Image / Map Layers

[TR0LL]

After playing with FG for a bit something I want more than anything at the moment is a Layer system for maps. I think ideally it would work like this.

At the top of each map window there is a simple drop down selection for layers
Top
Middle
Bottom

Bottom layer: would be used for a base. Background image, parchment, grass, rock, whatever. or you could use the default new image screen, that way it could be expanded on the fly. apply the grid (same grid effects all 3 layers)

Middle Layer: Player your dungeon tiles (on the fly random dungeons anyone?) Terrain, cover, static objects.

Top Layer: Tokens and play space. the monsters, players and area templates are placed/moved around here.

The bottom and middle layers should only be editable by the GM, the players should only have access to the Top Layer. all three layers should be transparent, so that you can see elements on all three layers from the top.

This would add so much flexibility to the program I think it would be amazing.

[DNH]

Sounds very much like the setup for maptool. I give this a "Rerrit!" and add client-side map manipulation to the mix.

[TR0LL]

Ah I've never tried maptool, I looked at some screenshots and thought it was very unpolished and passed it over in favor of FG. interesting to know that it has this feature though.

[EugeneZ]

This has been discussed a few times before. It's an awful lot of programming work for something that doesn't really forward the goal that Fantasy Grounds is pursuing. The idea behind FG2 is to take the idea of a "virtual tabletop" very literally. That's what allows the many varied rulesets: the core functionality of the software is very generic.

That said, I think FG2 could use some more fine-grained control over tokens. It would be nice to be able to enable things like vehicles and mounts in a generic fashion. Being able to control the z-index of a token sounds like a relatively simple thing to add, and it would provide much of the functionality you're requesting, just not with such a nice interface.

[TR0LL]

This has been discussed a few times before. It's an awful lot of programming work for something that doesn't really forward the goal that Fantasy Grounds is pursuing. The idea behind FG2 is to take the idea of a "virtual tabletop" very literally. That's what allows the many varied rulesets: the core functionality of the software is very generic.



I cannot say that I agree with you, the functionality I'm talking about is VERY generic and not set to any one system or even theme. Also this type of layered map would be more like an actual table top, when I play games here I can easily put tiles down, and move models around on them. FG is actually limiting that kind of game-play.

With more token functionality this could be overcome, such as the ability for the GM to lock a Token and even he/she could not move them unless unlocked, also making it so that tokens placed above it would have priority for "grabbing" This would allow us to start a blank image, apply a grid and use Toke style tiles. This is actually an easier method thank my first suggestion.

[EugeneZ]

You're right; I guess ultimately what I'm saying is that it's too complex a system to implement for the benefit it provides. My alternative is not as nice, but it has a much higher chance of actually being developed. Of course, if Smiteworks decides its worth it to invest the time, great. I just doubt it and wish they'd focus their time on the hundred other things far more important than this.

[Foen]

I think this might be doable at the ruleset level, with the existing functionality of the FG engine. The ruleset could display two image controls, one overlapping the other:

The bottom image control would contain the background image, and have tiles placed on it as tokens; and
The top image control would be transparent, containing the normal game tokens and the grid.

The grid would have to go on the top control, because you'd want to snap game tokens to it (the bottom control would also need some kind of snap for the tiles, but that could be programmatic). Tokens on the top control would not interfer with the tiles because the bottom control wouldn't receive any system events while it was covered.

There could be a GM-only facility to toggle which layer was on top, allowing the GM to access the tiles.

Foen

[TR0LL]

That is a great idea Foen, anyone with the skills/knowledge of the system want to write an extension for it?

Im far too new to FG - and have zero programing skills.

I could just imagine this being made then someone making a Warhammer Quest ruleset, or Space Hulk.. or.. endless possibilities.

[Foen]

I've had a go at this, and posted it on the FG Wiki (https://oberoten.dyndns.org/fgwiki/index.php/Layer_Extension). It isn't perfect because it cannot intercept the zoom events when you press control and then move the scroller. Zooming should therefore be done using the mouse wheel.

It also cannot dynamically set the size of the transparent top layer, so it creates one that is 5000x5000 pixels. This means the window is a bit slow and the size of the maps that this can use is limited to that size.

If this is useful, perhaps Doug or JPG can expose the other functionality needed to overcome these limitations.

It isn't compatible with my drawing tools.

Also, I haven't tested this in anger...

Foen

[TR0LL]

wow this is damn near perfect, but as you mentioned there are some issues, like middle click to move the map doesn't work when on the top layer, zooming out moved the tokens on the top layer.

But its a great start, I'm surprised you got this done so fast (unless you already had it done)

[EugeneZ]

Indeed, Foen, that is awesome. Once some of the usability issues are fixed, this might work well for things like vehicles, too... excellent.

And I suppose that's my point up above -- were these features to be added to FG2 directly, they would waste the developers' time. I'm all for talented folks like Foen adding this sort of thing, I just don't want Smiteworks spending their time on stuff like that when there are bigger fish to fry! But I doubt you cared, TR0LL, how it got done, just that it did, so from that perspective I'm glad you started the thread.

Can I also add that with a name like that, you are *begging* for people to ignore and/or argue with you? :D

[Foen]

I put this together this morning from scratch, so it still needs some work. You should set the grid when you are on the bottom layer and it will replicate it for the top layer. I think that stops the issues with zooming out.

I'll work on the middle mouse button thing, but won't be able to test it. I use Windows Se7en and it hijacks the middle mouse button.

Foen

[Zeus]

Foen - I can guinea pig for you. Let me know.

[TR0LL]

But I doubt you cared, TR0LL, how it got done, just that it did, so from that perspective I'm glad you started the thread.

Can I also add that with a name like that, you are *begging* for people to ignore and/or argue with you? :D

Yes exactly. I don't care who did it only that it was done!

As for my name, I suppose, however you would think that a forum based around software for RPGs would not jump to conclusions, its a nick ive had for a long time, got it in the ARMY, referencing more to my size than anything else I'm 6'5" and people always referred to me as a "lanky $#^&*% troll"



I'll work on the middle mouse button thing, but won't be able to test it. I use Windows Se7en and it hijacks the middle mouse button.

Foen
This is very odd, I have Win 7 ultimate 64bit running and I have no issues with my middle button.

[Foen]

Updated the other thread.

[TR0LL]

Ill keep the posts there from now on, no need to have two threads rolling for this.

[BruntFCA]

Troll,

Did you write the dungeon delve where two massive trolls grab PCs and use them as clubs? I remember the guy that wrote that had been in the army as well!

I must say though I can't agree that working on this is a waste of precious
resource. This is just the kind of eye candy drag and drop easy to make functionality that would appeal to DMs I think. It would make setting up a dungeon delve or an Dungeon Published from say Dragon magazine a snap if you pardon the pun...

[TR0LL]

Nope sorry, that wasnt me.

Also the main discussion has moved to this thread.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11966

and Doug has taken an interest in it! yay layers!