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Lysander
June 9th, 2010, 19:09
I've seen in DnD 4.0 games a 'dice tower', where players roll skill checks that only GM's can see.

Savage Worlds ruleset could use that. Is it on the list of things to do? Or is it already available and I'm just missing it?

Mask_of_winter
June 9th, 2010, 22:49
I'll second that, I was just wishing that the Savage Worlds Ruleset had a dice tower also.

Doswelk
June 10th, 2010, 11:34
I failed to incorporate "the Box" when it was first written as the dice rolling code for the Savage Worlds ruleset is very different!

As I do not do any of the updates to the rule set (I just do the modules!), I cannot comment officially either way....

phantomwhale
July 31st, 2010, 17:09
I'd quite like to see one of these - but yeah, the Savage rolling has a few nuances with wild die, that might change things.

All said, what are the options for developing this as an extension ? I guess there might be legal difficulties here, as it'd be easiest to take the 4E code (property of Smiteworks) and either offering it to the community under open license (licensing issue) or as an extension under Smiteworks (unlikely to be a good offering - think users would rather see this is an updated ruleset than as a "bolt on extras" option).

That said, "The Box" is open licensed right ? Or is that what led to the 4E dice tower, thus not so open now ? I feel a grey area coming on... Either way, could use that as a starting point for a less legally cumbersome extension...

Probably should finish the one I'm working on first though ;)

phantomwhale
May 18th, 2011, 14:48
Right, lets do this...

What should "The Box" - hence forth known as the SW Dice Tower - actually DO ? I've got the following initial spec (which is the 4E tower behavior):

Allow player's to drop rolls onto the tower - this will inform the player the roll has been sent (e.g. "[Secret] Notice d6") and roll the dice normally on the GM's screen. Only the GM sees the results - it acts as a standard "hidden" roll.
If the GM is running with revealed dice, have the tower appear to allow him to drop hidden rolls through the tower himself (as above, except no "informing" chat line, just the result)
Turn it off and on via the options menu


Does that cover everything ? Or are there other conditions that this doesn't cover ? Also any thoughts on icons - I can re-use the 4E tower, but is there something more... Savage ?!? (or Western, even, thinking ahead to the DLR skin...)

Doswelk
May 18th, 2011, 15:06
Just some thoughts....

Should the players be allowed to see dice exploding?
I can arguments both ways, not sure if it can be stopped anyway.
With regard to icons...

Not good any good ideas:
The compass from the SWEX book?
Something similar to the tower but with Smiling Jack on it?
For Deadlands a wooden fort?

phantomwhale
May 19th, 2011, 02:25
I think they'll see dice explode - currently the interface is "roll visibly" or "roll hidden", there is no "roll without anyone seeing" ability, short of making a separate, secret GM-only chat window, or just rolling on the desktop and doing the exploding / adding up yourself !

Again, I see the argument either way, so will go with "players WILL see the dice explode" as it's the easiest option.

mr_h
May 19th, 2011, 17:28
All said, what are the options for developing this as an extension ? I guess there might be legal difficulties here, as it'd be easiest to take the 4E code (property of Smiteworks) and either offering it to the community under open license (licensing issue) or as an extension under Smiteworks (unlikely to be a good offering - think users would rather see this is an updated ruleset than as a "bolt on extras" option).

That said, "The Box" is open licensed right ? Or is that what led to the 4E dice tower, thus not so open now ? I feel a grey area coming on... Either way, could use that as a starting point for a less legally cumbersome extension...



I can't help with coding discussions, but there's a 'box' in the Castles and Crusades ruleset I think. I'm not sure if it's the same as the 4E one however.

phantomwhale
May 20th, 2011, 00:59
Well, just to be clear, the post you were quoting was from me before I got "on the inside" E.g. when I wanted to make a free extension to supplement the SW ruleset. Now I'm coding it for the SW ruleset, so licensing issues aren't an issue (e.g. I can just pinch the 4E code) as it's all under Smiteworks copyright.

So my question here, as someone who has never used "The Box" or the 4E tower, is what scenarios do people use these in, and does the above specification as a user cover all those possible scenarios ?

mr_h
May 20th, 2011, 02:48
That'll show me for not checking the date on posts...

Only one other situation that MIGHT arise: What if a player is say, picking another players pocket. He'd roll in secret to the GM, but he might need to see his own roll. (Note, this has never occurred to me yet, and maybe there's another way around it, but just one thing that came up to me).

As for the icon:
-I like Doswelks 'compass' idea
-Something with Bennies? (A benny with smiling jack?)

Doswelk
May 20th, 2011, 08:24
I think your notes above cover it.

A lot if the way SW is written seems designed to negate the need for secret rolls, but sometimes they can be useful.

phantomwhale
May 20th, 2011, 08:31
Big question is still the icons then.

The SWEX compass would be "SWEXy", but not sure it's at all "Secret dice rollery" ? Need someone to see the icon and lean toward the idea of dropping dice onto it for secret rolls. But at the same time, don't want to dump a big brick tower there for non-fantasy gamers, given the whole ruleset has a more "pulp" feel anyway.

Maybe a GM screen (the haven for all hidden rolls) ? Or a dice cup ?

Like the wooden fort idea for a Western / Deadlands skin.

VenomousFiligree
May 20th, 2011, 08:35
I would argue against the PCs seeing dice exploding (if it can be done). Secret should be secret :)

phantomwhale
May 20th, 2011, 08:38
I would argue against the PCs seeing dice exploding (if it can be done). Secret should be secret :)

Although trying doing a "secret" explode at the table ?! (ok, it's perfectly possible, with a little misdirection...)

Will have to look to see how easy it is whilst coding it.

VenomousFiligree
May 20th, 2011, 08:45
We should not be limited by the real world table and take advantage of what FG allows (as we do else where) ;)

If it *can* be done, maybe an option for either?

Doswelk
May 20th, 2011, 18:02
Although trying doing a "secret" explode at the table ?! (ok, it's perfectly possible, with a little misdirection...)

Will have to look to see how easy it is whilst coding it.

Would it be easier to have it always appear to explode?

<evil grin>

VenomousFiligree
May 20th, 2011, 18:37
Would it be easier to have it always appear to explode?

<evil grin>

Like it! http://rpgvirtualtabletop.com/images/evilgrin.gif

Griogre
May 21st, 2011, 01:58
LOL, I like it too! :D

Wretch
May 31st, 2011, 18:47
i sat down to think about this for most of the afternoon, whilst pretending to do some work... In regards to images, it really depends on whether the plan is to have a specific image for each setting, or a generic one for all.

Many of the settings are indeed pulpy, but not all. Its much easier to think of themed images though, you could even tie it in with a similar image for each theme. For example, it could always be "chuck your dice in the hat" and then you could use a cowboy hat for Deadlands, a top hat or bowler hat for Rippers/Space 1889, a Biggles flying hat or a Fedora for pulp etc, etc)

If its going to be generic to cover all, then its harder to decide, at least Ive found it to be so anyway. ive not been able to come up with a satisfactory answer, I dont really like it being a tower as thats to setting specific. Nor a GM-screen as I dont think the graphic itself will be that cool. Perhaps we should play on the secrecy aspect of the action, maybe it should simply be an image of a dice cup with a "?" on the side, though thats not a particularly exciting graphic either. Maybe some sort of character with a mask on to signify the spy-like aspect?

OK clearly this needs more thought, I was only going to post a one-liner and look whats happened. This is why I dont join forums! ahem...

Sorry bout the wall 'o' text.

Wretch