ULTIMATE version of FG now available in the store.

[ddavison]

This is a double-post in case people are not following the floating license topic.

The ultimate license is now available from the store. You will need the new installer to use the ultimate license key. I am testing the waters with this and we will see how it impacts sales over the next several months. It may be for a limited time only if we determine that it is hurting sales long term. Either way, if you buy it now, it will be active even if we discontinue future sales of it in the store.

Along with this, your potential players will need to download the normal setup and check the box during the install which says "Install unregistered version for connecting with ULTIMATE licenses (check box and leave license field blank)."

The demo version is still a stand-alone install that is limited in overall functionality. Over time, we may merge this in with the unregistered license, but for now they should uninstall the demo version if present and then install the new unregistered version.

I am still planning to release a true floating license that can be associated with a full license.

[zWolf]

Excellent sir!!

so, am I first to buy the Ultimate License? or does that honor go to some one else?

zWolf = Glory Hound.

now maybe I should actually DM something eh.... :-P

[tdewitt274]

Just want to see if I understand the whole thing.

Purchasing the ULTIMATE version will give you a Full license AND the ability to host an unlimited amount of users. So, if I have an existing Full license then I would have two Fulls?

Not that this is a problem, just wanting to confirm.

[ddavison]

That is correct. You would essentially have two full licenses. One of them could also host an unlimited number of connections.

[ddavison]

Excellent sir!!

so, am I first to buy the Ultimate License? or does that honor go to some one else?

zWolf = Glory Hound.

now maybe I should actually DM something eh.... :-P

You gained that honor. You are the first ULTIMATE Fantasy Grounds GM. ;)

(something to put in your sig)

[mr_h]

If I had the time to GM more games, I would most definitely get this. It'd open the games up to a lot more people.

Also, if I had the money at moment I'd get it...darn Xmas and Wifes birthday in the same month.

[tdewitt274]

OK, you got me too. Hopefully I can convince the game table jump on board. ;)

[unerwünscht]

I am working with a few friends that are GM's to help with that some. We are going to start running some large user base shared games. Our plan is to have a few of us get the ultimate license and the others stick with the full license. So we can bait them with the unlimited games, and real them in with the others :)

[Oberoten]

Well hat is off. (And those who know me RL knows how seldom I remove that thing anyway. ;) ) You have really delivered on this one. Now to see how much money I get to deliver back.

- Obe

[zWolf]

You gained that honor. You are the first ULTIMATE Fantasy Grounds GM. ;)

(something to put in your sig)

I am totally gonna do that! (note new sig. :-P )

[Valarian]

Excellent news, I've succumbed to temptation* and bought one. Now I'll be able to run demo games as I want to, and do some evangelising in the next FUMCon. I'll be encouraging players to try a game before they buy, and to buy the Full license so they can run their own games. Many thanks for doing this.

* Really, I'm like that Oscar Wilde quote: I can resist everything but temptation.

[drahkar]

Looks like I know what I'll be putting some pennies together for next. This is too good of a thing to pass up.

[Doswelk]

I am totally gonna do that! (note new sig. :-P ) __________________
Thanks,

zwolf -out.
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((Badge - World first)) Ultimate Licenced DM |||
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums...39&postcount=5 (showpost.php?p=81939&postcount=5)
-------------------------------------------------


ROFL! :cool:

[JMOxx75]

I don't understand the benefit of the unregistered version? If its that you don't have to pay for it does that mean that only the unregistered versions can connect to someone with the ultimate license to play?

[Valarian]

The unregistered versions can ONLY connect to someone with an Ultimate license. The benefit, one word .... Demos.

[ddavison]

... or if you want to run multiple groups with different members and they are hesitant to buy lite licenses up front. One GM could run three regular games with 5 players each using a single ultimate license. Previously, they would have to buy a full license and every player would have to buy a lite license. Since SmiteWorks could potentially be losing out on a lot of possible income in that scenario, the hope is that enough of those 15 players would be impressed enough with FG that they would buy their own Lite, Full or Ultimate license.

[joshuha]

... or if you want to run multiple groups with different members and they are hesitant to buy lite licenses up front. One GM could run three regular games with 5 players each using a single ultimate license. Previously, they would have to buy a full license and every player would have to buy a lite license. Since SmiteWorks could potentially be losing out on a lot of possible income in that scenario, the hope is that enough of those 15 players would be impressed enough with FG that they would buy their own Lite, Full or Ultimate license.

They might have to after that busy GM goes into a coma from the stress, j/k.

[tdewitt274]

OK, so I've downloaded the linked EXE file, backed up my Fantasy Grounds folder, uninstalled FGII (I had a Full version), installed the new EXE. However, when I go into the program, it doesn't ask for my new registry key.

How do I update the new key?

Thanks

[tdewitt274]

Figured it out.

Thanks

[zWolf]

I told my Face to Face DM about the ultimate license, he said that he is going to pick one up soon for his home group.

[Darkfaith]

I finally got mine. Yay! I'm so excited! ^.^

[Engar]

Does Ultimate do everything Full does (as well as allow unlimited users and unregistered copies to connect)?

[unerwünscht]

Yes the ultimate license is basicly a full license with unlimited floating licenses.

[Engar]

Thanks! I just looked at the price... ouch. I already have two full and five lites for an old group I ran with some friends. I really like the idea of not having to worry about everyone buying lite licenses to connect for visitors or referrals into the game. That said, $150 is currently more than I value the added convenience (especially considering the reduced functionality of unregistered versions).

I am just one customer with my own very lackadaisical use of the application and a much more limited cash flow than when I first discovered FG a couple years ago. That said, I saw some concern about the ultimate version with regard to profitability in other posts (which may have something to do with the relatively high price). I wonder if a model offering free user versions and a price somewhere between the full and ultimate might reach a larger market. Demand from users for others to step up to GM as well as many customers simple desire for the greatest functionality (even for simple want rather than need) might drive more sales and spike volume even if individual sales have lower profit margins. This of course is assuming research and development is all or near all the overhead cost in the software (no form of royalties are paid for each copy sold).

Please excuse my forwardness in offering advice. It has likely already been considered and the current model deemed more favorable. Please take from my post only that I enjoy the product and wish you all growth and success (rather than nosy intervention in your business :-).

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!

[Valarian]

There's a plan for floating licenses (mentioned in one of the other threads) that can be registered with a Full license. The price that has been talked about is around $30, more than a Lite license but less than a Full. The Ultimate break-even point is around 4 Floating licenses without discount factors.

[drahkar]

Has there been any thought into a Upgrade price for going from a Full Version to the Ultimate Version? (Hey, it can't hurt to ask!)

[ddavison]

If we end up keeping the ultimate licenses as an option going forward, we would probably consider that option as well. It would make sense to me.

[drahkar]

Would it be retroactive? :D

[ddavison]

It probably would not be retroactive due to the accounting issues surrounding it. If an easy way to handle that occurs to me, I'll let you know though.

[tenkar]

Just an idea, but how about store credit for those that bought the Ultimate but already have a Full or Lite license. No (real) loss of income there, and you reward longtime customers.

Edit: If you went this route you would have to cancel the original license to prevent it from being reused.

[ddavison]

That is an idea we've toyed with as well but there is no credit feature in the current storefront that I am aware of.

[Master]

I am pretty close to buying the ultimate version but 150 is steep especially when I have already purchased 3 full versions already. If only I had waited ;)

[VenomousFiligree]

OK, so I've downloaded the linked EXE file, backed up my Fantasy Grounds folder, uninstalled FGII (I had a Full version), installed the new EXE. However, when I go into the program, it doesn't ask for my new registry key.

How do I update the new key?

Thanks


Figured it out.

Thanks
And how did you do it? :)

[ddavison]

I sent you a PM.

[VenomousFiligree]

I sent you a PM.
Sorted, thanks :)

[tdewitt274]

And how did you do it? :)

I'd like to note that I did it a different way, if I remember correctly, and it worked fine.

Also, for testing purposes, I installed a user version (without the code) on my PC in my C:\Progam Files\Fantasy Grouns II - Lite" folder. Worked pretty slick.

[demonsbane]

If we end up keeping the ultimate licenses as an option going forward, we would probably consider that option as well. It would make sense to me.

That would be tempting for me.

[zWolf]

If we end up keeping the ultimate licenses as an option going forward, we would probably consider that option as well. It would make sense to me.

heh, I like that ddavison is so forthright with his info and possible plans... but... I just wonder if he realized that the comment most likely shut down the possibility of selling any more 'Ultimate's' to existing full license users?

or at least reduced it to a trickle...

that said, I stick with the KUDO's going out for as much info. as he's willing to put up on the table, even at the expense of losing sales.

or course the flip side... is that some of the users that 'did' buy the Ultimate 'might' feel a bit of a tweek at not having waited till an 'upgrade' price came out... ahh the joy's of doing business. heh, gotta love it!

I can say I'm certainly happy with my purchase, and speaking only for myself, I wouldn't be one of those that felt a... what did I call it.. a "tweek?", if an upgrade plan did come out... I got used to spending a bit more as an early adapter when I bought my first nice video card heh.

out of curiosity, I was wondering if the Ultimate license has been considered 'successful' since it's announcement, and quick release a month ago?



zWolf -out.

[drahkar]

Doug has already said that even if they decide to not keep the Ultimate License, he would continue to honor those who bought it so they didn't waste their money.

However the purchase of it should be considered in moderation. I would say that the average group would be better off getting the Full/Lite configuration as they will be using the same people over and over. It makes more sense in the long run as it distributes the cost across the group and allows for GM switching merely by spending a little extra and upgrading another lite to full.

Ultimate is better suited for GMs who will likely have a lot of revolving players.

[Valarian]

Doug has already said that even if they decide to not keep the Ultimate License, he would continue to honor those who bought it so they didn't waste their money.
I would hope this means continued support of the unlicensed installation rather than a refund and discontinuation.

[drahkar]

I would hope this means continued support of the unlicensed installation rather than a refund and discontinuation.

Yup, that was the impression that I walked away with.

[ddavison]

I would hope this means continued support of the unlicensed installation rather than a refund and discontinuation.


Yes, it would continue to be supported.

I realize that by speaking of future plans that might be better than the current situation, it does tend to lead towards more people sitting on the fence. I factor that into the cost of doing business the way I want to conduct it -- which is as transparent as possible. That's really okay though since it means I will have a line of happy customers ready when that future moment comes.

[Valarian]

That's what I read from it. Very many thanks for providing what I definitely consider the Ultimate version.

[CelineSSauve]

Yes, it would continue to be supported.

I realize that by speaking of future plans that might be better than the current situation, it does tend to lead towards more people sitting on the fence. I factor that into the cost of doing business the way I want to conduct it -- which is as transparent as possible. That's really okay though since it means I will have a line of happy customers ready when that future moment comes.

Ooh. I check in after quite a while and spot this gem. Of course, I just now got a job to start paying off the student debt, but my boyfriend runs various games and systems (though face-to-face and not online) and might be interested. I shall certainly let him know.

And keep an eye open for a possible 'upgrade' from my Full in the future.

[Kalan]

Hmm...I was considering gettin an ultimate licence, but after reading through this I may hold off a little bit (at least til the end of this month when a little more spare cash comes in)...

That said, even if an upgrade option never comes, I may just say bugger it and get it anyways :)

Now if only my old coupon from DA for the SW v. 3 ruleset worked...dang thing got sent to an old email account I rarely use anymore :(

[johniba]

I dont understand how reading this topic convinced you to hold off on purchasing the ultimate license, I had the opposite impression

[Kalan]

I dont understand how reading this topic convinced you to hold off on purchasing the ultimate license, I had the opposite impression

Its mostly a cash flow thing atm, that and IF there's an upgrade option down the road I want to hold off (its easier to convince my wife to let me spend 100 danish kroner, than the 750kr it would cost for the Ultimate :D)

[mr_h]

Its mostly a cash flow thing atm, that and IF there's an upgrade option down the road I want to hold off (its easier to convince my wife to let me spend 100 danish kroner, than the 750kr it would cost for the Ultimate :D)


We can pay in pastries now? Awesome, I'm gonna get me some kripsy kreams...

:)

(I know I know....it's been a long day at work)

[Kalan]

We can pay in pastries now? Awesome, I'm gonna get me some kripsy kreams...

:)

(I know I know....it's been a long day at work)

Oh how I've missed the sarcasm ;)

[Kalan]

Not sure if this was covered in a previous post or not...

But does one have to uninstall their Full Licence prior to installation of the Ultimate Licence? Or can they exist "side by side"?

[drahkar]

I don't know if anyone has tested that actually. 1) Its just one more variable for things to cause issues, and 2) There is no need to keep using the Full license once you install the Ultimate.

[tdewitt274]

Although I do not have a Full license installed, I did install the Ultimate and a "Sub" Lite (client for the Lite) on the same PC using different directories in the install. No issues.

I would guess that if you installed the Ultimate in a "Fantasy Grounds Ultimate" folder, you would be fine. It uses the same AppData folders.

[Kalan]

Thanks guys...probably better to be safe than sorry and uninstall the full licence :) After makin a backup of my AppData folder :D

[Aracon]

I am new to Fantasy Grounds and found this thread useful...

I snagged the ultimate license... now the task of learning...

[ddavison]

Okay, at this stage I feel pretty confident that we will keep the ultimate license as an option. It seems to be selling fairly well without diminishing over all sales of licenses. One thing we have not done at this stage is provide an upgrade option for people who already own a full license.

If you are interested in the ultimate license and you already own a full license, please send an email to [email protected] with a copy of your full license key and a request for the Ultimate upgrade. We will deactivate your full license manually and give you the option of buying the ultimate for $115 instead of $150. We will probably only do this for the next 2 weeks because it is more of a management issue for us and after that point we will still plan on adding a fully automated update option but will no longer do the manual upgrade options.

[Kalan]

Okay, at this stage I feel pretty confident that we will keep the ultimate license as an option. It seems to be selling fairly well without diminishing over all sales of licenses. One thing we have not done at this stage is provide an upgrade option for people who already own a full license.

If you are interested in the ultimate license and you already own a full license, please send an email to [email protected] with a copy of your full license key and a request for the Ultimate upgrade. We will deactivate your full license manually and give you the option of buying the ultimate for $115 instead of $150. We will probably only do this for the next 2 weeks because it is more of a management issue for us and after that point we will still plan on adding a fully automated update option but will no longer do the manual upgrade options.

Well this just sold it for me. now to wait til payday on Thursday :D

[phantomwhale]

Was just trying to get five of my players into Fantasy grounds, but worried about upfront cost of licences for players how might after a session or two not really be into it.

Sounds like upgrading my full licence into an ultimate license might be the way to go - what good timing ! However I have a couple of concerns :

I am trying to run a Deadlands : Reloaded game which means two things at the moment (a) using the Savage Worlds Ruleset v3 (which I have a copy of) and (b) potentially adding user customised elements to support the DL:R specifics.

My concern was the Savage Worlds Ruleset v3 always insists that it does NOT work with Lite licences and the user needs a Full licence to use it. What will this mean for my unregistered players logging into my Ultimate license copy of FG ? Will they be able to use the full savage functionality (Wild dice, bennies) as well ?

Thanks,
Ben

[Kalan]

Was just trying to get five of my players into Fantasy grounds, but worried about upfront cost of licences for players how might after a session or two not really be into it.

Sounds like upgrading my full licence into an ultimate license might be the way to go - what good timing ! However I have a couple of concerns :

I am trying to run a Deadlands : Reloaded game which means two things at the moment (a) using the Savage Worlds Ruleset v3 (which I have a copy of) and (b) potentially adding user customised elements to support the DL:R specifics.

My concern was the Savage Worlds Ruleset v3 always insists that it does NOT work with Lite licences and the user needs a Full licence to use it. What will this mean for my unregistered players logging into my Ultimate license copy of FG ? Will they be able to use the full savage functionality (Wild dice, bennies) as well ?

Thanks,
Ben

Only the GM needs a Full/ultimate license to host the game using the ruleset. Lite users will be able to connect with no issues, and be able to make full use of the functionality while connected to the host server only. This means they will not be able to create characters ahead of time, and will have to do so when they connect.

Hope that clears it up :)

[drahkar]

Yes, I can't think of any situation where a ruleset would require all users to be a full user and above.

I just read the Store entry and I think you might have been misreading the note at the end. I believe the note means that the Ruleset is entirely a FGII 2.5.x and above product and doesn't exist in any other form. Not that it will only work with Fantasy Grounds II Full License.

[Aracon]

The weaknesses with the ultimate license is:
1. if someone else in your group wants to GM they will have to buy an ultimate license or equivalent
2. People who buy the lite / full combo can not design characters locally

[Griogre]

The weaknesses with the ultimate license is:
2. People who buy the lite / full combo can not design characters locally
The ultimate license should be able to design characters locally just as well as the full version of FG.

[Valarian]

Lite users are also unable to locally edit characters with a good deal of the rulesets available. This isn't a problem with the Ultimate license. As Griogre says, you should be able to do as much with the Ultimate license as with the Full. Lite license users don't need to purchase additional rulesets, the means for playing comes in the encrypted campaign file downloaded from the GM's machine.

[Aracon]

I can design them locally, but my player's don't seem to be able to like they could if they had purchased the LITE version and I had the FULL version.

IMO FULL + LITES are likely a better approach for those on a tight budget.

The advantage of the Ultimate for me was to get everyone into a game quickly.

[ddavison]

The ULTIMATE license is not a complete replacement for the X Full + Y Lite licenses. It is nice for the player who wants to GM for any number of players without requiring them to buy any licenses or other FG products or for GMs who would like to run for multiple groups of players.

For a mostly fixed group of players who want to share the GM task for the group, the LITE + FULL licenses will be a better deal. In that situation, it is probably cheapest to buy 1 FULL + X LITE licenses and then when the next person wants to GM, simply have them upgrade their license to a FULL license.

[Aracon]

I personally still like the Ultimate license because we won't likely swicth around GMs. Overall this is a great tool for online gaming and well worth whatever license method best suits someone.

[Oberoten]

The big question for me is when we can get a floating license alternative with like one open slot. I have bought six full licenses and it'd be pretty wasteful of me to buy a Ultimate only so it'll be more convenient demoing stuff to the occasional new player.

- Obe

[ddavison]

It is still on the list. I was going to wait until we switched to the new store which had a completely different DB and back-end, but it is looking like we will stick with this version and simply enhance it. We are still planning to switch over to a U.S. host but the platform will remain the same basically. I will need to re-evaluate things once we've done that and give a better ETA then. It is still very much on the list of things to do.

[SLB]

There is wording in the definition of the Ultimate license which has had me confused/concerned and despite my sleuthing I have been unable to figure out precisely what the implications of it is.

"Host an unlimited number of unregistered players"

I understand what that means for an Ultimate license owner. However it implies that there is some form of limit on the full license. So, perhaps I am reading too much into it. My question is:

Is there a limit to the number of registered players which can be hosted by a full license?

[tdewitt274]

Is there a limit to the number of registered players which can be hosted by a full license?

Full licenses require people attaching to the GM to have a Full or Lite license. So, if you want to have 5 people playing, they have to spend the money for the licenses.

With Ultimate, people attaching do not have to buy a licenses (just install the "basic" program), but Full and Lite can attach as well.

A person that does not have a registered version cannot play in a game that is being hosted by a Full license.

Another way to put it is if you're going to GM all the time, Ultimate is the way to go (with a larger group). If someone else may want to GM, then you may want to go the Full/Lite way.

I'm not aware if there is an upper limit of Full versions to connect.

Hope that helps.

[drahkar]

To my knowledge, in regards maximum connections, you are only limited by the number of connections your internet connection bandwidth can handle.

[ddavison]

The only limit on the number of connections is the ability of your bandwidth and your computer to support it. This is true of the Ultimate and the Full license.

[diacritica]

I've been following this thread to get a feeling of what's exactly a Ultimate License meant for. I think I get it.

Now, traditionally, with RPGs, the economic pressure was set upon the DM. It was normally the DM who would buy the rulebook, photocopy some character sheets, use his own dice, etc, while the players would benefit from his hard work with virtually no investment (save for their time).

The Ultimate License mimics this situation in some way but fails to deliver a full experience to the players due to the Demo limitations.

For USD 150 I'd expect that limitation to be erased in some way. It could be done, for instance, thanks to a free Lite edition that can only be activated thanks to a partner Ultimate edition (a first connection or something). That lite edition would then only really operate offline or if connected to that specific Ultimate edition.

I'm sure a "free Lite edition" would cause some confusion to the public, which SmiteWorks should avoid, so instead, they could bundle a pack of Ultimate Edition plus Ultimate client (which could be in fact a tweaked Lite edition) and ship it as a complete pack.

I'm sure many potential DMs out there, like me, are willing to pay USD 150 the same way we paid in the past for the rulebooks, third party quests, miniatures, etc so we could arrange a campaign with some friends (or not even that) imposing no extra fee.

I somehow manage my own company and I am always dealing with "business models" and how new strategies could be helpful or risky. I'm not here to tell SmiteWorks how to do business but I think an extra step towards that direction (Ultimate + "lite" clients) could have great potential. I, for one, would not hesitate to buy one.

Regards,
Pablo

[Aracon]

My solution to the offline issue is to keep the server up and running for the players. This seems to work pretty well.

While I found the $150 to be worth it for me, I think it might be a bit more palatable for people if it included some rulesets bundeled with it. (perhaps $50 towards other products).

The issue in my groups now is that if someone else wants to GM, they must either buy the Ultimate license or have everyone buy lite versions, negating any expense "savings" on my Ultimate license.... meaning that I essentially paid $150 for a Full license....

However, because most of my core players wouldn't run a game and don't have the free time to play more than in my game, it was worth it for us. For other people a Full+Lite approach might be better... just depends upon your situation.

I was also able to quickly ramp up a Cthulhu game that likely never would have gotten off the ground if I didn't have an Ultimate license......

[Doswelk]

I've been following this thread to get a feeling of what's exactly a Ultimate License meant for. I think I get it.

Now, traditionally, with RPGs, the economic pressure was set upon the DM. It was normally the DM who would buy the rulebook, photocopy some character sheets, use his own dice, etc, while the players would benefit from his hard work with virtually no investment (save for their time).

The Ultimate License mimics this situation in some way but fails to deliver a full experience to the players due to the Demo limitations.

For USD 150 I'd expect that limitation to be erased in some way. It could be done, for instance, thanks to a free Lite edition that can only be activated thanks to a partner Ultimate edition (a first connection or something). That lite edition would then only really operate offline or if connected to that specific Ultimate edition.

I'm sure a "free Lite edition" would cause some confusion to the public, which SmiteWorks should avoid, so instead, they could bundle a pack of Ultimate Edition plus Ultimate client (which could be in fact a tweaked Lite edition) and ship it as a complete pack.

I'm sure many potential DMs out there, like me, are willing to pay USD 150 the same way we paid in the past for the rulebooks, third party quests, miniatures, etc so we could arrange a campaign with some friends (or not even that) imposing no extra fee.

I somehow manage my own company and I am always dealing with "business models" and how new strategies could be helpful or risky. I'm not here to tell SmiteWorks how to do business but I think an extra step towards that direction (Ultimate + "lite" clients) could have great potential. I, for one, would not hesitate to buy one.

Regards,
Pablo

To be honest most rulesets do not support offline mode anyway.

If the ruleset does support offline mode on a lite client any characters that have connected to the server are read only any way.

[ddavison]

Thank you for the feedback. We are always considering new business models and improvements to our offerings and to our product. We debated long and hard before finally settling on the price and package for the ultimate edition and the community was very helpful in finding the right price. We realize that we are not going to be able to satisfy everyone and our bottom line with whatever we decide, but it appears to be selling quite well. We see a lot fewer lite license sales, but they are balanced by the ultimate licenses. The next significant business model change will be to provide a floating license option. We have promised this to our users and we still hope to deliver -- despite some setbacks in this area.

[diacritica]

It's true that most people on the forums are asking for this floating license feature. This wouldn't be my case as I'm clearly my "local DM" but I'm sure it will satisfy many.

I guess the key question here is the pricing. If the Ultimate edition is elligible for this feature, I could understand asking for extra USD. Maybe USD 200?

Anyway, it could be compatible with the idea of "floating" Ultimate clients (based on lite) tied to a specific Ultimate floating edition. This would be just awesome and could give the Lite edition a new meaning.

Cheers,
Pablo