Community Tutorial?

[tdewitt274]

This is kind of a wild idea, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Just gauging interest at this point.

I've been having troubles grasping the concepts of the Foundation ruleset. I've taken a few stabs at it and it doesn't seem to click yet. I was wondering if anyone would like to build a "Community Tutorial" of the Foundation ruleset?

Of course, this would depend on the graces of the folks at Fantasy Grounds.

The plan would be to set up a Forum or Google Wave to discuss individual files of the Foundation rulset. Brainstorming and questions could be asked within the document. In the end, a tutorial PDF could be created to show people how to manipulate the existing features, best practices, etc.

I believe the Forum would be the most portable, but the Wave would be the most flexible. In any event, a PDF would be created in the end for everyone to have available.

So, what do you think?

[Sigurd]

I would definitely be interested in the outcome of such an experiment.


I think what we really need however is a clear outline of what the future of foundation is and how it fits into the community use plan. Some sort of chat session between interested parties would be a very good idea.


Sigurd

[tdewitt274]

I think what we really need however is a clear outline of what the future of foundation is and how it fits into the community use plan.


Good point. While the Foundation is pretty generic, I believe that it is occasionally updated. So, it might be a good idea to "package" a basic ruleset or find one that may exist.

I suggested Foundation because it is officially supported by FG. However, a "bare bones" version fully stripped may be more appropriate. Other complex rulesets could be documented in this way.



Some sort of chat session between interested parties would be a very good idea.


Also a good point. There are many things to discuss, such as the form the media will take, how the output is distributed, and what should/shouldn't be included.

Another distribution method that occurred to me could be a Module (https://oberoten.dyndns.org/fgwiki/index.php/Category:Modules). This way it can also be within FG for users.

[drahkar]

I've started up a wiki that I'm using to document all the functions and custom elements/handlers/etc in the foundation set for quick reference. I'm still getting the basic layout done and the core functions transfered into it, but my thought was to post a link here so people could add the details usage information along with examples as they learn them.

This is a secondary work I'm doing while I work on a ruleset. But I'm hoping it'll end up being something people can use.

[tdewitt274]

I've started up a wiki that I'm using to document all the functions and custom elements/handlers/etc in the foundation set for quick reference. I'm still getting the basic layout done and the core functions transfered into it, but my thought was to post a link here so people could add the details usage information along with examples as they learn them.

This is a secondary work I'm doing while I work on a ruleset. But I'm hoping it'll end up being something people can use.

I was going to suggest a Wiki as well, but I'm not too familiar with them. I can see Pros and Cons, as with Forums and Waves.

I think, in the end, that it may be a fusion of two technologies. For example, a Wiki with direct links to forum posts. Not sure, but something to think about.

[drahkar]

I was going to suggest a Wiki as well, but I'm not too familiar with them. I can see Pros and Cons, as with Forums and Waves.

I think, in the end, that it may be a fusion of two technologies. For example, a Wiki with direct links to forum posts. Not sure, but something to think about.

That would be my recommendation. That's the power to the wiki. If there is more information on a specific thing in a forum post, anyone with an account can edit the page, add in the link and save it.

[tdewitt274]

Of note: Future of the 4E_JPG and D20_JPG rulesets (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11515)

[tdewitt274]

Just messing around with the format (https://todddewitt.com/fg/index.php/Main_Page). Mostly to get an idea of the way things should be formatted. Any suggestions are appreciated :)

drahkar, would you be interested in showing your work so far?

[drahkar]

Just messing around with the format (https://todddewitt.com/fg/index.php/Main_Page). Mostly to get an idea of the way things should be formatted. Any suggestions are appreciated :)

drahkar, would you be interested in showing your work so far?

Well, what I've started so far is over here at wikia (https://fg2.wikia.com/wiki/FGII_Ruleset_Coding_Wiki).

I have some initial layouts in place and I'm working on building out a template for easy inputting of code pages. The templates still need to be refined before it really ready for use. And I'd like to work out some navigation issues.

Unfortunately at the moment I've put it onto the back burner so I could get some serious work done on the AO ruleset. I might look back over to it next weekend.

[Foen]

While it is good to see this stuff being developed, you might want to talk to Oberoten and see if he can host it on the FG Wiki (https://oberoten.dyndns.org/fgwiki/index.php/Main_Page), as it would be really good to build a critical mass of knowledge if you want folks to visit/contribute.

As an aside, you might also want to take a look at my previous attempt (https://wiki.witheredlands.co.uk/anatomy.ashx) on a ruleset walkthrough, which was abandonned due to time pressures, but wasn't a bad start.

Foen

[drahkar]

I've looked over the anatomy site. Its a really good site. That isn't what I had in mind for what I was making. My idea was to have it be purely a reference site for the various functions that exist in the various rulesets.

The idea of having it all worked into Oberoten's site is an excellent one, though. I like the idea of having it all under one site, and his is the primary source.

I'll follow up on that.

[Bidmaron]

Foen, I wish you had kept going on that attempt. It was invaluable to me getting started on a ruleset. I wholeheartedly agree that any work should at least be linked through Oberoten's site. There needs to be a central repository for stuff, as the specialized efforts eventually seem to fizzle and lost to the internet black hole.

[tdewitt274]

I agree with the one site thing as well, it only makes sense.

It looks like Oberoten is using Dynamic DNS, so he should have control over the Wiki itself. I used an extention to come up with the code highlighting, and can provide instructions on how to set that up. I can also set up my XML (https://todddewitt.com/fg/index.php/Template:XMLFile) and Lua (https://todddewitt.com/fg/index.php/Template:XMLFile) Templates, but think there should be a little fine tuning to them first.

If Oberoten is open to the option, I think we should come up with a solid design before porting the setup over. As my approach works for me, it may not work for everyone, as Drahkar noted. Better to come up with a design that people will use.

[tdewitt274]

Foen, I wish you had kept going on that attempt. It was invaluable to me getting started on a ruleset. I wholeheartedly agree that any work should at least be linked through Oberoten's site. There needs to be a central repository for stuff, as the specialized efforts eventually seem to fizzle and lost to the internet black hole.

I cut my teeth on Foen's as well, a good high level overview. In general, the Rulesets I've looked at are low on any type of documentation. I think that if the code is documented, we can get more people to create rulsets.

I'd also want to make sure this is OK with the developers. I don't want to step on toes in the process. I may be overstepping my bounds with posting the whole code.

[drahkar]

I cut my teeth on Foen's as well, a good high level overview. In general, the Rulesets I've looked at are low on any type of documentation. I think that if the code is documented, we can get more people to create rulsets.

I'd also want to make sure this is OK with the developers. I don't want to step on toes in the process. I may be overstepping my bounds with posting the whole code.

It wouldn't hurt to get their thoughts on it. I know they are working on a whole site revamp, so it might be a good idea to hear if any work is going to happen on the library section.

[tdewitt274]

Did a little more messing around.

Here's a copy of the Template:CodeFile (https://todddewitt.com/fg/index.php/Template:CodeFile) that I've been messing with. Here's an example of an XML File (https://todddewitt.com/fg/index.php/Base.xml) and Lua File (https://todddewitt.com/fg/index.php/Adventurelistshortcut.lua).

I've also made changes to the "Main Page" (https://todddewitt.com/fg/index.php) as a concept (subject to change).

All information can be ported to another Wiki as needed. The Syntax Higlighting (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi) extention is pretty nice. The CSS probably needs messing with, but the code is pretty solid after a little trial and error. It also supports highliting. For example, after the code is added to the Template, you can then modify the lines to highlight individual lines (highlight="5"), multiple lines (highlight="5,10") or sequential lines (highlight="5-10"). I think that you can do other combinations (highlight="5-10,22"), but haven't messed with it.

Edit: I've also sent an email to Doug regarding the concept.

[Oberoten]

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi

Is the syntax-highlight extension that is in fact in place on the FG-wiki.

The tags for activating it is :

<Source lang='lua'>


</Source>

Geshi's highlighting is a pretty solid one and works just as well with XML as LUA in the tag.

- Obe

[drahkar]

Obe? Can we start building out a section on the FG-Wiki for Code reference and tutorial?

[Oberoten]

Considering that is actually how I first thought the Wiki would be used? Yes. A thousand times yes. :)

- Obe

**Added**

In fact I think there is allready a few code-snippets on it. But I'll ad a new category to it for codesnippets.

- Obe

[Oberoten]

Oh we allready have a section like that check the sidebar and click scripts.

- Obe

[tdewitt274]

Considering that is actually how I first thought the Wiki would be used? Yes. A thousand times yes. :)

- Obe

**Added**

In fact I think there is allready a few code-snippets on it. But I'll ad a new category to it for codesnippets.

- Obe

Sounds great! :) I have a PM sent off to Doug to make sure everything is on the level. I think we should wait for the blessing from The Powers That Be before going forward.

[drahkar]

Ok! I've created a subsection under RuleSets on the FG-Wiki. A direct link is here: https://oberoten.dyndns.org/fgwiki/index.php/Ruleset_Code_Reference

I've tried to organize it in a way that makes sense. Native code, then other sections for RuleSet specific code and functions. I thought that would help people to find what they are lookng for.

[tdewitt274]

Ok! I've created a subsection under RuleSets on the FG-Wiki. A direct link is here: https://oberoten.dyndns.org/fgwiki/index.php/Ruleset_Code_Reference

I've tried to organize it in a way that makes sense. Native code, then other sections for RuleSet specific code and functions. I thought that would help people to find what they are lookng for.

I think the setup so far is fine.

However, I would suggest that only the Foundation and Native Code be documented at this time. Castles & Crusades, Rolemaster, Savage Worlds, and Call of Cthulhu are licensed. I don't know where the d20 code sits as it is purchased through the Online Store.

The others (d20_JPG, 4E_JPG) can be documented when the time comes. Especially since the fate of these rulesets are transition and still being sorted out.

[drahkar]

Good point. Though D20 is actually downloadable for free.

[ddavison]

Hey guys. I like the level of excitement here and it looks like this could shape up to be a great resource for future ruleset developers. For now, we'd like to limit code postings to the foundation and any other snippets we've already shared. I doubt that we would fully post the source of any commercial rulesets and we haven't fully decided how freely we will be exposing the intricacies of the other included but not currently public rulesets.

[drahkar]

Sounds good to me! I wasn't sure ao I just stuck them all in there.

[Foen]

Feel free to document the Base Ruleset - it includes some neat things not in the Foundation (such as P2P whispers, hidden rolls, group chat, chat window portraits etc), and is released under OGL.

Foen

[Foen]

Likewise my version (not PneumaPilot's without his permission) of the World of Darkness ruleset. It includes optional game line extensions and a neat auto-hiding right hand sidebar.

Foen

[tdewitt274]

Hey guys. I like the level of excitement here and it looks like this could shape up to be a great resource for future ruleset developers. For now, we'd like to limit code postings to the foundation and any other snippets we've already shared. I doubt that we would fully post the source of any commercial rulesets and we haven't fully decided how freely we will be exposing the intricacies of the other included but not currently public rulesets.

Thanks for the input Doug!

I think this will be good thing for everyone!

[tdewitt274]

I've ported the information that I had on my personal site to Oberoten's FG Wiki. I'll create pages for the remaining documents tomorrow.

Does anyone have a preference on how the code page should be laid out? I have a Template (https://oberoten.dyndns.org/fgwiki/index.php/Template:CodeFile) for the source files. I'm sure there could be more streamlining to the document. Suggestions are welcome!

Also, as a note, I think that any page created should include the Ruleset and the file name. For example, "Foundation base.xml" and "Foundation XML Files". This will avoid confusion when including links for other rulesets that are documented. You can always mask the name (ex, [[Foundation XML Files|XML Files]] will only show "XML Files" on the page).

[tdewitt274]

Here's (https://oberoten.dyndns.org/fgwiki/index.php/Foundation_adventure_story.xml#Describing_the_Code ) my first (partial) attempt at documenting the code. Still in the draft phase, and not entirely complete.

I'd like to see your comments on the layout of the "Describing the Code" section. Is the layout suitable? What would make it better? Is there anything you would add? Is it an accurate representation of the code (I'm kind of winging it while learning the code)?

Any feedback is appreciate!

EDIT: I decided to change up the Template:CodeFile (https://oberoten.dyndns.org/fgwiki/index.php/Template:CodeFile) so you don't have to scroll through all the code just to get to the guts of the entry. The references are now at the bottom of the code.

[tdewitt274]

I haven't had a lot of time to work on the documentation, I've been looking at the code locally to get a better idea of how things work.

I have made some changes (https://oberoten.dyndns.org/fgwiki/index.php/Special:RecentChanges) as I start to understand the code. My comments are mostly observations of how the code works as opposed to the "how it actually works". Feel free to take a look and make any modifications or clarifications.

I've also took to linking back to the FG website when referring to XML and Scripting references. As I start to understand the code better, I'd like to go back and put in examples of how the references work with maybe a few examples.

[tdewitt274]

I've been digging around in the code some more and thought I'd update this.

Foundation_desktopmanager.lua (https://oberoten.dyndns.org/fgwiki/index.php/Foundation_desktopmanager.lua)