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DualQuad
September 5th, 2010, 17:12
After a week's delay my group and I finally got together to give the Ulitmate software a try as a "Dm's helper".

The hoped for setup, 1 laptop running as server, 1 laptop driving the TV in the room that players would share as single resource. Some characters were fully fleshed out, other were place holder types. Players were to provide rolls and feedback to DM who would manually update the adventure.

What was running:
Dm laptop on Xp running FG2 ultimate 2.7.1
Player Laptop on Vista running FG2 as ultimate client

What happened (Issues):
1) With client connected to server, DM tried to update player token in player sheet while client was connected. Result: crash of client (unresponsive) window indicating upload going on found after client went away
2) After crash (1), client would attempt to reconnect. Available player list would not populate upon restart of software. Hitting "X" on character selection would cause client to "go black" and not recover.
3) Connecting with client running on same machine as server - client would not immediately populate available characters but hitting "X" and then selecting character button would work as expected.
4) Running in Client/Server combination, software would become non-responsive after an erratic amount of time, sometimes 5 minutes, sometimes 15
5) Running in client server mode, player tokens not always visible. This was weird, I would open combat tracker, drag characters into tracker, drag shown icon from tracker onto map. There were times where only the "green box" where a character would be was visible on the client map, no token. All visibility settings were on. This was fixed once by shutting down both server and client and restarting both client and server, but then things became unresponsive (4)

My hobbled together solution:
1) Run just DM client and span window across both laptop and TV. On the TV side put the map and whatever players should be able to view. On the laptop keep the combat tracker and DM-only stuff


What could work better:
1) Initial Client startup -- I don't get this, it seems like network performance is really poor. Players were wondering if software was working, we were sitting on a LAN. We had folks ask, "Is the bar moving?"

2) Moving data between machines. I developed the DM stuff on my desktop and moved it to the laptop for the gameday. Being a newbie, I asked for suggestions and probably screwed this up. I copied the campaign directory, and tokens, but forgot about the "modules/scraped/parsed" stuff. Perhaps a real module export gets around that?

What was awesome:
1) As a DM, I finally felt somewhat organized and ready. I was able to put in good data, descriptions, and easily track 15 combatants. I have been DMing for years and really hadn't moved out of the 80's, lots of books, lots of notes. I really didnt want to drag a laptop in addition to 80 lbs of books. With FG2, and the scrapes, I went an entire session without consulting a single hard cover book. I had finally collected all the data I required in one easy to navigate spot.
2) Players liked the ability to share pictures. I had scanned several pics from monster manuals, etc and provided them as "here's the description, here's the picture"
3) The maps worked very, very well. Even running on just a single machine and having display across two monitors, we had no issues seeing terrain issues and describing movements
4) Treasure drops, really nice to provide everything in one easy to see spot without having to figure out where it is in the book, pass it around to the player who inevitably forgot their book for this session.
5) Using just DM client, client was rock solid for 8 hours of continuous use.
6) Maps are easy to produce with campaign cartographer for import. Yeah, things like dynamic fog of war and auto visibility stuff may be real cool, but I can whip out a functional(though ugly) map in just a few minutes and my group had a much fun as they always have using a vinyl battlemap.
7) Xorn - The videos made by Xorn were absolutely terrific in getting us moving in the right direction. Thanks so much Xorn.
8) Tenian - The scrapers and parsers really, really reduce setup time as a DM. Thanks Tenian


I am hoping that the client-server issues we encountered were dopey newbie scewups, using an out of date (beta) load or just something that can be worked around. If we can actually get this working smoother, this will be the perfect product for my needs.

Any help is appreciated.

DQ

Moon Wizard
September 5th, 2010, 18:16
DualQuad,

I'm not sure why you were having the issues with the client. The typical gaming group uses 4-5 clients connected to a host, so I would expect others to see as well.

Let me ask some questions to see what we can discover about your situation:

1.
* When you say update token, are you talking about the character sheet token field on the front page, or the combat tracker token?
* Was the token update done while the client was connecting, or after the character selection screen had appeared?
* Was the token from a module, or from a directory? Which module or directory?

2-5. This sounds like something was interfering with the communications.
* Check for multiple FG processes on the host using Task Manager. And vice versa on the client.
* How many tokens (number and total MB) do you have in tokens/shared directory?
* How big are your map files?
* How many modules are open on host? How many are force loaded?

If you have a chance, you can zip up your campaign directory and send it to me at jgregory at smiteworks dot com.

Thanks,
JPG

John Winkeler
September 5th, 2010, 22:28
The crashing/instability was unnerving. I had run the combo client/server on my desktop for several days prior. During this period, I did all of the usual game stuff, opening images, sending/revealing maps, rolling attacks/damage. Trying to simulate what I would be up against.

What I hadn't really tried was connecting from a secondary machine for long periods. I had connected as a second machine once to verify that I had opened and forwarded the proper ports through my cascaded routers and then quit after proving to myself that it worked.

The laptop used as a server isnt the fastest machine in the world, but it is way past recommended specs, 1.8Ghz, 2GB ram, but it is a mere shadow of the desktop where I was doing my tests. Performance was somewhat sluggish, but I attributed that to driving the second display, perhaps there were additional FG instances running. I never checked the process viewer.


1. Token updating --
I had created several placeholder characters to give the software a go. I created blank character sheets, assigned names and portraits.
The client connected to the server.
Server opened combat tracker and moved characters into it. At this point, I noticed that a character did not have a token associated with it. I then opened the token bag and character sheet, dragged a token from bag into sheet.
-- I have tried to reproduce this a couple ways by dragging figure to tracker instead of sheet, and haven't been able to get it to go haywire on my home machine today. But then again, the home machine seemed super stable previously anyway.

Token update was done after character sheet appeared on client side (I think, it is hard to recall exact situation)

Tokens came from tokens/host/some_directory


2. I have no tokens in shared directories
Map sizes are around 500k
No modules were open. I had actually forgotten to transfer the modules when I copied the directory, which was a bummer but the NPCs had been fleshed out fairly well with attacks types and various dice. Other than just demonstration activity, players are still based on paper, full migration to software hasn't occurred yet so there was no pressing need to "open" any of the stuff on the character sheets.


Even with the initial pains, one player wanted to connect up to the server software to do more testing and flesh out his character. Another player offered a used but better performing laptop to use as a "traveling" server. Though we had issues, nothing really sucked. I just want to get this the last 20% of the way for the upcoming campaign that I am planning. This software should make my job quite a bit easier.

Zipped campaign file (4 encounters) is on the way to your box.

John aka DQ

Moon Wizard
September 7th, 2010, 21:03
It looks like there are quite a few tokens you are using that are from token modules. (Disposable Heroes: Fantasy 4E, Iron Heroes Counter Collection, Counter Collection 4E - Heroic 1) I'm guessing that these might be impacting the situation somehow.

I'm installing these on my machine, plus your campaign to see what I can uncover.

Thanks,
JPG

Moon Wizard
September 9th, 2010, 07:44
I found some interesting issues regarding modules with special characters (colons), and crash potential on clients with failed file transfers (i.e. images, tokens, etc.) The issue is primarily apparent when the modules are only installed on the host, but not the client. This should not matter.

I have updated the version in the Dev slot of testing with the latest v2.7.2 development release which has a patch for this issue. See the Laboratory forum for more information on v2.7.2 and using the development version. I believe that this addresses the issue, but I want to be sure in case I'm wrong.

Please give it a try, and let me know.

Thanks,
JPG