Campaign Cartographer OR Dundjinni?

[i101]

Hello folks,
I am looking for a Software that can help me to create nice Dungeons and City Maps.. I 've been searching and came to two Programms; Campaign Cartographer and Dundjinni. Campaign Cartographer has a few nice Tutorials on YouTube, but without the Addons: Dungeon Designer 3 and City Designer 3 its not usable for my purposes. CC3 + Addons cost 85.85 GB Pound! Hell yeah, youve read correct. 85 GB Pound.. Pardon my language, but this sucks a§§!
Dundjinni on the other side costs only 39,95 US Dollar. But there are no Tutorials on YouTube..

So, any tips on those Programms would be nice.

I know that some of you Guys n Girls make your Maps with Photoshop. And to be honest I would rather build my OWN maps then dependening on some 3rd Software. But I know this aint no klick and drop..
I have basic skills of using Photoshop, but scratch building a Dungeon or a small Town Block by my own is a little bit too much. Input is needed in form of Tutorials. I just found this lovley DM Newbie Block with a nice Tut on creating ur own Dungeon Map. Great Stuff.

If anyone has similar Tips or Tutorials, feel free to post them here.

Cheers.

[tdewitt274]

It doesn't look like you're looking for additional suggestions, but there is Fractal Mapper (https://nbos.com/). It's kind of like CC, but considerably cheaper ($35 download, $40 CD). I picked it up a long time ago, but never really messed with it.

They have a code download section for use in the program.

However, no tutorials online. I think there was a "user guide" PDF, but don't quote me.

[Sigurd]

Given the two choices Campaign Cartographer is being developed and I understand Dundjinni is not.

I would investigate Inkskape, Paint.Net and The Gimp. They're not as specialized for gaming but they are free.


Sigurd

[Doswelk]

I have both (and are equally incapable of using either very well!).

Dundjinni is simpler to use (there is a pdf tutorial on the website).

CC3/DD3/CD3 is much more complex and I am sure more powerful but as I say I can barely knock up a basic map!

If you have any skills artistically (again something I do not!) Gimp/Paint.Net etc. are more than capable (I found a great gimp conversion of a Photoshop tutorial on making dungeons some time ago).

On the "more apps" front assuming you play D&D4e (I do not) and have a DDI subscription (again not me) isn't there some tool that allows you to make maps online using electronic versions of the dungeon tiles?

[Kalan]

Having never used Dundjinni I can't comment on it.

But as a user of CC3, you can make some pretty phenomenal maps...once you get used to how things work in the program. There are a number of awesome tutorials available for the program, not to mention phenomenal support from the entire CC3 community.

It is however not cheap...

[i101]

On the "more apps" front assuming you play D&D4e (I do not) and have a DDI subscription (again not me) isn't there some tool that allows you to make maps online using electronic versions of the dungeon tiles?
Actually I am playing WFRP, and from time to time even Champions of the Old World need Maps ;).

Thank you all for your comments. Looks like CC3 is the more powerful Programm, but the 90 GB Pound still suck. I have to think about this investment.
Like I mentioned before my skills in Photoshop are very basic, and all I need is from time to time some small but nice looking Maps of buildings and dungeons.
Maybe I should just practise more.

[Kalan]

Actually I am playing WFRP, and from time to time even Champions of the Old World need Maps ;).

Thank you all for your comments. Looks like CC3 is the more powerful Programm, but the 90 GB Pound still suck. I have to think about this investment.
Like I mentioned before my skills in Photoshop are very basic, and all I need is from time to time some small but nice looking Maps of buildings and dungeons.
Maybe I should just practise more.

Or you can contact members of the community for such things and save yourself some time :)

If you provide a description of what you need, I may be able to help you (and give myself some more practice in using CC3).

Fire me a PM with details and I'll see what we can do :)

[i101]

Thank you Kalan! :) I am gonna keep your offer in mind.
Again, thanks and cheers.

[tdewitt274]

As mentioned before, Inkscape (https://www.inkscape.org) is vector based. I'd go with The GIMP if you're going to go the raster image way, as it's free.

[Rienen]

For quick knock-out maps I've been using the free Dungeon Crafter 1.4 (I didn't like 3.0)

It's tile-based, so even someone as inept as I am at graphics can knock out a map rather quickly and export it for use in Fantasy Grounds.

Just a warning. Last time I looked, the main website had been taken over by someone who tries to infect every computer going to it with a virus, so I had to do a search for 1.4 (and tile-sets) off google.

If anyone is interested, send me a PM and I'll email you the program.

[mr_h]

I've enjoyed using Dundjinni cause it was so easy (aside from having to hunt down all the graphic files you might need for a project). I'm sad to hear that it's no longer in development:(

I need something good for my World War II maps too, so I might have to check out CC3.

[Veldehar]

Dundjinni never impressed me, while CC3 has a learning curve, it is well worth the hassle. I can whip out basic maps mighty fast these days, and given a while make them pretty good. Aesthetically I need work, mainly because I map, then stop mapping for a few months, and forget what I learned, LOL. I was frustrated with it a couple years back, but after I did some blueprint work in a full cad program, that actually taught me an awful lot about the nuts and bolts of how the mechanics work, even if it wasn't fastcad, which I think CC3 is based on. And well, I love Fractal Terrains for my world. So, I'm hooked on ProFantasy programs for mapping. Gimp and if I ever get good, Bryce 6 for additional touchups.

Veldehar

[i101]

I just bought me a copy of Dundjinni and found a nice PDF walktrough with the majority of Dundjinni's basic mapping commands. Works like a charme, but unfortunately mr_h is right.. The first thing I missed where more graphis. I am gonna post future results here, if they should be good ;).

Too bad that CC3 inc. addons is that expenisve, it would have been my first choice.

[Griogre]

CC3 is the top end program. It is vector based, has plenty of specialized add-ons and extremely powerful. It's not uncommon to see photoshop enhanced CC3 maps in RPG books. But you pay for that power and versatility with a steep learning curve (unless you are already familiar with CAD programs) and a high cost. On the other hand they have a wonderful community and tons of tutorials.

Dundjinni makes pretty maps. I could never quite get myself to buy it, though. It seems functional enough and also has a very good community, but I always came to the conclusion it was the Catch 22 of mappers for RPGs. Its strength is the great detail. But in an rpg game the players will put a high importance those type of map details and try to interact with them. This is great when you want them to do that and horrible when you don’t because you either have to tell them out of character to drop it and ruin the immersion or waste time on making something up.

I usually use tile mappers when I make maps because they are fast and easy to use. I use to be a level designer and made maps for work, and while I love maps - I couldn’t bear to spend a lot of time on a gaming map, it was too much like work. :p

I also still use Dungeon Crafter 1.4.1 some. Another free mapper is Dungeon Forge. There are a number of tile mappers including a very simple one on WotC’s site (they have a group with a better version).

[Valarian]

I've been with Campaign Cartographer since the CC-DOS days and have never felt the need for anything else. It's expensive compared to the others, but I think you get what you pay for. A light-weight semi-professional CAD package which, with time and patience, can give even the worst of artists (me) the ability to produce something that looks good. For newcomers, especially ones familiar with art-graphics packages like GIMP and Photoshop, CC3 has a huge learning curve. I've been in the fortunate position to only have to learn the new stuff as it's come in.

[Answulf]

I own both and use both. I think for most people, Dundjinni is the right choice - easy to use and you can make really nice looking maps with it fairly quickly. It doesn't make overland maps very well though. While a few years ago it was almost a no-brainer, now it is a 'riskier' purchase because they have stopped working on it. The last software update was from Spring of '08. So the software is officially kind of dying out, but there is still a large active user base on their website.

CC3 is the best tool on the market, but only worth it if you are going to be making a ton of maps or you have money burning a hole in your pocket.

[Porpoise]

I'll second that Campaign Cartographer is the better of the two. Personally, I didn't find that the learning curve was all that tremendous, especially if you follow a video tutorial for your first map. It's price tag is hefty, but in my opinion worth it -- the annuals in particular are a worthwhile investment as they dramatically increase the different styles and flavors of maps that you can make, more (in my opinion) than even the add-ons like Dungeon Designer 3 or City Designer 3 (although those are also worthwhile). It's also fun.

[philth]

I do CAD drawings for a living so to me CC3 really just clicked more than Dundjinni, now I'm just waiting to win the lottery so I can afford it....

[dugong]

I'll second that Campaign Cartographer is the better of the two. Personally, I didn't find that the learning curve was all that tremendous, especially if you follow a video tutorial for your first map. It's price tag is hefty, but in my opinion worth it -- the annuals in particular are a worthwhile investment as they dramatically increase the different styles and flavors of maps that you can make, more (in my opinion) than even the add-ons like Dungeon Designer 3 or City Designer 3 (although those are also worthwhile). It's also fun.

CC is better,but if you have some free time, search through Djinni forums. Great free stuff,tutorials. With that in fact you dont need a CC or Djinni. Just a users free stuff,and gimp. Or any free 2d soft. With a little fantasy in mind and free stuff from djinni forum you have a nice maps for 1/2 year campaign maded (?)in one week

[mac40k]

I bought Dundjinni because I couldn't stomach the cost or learning curve for CC. I also sprung for the expansion packs that have more graphics and spent a lot of time in the forums grabbing anything that looked like it might be useful. There's a fan created graphics pack that has symbols for creating city and overland maps and an entire forum for sci fi appropriate art, however the majority of graphics available are for use in creating fantasy-based floor plans. I was able to crank out some decent maps with it and used it for two campaigns (D&D4 and SWEX).

I'm okay with it not getting updates, since it already does everything it needs to. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The only concern is when it gets to the point where my OS upgrade won't run it anymore, there won't be a newer compatible version. Still, I'm running it on Vista 64-bit now, so as long as MS provides backwards compatibility, it should be awhile before I have to worry about it.

It's a great program and well worth the investment for creating battle maps. Much more flexible than any tile set. For table top use it runs through ink/toner like crazy, so it's not a very economical solution. For FG it should be just fine. It's still more work than I personally want to do for what is essentially one time use throw away battle maps. I'm currently running a tabletop game that doesn't use battle maps, so I haven't had to mess with it in awhile. If I ran a table top game again that required battle maps, I'd go back to my dry erase flip mats. For something in FG, I'd look for maps that I could re-purpose for most things and only invest the time and energy to create major scene maps with Dundjinni. However, if you have the time and desire to create all original maps, Dundjinni will get the job done.

[Oberoten]

I bought Dundjinni because I couldn't stomach the cost or learning curve for CC. I also sprung for the expansion packs that have more graphics and spent a lot of time in the forums grabbing anything that looked like it might be useful. There's a fan created graphics pack that has symbols for creating city and overland maps and an entire forum for sci fi appropriate art, however the majority of graphics available are for use in creating fantasy-based floor plans. I was able to crank out some decent maps with it and used it for two campaigns (D&D4 and SWEX).

I'm okay with it not getting updates, since it already does everything it needs to. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The only concern is when it gets to the point where my OS upgrade won't run it anymore, there won't be a newer compatible version. Still, I'm running it on Vista 64-bit now, so as long as MS provides backwards compatibility, it should be awhile before I have to worry about it.

It's a great program and well worth the investment for creating battle maps. Much more flexible than any tile set. For table top use it runs through ink/toner like crazy, so it's not a very economical solution. For FG it should be just fine. It's still more work than I personally want to do for what is essentially one time use throw away battle maps. I'm currently running a tabletop game that doesn't use battle maps, so I haven't had to mess with it in awhile. If I ran a table top game again that required battle maps, I'd go back to my dry erase flip mats. For something in FG, I'd look for maps that I could re-purpose for most things and only invest the time and energy to create major scene maps with Dundjinni. However, if you have the time and desire to create all original maps, Dundjinni will get the job done.

It works fine under Windows 7 64-bit. :)

- Obe

[drahkar]

Jsut as a note. This site has some great information for making maps, including some focusing around CC3: https://forum.cartographersguild.com/

This post in particular has been interesting reading:
https://forum.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?4276-Quickstart-Guide-to-Fantasy-Mapping

[Spyke]

I bought Dundjinni because I couldn't stomach the cost or learning curve for CC.
It's worth pointing out here that you don't need all the additional CC3 modules (although they're very nice to have). So the price comparison should be between the main CC3 program and Dundjinni, i.e. $45 vs $40.

You can produce high quality cities and dungeons as well as overland maps with the main CC3 application. The dedicated city and dungeon designers just give you more macros, templates and graphics (and, of course, increase the learning curve).

Spyke

[RobP]

It's worth pointing out here that you don't need all the additional CC3 modules (although they're very nice to have). So the price comparison should be between the main CC3 program and Dundjinni, i.e. $45 vs $40.

You can produce high quality cities and dungeons as well as overland maps with the main CC3 application. The dedicated city and dungeon designers just give you more macros, templates and graphics (and, of course, increase the learning curve).

Spyke

Also with CC3 one can use the awesome free CSUAC library asused with Dunjinni, which puts a lot of CC3's additional modules firmly in the optional camp.

[Spyke]

Also with CC3 one can use the awesome free CSUAC library asused with Dunjinni, which puts a lot of CC3's additional modules firmly in the optional camp.
Absolutely. The user-created free content that makes Dundjinni so attractive can also be used with CC3, so in effect CC3 has it's own power plus Dundjinni's perceived advantages. The issue with CC3 is, as noted throughout this thread, the longer learning curve.

Spyke

[mr_h]

The only problem I've had with most map makers is the lack of Non-fantasy art. Dundjinni's user created content has helped me on that, to some extent, but it's hit and miss. I haven't used CC3 so I don't know what else they have.

My latest attempt was just to scribble a map on paper, color it in with crayons or colored pencils, and go from there :b (This is an example (https://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7590/crayonmaptest.png), using ArtRage digital crayons because I don't have real crayons at work).

[Spyke]

CC3's City Designer comes with buildings from a range of periods, and there's an additional Modern Symbols pack. The Cosmographer Pro add-in provides additional tools for SF mapping (particularly starships and star maps).

If you've got the funds then CC3 also has a monthly Annual which has had some excellent new templates for Modern mapping, such as modern city maps and regional maps showing army dispositions.

Spyke

[glitch_76]

you know i just keep it simple draw it on paper ink it scan it color it in photoshop or you can use any basic paint program there you go easy does it.

[Spyke]

you know i just keep it simple draw it on paper ink it scan it color it in photoshop or you can use any basic paint program there you go easy does it.
Ah, but it's when you want to rub it out again that CC3 or Dundjinni come into their own. ;)

Spyke

[ShaneB]

If you want Original D&D style world maps (hex maps) try giving HexGIMP (https://axiscity.hexamon.net/users/isomage/gimp/hexgimp/) a try :)

You will need to download and install GIMP first