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Tenian
August 29th, 2010, 00:20
You can find out more details here (http://dnd-4e.blogspot.com/2010/08/4e-lore-extension.html)

The short version, the extension when combined with modules created with the 4.0.103 parser allows you to use the /lore command to automatically deliver the lore data to your players.

DNH
September 25th, 2010, 10:36
Has anyone managed to get this to work? I have been having problems with it, as posted on Tenian's blog post.

Griogre
September 27th, 2010, 21:53
He may have written it for another version of FG than what you are using. I haven't used it but I know someone who has.

Fot5
September 28th, 2010, 16:09
I have parsed with v. 103, and I'm using FG II v. 2.7.1. I have checked the XML, and the lore data has been parsed. When I type "/lore" when there are visible npcs in the CT, I only get a message "Delivering Lore" on both the host and client views.

EDIT: I have Windows 7, so I'm wondering if anybody who it is working for is using that OS.

AnAxeToGrind
September 29th, 2010, 04:05
The Lore Extension is awesome.

I am positive that the lore data must exist in the module and the Client must have the prerequisite skills to view the lore in question. It works for me but I have only used it on one module during one session built via the parser.

adminwheel3
October 12th, 2010, 02:36
Looks like I'm having the same problem as several other people. Any help at all would be appreciated.

I type /lore as the host. I get a Delivering Lore message on both the host and client screens (joined as localhost) and no information.

I am running 2.7.1.
I have a module (db.xml) which hosts only my npcs.
I opened the combat tracker, opened the library, dragged the npc from the library to the tracker and then from the tracker onto the map.
I made the NPC visible on the tracker.
I gave the PC 25 skill religion, arcana, etc.

I checked the module which has the npc information and the following is present:

<text type="formattedtext"><h>Flavor</h><p>Waerg are smelly and unpleasant. </p><h>Lore</h><p><p> A character knows the following with a successful Religion check.</p><p><b>DC 15:</b></p><p><frame> These are very nasty</frame></p><p><b>DC 20:</b></p><p><frame> You don't want to mess with them</frame></p><p><b>DC 25:</b></p><p><frame> I mean it.</frame></p></p></text>
<token type="token">tokens/Nexus Fights/frenzied [email protected] Fights</token>
<lore>
<id-00000>
<dc type="number">15</dc>
<text type="string">These are very nasty</text>
<skills>
<id-00000>
<skill type="string">Religion</skill>
</id-00000>
</skills>
</id-00000>
<id-00001>
<dc type="number">20</dc>
<text type="string">You don't want to mess with them</text>
<skills>
<id-00000>
<skill type="string">Religion</skill>
</id-00000>
</skills>
</id-00001>
<id-00002>
<dc type="number">25</dc>
<text type="string">I mean it.</text>
<skills>
<id-00000>
<skill type="string">Religion</skill>
</id-00000>
</skills>
</id-00002>
</lore>

DNH
October 19th, 2010, 10:40
Just tried this again with a newly-parsed adventure module (parser version 4.0.103.0) AND the newly-released version 2.7.2 of the 4e ruleset but still no joy with getting it to work. All I get is a "Delivering Lore ..." message but no lore entries actually appear on the player's chat window.

I have checked the parsed module's db.xml to make sure all the appropriate bits are there, and it all looks correct to me. Here is a sample from one of the monsters.

<text type="formattedtext"><h>Lore</h><p><p></p><p><b>Nature DC 15:</b></p><p><frame> Bog Toad, medium natural beast.</frame></p><p><b>Nature DC 20:</b></p><p><frame> Bog toads attack by biting but also use a grasping tongue to pin their enemies down. They are also prodigiously good at jumping.</frame></p></p></text>
<token type="token">tokens/Return to the Moathouse/bog [email protected] to the Moathouse</token>
<lore>
<id-00000>
<dc type="number">15</dc>
<text type="string">Bog Toad, medium natural beast.</text>
<skills>
<id-00000>
<skill type="string">Nature</skill>
</id-00000>
</skills>
</id-00000>
<id-00001>
<dc type="number">20</dc>
<text type="string">Bog toads attack by biting but also use a grasping tongue to pin their enemies down. They are also prodigiously good at jumping.</text>
<skills>
<id-00000>
<skill type="string">Nature</skill>
</id-00000>
</skills>
</id-00001>
</lore>

There must be something I am doing wrong but I can't figure out what it is. Does anyone (Tenian?) have any ideas? My only thought is that I am creating these modules directly with the parser and *not* through the Adventure Workshop tool. Could that be it?

Blue Haven
October 19th, 2010, 15:21
Errr...first of all can anyone explain me how this works or should work please...?
Thanks

Fot5
October 19th, 2010, 15:51
See here: http://dnd-4e.blogspot.com/2010/08/4e-lore-extension.html. It's supposed to take data that is parsed in a module relating to monster knowledge (lore), determine which PCs would know that information based on passive checks, and then distribute it to the appropriate PCs.

Blue Haven
October 19th, 2010, 21:56
Holy crap!! really?? but i mean how it work? like you have to write /lore only?? and then what...? sorry friend i&#180;m confused...

EugeneZ
October 20th, 2010, 00:54
Holy crap!! really?? but i mean how it work? like you have to write /lore only?? and then what...? sorry friend im confused...

Do you, like, hate reading? It's right there in the article Fot5 linked. :)



Usage:

/lore = Displays lore data for all npcs in the tracker that are set as visible

/lore {name} = Displays lore for just the npc in the tracker who's name begins with {name}.
For example:
"/lore Goblin" would display lore for any npcs on tracker with names that begin with goblin (Goblin Hexer, Goblin Blackblade, Goblin Sharpshooter, etc)

Blue Haven
October 20th, 2010, 10:34
Duh!! sorry friend...

DNH
October 20th, 2010, 10:49
Still not working for me though. :(

Zeus
October 20th, 2010, 19:58
Some pointers.

- The lore output clients see via the chatpad depends upon the knowledge skill bonus the PC(s) have. This means if a PC doesn't have such skills/bonuses in the right Knowledge Skill they will not see any lore output.

- You need to ensure you have re-parsed your NPC based modules using the v4.0.103 release of the Parser or higher. Modules parsed with a version prior to v4.0.103 will not contain the required module data nodes the extension requires in order to output individual text (original lore text for NPCs were entered as a formattedtextfield making access to the individual text parts impossible).

- After re-parsing the NPC modules, ensure you delete any pre-existing NPCs from the Combat Tracker and re-add them (very important) before making use of the extension. This will ensure the version of the NPC in the CT is the latest version and avoids possible stale data from causing problems.

DNH
October 21st, 2010, 10:03
Thanks for the pointers, Doc.

- I started afresh with a new test campaign, so I had created a new character specifically with skill bonuses in mind. He has (artificially-inflated) modifiers of +5 to Arcana, +20 to Nature and +0 to Religion. So with DCs of 15/20/25, he should see nothing about undead (Religion), just the basics about fey (Arcana) but everything about goblins (Nature).

- I re-parsed the adventure module using parser version 4.0.103.0. I posted the resulting code on page one of this thread and it clearly contains all the right nodes (ie both the formattedtext version of the lore entries and the individual entries for each aspect).

- As mentioned above, I started with a fresh test campaign, so there were no NPCs on the Combat Tracker to start with.

I shall keep plugging away at this for a while longer. I am a big fan of monster knowledge checks and this extension makes using them a doddle, so I shall be very disappointed if I fail to get it running properly.

Zeus
October 21st, 2010, 14:49
Hmm, now its not working for me either! Although it did work back in v2.6.5, maybe something changed in v2.7.2 which has broken it. I've dropped Tenian a quick note.

adminwheel3
October 22nd, 2010, 02:23
Sadly it brings me comfort knowing it doesn't work for you either, as you're are wise in the ways of these kinds of things.

Plus you like to help people troubleshoot issues, so I look forward to finding out how you fixed it.

DNH
November 3rd, 2010, 17:53
Not given this a spin since it last failed to do anything for me but I would dearly love to have it working for when I resume DM duties in the new year. I would need to do some prep work on my adventure modules before then, so any news on what the problem is, or what a solution might be?

Thanks.

adminwheel3
November 3rd, 2010, 21:26
Not given this a spin since it last failed to do anything for me but I would dearly love to have it working for when I resume DM duties in the new year. I would need to do some prep work on my adventure modules before then, so any news on what the problem is, or what a solution might be?

Thanks.

DrZeuss will save us! He saves everyone!

Tenian
November 6th, 2010, 19:27
There's a new version here (http://tenian.eugenez.net/Extensions/4E%20Lore.ext)

It was designed to work with the 115 parser (also now available) and adds the ability to push images along with text to your players.

The commands have changed:
/ilore = sends just image data. No skill checks.
/tlore = sends just the text data. Skill checks are applied (this is the old /lore command)
/lore = combines /ilore and /tlore. Sending images to everyone and text to those who meet the skill checks.

All three commands support an optional npc name just as /lore did in the old version.

Fot5
November 6th, 2010, 22:31
Thanks, Tenian. I downloaded the extension, downloaded the Microsoft update you mentioned, installed the 115 parser, and reparsed a module. I then opened an FG session and added a PC and an NPC to the CT. I then opened the PC via localhost. I upped the PC to level 30 and trained all skills. Then I typed "/lore" from the GM window. The pictures popped up on both the GM side and the PC side, but both sides still only read "delivering lore" with no lore text delivered.

Tenian
November 6th, 2010, 23:52
Was the NPC set as visible as well? Or did you use /lore {npc name}
(i.e. /lore Goblin Sharpshooter)

Fot5
November 7th, 2010, 20:19
Thanks again, Tenian. Yes, the NPCs were visible. I should have mentioned that. However, ...

Ah ha! I discovered the problem (at least the problem with my files), and I hope that the solution is this simple for everyone else. I checked the db.xml file and found <lore> nodes. I assumed that that meant that all of my NPCs were being parsed with lore data. I was wrong. In fact, there were only three NPCs in my fluff file that actually parsed with lore data. And guess what ... those weren't the ones that I was trying to report lore data for when I tested the extension. When I tested the extension on the ones that did parse lore data, the extension worked fine.

So, I became curious about why those particular NPCs parsed and the others did not, and I noticed that they were the only ones in my fluff file that had multiple skills associated with knowledge checks (e.g., tangler beetles have both nature and arcana knowledge lore). For these NPCs, I used the following format for the lore data:

Nature DC 15: Text

For all other NPCs I used the following format:

DC 15: Text

When I changed all lore entries to match the first example, all lore data was parsed, and the lore extension worked as intended. So, if you're having trouble with the lore extension, try changing all of your lore data to have the following format:

SKILL DC XX: LORE DATA

where SKILL is the name of the knowledge skill relevant to the data, XX is the DC of the knowledge, and LORE DATA is the information that you want reported to the PC. Be sure to (a) reparse with parser 115, (b) enter the NPCs into the CT after reparsing, and (c) make the NPCs visible. If you do these things, and the PC has an appropriate level of passive knowledge, I think that the lore parser will work.

This is a great contribution, Tenian. Thanks for your work!

Tenian
November 7th, 2010, 20:28
This format should work as well....at least it appears to for me:

A character knows the following information with a successful Dungeoneering check.
DC 20: Aboleths lair in foo foo foo
DC 25: Aboleths communicate via bar bar bar
DC 30: Sometimes aboleths barfoo foobar

The resulting entries in the DB.xml appear as:



<lore>
<id-00000>
<dc type="number">20</dc>
<text type="string">Aboleths lair in foo foo foo</text>
<skills>
<id-00000>
<skill type="string">Dungeoneering</skill>
</id-00000>
</skills>
</id-00000>
<id-00001>
<dc type="number">25</dc>
<text type="string">Aboleths communicate via bar bar bar</text>
<skills>
<id-00000>
<skill type="string">Dungeoneering</skill>
</id-00000>
</skills>
</id-00001>
<id-00002>
<dc type="number">30</dc>
<text type="string">Sometimes aboleths barfoo foobar</text>
<skills>
<id-00000>
<skill type="string">Dungeoneering</skill>
</id-00000>
</skills>
</id-00002>
</lore>


It should generate the <skills> subnode and have an entry for each skill

Fot5
November 7th, 2010, 20:41
That approach didn't work for me, but I bolded each skill name (e.g., "with a successful <b>Nature</b> skill check."). Perhaps that was the cause of my problem. Regardless, it is working now, and I am thrilled. Thanks again.

Tenian
November 7th, 2010, 22:44
Yes it would not like the bold tags. I recommend removing them, as that's probably less work than going through all the MMs and manually adding the skills

DNH
November 8th, 2010, 14:51
Got it working now! Thanks very much for this. As I have said previously, I am quite the fan of monster lore and this makes things so much simpler. Good work.

adminwheel3
November 15th, 2010, 00:48
Not sure what changed on the backend, but previously parsed NPCs that were parsed with the new release and using the new extention are delivering lore as expected. Thank you!

mattcolville
November 25th, 2010, 20:23
I parsed the MM with the 118 parser, but unless the overwhelming majority of NPCs therein have no lore, the lore isn't parsing for me.

Just opened the XML and searched for "lore" and returned nothing.

Is there a "parse lore" option in the parser? Possibly a silly question, as I could just open the parser right now and look, but I just thought of it.

Fot5
November 25th, 2010, 22:04
Unfortunately, the compendium does not output lore data, so you have to input that into the fluff files yourself. The easiest way to do that is to create an OCR scan of the text of the books that you own and cut and paste that information into the fluff files created by a parser scrape. If you want to see what the entries for files might look like, send me a PM.

mattcolville
November 25th, 2010, 23:35
Unfortunately, the compendium does not output lore data, so you have to input that into the fluff files yourself. The easiest way to do that is to create an OCR scan of the text of the books that you own and cut and paste that information into the fluff files created by a parser scrape. If you want to see what the entries for files might look like, send me a PM.

Wow, you're right. I should have realized that, given how much I've used the Compendium.

Ah well, I like the functionality of the /lore command, but if we're talking about those NPCs with Lore Data that I've entered personally, probably just as easy to manually manage all the rolls.

Fot5
November 26th, 2010, 00:59
The amount of work may be more different between the two methods than you think. It would be easy to manage the knowledge checks with DrZeuss' party extension, but once you do that, you'd need to type in the relevant information to share with each PC who makes the knowledge check anyway, and you may need to reveal different knowledge to each PC. So, if you're going to type it in anyway (i.e., during the game), then my thinking is why not just type it in once (into the fluff file) so that you can automatically distribute it to the relevant PCs with a single "/lore" command (and potentially save a lot of game time)? Of course, it would be a lot of potentially unnecessary work to do this with an entire monster manual, but very little of the effort would be wasted if you were doing it to the fluff files for an adventure in which you know which creatures will be in each encounter the PCs have. Anyway, I was lucky to have bought the MM as a PDF before WOTC decided to pull the plug on PDF sales, so I was able to simply cut-and-paste the relevant information for tactics and lore for each creature. Since then, I've just pulled the tactics and lore from scans of my books for anything that I use in an adventure out of other source books.

Fot5
December 21st, 2010, 19:00
The problem that I experienced previously with the lore extension has appeared again. Specifically, when I invoke the extension, it shares pictures but no lore text. I double checked, and the modules that I'm trying to share contain lore data and I've made the NPCs visible in the CT. I recently updated FGII, and am wondering whether anyone else who has updated to the most recent version of FGII is having the same problem that I am with the lore extension.

Zeus
June 19th, 2012, 21:49
Hey everyone,

Since I have been updating all my remaining extension recently for v2.9 and given that i haven't seen (or heard) Tenian here on the boards for a while, I have taken the cheeky liberty of hot patching his Lore extension for 2.9. (Hope you don't mind T). :)

All credits goto Tenian for this excellent extension, its incredibly useful particularly in large scale encounters. Note: this version of the extension will only work with v2.9a FGII onwards due to the numerous API changes introduced in the latest release.

Enjoy!

DrZ

adminwheel3
July 1st, 2012, 07:08
It looks like the check is being made against the PCs actual skill rather than their Passive Skill.

On a side note I also tried parsing images for the first time since it looks like this should be able to deliver those as well - unfortunately the test image I attempted failed - nothing was delivered. Ill try and dig into this more.

Zeus
July 1st, 2012, 08:44
It looks like the check is being made against the PCs actual skill rather than their Passive Skill.

This is how the original extension was setup. The extension carries out an automated knowledge/lore (Nature, History etc. etc.) check against Knowledge Skills listed in the skills list on the PCs char sheet. Passive skill checks using Perception and Insight are not used.


On a side note I also tried parsing images for the first time since it looks like this should be able to deliver those as well - unfortunately the test image I attempted failed - nothing was delivered. Ill try and dig into this more.

Sharing images associated with NPCs, is working fine for me. If you could provide step-by-step instructions to recreate the problem, I'll see if I can re-produce.

One thing to note: you will need to re-parse your NPCs using the latest 4EParser. This will ensure that the additional database node information is created/stored in the module. The additional node information (<lore>) is required by the extension to function properly.

adminwheel3
July 1st, 2012, 14:45
I may not relaying this correctly, or it may be a misunderstanding of how knowledge checks are to be made.

I have a PC with a Nature skill of 18, which would be 28 for passive skill checks.

When I set up an NPC with informational breakpoints of DC: 12, 16 and 24, the PC gains only the first two sets of information and not the third, despite the DC 24 being lower than her passive Nature skill of 28.

If its designed to check against only their skill without a passive bonus (and effectively without a roll) then it's working fine, but that's not my understanding of how knowledge checks are made - in fact I don't know of any situation in the rules where neither a die roll nor a passive skill bonus is used and only the base skill.

Or maybe I'm missing a step...is there something that ties an active check to the results of the information provided? That would work for me too...I can just have my PCs make their rolls and the lore is delivered to whomever make the skill+roll vs. dc threshold.

That would actually be be pretty nifty because then it could be repurposed to make 'NPCs' for automatic information delivery of information for anything - a room for example - just create a "Abandoned Chapel" NPC with just Fluff, put it in the combat tracker and have people make their perception checks when then enter the room /lore Abandoned and boom, everyone automatically gets information appropriate to their level of perception.

Although using the combat tracker would be a strange way of delivering information about things rather than NPCs.

Zeus
July 1st, 2012, 18:05
I may not relaying this correctly, or it may be a misunderstanding of how knowledge checks are to be made.

I have a PC with a Nature skill of 18, which would be 28 for passive skill checks.

When I set up an NPC with informational breakpoints of DC: 12, 16 and 24, the PC gains only the first two sets of information and not the third, despite the DC 24 being lower than her passive Nature skill of 28.

If its designed to check against only their skill without a passive bonus (and effectively without a roll) then it's working fine, but that's not my understanding of how knowledge checks are made - in fact I don't know of any situation in the rules where neither a die roll nor a passive skill bonus is used and only the base skill.

OK. The extension, as originally written, is setup to only carry out checks against PC's skill without a passive bonus (and effectively without a roll).

As to whether this is correct, I leave to the community to debate and agree. I'll happily mod the extension to suit the best approach.

According to the PHB page 179 (Passive Checks):

When your not actively using a skill, you're assumed to be taking 10 for any opposed checks using that skill. Passive checks are most commonly used for Perception checks and Insight checks, but the DM might also use your passive check result with skills such as Arcana or Dungeoneering to decide how much to tell you about a monster at the start of an encounter.


Or maybe I'm missing a step...is there something that ties an active check to the results of the information provided? That would work for me too...I can just have my PCs make their rolls and the lore is delivered to whomever make the skill+roll vs. dc threshold.

Opposed Skill Checks can be performed from the Skills tab of the Partysheet but they are not tied to the output of the Lore extension.

I can add in the passive check modifiers and make the checks active (i.e. with rolls) if the community prefers.


That would actually be be pretty nifty because then it could be repurposed to make 'NPCs' for automatic information delivery of information for anything - a room for example - just create a "Abandoned Chapel" NPC with just Fluff, put it in the combat tracker and have people make their perception checks when then enter the room /lore Abandoned and boom, everyone automatically gets information appropriate to their level of perception.

Although using the combat tracker would be a strange way of delivering information about things rather than NPCs.

You can use the Partysheet to run party based skill checks efficiently, there is no automation for the delivery of NPC lore information but the DM can use the PS as an effective way of determining who should get lore/perception information.

Griogre
July 2nd, 2012, 20:32
By the letter of the current rules, monster checks are suppose to active with the DC set as moderate vs. the monster's level.

However, I usually do use passive monster checks because its faster and not as swingy. I believe this to be a common house rule. I know I've seen posts on doing it this way on ENWorld to move things along or to avoid giving away something as a DM by calling for the players make to make checks.

Zeus
July 2nd, 2012, 21:03
Thing is, the roll element is supposed to represent luck, so in my mind a character either knows about a monster or does not. No luck involved.

Griogre
July 2nd, 2012, 21:17
Well, for fluff, with someone does poorly on a monster knowledge roll I always say they skipped the class on that monster, were making eyes at a member of the opposite sex in the next row over or were just not paying attention in class. ;) So while I agree with you the knowledge about a monster is binary, the opportunity to learn, and the degree of learning about a monster is not. The die roll reflects this individual uncertainty, since nobody goes to that much trouble to figure out that type of detail in character background.

Personally, I do use passive knowledge checks most of the time though just for shear speed, which in my mind reflects the PC more or less reflects average learning.