Wizards announces the D&D Virtual Table

[Stitched]

Looks like they finally did it.

https://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/26286405/The_Dungeons__Dragons_Virtual_Table

[Sorontar]

That doesn't look 3D. How am I going to import my virtual miniature from the character visualization suite? ;)

[Stitched]

You don't. It was folly to expect a fully 3D application, with light sources/visibility, that also support networked multi-player, voice and text chat, and integration of all the source content.

I am glad, however, that they have incorporate the tilesets and will probably use the new tokens that ship with the Essentials line. They say they don't have integration with the source material but I guess they must have *some* future plan for it depending on how they handle content creation for modules (importing monsters with stats/tokens), character sheets from DDI, etc.

Maybe the planned "Neverwinter" will be the 3D version of all this. Will have to see how extensible it is when compared to it's namesake; "Neverwinter Nights"

[Sigurd]

May never match the quality of FG. Will likely never match the value.

[silvereagle72]

I am not impressed. They may have an edge in the resource library and re-loaded graphics though.

[unerwünscht]

I expected something better from HASBRO! Their VTT just reeks of fail.

[Sorontar]

I expected something better from HASBRO! Their VTT just reeks of fail.

Indeed, they have promised much and the one thing they did deliver successfully IMO (character builder) has just taken a pretty big downgrade whilst paying customers beta test their web based solution.

Nice to see the old CB has been fiddled with by enterprising folk so that you can enter custom data now. I'm currently updating it with all the Essentials feats as a test.

How secure is FG's use of a 4E ruleset? I seem to recall Smiteworks getting a full green light (due to it's bare bones nature, with regards to 4E details), but I'd hate things to get messy if WotC get greedy over their new VTT down the line, and and throw their toys out of the pram.

[Sigurd]

How secure is FG's use of a 4E ruleset? I seem to recall Smiteworks getting a full green light (due to it's bare bones nature, with regards to 4E details), but I'd hate things to get messy if WotC get greedy over their new VTT down the line, and and throw their toys out of the pram.

Ya know we can salute that flag forever or get on with playing. Smiteworks will figure out something. Personally I think WOTC would be hurting themselves to go after customers genuinely enthusiastic for their products. I buy, or bought, their books while they were making 3.x. Now I buy pathfinder.

I couldn't play without either company so thanks to each.

Sigurd

[Zeus]

I for one see this as a good move on Wizards part, even though at this moment I have no plans to move from FGII. Now Wizards have the makings of a VT I am sure over time once released they will add the integration with the online CB and future Monster Builder. It makes absolutely no sense not to.

The good news for existing FGII users is that it opens up another resource pool potentially, I am thinking in the first instance good quality digital 4E tokens and tilesets and later perhaps NPCs and other material.

For me the 3D aspect sounded nice but it would have detracted from the Role Playing element turning the game into more of a video game based RPG. The core features that attracted me to FGII was the table look, feel and immersion, oh and the 3d dice :)

[Stitched]

I guess we will have to wait and see how it turns out. If they can run all their game systems through it (Dark Sun, the planned Ravenloft, Gamma World), it's not a bad thing. Having the ability to drop in updates across the board (DDI, Compendium, and now this VTT), gives them a bit of an edge if you want to play a pure 4E game out of the box.

[Sigurd]

It might put them in the nasty situation of creating demand for games other than their game du jour.

They're on 4e now but does anyone doubt they'll move on when the market gets saturated? If they have a successful VTT will the support any game\every game?

This might either move them from the one edition model or create resistance to new editions. I doubt it will ever serve WOD or BRP or....

[Griogre]

Interesting, I was speculating with a friend last week that the going to online only with Character Builder/Adventure Tools might be a way to support something like this. I think they are finally trying to take baby steps in the development of their game table. I'm sure the intention is to integrate all the DDI stuff eventually.

By starting with a tile based 2D mapper they might even be able to get this to work. It looks a lot like d20Pro with map tiles right now.

[mattcolville]

It's a way for them to monetize both play, and their content. They can use their proprietary VT solution and charge you to play. Or charge you for the book containing the rules for your character. Or, perhaps best all around, just charge you for the rules for that character.

Time was, you wanted to play a monk? Had to drop $30 on a book that A: contained lots of stuff not related to playing a monk which B: you'd probably never use. They put out more content in 2 years than most people can use in a lifetime of play.

Why am I, the player, spending all that money? For a book you read. You don't play The Player's Handbook, you play a Warlord. I want to pay $3 for the Warlord plugin. There, just saved myself $27. And WotC got $3 directly, no retailer, no distributor.

I blogged about this. (https://www.squaremans.com/?p=222) It's something I hope WotC is thinking about, as it's a much healthier development model all around, for them and for us.

The tool itself looks like MapTools reskinned and indeed it may be. In some ways, that will be less appealing than Fantasy Grounds. But I just spent a week trying to get FG2 to work smoothly after dropping $150 on it and I still find it incredibly abstruse. And I'm a professional software developer. How hard for my players some of who are no more computer savvy than your mum?

I can see things in FG2 I like which I'm certain the VT will never do. But when it comes to 4E, the danger there isn't "does our tool have an advantage over theirs?"

The features of the tool don't matter. The value is in the Network. If you're the only FG2 user, you have no one to play with. If there are two of you, the tool just doubled in value for you.

FG2 may be in all ways better than the WotC solution, it may not matter. Because the WotC solution will become the default, even if it's buggy. Because it's the one they make and they support and everyone who buys their products will know about it.

[Stitched]

Yup. If you want really "abstruse", try creating a ruleset from scratch.



The tool itself looks like MapTools reskinned and indeed it may be. In some ways, that will be less appealing than Fantasy Grounds. But I just spent a week trying to get FG2 to work smoothly after dropping $150 on it and I still find it incredibly abstruse. And I'm a professional software developer. How hard for my players some of who are no more computer savvy than your mum?

I can see things in FG2 I like which I'm certain the VT will never do. But when it comes to 4E, the danger there isn't "does our tool have an advantage over theirs?"

The features of the tool don't matter. The value is in the Network. If you're the only FG2 user, you have no one to play with. If there are two of you, the tool just doubled in value for you.

FG2 may be in all ways better than the WotC solution, it may not matter. Because the WotC solution will become the default, even if it's buggy. Because it's the one they make and they support and everyone who buys their products will know about it.

[Moon Wizard]

I actually welcome the entrance of their tabletop into the market. They are actually increasing the demand for VTs as a whole. A lot of their impact will hinge on how much they are going to separately charge for the VT, and whether they can deliver.

My guess is that they will charge a separate subscription fee, which will actually drive people to look at other VT options more.

Also, I'm hoping that we can do a lot the great things we would like to do, and make it an easy choice for people to switch.

Cheers,
JPG

[Griogre]

I agree the aborted Game Table was very good for all other VTT's because it educated the D&D market such things could (and did) exist which increased the audience for VTT software in general.

[mr_h]

Saw this preview (https://dreadgazebo.net/video-in-depth-overview-of-the-dd-virtual-table-beta/) linked in an ENWorld email this morning. Not sure what to think of it yet (looks like it might be java based which would be nice to run under any OS).

[Doswelk]

Not having played FGII D&D 4e (which might be just as bad), this looks very cumbersome and complicated...

<wanders off to play Savage Worlds happy that's easier!>

[Sorcerer]

it seems to be totally web browser based which I guess means everything is happening on their server, which I guess in turn means monthly subscriptions.

On the plus the guy says that, under system, all editions back to 1st were listed, which might be something for old timers like me...

[Acroyear]

I'm in the beta, no rules and basic automation. Helluva ways to go compared to this fine product, FGII.

But they have the 3D version of their VTT they could hopefully bring to market that WotC showed at Gen Con 2009. Virtual minis and all.

And I'm still wondering why no one has a built VTT interface to play 3.x utilizing the NWN engine. Licensing issues aside. :)

[Acroyear]

Also I would just like to playback some epic fights in 3D. :)

[Doswelk]

And I'm still wondering why no one has a built VTT interface to play 3.x utilizing the NWN engine. Licensing issues aside. :)

3D would greatly increase the time taken to build maps, at least with FGII I can just find a pre-drawn map on the web.

[Stitched]

Or you would end up with something like the Neverwinter Nights map maker (prebuilt objects, modding community, etc.)

I don't know details about it but maybe that new title "Neverwinter" is going to have an editor as well?


3D would greatly increase the time taken to build maps, at least with FGII I can just find a pre-drawn map on the web.

[Zeus]

Well I wasn't expecting to get in but I just received an invitation to the D&D Virtual Table Beta for Friends & Family from Wizards. :bandit:

I haven't had a chance to take it for a spin yet as I am awaiting my account to be activated but I am curious if anyone else from the FG community is participating? if so, please PM me and perhaps we can setup a quick game.

DrZ.

[TheMetal1]

I'm thinking the "Neverwinter" MMO is the direction they ultimately want to go, with subscribers being given the chance to create their own adventures or dungeons. Kind of along the lines of what they did with City of Heroes/City of Villians MMO. The thing is Dungeons & Dragons Online: Eberron Unlimited is IMHO a great MMO, but it is still 3.X, not exactly true to it, but does a great job. Neverwinter will allow a full court press into showcasing the 4E ruleset in the virtual world. So I'm a bit perplexed at the VTT they are doing. I mean, hey its out there, but perhaps they are simply just looking at different markets and good on them for trying. But I'm happy with FGII.

[Hye Roler]

Well I wasn't expecting to get in but I just received an invitation to the D&D Virtual Table Beta for Friends & Family from Wizards. :bandit:

I haven't had a chance to take it for a spin yet as I am awaiting my account to be activated but I am curious if anyone else from the FG community is participating? if so, please PM me and perhaps we can setup a quick game.

DrZ.
DrZ - I am part of the Beta and have tinkered with the tool a bit so far. I've found it to be a first step but definitely couldn't replace my use of FGII. The lack of automation is the issue for me. I also feel that the story boxes are an afterthought having relegated them to "notes" pages. On the flip side, I like the integrated tiles function.

So, anyway... I'll be interested to see how the actual product turns out. I have to agree with the poster about Neverwinter being their substitute for the 3D fully automated D&D experience. Honestly I am very excited about that and hope the Neverwinter mod community takes to it like they've done NWN 1&2.

Hye Roler

[Doc_Waldo]

I also am in the beta testing group and tried it out; however, it is so early in the stage that it really doesn't compare to much. As someone else mentioned it is really similar to maptools. The area I was really hoping for was the integration part. With modes for 4e and the ability to scrape books, using FGII for characters and the combat tracker, along with many of the extensions (Zeuss and I forget the other guy who created the lore one), it allows for very good integration...which at this point is lacking with the wotc vt. Thus after spending several hours playing around, I haven't checked back because again it felt like a dressed up version of maptools.

I do hope it will continue to push FGII to work on the programs mapping capabilities, which at this point, I see as a weakness compared to other vt's.

[Zeus]

Thanks guys.

I too have only just played around with the tool for a short while. It seems a step in the right direction but I agree there is a long way to go before its in a strong position to threaten FGII.

I too like the integrated tiles and mapping features, having said that it would not take that much effort to deliver something similar in FGII.We already have a prototype for multi-layer maps with adapted token support for map tiles. The recent addition of the toolbar for images also paves the way for enhanced drawing/masking capabilities in the future too.

The lack of automation whilst enabling a rules agnostic engine for Wizards, drives too much effort for the DM and players to get a game going at the moment. I used a pre-built adventure which contains a selection of pre-generated NPCs but it still took forever to key in all my Story, PC and misc. data. Here's hoping they build in some import/export capabilities between the all the new online tools.

I do like the integrated voice changer for the built in VoIP functionality though, I hope this is expanded upon in the future to include more archetype voices.

[Answulf]

What's the connection with GameTable Online, anyone know?

[Hye Roler]

GameTable Online is the platform they used to develop the D&D VT. It is something they've used before for other IP Wizards owns. i.e. Axis and Allies.