character copy/cache not found

[Zubla]

installed FG2 2008-9-7
various upgrades until 2.6.5 LITE
d20_jpg
windows2000 sp4

I read through many messages and it looks like a local cache/copy of a server character has been around since 2.4 and working for sure since 2.5, but players in our group have looked and cannot find local copies. I even did a full directory scan looking for the character's name in a file, but found no match.

We play once a month, sometimes every other month. (It was one afternoon a year before FG2, so much improved). So our server is only up on game days. Offline copies are incredibly useful. Just from my personal experiences:
1. Trying to get up to speed with 3.5 and a new dual class character creation system, it would have been nice to have a copy on my machine to show my helper (because I very much did not know what I was talking about).
2. We use an offline message board to plan what we are going to do between sessions which works wonderfully since we rarely have the same free time slot available. Questions come up like, "Who has the most UMD skill points?" which cannot be answered because no one can glance at their (local) copy of the character sheet.

I am a bit confused by all the variations possible here in FG2 land, so I am not sure if this is a bug/feature/wish for d20_jpg. Please tell me what other information I can supply to help with this.

TIA,
Zubla

[Griogre]

I sounds like you want to view a local version of your character from your campaign? To do so start FG then click the Manage Characters button. In the in the bottom pane is a list of campaigns. Select the campaign and start FG by pressing the start button. Move you mouse over the buttons in the top right of the FG desktop and click the one that says characters. It should show a list of characters make with that ruleset.

This is a static, non changeable version of the character loaded out of the campaigns encrypted cache.

[Zubla]

9 times I tried this. Including just yesterday. Including asking the server to be brought up to refresh the cache. Now it works!?!?! This is more than car problem disappearing in front of the mechanic.

Walt, did you change something on the server?

[Phystus]

I'm Zubla's DM. I've been mystified too. My wife plays in this campaign too. She can view local characters, (she also has the lite version of FG) but which characters she can view seems to vary. She has had 3 in this campaign, and only seems to be able to view the ones she actually used in the last session, but not ones played previously.

Which doesn't seem to be the same issue as Zubla is having, since he's only been playing one character for about the last year or so.

The only changes I've made between the previous session and yesterday were in an adventure module (new version). No changes to the core campaign or the FG version.

So now it's working? Cool deal, but I'm still wondering why it wasn't before.

~P

[Griogre]

There can be some oddities with the cache. For example it seems to remember the type of ruleset that originally made the cache. IE for a character I am playing in 4E that started using JPG's 4E_JPG ruleset that was converted to the 4E ruleset won't show up in the rulesets catagory under 4E it shows up in the 4E_JPG area. I have had troubles finding things through the rulesets so I always use the campaign name.

Thus if you had a long running d20 game (and it sounds like you do) then the game might have been started under the d20 ruleset then changed over to the d20_JPG. I have a character that was in a Shackled City Campaign and it it doesn't show up under any of the rulesets, d20, 3.5, or d20_JPG - but it does show up under the Shackled City Campaign.

[Zubla]

I have:

Rulesets:
3.5E (Extension: Dungeon Theme)
4E (Extensions: 4E Theme-Dungeon, 4E Theme-Metal, 4E Theme-Wood)
d20
foundation (Extensions: 3.5E, Dungeon Theme)

Campaigns:
Pegasus Falls d20_JPG
Plynar_d20 d20_JPG
Module_Maker d20_JPG

[Griogre]

That's interesting information on how Phystus' wife can only access characters that were used in the prior session. Do you "free" (clear the user id of) the characters a lot? I would imagine that on a character own by nobody then no one could see it from their local cache. Is it possible that sometimes when someone can't make it you have another player open the character? That would prevent that player from seeing that character until the next game where the character was re-assigned to his user id. Normally this would not be a big deal except you have a large amount of time between games.

If you think that may be the problem then have someone who missed a session log in so the character can be re-assigned back to his user ID.

[Phystus]

Nobody else played the characters, and I don't think I've ever had to free any of the 4 characters involved. I have had to free a couple others long ago due to hard crashes on the client end, but that was many sessions ago, and I'm fairly sure it didn't involve any of these characters.

~P

[Griogre]

Hmm. How many characters does each player normally run? Do many have multiple characters?

[Phystus]

Ironically, everyone except Zubla plays two (or more). Well, one guy plays a single character plus an animal companion, but Dawg has his own character sheet, so in FG terms he's a character. Though Zubla actually has a couple characters, he only plays one (always the same one).

~P

[Zubla]

Back when we installed I had a Rogue/Wizard. Never played since except maybe I mistakenly clicked on it one time. I have played only a Rogue/Warrior since then.

Phystus, can your wife's lite version be coaxed into downloading local cache of all her characters -- that will show up in Manage mode when the server is down?

Are there commands or programs which accumulate debugging information?
I guess we should first decide if it is still a problem and thus a bug; since it finally worked for me after last session...

[Phystus]

Back when we installed I had a Rogue/Wizard. Never played since except maybe I mistakenly clicked on it one time. I have played only a Rogue/Warrior since then.

Phystus, can your wife's lite version be coaxed into downloading local cache of all her characters -- that will show up in Manage mode when the server is down?

Are there commands or programs which accumulate debugging information?
I guess we should first decide if it is still a problem and thus a bug; since it finally worked for me after last session...

I just fired up FG, had my wife sign on, open all 3 of her characters, then shut down. Then I shut down, she fired up her lite version and was able to manage all 3.

So I'm wondering if sometime between our previous session and the one before (i.e. sometime in March) did you sign on while I had a different campaign open? Or sign on and not open Darkthorn? The latter would certainly explain the problem, as your cache from that signon wouldn't have Darkthorn in it. Does FG keep a separate cache for each campaign? I'd guess it would, but I've never checked.

~P

[Zubla]

I just fired up FG, had my wife sign on, open all 3 of her characters, then shut down. Then I shut down, she fired up her lite version and was able to manage all 3.

So I'm wondering if sometime between our previous session and the one before (i.e. sometime in March) did you sign on while I had a different campaign open? Or sign on and not open Darkthorn? The latter would certainly explain the problem, as your cache from that signon wouldn't have Darkthorn in it. Does FG keep a separate cache for each campaign? I'd guess it would, but I've never checked.

~P

No... and no... but...

Okay, it _just_ worked for me after our last session for as far as I know the first and only time. It was a long time between updates at one point. And when I could never find local characters (before the Manage Characters button??), I stopped trying. I did try it before our last session (looking for UMD skill ranks) and no local cache of Darkthorn. So not working then. Also the players did not update so at 2.6.5LITE before and after last session. And the session before?

At this point I would need a local log of updates; is that available? And I would need to know in which version did Manage Characters first show up and expect to work for us in d20_JPG.

I guess I could see software resetting something 2 sessions ago so that it worked last session. (Logically we would have had to have upgraded 3 sessions ago for this to be true. Or Gremlins. Gremlins are -6 to hit with normal weapons?). At this point with it now working on 2 computers, I guess we could monitor the situation. Maybe if we could remember to make a known and obvious change to the server character each time so as to see if this obvious change gets saved in the local cache character? I mean otherwise at this point we are trying to debug something that seems to be working just fine now...

[Zubla]

What seems to be the issue is that the close character Release button does two different things. It Releases or 'Frees' the character in case some other group member might play that character. It also Erases the local cache copy of that character.

Given that the GM on the server full version can override and Free/Release a character for an absent party member, I recommend the english text for the button be called something like "Erase" or "Clean up".

If the intention was/is that the players should be able to trade characters around with the Release button, then having one button do two things is a problem. Let me give a simple real life example:

Three gaming sessions, confusingly named One, Two, and Three. In session One everyone showed up and played. Player Buckaroo announces he cannot make session Two (has to perform neurosurgery during a rock concert), so he Releases Buckaroo for a mate to look over. Now session Three is coming up and Buckaroo wants to Manage characters and check his local cache copy of Buckaroo. Alas, he cannot! When he Free-Released Buckaroo at the end of Session One, he also Erased his local cache copy!

TIA.

[Zeus]

I have only just joined this thread but I'll add my 2 pence worth.

If you were to split the function of the currently named Release Character such that it didn't erase or flush the local cached copy, you would risk data integrity or at the very least only have access to stale data. Let me explain.

In your 3 game example if Buckaroo's charsheet was modified in game two, let's say he took some damage and spent some cash, those changes would not be in your cached local copy since the copy was made at the end of game one. Now when you next logged in (game three), the integrity of the campaign database could be compromised as both your local cached copy and the server copy of Buckaroo would be different. Worst case any changes you planned to make might be affected by the fact your view of Buckaroo wasn't current.

I believe its for this fundamental reason why local cached copies need to be erased or flushed when releasing characters.

I suppose its possible to flush the cached copy if the server version is newer but I believe this would require a change to FGII's core engine and not just rulesets.

[Zubla]

I understood that when I wrote my example but I decided not to complicate the discussion by including it. My mistake.

While your point is valid, the local cache copy does not corrupt the server copy because data is one way only. This correctly prevents the tricksters from modifying their copy to have the Hammer of Thor which then gets loaded into the game copy.

The worst case I was considering writing was a lengthy tale about electrified false doors and people trying to kill other peoples characters on purpose; which, while funny, again would have added unnecessarily to my message. In most cases the local cache copy is still useful (at least) as a memory jogger.

Finally, what you state as possible bad behavior is already implemented in the code. If Buckaroo did not release his character at the end of session One (so his friend could look it over) and he did not show up for session Two, then the GM would have used his server powers to release Buckaroo so the friend could play it. This would result in session Two modifying server-Buckaroo of course, while the owner still had his local cache copy of Buckaroo (modified by session One events).

Thank-you for your thoughts. All things considered, I would still rather have things split up since it already works that way for the GM/server copy. And since the pure alternative would remove the ability to release a character from the GM.