Good Mass Combat System?

[+++++]

Does anyone know of a good mass combat game? I'm thinking of running a home brew for some friends but I need a good mass combat system to blend into it.

The setting isn't very important, it just needs to be mechanically sound and interesting. L5R was the best I could come up with and that's probably what I'll use unless something better is suggested.

[ronnke]

Not sure if this is the sort of thing you are chasing but SJG has mass combat rules for GURPS available for download at e23.

https://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG37-0131

[Oberoten]

For some reason, I have always been fond of the first and second version of Warhammer FRPG for quick mass combat resolution.

Basically : If the troops are of roughly simililar skill : Roll 1d6 for each char/attack, hitting on 4+. With normal armament and normal toughness of the target, Reroll all hits and on 4+ it is a kill/wound. If the target wears armour, reroll all kill/wound results, let the target survive on 6+

Provided you have a heap of D6 this is pretty darn fast. And with advantages to position etc, just raise or lover the target-value for the dice.

- Obe

[+++++]

The Warhammer one doesn't sound to bad. GURPS is an issue because I also want them to have characters in the mass combat game I'm using, so they can partake and GURPS is a bit clunky for my purposes.

Any other suggestions?

[Oberoten]

If you want some more flexibility you can use D10 with 6+ as base threshold. It'll give a bit more of range, but D6 is generally easier/faster to assign who has what.

For a D20 version : Same level : Base 4+ on a D6, 3 levels higher attacker would give the attacker to hit on 3+, defender on 5+ etc.

[tdewitt274]

Birthright
The Ultimate Base
Fields of Blood
Cry Havoc
Pendragon
Reign
OD&D Rules Cyclopedia
Kingmaker Adventure Path may have this in future books



This may help: Fantasy games with "domain management" rules (https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=507918)

[Sorontar]

I seem to recall Savage Worlds has a mass combat section, I'll have to dig it out and have a look.

[Spyke]

GURPS is an issue because I also want them to have characters in the mass combat game I'm using, so they can partake and GURPS is a bit clunky for my purposes.

It's not clear from this whether you've read the GURPS 4e Mass Combat rules, but if not I'd second this. The rules are elegant and adaptable, and built around the idea of the PCs being part of the action. You could still run the game using a different rule system if something else was better suited to the story, and just assign the relevant GURPS skills to your characters just for the purposes of the Mass Combat resolution.

Spyke

[Kalan]

I seem to recall Savage Worlds has a mass combat section, I'll have to dig it out and have a look.

Savage Worlds does have mass combat section, where in the core book I can't recall. Alternatively, PEG Inc (the company behind Savage Worlds), has a mass combat game system known as Showdown (https://www.peginc.com/Downloads/Showdown/Showdown.pdf) which could also help you out some :)

[philth]

im a big savage fan, but not really so big on its mass combat rules. only used them twice, both times it was anti-climatic also very deadly for pcs. the 2nd time I used it, it ended my session with a tpk. almost better off if the players do not include there characters in the festivities, but what hero does that?

[Doswelk]

Yes the Mass battle rules in the SWEX book are deadly but then in a battle with hundreds if not thousands of people fighting I think it's not unlikely that a hero would be killed!

Kalan was right to point out Showdown this may be less lethal for your PCs...

[borusa32]

I have successfully used GURPS mass combat in a fantasy game with character integration in the past.
Savage Worlds has an add on.
Although many years out of print War Law was a good wargame add on fopr Rolemaster and I still drag it out and use it.
On the PC front UMS can be found for download.

Peter

[TheMetal1]

Here are a couple of options for you Bookwise

1. AEG's War (for 3.X)
2. WOTC's Heroes of Battle (for 3.5)
3. Troll Lord Games Fields of Battle for Castles & Crusades (not out yet, but coming shortly - boxed set)
4. WOTC's Miniatures Handbook (for 3.5)
5. Mythic Vista's Testament RPG in the Biblical Era

Another option is go the miniature route for your game.

Field of Glory - miniature game is a great way of doing it. Since they've gone digital as well with turn by turn, in PvP mode this might work for you all.

[bigbsonnier]

I found an awesome post that really discusses the problem with mass combat and offers a hell of a solution.

https://trollitc.com/2010/09/mass-combat-with-dd-4e-formations-as-swarms/

and the follow up article

https://trollitc.com/2010/09/mass-combat-with-dd-4e-%e2%80%93-the-war-at-large/

I forget if its covered in the article, but i read somewhere else another idea that really ties in with 4E, being swarms can be moved through if a hero character (i.e. pc's and particular npc's, good or bad) is in the swarm unit or i would even say 1 to 5 squares from it ( your character leading the charge dives into the enemy units and then falls back or something) give a bonus to the swarm. Defender: +1/5lvls defenses, Striker: +1/5lvls damage, Leader: +(?1%?)/5lvls hitpoints, Controller: +1/5lvls attack .

Was part of an "epic battle" encounter one time and it was fun but ground down way too much for it to be repeated. took some crafty use of earth to mud and mud to earth scrolls to take out a couple of hill giants that were clearly beyond our level at the time (once trapped we stood at distance and balisted them death, he he). our dm was dumbfounded and never let us choose x number of scrolls at x lvl before certain big battles ever agian. It was a riot though.

[Ictinike]

I found an awesome post that really discusses the problem with mass combat and offers a hell of a solution.

https://trollitc.com/2010/09/mass-combat-with-dd-4e-formations-as-swarms/

and the follow up article

https://trollitc.com/2010/09/mass-combat-with-dd-4e-%e2%80%93-the-war-at-large/

I forget if its covered in the article, but i read somewhere else another idea that really ties in with 4E, being swarms can be moved through if a hero character (i.e. pc's and particular npc's, good or bad) is in the swarm unit or i would even say 1 to 5 squares from it ( your character leading the charge dives into the enemy units and then falls back or something) give a bonus to the swarm. Defender: +1/5lvls defenses, Striker: +1/5lvls damage, Leader: +(?1%?)/5lvls hitpoints, Controller: +1/5lvls attack .

Was part of an "epic battle" encounter one time and it was fun but ground down way too much for it to be repeated. took some crafty use of earth to mud and mud to earth scrolls to take out a couple of hill giants that were clearly beyond our level at the time (once trapped we stood at distance and balisted them death, he he). our dm was dumbfounded and never let us choose x number of scrolls at x lvl before certain big battles ever agian. It was a riot though.

Those are great articles! :)

Thanks for those and some great ideas come to mind, lol

[demonsbane]

Not sure if this is the sort of thing you are chasing but SJG has mass combat rules for GURPS available for download at e23.

https://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG37-0131

Also, recently SJG released Mass Combat in PoD (Printed on Demand) physical format. I'ts available at Warehouse23 (https://www.warehouse23.com/) and through other sites like amazon.com and some local stores:

https://www.warehouse23.com/item.html?id=SJG01-6197


It's not clear from this whether you've read the GURPS 4e Mass Combat rules, but if not I'd second this. The rules are elegant and adaptable, and built around the idea of the PCs being part of the action. You could still run the game using a different rule system if something else was better suited to the story, and just assign the relevant GURPS skills to your characters just for the purposes of the Mass Combat resolution.

I want to second these comments. The way of making the PCs part of the action is great and David Pulver is following the fourth edition streamlined approach for rules design, like he did in the Basic Set and in the GURPS Spaceships (https://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/spaceships/) sub-line.

And there is an interesting Pyramid magazine issue devoted to Mass Combat from a fantasy angle -featuring different kinds of crunchy and fluffy articles: Pyramid #3/04: Magic on the Battlefield (https://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG37-2604).

[vodokar]

I've tried the Savage Worlds version for Mass Combat a couple of times. It is pretty good. I only had one gripe with it.

It gave high toughness characters an advantage in the system, which is good. It did not take into account the benefit of extra agility for high agility style characters, however.

I was playing a character at the time that was specced like a high agility striker rogue type that wore no armor, but in individual combat is tough to lay a hand on.

I really got the short end of the stick under the mass combat rules.

[phantomwhale]

Battlesystem used to be great for AD&D mass combats. Not a "simple" system though, but much simpler than proper wargames, and most of the complexity was blending the character powers into the mass battle ruleset.

Pendragon also had quite a nice system where you have "the battle" with morale and how it's going, and characters using leadership like skills to win "the battle", but then I think you had individual fights hero-on-hero which could help swing the battle, or maybe the fights were tougher when the battle was going badly... in a nutshell, you could win by having high battle skill or high personal combat skills, but it was easiest with a sprinkling of both !

I only played in the Pendragon game though, so less sure about that.

[demonsbane]

Battlesystem used to be great for AD&D mass combats. Not a "simple" system though, but much simpler than proper wargames, and most of the complexity was blending the character powers into the mass battle ruleset. (. . .)

Ah, I remember that book, it was good. I think that miniatures were needed to play with that system.