Trying to grasp some basic FG2 concepts.

[Frobozz]

Ok, I've had FG2 sitting around now for about a month. I'm itching to start running a campaign on it, but I'm feeling a little overwhelmed and was hoping to get some specific questions answered.

First off, I'm somewhat getting the idea of exactly what is entailed with rulesets, extensions and modules; but let me echo the definitions here so I can be corrected if needed:

Rulesets are the actual game mechanics packages. They're the game-engines of RPGs. They are wildly different. It's like comparing World of Darkness: Vampire the Masquerade against WotC's 3.5ed d20 D&D.

Extensions are minor variations in rulesets. You can take a big, generic ruleset like "d20" and apply specific alterations to it. An extension would be like comparing d20 D&D 3.5e with d20 Pathfinder, or WoD Vampire the Masquerade with WoD Mage the Ascension.

Modules are generic resources. They are (are or can be?) ruleset specific (extension specific?). Modules can contain library material such as equipment lists, spell statistics and general info such as class and race information. Modules can also contain game maps and game text for the GM's use.

Sometimes, depending on the internal programming of the ruleset and module, module information can interact in specific fashion with parts of the ruleset. For example, you can drag and drop spells from a spell library onto a character sheet's spell area, or weapons from an equipment list library onto a combat section of the character sheet to auto-fill stats.

How does this sound? Am I understanding this correctly or am I totally confused?

[templarghost]

Just to respond to your last question, whether you're right or wrong about your assumptions...well, you are as far as I can tell on the right track!

From where I'm standing, it's about time you should start using the program in a more active fashion, not just letting it sit around for a month, but actually experimenting with it.
You can run dummy campaigns, start working on you're own adventure modules (now these are a bit different than the library modules, but I'm certain you'll notice the differences...as far as I'm concerned, you already do...adventure modules hold story entries, NPCs from that particular adventure, maps and images, items related to the adventure, encounters and conditions\modifiers, as opposed to the library modules, which often consist of ruleset-specific data, like equipment tables, info regarding races and classes, feats, spells and other bits that are very useful when running adventures or campaigns).

If you want some tutorials on how to use the program, I suggest watching Xorne's Video Tutorials (you can find them here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/downloads/), or if the link doesn't work for some reason, look under the Downloads category on the website, and on the right-hand side lower on the page there's a "Community Tutorials" pane, where the videos are listed).

All in all, you should just use the program intuitively and see how that works. Try joining a group and play a game or two, just to see how things work and then start planning you're own campaigns.
Hope this helps and best wishes with the program!

[Frobozz]

I have been poking around with it, I'll admit. I haven't seen any games available for nights I have free yet, but if a Friday night 3.5e D&D or Pathfinder game that sounds interesting opens up, I'm planning on jumping in.

I watched some of the Xorne videos, but the problem I saw when watching them is he already has a highly configured FG2 with multiple rulesets, resources, etc installed. It doesn't help his examples are mostly with 4e rules which I have no interest in playing. I've picked up on a few things though from watching them.

Making adventure modules just seems like so much extra work though. I'd rather just have a file-open dialog and be able to pick a map graphic from anywhere on my drive and a generic monster manual library I can drag monsters from. When I DM, most of my gaming is pretty freeform; rarely using maps or game aids. I use a white-board and dry erase markers hanging on the wall to illustrate complex rooms or combats. It just seems like so much more planning is involved. I've been looking at map-making software, though most of what I've found is kinda clunky.

I dunno, I'll keep farting around with it and see if I can get it to jump through a few hoops. :)

[Foen]

Hi Frobozz and welcome to these forums: I hope you find us helpful and friendly! You have the ruleset/extension/module thing just about right, and seem to have got the idea about effort required to create an adventure module.

I sometimes create adventure material in advance (key maps and NPCs) but you can also drop back to improvised stuff if you like to work that way. If you are thinking of improvising, you should note that you can drop an image into the campaign images folder while the game is running (using windows explorer) and it will be available from within the game. You can also use the built-in drawings facility (create a new drawing from Maps and Images) and sketch out something like you do on a whiteboard for your players. Drawing tools are a bit primitive and are only monochrome.

Finally, for improvised material it is sometimes useful to have a few NPCs and maps created in advance, which you can bring into play.

Hope some of that helps!

Foen

[Frobozz]

Yea, I'm planning on making or downloading, etc some generic locations, encounters, etc. The drawing feature is nice. I discovered that today. Is there a way to make the drawing tool snap to grid? I could probably swipe one of my wife's pensketch tablets for that too. :D

That would be a great tool though for future versions. Some more advanced drawing tools. Just a "draw to grid", maybe a "stamp shape" that would stamp in some simple geometric shapes to represent obstacles and a color picker; even if it only had a short list of primary colors.

Can anyone recommend a good mapping program that can do caves and dungeons well to a grid? Bonus if it can make a map in 1st edition game module non-photo blue with the old AD&D mapping symbols. :)

[Doswelk]

Can anyone recommend a good mapping program that can do caves and dungeons well to a grid? Bonus if it can make a map in 1st edition game module non-photo blue with the old AD&D mapping symbols. :)

The two main ones are Dundjinni and CC3, this thread (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11708) goes into great detail about each.

As for the blue dungeons how about these (https://sub.profantasy.com/2007/december07.html) though to get that you would need to buy CC3,DD3 and Annual 1 not cheap but if you can get over the learning curve (I'm haven't yet but I'm hoping to get there!) is an amazing product.

[Spyke]

As for the blue dungeons how about these (https://sub.profantasy.com/2007/december07.html) though to get that you would need to buy CC3,DD3 and Annual 1 not cheap but if you can get over the learning curve (I'm haven't yet but I'm hoping to get there!) is an amazing product.
Ninja'd. I was about to suggest the same thing.

However, I think the Annuals are designed to work with just the main CC3 program, so I suspect you can get the Old Skool look from the Annual template without needing DD3.

Having said that, if Dungeons are your thing then DD3 adds a lot of power generally if you can afford it.

Spyke

[Spyke]

Having said that, if I'm right, and the Annuals only require CC3, then your Old Skool fantasy gamer could do very well with just CC3 and Annual 1, as the John Speed city template (https://sub.profantasy.com/2007/february07.html) is great for towns and villages and the Sarah Root template (https://sub.profantasy.com/2007/april07.html) gives you a good look and feel for your overland mapping.

Spyke

[Frobozz]

Naw, money isn't a problem. I'm an engineer, I can afford it. :)

Yea, I saw Dundjinni and I've been told the programming on that thing is amateur at best requiring some specific OS and specific version of Java, yadda yadda. I tend to stay far away from software like that. It's also no longer under active development either; but everyone says it's certainly simple.

CC3 looks like some of the CAD packages I've used, and I don't know if that's a good or bad thing. I'm just a bit foggy on what DD3 really gives me over just CC3 and what this "Annual" adds to the table.

[Griogre]

If you are in a hurry on the cave maps here's pretty good cave generator with *blue* background. :) https://axiscity.hexamon.net/users/isomage/cavegen/

Also nobody has said it but if you make your own maps you are generally better off not having a grid on the map so you can use FG's grid.

[Frobozz]

Really? I'd figure you'd want the grid on the map so you can quickly and easilly size FG2's grid to match it. Otherwise, aren't you just guessing at your scaling?

[Foen]

I'd figure you'd want the grid on the map so you can quickly and easilly size FG2's grid to match it.

I tend to include a single square away from the main areas of the dungeon, that I use as a template for the FG grid (which then covers the rest of the map). The FG grid is then the right size for the dungeon without clashing with anything in the source image. I attach an example below.

Foen

[Griogre]

You don't want the grid on the map because it often is not trivial to match the grids.

The first problem is FG's grid can be only set to integer numbers. If you are careful you can make sure the map image's grid is integer but most maps are manipulated to get the file size down which often causes any grid on the map to "drift out of true" either through dittering or interpolation.

Thus if a map has a grid on it you should usually just use the grid on the map without using the FG grid on top because it's a pain to get the grids to match except in a very local area. This works ok, but since the FG grid gives you shading on reach, snap to grid and other things depending on the ruleset normally you would rather used the FG one.

Edit: Foen's idea is a good one and I use it myself sometimes.

[Spyke]

I'm just a bit foggy on what DD3 really gives me over just CC3 and what this "Annual" adds to the table.
DD3 provides lots more dungeon-specific symbols and map templates set up at typical scales for dungeons, along with some dedicated macros (tools) for laying out dungeon rooms and corridors.

The Annual's utterly brilliant. It's a monthly set of templates, macros & graphics that comes with a pdf explaining how to use them to recreate a particular style of map. Take a look at the Annual pages (https://www.profantasy.com/products/sub.asp) on ProFantasy's website to see the range of things that have been published so far.

Spyke

[Kalan]

The addons for CC3 basically just add more specialized tools and content for each of the different "types" of maps you can make in CC3 - DD3 is dungeon based, CD3 is for designing cities, the symbol packs basically add more things you can put on maps...that kind of thing.

If you don't want to bother with the addons, definitely go for the annuals, which add a LOT of high quality, good content. IIRC, one of the annuals also has full blown video tutorials for overland mapping.

[Frobozz]

Huh, well, you've pretty much convinced me then. :) I like the reference square as well. That's a nice touch. Yea, it does make a lot of sense now that you mention it. Ok, so is the Annual a subscription, and the Vol1,2 and 3 the collection of past years stuff?

[Kalan]

Huh, well, you've pretty much convinced me then. :) I like the reference square as well. That's a nice touch. Yea, it does make a lot of sense now that you mention it. Ok, so is the Annual a subscription, and the Vol1,2 and 3 the collection of past years stuff?

You got it bang on - Vol 1, 2 and 3 are the Annuals from the past year. While I can't comment on Vol 3, Vol 1 and 2 have a LOT of useful content for general mapping uses (and if I recall, if you only get the core CC3 program, most of these annual files add in the tools you need to make use of them, even if the content is for "DD3" or whatever)