resizing tokens in combat tracker

[gmkieran]

Ran into something odd last week and wondered if anyone else has hit this and/or knows what causes it. I'm running a 4e_JPG campaign and we hit a combat that hadn't been planned for. When I started setting up the CT and dragging NPCs onto my map, I discovered that my tokens were not scaled to the same size, being from different sources. Having read a great deal on the boards about being able to scale individual tokens in the CT, I started fiddling with trying to down-scale my NPCs to a suitable size so I could re-lock my scale and keep playing. When mousing over the NPC tokens (with one exception) I did not get the scaling value bubble. However, when mousing over one of my PC tokens (or the PC token I'm using for my NPC representative), I was able to scale it as expected. I thought it might have something to do with where the tokens reside, like maybe I can't re-size the ones I exported into the game module, but I can resize those in the master tokens folder. Testing didn't seem to bear that out, though. So, why can I scale some of my tokens in CT and not others? (and yes, i'm going to have to go in and re-scale all my various tokens to a single scale at some point, but not today, thanks! ;) )

[Griogre]

It *should* have worked. However you can't scale if the token in on the tracker but has not been placed on the map or if the link between the map token and the tracker has been broken.

[gmkieran]

Further, unfortunate, developments. Went to play last night and was sadly disappointed. One, FG had lost the adjustments I made earlier in the week to my token scaling. My NPCs were back to being twice the size of my PCs. Two, I could not scale ANY token in the CT, even when I removed tokens from the map and re-populated them from the CT to re-establish that connection in case it had been broken. Apparently, whether or not I have players logged into the session affects my ability to scale in the CT. Any thoughts? Thanks!!!

[Griogre]

Scaling only lasts per session (which is a good reason to get your tokens re-scaled).

I can't reproduce your problem. Any tokens I have on the map that are linked to the tracker will scale with or with a player connected. The only tokens that will not scale for me are ones on the tracker but not on a map. The easiest way to tell if a token is linked is to put your mouse over them and see if the name appears in a tool tip and the reach is displayed as a grey sqaure around the token.

What version of the 4E ruleset are you using?

[gmkieran]

well, by that guide the tokens were definitely all linked. range and selection worked normally, but no scaling. nice to know that losing the scaling from one session to the next was to be expected, at least. got the latest version from JPG about 3 weeks ago (to solve some other issues I'd been having). I think I'll spend the weekend working on re-scaling my token sets to be consistent, but I'm going to guess that that won't affect the tokens I exported into my game module; I assume their sizes are fixed in the .xml code?

thanks for the info! as always, very much appreciated!

[Griogre]

If you drag and drop the tokens on the export screen the token's file is actually included in the module - so I think you would need to re-drag and drop your rescaled tokens with the same file name so the old tokens would be replaced. I'm not sure of that since I rarely attach tokens to modules.

How did you attach you tokens to the module?

[gmkieran]

That is, in fact, how I did it - dragging the tokens into the export screen before exporting the module. I didn't realize leaving them out was an option. I may try fiddling with the exported tokens or I may just file it away for future reference and not worry about this module. I've already re-created it once, not sure it's worth it to do it again.

[Tenian]

The module file is just a ZIP file.

You can use tools like WinRar to "Open With..." This will show you the structure of the module without unzipping it. You could then locate the offending tokens and just drag resized versions (with the same name) over them. This will replace them.

Next time you open the module in FGII it should use the new token files.

[gmkieran]

excellent information! thank you very much!!!

[RebRob]

Here's a suggestion from a brand New FG user, for what it's worth.

I had the same issue, I was using maps and monster tokens that were 72x72, and dragging the players' from either the Combat Tracker, character sheet, etc. were teeny tiny.

So, I created a Player Token Bag, using my players' character portraits in the process with RP Token Tool (keeping their frames the same gold color, monsters as red), sized to 72x72.

When prepping my maps, I pre-place their tokens on the map off to the side, then the players position accordingly in combat. It's an extra prep step for me, but for them it's easy breezy.

Hope this helps!

[gmkieran]

Thanks, RebRob, and welcome to FG! I have a separate token bag for my PC's, but up to now haven't kept different scales of their icons (I was counting on the ability to re-scale in the CT to compensate for instances where I had scale discrepancies). I may have to do that if I can't figure out why I can't scale icons in the CT when my players are logged in (I still have no trouble doing so when it's just me in the session).

[RebRob]

Thanks, RebRob, and welcome to FG! I have a separate token bag for my PC's, but up to now haven't kept different scales of their icons (I was counting on the ability to re-scale in the CT to compensate for instances where I had scale discrepancies). I may have to do that if I can't figure out why I can't scale icons in the CT when my players are logged in (I still have no trouble doing so when it's just me in the session).

Thanks, GM!

What would be really great (though not feasible) would be to have the option to individually resize tokens vs. just globally for a map.

[gmkieran]

I don't know .xml, so maybe it wouldn't be feasible, but it seems to me like it would be easier. One less level of association necessary. FG is already supposedly storing the scale of the token in reference to the map and the token (though I've been having problems with that, too). I don't see why it couldn't simply store that information only in relation to the token - perhaps the map is needed for reference?

what I really want to know is why FG forgets the token scaling to my maps every other time I log in to a campaign. I've now had to re-scale my tokens to fit my maps 7 times and I don't *do* anything to the campaign between sessions. next week the maps will be fine (probably) - the week after, I'll have to re-scale the tokens again. Anyone know what's happening?

[Moon Wizard]

gmkiernan,

Perhaps you can give me a step-by-step walkthrough to recreate the scenario you are seeing?

In my games, I have all my tokens pre-sized to 70x70 for Medium creatures; but my maps are variable sizes. When I open a map for the first time; I set up the grid, drop a medium token on the map, zoom until the token is the right size within a single square, then right-click to lock the token scale on the map. From that point on, the map-wide token scale is remembered across sessions for me.

Thanks,
JPG

[gmkieran]

moon_wizard,

what I have done is follow Xorn's tutorial for creating and exporting a game module, including maps and tokens. I then open that module from my campaign and, again following one of Xorn's tutorials, set a grid for each of my maps (which are also variable in size, like yours) and then drag one of my PC tokens to that map and scale the token until it matches the grid and then lock the scale. It has been explained to me previously that setting the map scale in the game module prior to exporting does not carry over into the campaign when that module is opened. When I have completed scaling, I make sure to save the campaign before closing out. If I open the campaign again and check the scaling, it's fine. However, if I close FG (saving again on my way out) and then open the campaign for a third time, the scaling is gone and I have to re-do all of it. Practical result: my maps are correctly scaled for 1 game session in 3.

Thanks!

[gmkieran]

I realize this thread has been cold a while, so I may have to start a new one, but I figured I'd post here, first. I'm still having the issue with re-scaling individual tokens in the CT when I have players connected. It works fine when it's just me, even when I've opened the exact same map and CT I had open when I had players connected. I've tested and re-tested the tokens being tied to their counterparts on the map; everything works, except my ability to scale tokens (targeting, damage, effects, etc all work). Any thoughts on why having players connected would prevent scaling in the CT?

[Zeus]

gmkieren - Is this the same campaign that was affected with the crashing issue you had earlier in the year. Is this campaign using the CT Hot patch JPG provided last month that I packaged into an extension for you?

If so, have you tried running a small test campaign with the hot patch extension disabled? If not, give that a go and let us know if the problem still persists.

[gmkieran]

Hey, DrZ! Yes and yes, however, the CT scaling issue predates the hot patch. I'll see if I can get a couple players to help me test it tomorrow, though, just to be sure. I'll let you know what we find out!

Ok, one of my players was able to jump on this evening. We discovered a couple of interesting things. I can scale individual tokens in the CT with this particular player connected in both a test campaign (without the hot patch running) and my main campaign (with the hot patch). I can still scale in the patched campaign with this player and a local-host connection. That would seem to indicate that the patch is not the source of the problem. Is it possible that one of my players has a client-side setting that is preventing/affecting this functionality? It only seems to fail when I have the entire party connected, but I haven't tried connecting with each player individually to see if it breaks for a specific one (unfortunately, I'm not sure I would be able to make such a test - we can barely seem to get together once a week, let alone for testing). Anyway, that's what I found out so far.

[gmkieran]

ok, so tested again tonight with 3 of my 5 players and a local host sign-in. no problems in the main campaign scaling tokens. either it's something with one of my 2 players' machines that weren't on tonight or something about having 5 external connections. Or it works just fine except when I need it to (the way my luck's been running with things electric, entirely likely).

[gmkieran]

have narrowed this down to being an effect of having one particular player connected. He happens to be the one with the newest, beefiest machine. Don't have system specs or FG version info, yet, but working on it. Will post more when I have that.

[Moon Wizard]

Please check what version of FG he is running relative to the host. If you are running the same version, can you have him try deleting the cache on his side, and reconnecting to see if that clears it up.

Otherwise, see if you can get his cache file to send to [email protected].

Thanks,
JPG

[gmkieran]

thanks, JPG! We'll try it and see what happens. He is running 2.6.5, same as my host. If it matters, his system is an AMD Athalon III quad processor with 8Gb of RAM running Windows 7 and possibly Norton in the background.

[gmkieran]

ok, apparently previous thoughts on the cause of the issue were mis-guided. Last night I was unable to adjust icons in the CT with no clients logged on. I can't wrap my brain around the inconsistency of this problem.

[Moon Wizard]

Do you have the combat tracker and the map open at the same time when trying to adjust? I assume so, just want to make sure.

Have you tried holding the CTRL key while scaling the tokens in the combat tracker? One of the options makes it so that the scroll wheel only works for modifying fields while holding the CTRL key.

I'm a bit at a loss on this one, since the conditions for the problem seem to be changing. Can you walk me through the steps to see the issue in a new campaign? Maybe that will help.

Thanks,
JPG

[gmkieran]

Yes, I have both CT and map open while adjusting (did that to make sure that the tokens were properly connected, so brought up encounter, populated CT, brought up CT and map then transferred tokens from CT to map).

I have tried both with and without the CTRL engaged - no difference. One note, I use a Kensington track ball with a scroll collar (supposedly mapped the same as the scroll wheel on a 3 button mouse), but the collar usually functions correctly (both with the CT scaling when it works and other places).

I haven't been able to consistently repeat the issue, either, so no, not really. Mostly it seems to happen when I will need to scale tokens to make things look right during a game session and doesn't happen any other time. :(

I caught this post in another thread and thought it might apply, "The only drawback with my setup (also with a similar setup in windows is that the mouse wheel will not scroll numberfields and the like while on the second monitor. It may have something to do with DirectX." ~RiverRat

I also use a 2 monitor setup, so if DirectX might interfere with the scroll wheel functionality in that case, that might be the source of the problem.

thanks again for all your help!

[Griogre]

You might also try a session with a mouse and see if it's your trackball. Check to see if you can find any newer drivers for the trackball if it has any too.

[gmkieran]

Yeah, I'd hoped it was just the TB, but the mouse had exactly the same problems (with exactly the same lack of consistency). Kensington's site says I have the latest 'n' greatest in drivers for this model.

[Moon Wizard]

It sounds like this is probably related to the dual monitor setup. From my searches online, it seems that this problem happens to many applications in a dual monitor setup.

* Are you running FG across both screens? Or completely on one screen?
* If running across screens, does it make a difference as to which screen the scroll wheel is not working on?
* If completely on one screen, does it make a difference whether you are using FG on primary vs. secondary monitor?

Also, I saw a thread where someone said that they had a similar issue, and they were able to fix it by making sure that the primary monitor configured for Windows was also plugged into the monitor 1 port on their video card.

Cheers,
JPG

[Zeus]

When I first started using FGII a year ago and first moved to a dual monitor setup I had no end of difficulty with similar issues which caused loss of focus on the 2nd screen. This resulted in loss of scroll wheel and keyboard input for the 2nd screen with me having to constantly re-focus FGII with the Alt-Tab key to workaround it.

I then found a post here somewhere which suggested 2 things:

i) switching my mouse drivers for the standard generic MS one
ii) reversing the order of the screens for dual monitor configuration

The first suggestion made no difference in my case although I believe it has helped others in the past. The second suggestion however is what did the trick for me.

When I first setup my dual monitor config, the new screen was automatically placed to the right of my primary display and the desktop stretched from left to right, this seemed to cause issues for FGII in my configuration. As soon as I reversed the screen order and placed the extended screen to the left of my primary screen, all the symptomatic issues disappeared.

Not sure if will help but its a quick test to perform.

[gmkieran]

moon_wizard - I generally run across both screens, in order to have enough room to have all the things open I need. it doesn't seem to make a difference which screen I'm on, though I'm not sure I've tried moving the CT from one to the other after having a problem. during the test I ran (before it occurred that it might be the dual monitors causing the problem) I ran on only one monitor, which may be why it worked. I usually have the map and CT on separate monitors.

DrZ - I'll check my screens when I get home. Pretty sure my primary is right-hand and secondary is left-hand (because it confuses me to move away from the monitor I want to reach to get to it).

thanks, guys!

[gmkieran]

ran some test cases before we play tonight - VERY interesting results. first, my monitors are set up 1 -> 2. FG initiates on monitor 2. as long as the CT is on monitor 2, scaling works normally. as soon as I move the CT to monitor 1, it ceases to function. doesn't matter where the map is, either when initially populating or post-population. all that seems to matter is that the CT is on the right-hand (secondary) monitory. (I have not tried DrZ's suggestion of switching the 2, because I find that arrangement disconcerting.) I also noticed that nothing using the scroll-wheel works in the left-hand (primary) monitor when FG is expanded across both. Everything works normally if FG is maximized in the left monitor (it also didn't seem to matter if I expanded from secondary to primary or vice versa). So, for the moment, I have to remember to keep everything I need to scroll in the right half of FG. Let me know what other information I can provide to help you figure out how to correct this behavior.

Another somewhat disturbing and possibly related display behavior - the CT gets lost if you have it in the right half of a dual monitor setup and then move the right border over to the left monitor; the CT window doesn't move with that border, but things move when you move the left border. The CT also remembers its (off-screen) position if you close and re-open the program, so that the only way to get it back is to expand the left border as far as possible, move the CT into a position on the left side of the window and then re-size again.

Thanks!!!