo mini into a weapons mini. For the Host he can now see which attacks will be coming without having 6 character sheets open at once. Meaning intelligent foes can be prepared.


I was just wondering the other day if I'm the only one who never uses the mini sheets? The only time I even consider them is when the mini sheet icon occasionally gets in the way of a character sheet item so that I can't read it.

As far as being prepared, couldn't I just look at your new & improved Combat Tracker to see what weapons the Chars have equipped (& thus have intelligent foes prepare appropriate defenses)?


If more than 1 weapon is equipped, the dual wield penalties are applied to the weapons attack totals.

Again, is this modifiable based on character type/training? As you can tell, I'm always looking for the way I can get around automatic rules if I need to... even though the majority of the time I'm very glad to have the software taking care of these issues.


This brings me to another problem I have not yet solved, which is unarmed combat and in particular Monks who after level 5 do not have dual wield penalties (at least in unarmed combat). I need to consider if fists and feet need to be dragged and dropped as weapons (seems strange to me particularly as they would appear as inventory items with this system)
or if I need a check box to go into 'unarmed mode') or if I need another tab for this.

no work has been done, but I am leaning to a separate tab, because unarmed means you do not need to equip anything, and can conceivably have 4 attacks (2 hands 2 feet). As previously stated, I know the rules, but I want to try not to be limited by them. If I tie things up too tight, house rules will not be easy to implement. i want to try to avoid that.


Having to 'equip' hands and feet seems wrong for the reasons you outline. The only thing I'd add, to stick with my theme, is that I'd like to be able to add/remove/modify unarmed combat/martial arts capability to characters as needed, based on my house rules... which you are happily already considering.

As to your comments on the armor/AC issue, that all sounds great. I'm perfectly happy with using some common sense in avoiding having multiple types of the same armor applied to a character. All of that is sounding good, though I don't know how you'd handle armor class if somebody's mixing/matching armor types.

All of this is sounding very good - I'm grateful you've got the reigns on this, as you really seem to be shepherding this rule set along a great path. I'm happy to provide any other feedback/testing that I can, and am anxiously awaiting the results of so much of your spare time!

Sorcerer
March 13th, 2011, 17:12
Doc.

I knew that I was opening a can of worms, by answering your post in so much detail..
Normally I follow Moon_wizard's philosophy, that no feature lists should be published before release and only basic information given out - this is to avoid disappointment, if features get changed or axed during the development process.

In this case, I broke those rules because I was worried about going down a technical cul-de-sac that users would hate. You have allayed my fears a bit.

that said I will try to answer the questions above.

Overall I very much agree with the premise, that as far as possible automations included should either be optional, or include methods to customize them.
The thing that I (and most players I know) like about RPG's is that they, unlike computer games, offer infinite possibilities, only limited by your own imagination. Inclusion of Automations can greatly enhance a game, but can box you in and limit those possibilities.
However, giving options to automations requires more code and time than the original automations required to develop, So I am attempting to strike some sort of balance - it is not easy, and I'm sure that no one will be 100% in agreement with everything I do.
There are some automations that have no outs - Noone has argued that we should enter the attribute bonuses on our own (not yet anyway), but I am trying to keep this type of a thing to a minimum.


Super-mega double-lucky awesome - much improved. One question: is there a way for a GM to arbitrarily modify a character's encumbrance, say due to a Strength spell or portable hole or something?

at the moment (just like the current release version), there is no way to manually adjust the encumbrance rating of a character.
However, the encumbrance rating is calculated based on strength bonus, and whether or not STR and/or CON are prime attributes
so in the case of a strength spell, if you adjust the characters strength the encumbrance will be automatically recalculated.
In the current release version STR bonus goes up to +4 with STR of 20 (even though the players handbook only lists a max of +3 with STR 18-19).
The CKG goes up to +10 with 30 STR, and as this will be relatively easy to do I will modify the next release to cover this.

With respect to portable holes and the like (You let your players have portable holes? you are more generous than I am !). You asked specifically about "containers" in a previous post - and I did not answer directly. I will only say that I have looked at containers, and would like to include something that covers them, but they are on the back burner until the basic system is settled. The likelihood is that they will not be in the next release due to time constraints.
That said, whilst I would like a more explicit system, they can be handled relatively easily in the current release (and therefore in the next release). All you have to do is write in the location field that the item is in the portable hole, and uncheck the 'EV padlock' checkbox - The items EV will then not be added to the total in the encumbrance field below.



Is the 'Modifier' field for the movement rate still something I can set a value for, or is that field set according to the character's encumbrance? I hope it's still for my use, as I like to modify my character's movement based on their Dex.

Yes the modifier box is my get out for things like boots of speed, or whatever magical or mundane house rules you have, and is totally user adjustable.
The base value is read only and self-populated if the race on the main page is recognized, if it is not recognized it is also user adjustable.
The total field is read only it totals the other 2 fields and then applies any encumbrance penalties.

In the CKG a DEX of 21 or higher gives a +10 feet bonus to movement, but like most optional rules in the CKG I have no plans as yet to include them in the ruleset (there are far too many core rules that need to be implemented first)
Personally i do not like a flat 10 feet bonus, since it is the same for all races, despite the differences in their base rates.

My old nemesis "the Monk" resurfaces here - I have as yet not thought of a way to include his fast movement ability (other than manual calculation and addition in the modifier field).



That's something I didn't get from your previous message, so the repeat of the weapon listings seemed redundant. I quite like your implementation. I assume that you won't be able to add new weapons from this screen (i.e., you'll have to add them via the Inventory screen).

That's what I thought, which is why I decided to release the images.
currently all drag and drop it to the inventory screen, but I could enable dropping to the weapons screen if people want it. It would not be difficult to implement (I think).
However there is no weapon creation option on either the weapons or inventory tabs - all weapon creation most be either via drag from a module or, but creation by the host - the host can also drag from a module and customize before dropping on the character sheet.
The host has full view and control of all aspects of the items (even fields not visible to the player). Players have a different view of the items from the host. Currently I have not decided which of the fields the player sees will be read only (if any) or user modifiable.


Is there a way for a GM to handle characters who have a special ability (through great strength or training or other ability) to wield a 2 handed weapon in each hand? In theory, I very much appreciate the software handling these kinds of things for me, as long as there's a way to circumvent it if necessary.

as described above I have not as yet locked out which fields are read only, but "wield" is one I was planning to leave as player adjustable, since there are some weapons (namely the bastard sword) which can be used 1 or 2 handed.
It would default to 1-handed, but the player could adjust to 2-handed if desired.
However, it does present some issues, since changing hand use, changes other attributes of the weapon (the B/Sword goes from 1d10 to 1d12 when moving from 1-handed to 2-handed) this would also currently have to be adjusted manually. Whether that is better left to the GM or to the player is a matter for debate..


*Very* mega awesome (especially for battles where you have a *bunch* of NPCs/monsters to keep track of ammo for). My only comment is that I hope there's an easy way to put a missile weapon back into the character's inventory... like say if they make an attack roll, which results in a fumble where the character's bowstring breaks or they become distracted or whatever. It happens not all that infrequently in my games.

the ammo total is totally open and adjustable (even to players who want to cheat!) basically if you need to be able to adjust the number in your inventory then it is stupid to make the ammo box read only - since they are actually the same value represented in different different boxes of the character sheet.
so if you want to add arrows back at the end of a round or combat then it should be easy to do.
I was thinking of adding natural 1 and 20 rolls as an option, because I always use them, and because it is mentioned as an option in the players handbook. I will revisit this if I have time.
If I do that, a fumble will automatically result in the arrow being added back to the total, but currently it is manual.



As far as being prepared, couldn't I just look at your new & improved Combat Tracker to see what weapons the Chars have equipped (& thus have intelligent foes prepare appropriate defenses)?

ignore this part of the previous post! When I wrote it the post was 13,000 characters - you are only allowed 10,000 per post so I ripped out alot of stuff - looks like I ripped out a paragraph here - and now I don't know what I was trying to say!:o



Again, is this modifiable based on character type/training? As you can tell, I'm always looking for the way I can get around automatic rules if I need to... even though the majority of the time I'm very glad to have the software taking care of these issues.

like everything discussed here, this feature is not finished. As it stands it is applied under all circumstances, but as I mentioned before, I need to find a way to get penalty free dual 'wield' attacks for monks, so whatever I do there should be applicable to other classes.
at the moment I am thinking it can be set with a checkbox (hidden to players) which the host can check if he does not want these penalties to be applied to this individual character.
that would allow house rules like you suggest (like ranger killing machines found in some older versions of another popular RPG).

of course all weapons can have the bonuses to hit and damage modified by the host or player. This is done through the mouse wheel (or CTL and mouse wheel) which will put a bonus modifier bubble (like what happens with temporary AC modifiers)
above the value modified. This would not be the preferred method for dual wield penalties, but could be used at a pinch.

anyway i will let you know when I am ready for 'beta testing', but that is quite far off.

I have set myself some goals as to what I want to include in the next release (assuming Smiteworks want to publish it).
I am trying not to add too many more features to this list, because otherwise it will never get released.
Still, I fear it will be a long road.

Sakusammakko
March 13th, 2011, 17:36
I'm still reading through these proposals. We're playing in 30 minutes.

I don't feel anything is missing. At first glance, how you've handled encumbrance and running out of ammo are really great.

If you find an easy way to handle the weapons issue, that's fine, too.

I'll read through these long posts sometime soon.

dr_venture
March 14th, 2011, 01:21
Sorce, my friend, you are too nice - I didn't mean to interrogate you, dude! :D

When I asked those questions, they were meant to be mostly rhetorical (if I have my definition correct)... just kinda musing out loud from another person's perspective for your consideration, to incorporate or freely ignore as the developer. Sometimes it's nice to hear feedback, even if it's something you've already considered, if only be more certain of your decisions.

I have found that articulating simple or one-step-away-from-obvious things, even with really smart programmers that are waaaay beyond me, has many times uncovered something that just got overlooked by a developer concentrating on addressing a complex issue and just missing something small. And if there's nothing new uncovered, so much the better.

So I'll just sum up my response to all of the above, short & sweet: I'm pretty stoked with all of your ideas, and very confident that the rule set is in great hands. I'm not planning on any features in future releases until I see them, as you haven't promised anything (nor should you).

Keep up the great work, bud... pretty please!

Sorcerer
March 14th, 2011, 08:37
Doc,

don't worry about asking questions, if I didn't want to answer them I wouldn't.

you have at the least allayed some of my fears about what I am working on, and reminded me of a few issues I need to deal with.

As I said, I will be looking for a couple of 'beta' testers a bit further down the line, when everything is a bit more stable. Asking good questions, and giving constructive feedback is a basic requirement for that job, so I have made a mental note to ask your availability nearer the time.

It is probably good to debate features, and get different perspectives on what people want and how they use the ruleset. I just want to manage expectations on what is possible.

vodokar
April 3rd, 2011, 14:40
I wanted to make you aware of something I noticed. When I turn on this extension, drag and drop damage for the player no longer works. Drag and Drop attack does still work, as well as, monster drag and drop attack and damage. I'm wondering if this has something to do with the new visibility function?

When I turn the extension off, thus reverting back to 2.0, the drag and drop damage for pc is restored.

Sorcerer
April 3rd, 2011, 17:48
vodokar,

it seems I managed to break this whilst fixing the 'duplicate damage dice' problem.
it was introduced in v2.05 and is not present in v2.04.

the only reported problem with v2.04 is the 'duplicate damage dice' (if your weapon rolls more than 1 die of damage it adds an extra die to the total - i.e. 1d6 is ok, but 2d6 actually rolls 3d6..).

if you are not using weapons with multiple dice damage I would suggest using V2.04 rather than v2.0. (V2.04 should be somewhere on these forums)

I have not had a lot of development time recently, but I will try to put out a fix for for this by the end of this week (that means next week since Sunday is the end of this week!!)

vodokar
April 3rd, 2011, 20:28
Aye, no hurry. I had just bought the ruleset this morning and was testing things out with some test combats, which is why I picked up on the bug so quickly. Thanks for your quick response. The fact that the ruleset had this level of automation was what pulled me over the edge for deciding to get the ruleset.

Even nicer than drag and drop attacks and damage would be functional targeting with double click attack and damage rolls directly from the character sheet and combat tracker. Hopefully, eventually when you get time, you might ask moon_wizard how he did that for 4e and can add in a future release?

Other than that, the C&C ruleset seems awesome. AD&D style play with almost the same level of functionality in an FG ruleset as the 4e ruleset and all with a very classy and professional appearance. What's not to like.

Sorcerer
April 5th, 2011, 18:16
vodokar,

I have posted a fix for this in its own thread

thanks again

Sorcerer