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mattcolville
November 28th, 2010, 19:47
I attempted to run a game Friday night. It was not successful. But I anticipated there would be a ton of problems and so only had 2 friends in the game and explained to them we might not get past the first encounter, which we didn't. Everyone understood this was just a test.

I came away with a lot of questions, not all of which are directly related to 4E, but I figure I might as well put them all in one place. I figure I can knock some of these out with some research, but I thought I might as well write them all down in case I can't.

1: Is there a way to scale an individual token? I had tokens of different sizes from different sources and it seemed like my only resource was to bring them into Photoshop and make them all the same scale.

2: Does anyone else have any problems getting maps to zoom in/zoom out properly? One of my players managed to get his map zoomed too far in and was unable to get it zoomed back out, and I find that I often have a problem with not being able to see the whole map, and being unable to zoom out to see it all.

3: There was an option in a context menu to attach a speaker to Box Text. But when I selected it, I got no prompt for which speaker I wanted to assign. How does this work?

4: I noticed when I prepped my adventure, I tested all my links and they worked. When I ran it, some of the links no longer worked and the map suddenly didn't load. I got what I looked like a blank parchment instead. Nothing had changed, other than I quit the program. Is this a bug?

5: This is a big one:

It appears as though the only way to get the Battle Map, which is to say an image with a grid on it, to understand the tactical presence of players and NPCs, is to drop them in from the Combat Manager. But this means, apart from the first encounter, there appears to be no way to set up an encounter beforehand, during prep. Place the bad guys on the map ahead of time. Because they're not in the Combat Manager yet.

But I feel certain it's possible to set up an encounter. What's the scoop?

6: I think I don't really understand the difference between an Effect and a Modifier. Someone Charged and I had Charge entered, perhaps improperly, as a modifier, but I couldn't figure out how to apply it to the NPC charging. If I set it up right, will the parser understand the Charge lasts only so long, or will I have to turn it on and off?

7. A player had a power that marked someone and I think he didn't enter it right, because it didn't do anything. But when I entered "Marked" on the bad guy's condition line, it appeared to parse it properly. Can I assume that if my friend's power were working right, Mark would have worked right?

8. I'm having a big problem with players who have NPCs targeted, but whose attack rolls don't list the target in the chat window and don't show HIT or MISS. Ditto their damage rolls. And sometimes it works for a while, then stops working, then starts working again, even though as far as we can tell, nothing's changed.

At one point, a player's targeting started working once he was adjacent to the NPC, but all his stuff was defined as ranged attacks, and I believe it kept working once he moved away. Targeting in general seemed highly volatile. Though it seemed to work for the NPCs.

9. How do Opportunity Attacks, Reactions, and Interrupts work? The rules set doesn't seem to like it when someone wants to do something not on their turn. I had to manually move the turn marker around to allow it, which impressed me as Not The Right Way To Do It.

10. I also had a problem with player's movement not showing. No white line with a little number on it. When testing before, it always worked as long as the character was dropped onto the map from the Combat Manager, but while I did that in our test run, it didn't seem to work.

That's it for now! Thanks in advance!

Fot5
November 28th, 2010, 20:23
1: Is there a way to scale an individual token? I had tokens of different sizes from different sources and it seemed like my only resource was to bring them into Photoshop and make them all the same scale.

2: Does anyone else have any problems getting maps to zoom in/zoom out properly? One of my players managed to get his map zoomed too far in and was unable to get it zoomed back out, and I find that I often have a problem with not being able to see the whole map, and being unable to zoom out to see it all.

3: There was an option in a context menu to attach a speaker to Box Text. But when I selected it, I got no prompt for which speaker I wanted to assign. How does this work?

4: I noticed when I prepped my adventure, I tested all my links and they worked. When I ran it, some of the links no longer worked and the map suddenly didn't load. I got what I looked like a blank parchment instead. Nothing had changed, other than I quit the program. Is this a bug?

5: This is a big one:

It appears as though the only way to get the Battle Map, which is to say an image with a grid on it, to understand the tactical presence of players and NPCs, is to drop them in from the Combat Manager. But this means, apart from the first encounter, there appears to be no way to set up an encounter beforehand, during prep. Place the bad guys on the map ahead of time. Because they're not in the Combat Manager yet.

But I feel certain it's possible to set up an encounter. What's the scoop?

6: I think I don't really understand the difference between an Effect and a Modifier. Someone Charged and I had Charge entered, perhaps improperly, as a modifier, but I couldn't figure out how to apply it to the NPC charging. If I set it up right, will the parser understand the Charge lasts only so long, or will I have to turn it on and off?

7. A player had a power that marked someone and I think he didn't enter it right, because it didn't do anything. But when I entered "Marked" on the bad guy's condition line, it appeared to parse it properly. Can I assume that if my friend's power were working right, Mark would have worked right?

8. I'm having a big problem with players who have NPCs targeted, but whose attack rolls don't list the target in the chat window and don't show HIT or MISS. Ditto their damage rolls. And sometimes it works for a while, then stops working, then starts working again, even though as far as we can tell, nothing's changed.

At one point, a player's targeting started working once he was adjacent to the NPC, but all his stuff was defined as ranged attacks, and I believe it kept working once he moved away. Targeting in general seemed highly volatile. Though it seemed to work for the NPCs.

9. How do Opportunity Attacks, Reactions, and Interrupts work? The rules set doesn't seem to like it when someone wants to do something not on their turn. I had to manually move the turn marker around to allow it, which impressed me as Not The Right Way To Do It.

10. I also had a problem with player's movement not showing. No white line with a little number on it. When testing before, it always worked as long as the character was dropped onto the map from the Combat Manager, but while I did that in our test run, it didn't seem to work.


1. The easiest thing to do is make sure that all of your tokens are of the same size. I scale everything to 72x72 pixels covering a 5'x5' square. If you really want to make life easy, make your maps to the same scale. However, if you need to scale individual tokens, then once you've dropped the creature or PC onto the map, scroll your mouse wheel over the icon for the creature or PC in the combat tracker. This will create a number that shows the magnification factor in the CT and will change the size of the individual token on the map.

2. You may need to scale down your map originals in size. You can change the size of the map frame by holding control and mouse dragging the corner of the map frame. You can change the magnification within the map by mouse wheeling inside of the map. If a player messes up and cannot get the image to return to normal size, I think that the GM can reshare the map, and it will return the player's map size to the same size as the GM's.

3. If you want to assign text to a GM-controlled PC, you can either click on the bubble icon on the creature's NPC entry or just type "/identity NAME" where NAME is the name you want to appear in the chat box. This will create an icon on the GM's desktop near the modifier box with that name on it. You'll need to make sure that the NPC's voice bubble icon is active for text to be attributed to that NPC.

4. Not sure about the problem of maps not showing. Did you save or export the adventure after you set it up (or was this a parsed adventure)?

5. No, to my knowledge, there is no way to put NPCs on a map ahead of time. However, it is easy to drop all PCs and NPCs onto a map once they are in the combat tracker. Just drag the green "friendy" face onto the map and all PC tokens will appear on the map. The same is for the red "hostile" face (with NPCs appearing on the map). Then you just need to place the tokens in the desired location.

6. I do not believe that CHARGE is something that FGII recognizes as an effect. Rather, you can either (a) create a +1 modifier in the effects pop-up menu that players apply when they charge or (b) create an effect that you drop onto PCs when they charge that simply reads "ATK: +1; charge". You can designate the end time of the effect or just turn it on and off as the GM.

7. The Marked effect is not acted upon by FGII. It is simply a label. I believe that it was set up this way because different classes have marks that work in different ways.

8. The only time I've had a problem with attacking and damaging not being recognized is when the PCs don't have the NPC targeted. First, I would make sure that all PCs use a different color of dice, so that you can tell whether multiple PCs have targeted the NPC. Second, I would check the CT prior to the PC making the roll. The CT should list which creatures the PC has targeted. Depending on how you've sent the options as a GM, it may be that, if the attack roll misses, then the NPC is no longer targeted (you can toggle this feature on or off).

9. I have not had problems with interrupts, but I typically move the CT flag to the individual who is interrupting (but not always) so that they know that they should make their interrupting action. By the way, special effects that apply only to opportunity attacks can be triggered by holding down SHIFT when rolling the attack die.

10. The distance marking will only work if you impose a grid on the map. Did you have the grid enabled?

mattcolville
November 28th, 2010, 20:58
RE: token size. Making sure all the tokens are the same size is a bit of a pain if you're just trying to drop something in on the fly. My players probably think they have something better to do than wait for me to open photoshop and resize an image. :D

On my end, scrolling the mouse wheel over a token rotates it. Doesn't scale it. Is there a key I should be holding down? I seem to remember the tutorial video showing the same rotation behavior.

Re: map zooming. The basic functions of resizing the window and scrolling to resize a map, I get. My problem is; they don't seem to work. I often get a map where I can scroll to zoom in, but cannot scroll to zoom out. My player reported that he could not zoom out once he zoomed in.

Re: Box text. I think I get how to just type into the chat frame and make it look like an NPC is talking, my question was specifically about Boxed Text. The "Read this to the player" text you get in an adventure. One of the options in formatting that text is "assign text to speaker." But I couldn't figure out how to make it work, when I selected that option, I got 0 feedback.

Re: Maps and links disappearing. I didn't export it, it wasn't parsed, it was just in the base campaign, which was saved. I'll try it again, see what happens.

Re: No preplacement of NPCs on Maps. Wow, that's a huge disappointment. That's something where I really expected an PC solution to save me some time during play.

RE: effect and modifiers. I understand that Charge is something FGII doesn't get, I guess my question is more general. What's the difference between effects and modifiers and how do I apply them to PCs and NPCs?

RE: Marked; are you saying FGII doesn't know what marked is, or only that it won't apply it as an effect like, say, poisoned? Because it appeared to treat it properly when I typed it in manually.

Re: Targeting. In all cases, the PC had the NPC targeted and it showed as much on the Combat Tracker. In spite of this, attacking that NPC didn't result in HIT or MISS text, or the NPC's name being showed in the roll, indicating who the PC was attacking.

Re: Acting out of turn. Are you saying the Tracker allows people to act out of turn normally? Because it seemed to do nothing when a character tried to attack when it wasn't his turn. I can test this.

RE: Distance tracking. Yeah the grid was turned on.

Fot5
November 28th, 2010, 22:33
Tokens: I was suggesting that you resize the tokens outside of game time. No, you don't want to do it during game time. You can create an action in Photoshop that would simplify the process of resizing your tokens. It sounds like you are talking about wheeling the mouse over the token in the map. You need to wheel over the icon of the NPC in the combat tracker to change size.

Zooming: Not sure why you're having the zooming problem. Do you have multiple monitors? Sometimes the control wheel doesn't work on any monitor other than the main monitor. I don't know if this could be the cause of your problems. You may want to send a note to someone in the healing forum if what I described does not solve the problem.

Box Text: You must be talking about a feature that I don't use, so I can't help. I preassign most of my framed text to NPCs in the parser and don't do this on the fly except when I create an "/identity VOICE", in which case, I just type the text that I want to send from that VOICE.

Preplacement of Tokens: I don't find this to be a problem unless I have a big battle with lots of minions, in which case, yes, it would be helpful to have preplacement.

Effects & Modifiers: I use the term effects to refer to labels that I attach to a PC or NPC in the combat tracker. Some of them are recognized by FGII and acted upon (e.g., Weakened) and some are not (i.e., they are just labels). I use the term modifiers to refer to numbers and associated labels that I drop into the modifier box at the bottom left of the FGII desktop. The modifier applies only to a single roll, and I then have to recreate it. An effect is something that sticks with the PC or NPC in the CT until it expires or I turn it off.

Marked: What I wrote the first time is wrong. Sorry about that. If you have a Marked effect on an NPC and that NPC attacks someone other than the person who applied the mark, FGII does automatically apply a -2 attack penalty, but it does not roll things like immediate interrupt actions for the marking PC or NPC.

Acting out of turn: Attacks made while acting on someone else's turn ought to work. It may be that this is an extension of the problem you were having with targeting? Anyway, the targeting issue is something that I'd try to problem solve because that's not how FGII works for me.

Moon Wizard
November 29th, 2010, 00:38
Some other comments to your Q&A so far:

1. Scaling individual tokens
Scaling individual tokens depends on your ruleset. Most rulesets support scaling of individual tokens my using the mouse wheel over the token field in the combat tracker. In the 4E ruleset, you can hold the CTRL key and mouse wheel over the token on the map.

2. Zooming
On zooming, there are a couple considerations...
2a. The size of the image window will limit the zooming out somewhat, in that once one of the dimensions is equal to the size of the window, it will no longer zoom.
2b. The zooming is controlled by the mouse wheel, or by holding the CTRL key while moving the scroller control. Also, there are known issues when clicking on FG from another app (instead Alt-Tab) and using on a second monitor.

3. Assign speaker
You can assign a speaker to text in a story entry in a couple ways. You can select the Assign Speaker option in the radial menu as you have done. However, I noticed that the graphics do not update right away which is a bug. Once they update, there is a space on the left side that you can click in, and then type text that will be used as the speaker. Also, you can simply hit the Tab key while in a chat frame section. The cursor will be automatically moved to the speaker area, and you can type in the speaker. I use this all the time in my games. Once you exit edit mode, you can then drag these chat frames onto the chat window to have the text spokn by the assigned speaker.

6. Effects vs. Modifiers
Effects are applied to a creature in the combat tracker, and only apply to that creature. Modifiers are applied to a user, and are applied to the next roll, regardless of what it is. I typically apply Charge as a modifier, since it's usually a one-off quick +1 that the attacker can apply. However, you could add it to the combatant as an "Charge; ATK: 1" effect with the "Apply Once" setting, so that you can apply as a GM to any combatant.

7. Marked effect.
FG is going to look for the "marked" or "mark the target" text in the description of the power. Once it finds this information, it will highlight when hovered over to allow dragging or double-clicking. Or, you can select "Reset power abilities" in the radial menu to have the effect created so it shows up in the Abilities section of the power and the character mini sheet.

8. Missing hit/miss rolls
The only thing I can think of that would cause targets to be missing is if the players are using the hot keys. The hot keys were designed to handle a single roll. I've added features with the last release to allow them to be used as "links" to specific characters and abilities, but rulesets have to be updated to use this feature.

9. Acting out of turn
Characters in my games make opportunity attacks regularly outside of their turn. Are they double-clicking on the power/weapon attack fields on the character sheet to make their rolls? As Fot5 mentioned, hold the SHIFT key to denote an opportunity attack, so that any opportunity attack effect bonuses are added.
With creatures, it varies slightly. Since the NPC sheet that is linked to the combat tracker entry is non-unique, when you choose a roll from an NPC sheet, it is not obvious which combatant is originating the attack unless it is a unique combatant or it is that creature's turn. To make attacks with a non-unique creature out of turn, click on the small sword icon to open up the quick attacks list, and roll from there.

10. Token path visibility
Token paths will only appear on a map if the grid is enabled and token locking is enabled. Then, when a player moves a token, a white line will appear showing the desired path. The GM can then middle-click or CTRL-left-click the token to accept the movement. Token paths are not needed if the players have full control over movement.

Regards,
JPG

Slipshod
November 29th, 2010, 06:05
8. Missing hit/miss rolls
The only thing I can think of that would cause targets to be missing is if the players are using the hot keys. The hot keys were designed to handle a single roll. I've added features with the last release to allow them to be used as "links" to specific characters and abilities, but rulesets have to be updated to use this feature.


I'm just starting out and had a similar problem, though not identical, problem in my playtesting today. None of the attacks from anyone were calculating hits or misses, ever. I think it's related to one of the extensions I had loaded, as it disappeared after I removed a few of them and reloaded the ruleset.

Do you have a bunch of extensions loaded? I went a little "happy" grabbing a bunch I had found, figuring I'd try them out and see what happens.

Cheers,
Slipshod

Moon Wizard
November 29th, 2010, 06:11
BTW, just wanted to thank you for taking the time to write up all your questions and feedback. It helps us make better decisions as we work on new versions.

Regards,
JPG

Slipshod
November 29th, 2010, 06:15
BTW, just wanted to thank you for taking the time to write up all your questions and feedback. It helps us make better decisions as we work on new versions.

Regards,
JPG

And thanks from me as well, as I'm just a week or so behind you and am learning an awful lot by just following along...

Fot5
November 29th, 2010, 13:59
Which ones do you have loaded? I'm using the following:

* 4e Fonts
* A homemade one that changes the default icons
* 4e Items
* 4e Language
* 4e Lore
* 4e Party Sheet
* 4e Personalities
* 4e Tables
* 4e Treasure Parcel

I have some recollection of having used one in the past that was subsumed under a 4e ruleset update that significantly improved the map tool, but I do not remember which one it was. I also recall trying to use that extension after the ruleset update and having all kinds of map trouble. Perhaps this is the problem you're having. Let me know which extensions you're using, and I'll tell you whether any of them ring a bell for me.

someoneinatree
November 30th, 2010, 01:02
Re: Zooming; players are unable to zoom images as far as I know. They can effectively zoom in just by increasing the size of the map, but if the map is too big they will probably not be able to increase beyond the size of the FG2 window. A GM can easily refocus and reshare in order to get players viewing the same area.

re: Box text on the fly; I use the "/story" command to prefix text when creating narrator style interjections. I use the shorthand "/id" command to generate new speakers for NPC voices.

re: Encounter set up; if you know which npcs will feature in an encounter, you can set it up as a complete encounter in the "Encounters" box on the right of the screen. You can also pre-set grids on your images. Then when the encounter comes up in game, you simply press the little down arrow from the pre-set encounter which populates the tracker, and then drag the little red "hostile" face from the bottom of the CT onto the map to populate the map. Moving them into position is then the only thing you have to do, usually only taking about 30 secs. This is a good reason to spend the time to resize tokens and maps before the game so that they are the same ratio (eg. each square is 50x50 pixel on a map, and each Medium token is 50x50 pixel etc), as it prevents the need for fussy token resizing using the scroll wheel during game time.

Re: Effects / Modifiers; the Campaign Modifiers box is the little [+/-] button in the top right of FG2. The GM creates and labels modifiers for the campaign that both s/he and their players can use before a roll. Applying the modifier is simply a matter of double clicking the numerical figure in the Campaign modifiers menu. When it has applied correctly, the modifier will appear in the modifiers box next to dice storage and will apply to the next roll and the next roll only.

For 4E, my campaign modifiers are commonly Charge (+1); Cover (-2); Superior Cover (-5); Combat Advantage/CA (+2); Favourable Circumstance (+2); Unfavourable Circumstance (-2).

You can of course type a modifier directly into the modifiers box next to the dice, but generally I only do this if it is an unusual or rare bonus/penalty.

re: Marked; I generally give "marked" effects on player's character sheets some descriptor text depending on the source of the mark. Eg. A Paladin's Divine Challenge I will set up as "Marked; Divine Challenge" so that we can easily distinguish between it and generic marks made by the Paladin in order to track the additional run on effects. Likewise "Marked; Aegis" for Swordmages. If you have multiple characters that mark it might be worth using their name in the mark so that player's can see who marked who eg. "Marked; [character name]".

Note the semi-colon is necessary for the 4E ruleset to functionally apply the Marked condition.

mattcolville
December 3rd, 2010, 18:11
Thanks to everyone for responding, especially Moon_Wizard.

It seems as though Locking Tokens solved the movement problem. The targeting problem seems to be fixed, along with HIT and MISS and I'm not sure what I did other than to lock tokens, so those issues may be related.

Going to try another test later today. It's been about a month since I bought this software, but I don't want to spring it on my group until I've had at least one successful practice session.

I think one of the big problems I've having is how jargony the software is. "Lock tokens." What does that mean? I mean, I know what it means, it means lock them to the grid. But "snap to grid" might be a better name, since it's more common.

Even better, it seems like tokens dragged from the combat manager should default to Snap to Grid, meaning things like tracking movement would be automatically enabled. There are lots of ways to get a token onto a map, but dragging a token from the Combat Manager to a grid-enabled map should be a clear indication that you, the GM, want that token to snap to grid.

As a feature request--and I realize this is a big one--the ability to take the PCs, the NPCS, the Map, the combatants positions on the map, and the Combat Tracker, and package them up into an Encounter would offload a lot of work from the table.

I want to be clear, it wouldn't *save* time, it would just move that time out of the actual play session. If I can create 5 encounters, so that when battle starts I just double click on a link and;

1: The combat manager appears, populated with all combatants.
2: The Map appears with everyone already placed

So that all I have to do is roll initiative and everything's set up, would be a huge coup in FGII's favor. Taking one of the most time-intensive elements of tabletop play ("Let me draw the map, ok, go ahead and set yourselves up...") and turning it into literally one click. My players at least, would go "Whoah."

Getting everything set up takes a minute or two and when that's a GM and five players, you just wasted 6-12 minutes of everyone's time. Doing that 4 or 5 times in an evening, that time adds up and one of the big benefits of this software is the manner in which it can save time and speed things up. I'd much rather do all that work during prep so battle can start with the click of a button.

Thanks again! I think we'll try another trial run today and see if we can get through an encounter.

Fot5
December 3rd, 2010, 18:49
I don't know whether you are already doing these things, but I've found that they speed up getting a combat going.

1) Make sure to click on the down arrow at the bottom of the encounter list. This automatically adds the NPCs to the combat tracker. I never remove the PCs from the combat tracker, so with a single click, all combatants are included in the CT.

2) Auto-roll initiatives. With a single click, all NPC and PC initiatives have been rolled and the CT resequences them according to the new rolls.

3) Have all tokens the same size so that you can adjust the size of one, lock its scale, and all other tokens will be scaled properly.

4) Drag PC and NPC tokens from the CT to the map using the red (hostile) and green (friendly) faces at the bottom of the CT. While the PCs are arranging their tokens on the map, I arrange the NPC tokens (still not visible).

5) Add the mask to the map by clicking on the tool icon at top left of the map.

This process typically takes me about 1-2 minutes, so very little game time is wasted. I can usually predict the next location the PCs will go, so I often set up the map and the CT (keeping the NPCs not visible so that the PCs don't know that they've been preloaded) as the PCs finish searching and planning in the previous encounter's location.

mattcolville
December 3rd, 2010, 18:57
I don't mind doing any of this, seems like normal prep time to me. But I don't see an *advantage* to being forced to do it during play. Better, it seems to me, to be free to prep several encounters ahead of time.

If I'm running an encounter from a published product, I want to have the PDF open with the encounter ready so I can make sure the traps and bad guys are placed where the module things they should be, so the Tactics advice works properly.

So that's me mucking around in FG2, doing things my players can't see, while they sit around. That's not a feature. Much better would be the ability to do this all out of combat for each encounter, and wrap them all up into one link. I click the link and ask players for initiative. That would be awesome, the players would love that.

leozelig
December 4th, 2010, 01:33
matt, I am with you - it would be nice to be able to populate maps ahead of time. It's more of a limitation for published adventures with pre-defined monster locations. There's always a little bit of an awkward delay as I refer back to the DM-only map a half dozen times while shifting monster tokens around. The time probably evens out with the automation of effects and the auto-calculation of attack and damage rolls, but nevertheless, you make a valid point.

Snap to grid (as i think of it) happens automatically for tokens after you set the grid on your map. 'Lock tokens' is sort of like that button you push when you're driving and you don't want your kids to put the windows down - it prevents the players from moving their tokens without DM approval. The white line shows where they are proposing to move. I usually leave them unlocked, but of course you lose the white line.

I use the d&d miniatures gallery like a lot of DMs to grab token images, but I size them using the mini base as a reference. The base is the only constant measurement (1" for medium) between images. I do some basic algebra to figure out how to resize my medium bases to, say, 64 pixels, and I make the overall image size a little bigger, say, 100 pixels. If it's a tall token and ends up bigger than 100 pixels (or whatever), it gets more complicated - not worth going into here. I do very little resizing of my tokens other than setting the size relative to the grid, which can be done in advance.

Anyway, hope that helps.

mattcolville
December 4th, 2010, 02:51
Is critical damage at all automated?

What's the procedure for making saving throws? Sometimes it seems like the player can roll his save at the end of his turn and it tracks everything properly, i.e. it removes the effect when successful. Sometimes it doesn't.

If I accidentally delete a PC from the Combat Tracker, it seems to really screw the tracker up, even if I add him again. Bad guys can't target him or do damage to him. It's weird. Is there something I can do to ameliorate this, apart from NOT deleting PCs from the tracker?

Slipshod
December 4th, 2010, 17:52
Hey, I get to help you for once! I've been following your posts for a couple of weeks since you've been well ahead of me in setting things up for your group.


Is critical damage at all automated?

Hold down shift while rolling damage, and it will treat it as a crit and max it. It also notes that it is a crit in the chat window.



What's the procedure for making saving throws? Sometimes it seems like the player can roll his save at the end of his turn and it tracks everything properly, i.e. it removes the effect when successful. Sometimes it doesn't.


If there is only one effect on a character, it will be resolved automatically. If there are multiple effects, they must be removed manually by the GM. I have no idea why (and think it's a silly limitation).



If I accidentally delete a PC from the Combat Tracker, it seems to really screw the tracker up, even if I add him again. Bad guys can't target him or do damage to him. It's weird. Is there something I can do to ameliorate this, apart from NOT deleting PCs from the tracker?

I haven't played a full session yet, so I haven't noticed this. I *HAVE* accidently deleted chars out of the CT before though, so I'll be especially careful going forward. Thanks for the heads up, and looking forwarding to seeing if anybody else has a workaround for the issue.

mattcolville
December 4th, 2010, 21:39
I'm genuinely happy that someone's getting some benefit from my posts and my questions.

Thanks for the answer on criticals, that makes sense. I figured there was an answer. :D

Does anyone know if the 4e Rules Set handles stuff like Brutal weapons, or High Crit Weapons? Will magic weapons roll extra dice when you shift-click for damage.

Griogre
December 4th, 2010, 23:26
The 4E Ruleset handles brutal and high crit weapons presuming the they have the right keywords (which they should if they are from parsed materials, if not you can always add them if you are making them by hand).

Holding shift works for implement crits too. Holding shift while double clicking a skill marks the skill roll as an assist as well. Holding shift while double clicking on a saving throw makes a death save.

mattcolville
December 5th, 2010, 01:17
I guess this should now be Questions Before My Third Game.

1: Where do skill challenges live? I mean before they're added to the tracker. For instance I have Dungeon Delve parsed, I can see the Skill Challenge I want right there. I can even add it to the tracker right now, thanks to the little arrow there. Totally works.

But how do I grab the Skill Challenge and store it in a module? It won't let me add it to any of the existing tabs, story, NPCs, etc....

2: The encounter builder allows me to enter the Level and XP of the encounter. Is there a way, when the encounter is over, to award that XP to the players?

Zeus
December 5th, 2010, 10:19
I guess this should now be Questions Before My Third Game.

1: Where do skill challenges live? I mean before they're added to the tracker. For instance I have Dungeon Delve parsed, I can see the Skill Challenge I want right there. I can even add it to the tracker right now, thanks to the little arrow there. Totally works.

But how do I grab the Skill Challenge and store it in a module? It won't let me add it to any of the existing tabs, story, NPCs, etc....

2: The encounter builder allows me to enter the Level and XP of the encounter. Is there a way, when the encounter is over, to award that XP to the players?

1. Skill Challenges are handled as reference material. Therefore you will need to use the 4E Parser to build the Skills Challenges into a module for use. Once entered, they are accessible from the Library under Skill Challenges. Each Skill Challenge from the Library will have a button at the bottom of its window, that if clicked and released will copy the Skill Challenge DCs to the SC Tracker window.

2.The next version of the 4E Partysheet extensions adds calendar/journal/log support and XP Tracker functionality. Encounter reference links can be dragged to the Partysheet XP Tracker window, where a new entry will be created summarising encounter level and XP. A button on the XP Tracker will then allow a DM to 'distribute XP evenly across the current Party' (similar to the way I handle distribution of coin treasure). The XP Tracker will maintain a log of encounters/quests and a history of the XP awards.

someoneinatree
December 5th, 2010, 13:49
If I accidentally delete a PC from the Combat Tracker, it seems to really screw the tracker up, even if I add him again. Bad guys can't target him or do damage to him. It's weird. Is there something I can do to ameliorate this, apart from NOT deleting PCs from the tracker?

This is because once they are deleted from the tracker and re-added, they are no longer linked to the token on the map that you are likely using for targeting.

So if you accidentally delete someone from the CT, you must also delete their token from the map, then once you place them back on the tracker, you must also drag their token from the tracker to the map again to make sure it is all linked up for functionality to work as expected.


Just as a side note... I imagine the sheer complexity of how the combat tracker interacts with maps is the only reason you cannot set-up multiple encounters for one-click map population and placement. The only way around this I imagine would be having multiple trackers that were linked to specific encounters. This still wouldn't work all that well, because the status of the PCs changes so dramatically from encounter to encounter that they would have to be loaded into a new tracker each time anyway.

You'll probably find that the various features of the software that allow you to do everything except map placement do save a lot of time as it is, and that really, the inconvenience of rearranging tokens on a map during the game really doesn't take very long at all. You should be able to get everything in place within a minute unless its a really massive encounter.

Additionally there is some stuff (like locking tokens/snap to grid) that some DMs want, but others don't. Therefore its probably best to keep it as an option that can be toggled at will so that DMs can manage their games however they feel works best.

someoneinatree
December 5th, 2010, 13:57
If there is only one effect on a character, it will be resolved automatically. If there are multiple effects, they must be removed manually by the GM. I have no idea why (and think it's a silly limitation).


Oh, and this is because under 4e rules you are meant to make separate saves for each effect and nominate which effect you are saving against before rolling. Since there are various sources that give bonuses to saves against certain types of effects, its usually easier to not have this kind of stuff automated.

So ideally, if I'm blinded and dazed, and I'm an Eladrin for example, I nominate that my first save will be for blinded... I roll it, make the save, so the DM manually removes the effect. Then I roll for my dazed, adding my +5 modifier since the dazed came from a charm effect. I make the save... and it comes off automatically since its the only "save ends" effect still on me.

Griogre
December 5th, 2010, 16:49
After the player makes a save, if you open up the effects tab on the character you can drag and drop the successful save from chat on top of the appropriate effect and it will end. Note: The effects listed on a character in chat (if you are showing them) are in reverse order from how they are listed on the combat tracker. My players have a tendency to roll all their saves in the order listed in chat. So it makes it easier to match the right saves once you know about reverse order. I'm not sure why it's done that way.

mattcolville
December 5th, 2010, 21:25
This is because once they are deleted from the tracker and re-added, they are no longer linked to the token on the map that you are likely using for targeting.

So if you accidentally delete someone from the CT, you must also delete their token from the map, then once you place them back on the tracker, you must also drag their token from the tracker to the map again to make sure it is all linked up for functionality to work as expected.

Ah-hah! Ahhh. Ahh...I feel this great wave of satisfaction rolling over me. :D Knowing it's just user-error is a great relief. Now there will be no problem! Thanks!


You'll probably find that the various features of the software that allow you to do everything except map placement do save a lot of time as it is, and that really, the inconvenience of rearranging tokens on a map during the game really doesn't take very long at all. You should be able to get everything in place within a minute unless its a really massive encounter.

Doesn't really matter how long it takes, does it? The point is; I've already set aside time to prep the adventure beforehand, I'm importing the map and building the encounter, I should be able to then place the dudes on the map. I have all the info right here, what's the benefit of saying "nope, you have to do it at the table while your friends wait, even though you're ready to do it now, and just set up *everything else*.

I understand that it's awful useful as-is. You're talking to a dude who dropped $150 on this software, so I obviously see the value in it. But I also feel like there are steps that could be taken to improve it. I make no judgment about how difficult those steps are, I'm not clamouring for anyone to fix this, I'm just making a suggestion. I trust the DevTeam to evaluate whether it's a good idea and how hard it would be.

I just make the suggestion that if the Map and Encounter and positions could all be bundled up into one thingy--absent the players--then it would save me even more time, be even more convenient, and impress my players even more. *click!* encounter is set up. That would prompt some "ooohs." And that sells units.


Additionally there is some stuff (like locking tokens/snap to grid) that some DMs want, but others don't. Therefore its probably best to keep it as an option that can be toggled at will so that DMs can manage their games however they feel works best.

Yeah I can see how locking tokens to the grid could be an acquired taste. I mean, there's no lock to grid in person! I can easily see how some of my players would like it, and some wouldn't care, wouldn't need it, and we could easily play without it.

mattcolville
December 5th, 2010, 21:27
After the player makes a save, if you open up the effects tab on the character you can drag and drop the successful save from chat on top of the appropriate effect and it will end. Note: The effects listed on a character in chat (if you are showing them) are in reverse order from how they are listed on the combat tracker. My players have a tendency to roll all their saves in the order listed in chat. So it makes it easier to match the right saves once you know about reverse order. I'm not sure why it's done that way.

That's cool, and interesting. But correct me if I'm wrong, do the players actually need to know what they're saving against? Can't they just click, save save save and it will roll and check against every effect? Does order matter?

mattcolville
December 5th, 2010, 21:32
1. Skill Challenges are handled as reference material. Therefore you will need to use the 4E Parser to build the Skills Challenges into a module for use. Once entered, they are accessible from the Library under Skill Challenges. Each Skill Challenge from the Library will have a button at the bottom of its window, that if clicked and released will copy the Skill Challenge DCs to the SC Tracker window.

I think I get it. I guess I'm just surprised that if I know I need this Monster ahead of time, I can grab him from the Library and drop him into the NPC tab. But if I know I need a Skill Challenge, there's nowhere to "put" that before play so I *don't* have to open up the Library during play.

Actually I figured it out. I can add a link to the Challenge in a Story Entry. Problem solved!


2.The next version of the 4E Partysheet extensions adds calendar/journal/log support and XP Tracker functionality. Encounter reference links can be dragged to the Partysheet XP Tracker window, where a new entry will be created summarising encounter level and XP. A button on the XP Tracker will then allow a DM to 'distribute XP evenly across the current Party' (similar to the way I handle distribution of coin treasure). The XP Tracker will maintain a log of encounters/quests and a history of the XP awards.


That sounds cool! I guess I should go check out the Partysheet!

mattcolville
December 5th, 2010, 21:33
The 4E Ruleset handles brutal and high crit weapons presuming the they have the right keywords (which they should if they are from parsed materials, if not you can always add them if you are making them by hand).

Holding shift works for implement crits too. Holding shift while double clicking a skill marks the skill roll as an assist as well. Holding shift while double clicking on a saving throw makes a death save.

Awesome. I love finding out there's an answer and it's easy.

Man this product needs like an in-game tutorial or something, holy crap.

Griogre
December 6th, 2010, 06:58
That's cool, and interesting. But correct me if I'm wrong, do the players actually need to know what they're saving against? Can't they just click, save save save and it will roll and check against every effect? Does order matter?
It's fairly common for characters to have bonuses on certain types of saves, ie Dwarves vs. poison get a +5. It's hard for them to get those type of things they don't know what they are saving vs. Plus, depending on how anal you players are the rules do say they get to choose the order of their saves. You also have things like the warden can only save vs. one effect at the start of his turn in the beginning, or things like the cleric giving someone a single save and the player gets to choose which effect he can try to save vs.

Moon Wizard
December 6th, 2010, 07:05
The sheer number of features came about as I keep adding capabilities that I wanted in my game. That's why I created the 4E manual in the Library section. It's not the best manual, but it contains a lot of details (like how modifier keys impact rolls, etc.).

Specifically, on the saving throw question:

* When a character has a single effect that a save can end, then rolling a saving throw has a clear meaning. When a character has multiple effects that a save can end, it is not clear which effect is being saved for when you roll. The ruleset could assume a particular order to apply saves in, but it would not be correct in many situations.

* There are many powers and abilities which grant additional saves vs. specific effects (see many warlord powers as well as martial resolve feat). In these cases, it would actually be incorrect to assume that any given save roll applies to any particular order.

* The GM can make save rolls for a CT entry by double-clicking on the save modifier field of an effect that a save can end.

* If the auto-save option is turned on for NPCs or for all combatants, saves will automatically be rolled at the end of those combatant turns. I originally built this feature just for NPCs, but my PCs ended up asking for it as well.

* I have a request on the 4E wish list that I added personally to allow players to make saving throws for effects which are on characters which they own directly off of the combat tracker. Of course, this requires totally changing the way effects are presented in the player combat tracker, which is not a simple change.

Cheers,
JPG

Nilaihah
December 29th, 2010, 11:03
* If the auto-save option is turned on for NPCs or for all combatants, saves will automatically be rolled at the end of those combatant turns. I originally built this feature just for NPCs, but my PCs ended up asking for it as well.

I was just thinking, would having automatic save rolls for PCs active while having Wardens in the party create issues?

I mean because Wardens should roll saves when their turn starts instead of when it ends. If they roll the save manually, I assume that FGII will roll it again at the end of the turn?

I don't have any Warden PCs right now, just giving myself a heads-up on this one as I love the auto-save roll feature.

Slipshod
December 31st, 2010, 21:45
I was just thinking, would having automatic save rolls for PCs active while having Wardens in the party create issues?

I mean because Wardens should roll saves when their turn starts instead of when it ends. If they roll the save manually, I assume that FGII will roll it again at the end of the turn?

I don't have any Warden PCs right now, just giving myself a heads-up on this one as I love the auto-save roll feature.


Thanks for pointing that out! I'm starting a game tomorrow with a Warden in it.

*EDIT* The Warden's save is a single, additional save at the beginning of their turn. They still get the normal save-at-end, so you just need to handle the extra save at the start of their turn manually.

Nilaihah
January 2nd, 2011, 17:59
Aha, excellent. So it is really a non-issue all around. Thanks for checking that out!

Griogre
January 4th, 2011, 19:53
There is one issue with saving throws in the 4E ruleset and you tend to see it happen with wardens more often only because of their extra save at the beginning of turns: Aftereffects.

These are more common at higher level but basically when the character blows a save - things get worse. The issue is that things are only suppose to get worse on a blown save at the end of the turn. The 4E ruleset currently doesn't differentiate between when a save is made. Thus in a case like this I just tell my guys to roll a "naked" d20 out in chat so the condition won't worsen't on a failed save.

Slipshod
January 4th, 2011, 20:08
There is one issue with saving throws in the 4E ruleset and you tend to see it happen with wardens more often only because of their extra save at the beginning of turns: Aftereffects.

These are more common at higher level but basically when the character blows a save - things get worse. The issue is that things are only suppose to get worse on a blown save at the end of the turn. The 4E ruleset currently doesn't differentiate between when a save is made. Thus in a case like this I just tell my guys to roll a "naked" d20 out in chat so the condition won't worsen't on a failed save.

Thanks much for the tip! I'll have to watch out for that.