Campaign Cartographer 3

[Facie]

I've just discovered FG2 (I know, don't gasp!). I was wondering how easy it is to import and use CC3 creations (whether overland maps, dungeons, what have you) into the FG2 system. Before my group and I drop $140 or so on FG2, we want to understand how useful it'll be at displaying the maps we create in CC3. Anyone have experience?

Much thanks!
Facie

[Stitched]

If you can export it as an image, maps should display without any problems inside FG2.

[Griogre]

The only real consideration is file size, like Stitched said you can just drop pngs and jpgs into the campaign's image folder and the GM can display then display the images to the players.

CC3 can make production quality maps for printing and that's far to high a quality for web/monitor display so you will probably want to de-rez and lower the bit depth of the colors or you will spend time transferring high rez pics the monitor won't show any different from a 256 color image.

[Matchstick]

All the maps I've used with FG have been CC3 with Dungeon Designer. Honestly the Fantasy Grounds part of the process is the easier part, I'm still learning CC3!

[Facie]

That's the question I'm struggling with. I don't have CC3 or any add-on. I had CC (the original) many, many years ago. I've watched the CC3 videos and the interface is cumbersome. How easy is it to make dungeon/rooms that are visually appealing in FG2? I may be better off using my DDI subscription to download maps and then tweak my encounters to match the maps I obtain.

[bradbdavis]

Hello, I have CC3 and DD3. They are very powerful and can be complicated (with the power comes the complexity).

However, using CC3 & DD3, I was able to follow the DD3 tutorial video on You Tube and was creating dungeons with shadows, etc, after only an hour.

They look great, and it doesn't have to be too complicated.

Just my 2 cents

[Matchstick]

Hello, I have CC3 and DD3. They are very powerful and can be complicated (with the power comes the complexity).

However, using CC3 & DD3, I was able to follow the DD3 tutorial video on You Tube and was creating dungeons with shadows, etc, after only an hour.

They look great, and it doesn't have to be too complicated.

Just my 2 cents

I couldn't agree more, the tutorials on YouTube are FANTASTIC!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekhz1CICTkM is the first one. They've all helped me a lot. It's still complex enough that I have to watch them again when I get to the next map, but I don't mind as long as the reference is there.

[Facie]

Wow, those videos make it look so easy. Applying the sheet function to add shading makes it look 500% better. So when you're done and you export the finished product for FG2, does it export the entire dungeon or just the portions that have rooms actually built? I imagine it exports the unused areas as well in one big file. In other words, in the tutorial, he created a space that was just the temple, but the base map (grids) was much larger. Does it export the entire thing or just, in his example, the temple. Hopefully that makes sense.

One other question. Once I build a dungeon in the program, do I need to make individual battlemaps of the encounter rooms for FG2 or can I just zoom in on the portion of the total map that matters to the encounter? Hopefully that makes sense.

Thanks for your help!

[saithan]

That all depends on how you DM/GM your games. I myself make battlemaps. and use theater of the mind for the general exploration. I have seen others detail the main map so well that zooming is a perfect option.


FG2 accepts any png,jpg file to use as a map, so simply you export your map as an image file and place it in your images folder and that is it the rest is up to how you choose to run your games. keep in mind though that when you have people logged onto your FG server you are forming a network and thus the larger the image filesize the more strain you are placing on the network. ( the evil lag monster enters and he can be a formidable enemy).

I have used CC3 in the past (awesome program) and I remember being able to export only what I wanted. I could be wrong though.

[Matchstick]

I've never done a dungeon crawl in FG, but I don't think I'd like using the full map. It would feel too much like a board game then. I'd be more apt to make maps of specific rooms.

That sheet function thing is awesome isn't it? I don't know diddly and even I can make a map look good with that!

[Facie]

I think I'll buy a copy of CC3 and the Dungeon Designer. Not sure about the rest of the package and that software adds up quickly in price.

Now, if I could only solve the ubiquitous port 1802 problem, I'll be in business and my gaming group will buy 4 copies of FG2. :-)

[ProfMarks]

I have most of the CC3 progam suite and they are quite good but require an investment in time. The videos are straight forward, but I found doing something not preset to be a bit more involved then the videos suggest.

I've also used Dundjinni which does a nice job and is a bit more intuitive. However, much of their asset base is propriatary to that program and I don't believe it is supported by it's devs anymore.

I have since rolled back to using my adobe programs, photoshop and / or illustrator. I've done so because I can replicate many of the functions and features of the CC line without having to learn a new work flow CC requires. Additionally, I had a hard time exporting maps from CC and retaining their quality.

If you already own and are familiar with those programs and their feature sets, I'd suggest watching the CC tutorials and applying some of the map making lessons there and working inside of those programs. You can get great looking maps without having to invest the time in learning a new interface. And that my friends, allows for more gaming time.

[Mask_of_winter]

I suggest trying Fractal Mapper. It's on rpgnow. You can make battlemaps, dungeons and campaign maps. The graphics arent Dundjinni quality but the program as a whole is a lot easier to use than CC3 and works without a hitch. Especially if you dont have a high end machine to work with.

[VenomousFiligree]

+1 for Fractal Mapper, I've tried all 3 and found this the easiest (for me)! :)

[lady2beetle]

I use CC3 and DD3 and I really love it. I will come back sometimes and have to watch the video, and it is a bit of playing with it to figure out what works, but it's a lot of fun. Also, don't discount the Complete Annuals. I really love the ones that offer new styles or symbols.

I'm currently putting together a module for Rescue at Rivenroar (the first of the Scales of War adventures) and I love the maps they provide, but sometimes those maps have information I don't want my players seeing. So I typically just open up DD3 and remake the maps in a quick-and-dirty but every effective form (and without those annoying 'secret door' indicators ;).

This brings me to my related question, actually. Can anyone tell me how hard it is to take a map from DD3 with its grid and make monster and pc tokens fit the squares on my map's grid? I remember it being a nightmare when I was using ORPG, so I'm hoping it's easier with FG2?

[Facie]

This brings me to my related question, actually. Can anyone tell me how hard it is to take a map from DD3 with its grid and make monster and pc tokens fit the squares on my map's grid? I remember it being a nightmare when I was using ORPG, so I'm hoping it's easier with FG2?

I just did this over the weekend. In DD3 turn the grid on. I'm at work, but as I recall it's in "draw" "hex/grid" and then you set the spacing for 5 foot. Then, in order to achieve a 50 pixel per five feet ratio (which is what most FG2 tokens are), you set the pixel ratio when you invoke the "save as" DD3 feature to render the graphic down. I suggest you watch the second set of DD3 tutorials on You Tube done by Sweeney, but note that there is a CRUCIAL ERROR IN IT THAT WILL CAUSE CC3 TO CRASH REPEATEDLY. In short, his math is off by a factor of ten, which causes the system to think it's rendering a monstrous design and it will always crash. So, here's what you do.

Let's assume your dungeon is 120 feet wide. Choose "save as" then choose options and "save as PNG rectangle." Then it will ask you (or you may need to click options (again, I'm at work now)) for pixels. Here's the trick to making it work for FG2 and standard tokens -- FIFTY PIXELS equals FIVE FEET. It's actually easier to think in ten foot increments. So, if your dungeon is 120 feet wide, set the X pixel count to 1200 (or 10 pixels per 10 feet). Then you draw your rendering box around the map. So long as you match the rendering box you draw with the number of feet in your calculation, the resulting render will be exactly 50 pixels per five feet, which is plug and play for most FG2 tokens. If this doesn't make sense, drop me an email and I'll try to explain. Again, watch Sweeney's DD3 tutorials on You Tube, but note that he is off by a factor of ten (I think he says "13000 pixels for his 130 foot map and he should have said 1300 pixels).

[lady2beetle]

Thank you! I have watched Sweeney's videos and I repeatedly go back to watch them again, because they are full of so much good stuff! I'll make sure to snag his video on saving and exporting and watch it again.

Also, thank you for the confirmation. I was watching Xorn's videos and he shows how you can create a grid within FG2, but I'd rather do that within DD3 if possible because then I know I've got the walls and whatnot lined up just right. :)

[Facie]

I would definitely use DD3 grid feature versus applying on the fly with FG2 (as Xorn shows in his video). Plus, you can apply a sheet style to the grid in DD3 and reduce the harshness of the lines. Again, Sweeney's second video series shows how to do that and how to set the sheet up. Good luck and have fun! DD3 frustrated me for a week until I spent an entire weekend with it (and Sweeney's videos). It's really powerful once you get past the silly learning curve.

[Xorn]

Regarding the Kobold Hall map in the tutorial:

That was made with CC3/DD3, both a gridded an non-gridded version. The white square that I used to scale my FG2 grid was one 5' square from the grid in DD3. The original map would look amazing printed to a 1" grid; I exported it to 50 px/sq and then lowered the color depth to 256 colors to make it smaller.

I started off with the Sweeny tutorials as well, and between the Cartographer's Guild and the Profantasy forums I got to where I can shell out a basic map VERY quickly--and spending some time I've gotten to the point I can do some really nice effects, too.

https://www.eugee.info/movies/GGR/GGR.html

I found an old video I made of me creating the first area in Keep on the Shadowfell

[Facie]

By the way Xorn, let me say that without your videos, neither I nor my group would know how to use this fantastic software terribly well and my modules would be an organizational mess! Thanks for taking the time to help the community. We appreciate it even if you are not told often or loudly.

:)

[lady2beetle]

Oh, I absolutely agree, Facie! My group looked at FG back in December, but were pretty overwhelmed. I dug it out again this month and thanks to your tutorials, Xorn, we are VERY EXCITED to start using it. :)

...now if only I could figure out WHY my grid has gone missing in DD3... I have snaps, but no lines for my grid... *goes digging through Sweeney's tutorials again*

[Valarian]

Do you have the grid layer hidden? That's the simplest explanation.

The grid set in CC3 won't display lines. It'll display reference dots at the corners of the grid, but even these don't display if the grid is small and you're zoomed out. Zooming in to a section (Windows Zoom) should restore the grid dots.

The grid lines are drawn as objects on the map itself. They're drawn on the map grid layer and sheet. The layer allows the grid to be hidden and/or locked. The sheet orders the grid to display over the other map objects.

[Spyke]

Do you have the grid layer hidden? That's the simplest explanation.

Or possibly the grid sheet. It can be confusing that there are two things that you can toggle between visible and hidden: layers and sheets.

(For those without CC3 the program derives enormous power from having a series of layers where vector and bitmap objects can be drawn, combined with a set of sheets, each of which can have objects drawn on any layer, and to which graphic manipulation such as blur, glow and shadows can be applied.

Sheets stack, with "higher" sheets obscuring "lower" ones, and you can also manipulate the stacking of objects in layers. Very powerful; easy if you don't fiddle with the settings; easy if you've climbed the learning curve and know what you're doing; highly confusing if you take a little knowledge and experimentation and mix things up...)

Spyke

[Trenloe]

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[LordEntrails]

Resurrection of a 2021 complete Campaign Cartographer 3+ bundle: https://www.humblebundle.com/software/map-making-mega-bundle-software-encore-2025 $30 for pretty much everything - bargain!
This is awesome. Gotta check but pretty sure it has a few things I don't already have, like Fractal Terrains and the annuals.
Incredible deal.