Music Sharing

[WizardFrost]

Hi, I've been a dungeon master for a long time. I've wanted to use an online client for quite a while now to host games with friends in far away places, and I think this may be the right tool for the job, however, I cannot purchase it unless it has the following functionality.

I need to be able to share music scores and effects with my players. The scores must be able to be triggered upon a map load, event, or upon my request. I go to great lengths to ensure the style and ambiance of my campaigns and I simply could not be with out this functionality.

Could this be a possibility in the near future?

[Griogre]

It's not likely this will be included in FG anytime soon. Some people do stream things like this though a Ventrillo Server, though.

You might want to look at this thread: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5064&highlight=Ventrillo+Music+Sounds

[WizardFrost]

That's sort of disappointing to hear. Thank you for your input though.

[Griogre]

I'm afraid I'm in the camp of not liking audio built into FG. That doesn't mean I don't like audio - I use voice chat in all my games. I just think the guys who write dedicated audio programs are better off doing that. There are also benefits to running two programs like if one crashes then you still have the other to communicate with.

[WizardFrost]

Forgive me for sounding a little base, but your argument is fragmented. I would assume that the idea of creating an online tabletop gaming environment would be to create the most complete experience possible for the ease and convenience of its clients. To say that said utility would be better off not providing a relatively common requested function would be like visiting a coffee shop that didn't carry cream. Some people like it black, and some people like it with cream, but if you don't carry cream, you're losing business, and metaphorically speaking, if you don't like cream, then simply don't use it. As for myself, I'm not buying the coffee unless I'm being offered cream.

I understand that the requested function may not be feasible to be implemented at this point in time, however, at the time that it should become feasible, I'll be happy to purchase several copies of it. Regardless, I'm simply not going to waste my time screwing around with several programs to get the functionality I want, not to mention the headaches this will cause for the rest of my guests. It's not worth my time.

[Spyke]

Regardless, I'm simply not going to waste my time screwing around with several programs to get the functionality I want, not to mention the headaches this will cause for the rest of my guests. It's not worth my time.You may need to wait a while, then! Chances are that there isn't a VT yet that has all the features you need. FG2 doesn't have the audio, but does have many features not available from its rivals. Hopefully there's one out there that will tick all the boxes for you, but don't be surprised if, at the moment, you need to run supplementary software to get all the functionality you need.

Spyke

[WizardFrost]

I understand, and I am impressed with the features it does have.

But still...

[EugeneZ]

WizardFrost, I think you'll find a number of people who agree with Griogre (like me). That's been my experience here, anyway. As Spyke points out, the application you speak of would take a long time to develop considering the progress made on VTTs so far. So, I am assuming Griogre's answer is designed to be realistic: if audio was added to FG2 it would probably NOT be as good as an audio system designed by teams that have been around longer, have more money, and have been focused on that one area. That doesn't mean a VTT shouldn't have audio, as you point out, but it means that we're probably better off without it, for now.

To put it more succinctly, I'd prefer Smiteworks spends their time fixing issues like the double-dice problem rather than adding features that, for years, will simply not match up to software I already have. No software can fix the double dice issue. Or the host of other issues or feature requests that only FG2 can resolve.

[Griogre]

WizardFrost I absolutely agree with you - you should *never* buy software for what it may do - but only for what it can do for you at the time you buy it.

I had looked at Virtual Table Tops off and on for several years before I finally took the plunge. The trigger for me was good audio chat. Even though in one else I earn my living typing, I am not really a very good typist and simply did not want to speed of my typing to be the limit on the speed of my descriptions during a game.

I’ve been a software developer for a while, and focused software projects always do better than ones that try to do, or be, everything. The developers of FG are a small team and I would hate for them to lose their focus. That’s really my only objection to sound effects right now.

I strongly urge you to look at what all the different VTT have. You want to use the one that fits your game the best. You will find each program has its strengths and weaknesses. In time I have no doubt there will be audio, but only you can tell when there is enough to allow you to run the game you want.

[WizardFrost]

Eugene

Smiteworks prefers to make money and continue to employ engineers. I'm assuming that you've already paid them. I'm sure that your personal satisfaction with their product is their first priority (on the list of 2000 other purchasees complaining about something or another) as opposed to advancing their software to increase its profitability. Count on it (sarcasm). Then, when all of the sudden they go bankrupt and can no longer afford to fix your bugs, you're going to piss and moan and blame them for not advancing the profitability of their product.

Incidentally, regarding music, a 128k audio stream or waveform is always of exactly the same quality played through any number of standard and publicly available codecs. You're argument makes no sense.

--------
Griogre,

I'm simply picking on FG, because I find it the most useful, and I feel it has the best potential to be the complete source for online tabletop gaming.

Either way. I'm done trolling here.

Good Eve.

[unerwünscht]

You may need to wait a while, then! Chances are that there isn't a VT yet that has all the features you need. FG2 doesn't have the audio, but does have many features not available from its rivals. Hopefully there's one out there that will tick all the boxes for you, but don't be surprised if, at the moment, you need to run supplementary software to get all the functionality you need.

Spyke

Ok.. I'm gonna bite..... What are these features you speak of? FGII has 3D dice (something I have yet to see in any other VTT) but that is the only non standard feature I can think of. What else have you seen that is not common to almost every other VTT on the market?

(Since everything needs clarification in my posts it would seem, I am not asking to be an ***, I am truly interested if I missed some more awesome features)

[Spyke]

Ok.. I'm gonna bite..... What are these features you speak of? FGII has 3D dice (something I have yet to see in any other VTT) but that is the only non standard feature I can think of. What else have you seen that is not common to almost every other VTT on the market?Fantasy Grounds has:

A true desktop feel, which allows multiple maps and images to be displayed at the same time.

Interactive character sheets embedded in the program.

Campaign management pages, which allow a hyperlinked scenario to be developed within the application, complete with links to scenes, characters, maps, and dialogue.

A combat tracker which is linked to the map, which can signal a player's turn within the chat interface, and which can be populated by dragging PCs and NPCs from their character sheets.

The ability to skin the interface to suit the mood of the game.

On top of this, the text chat interface is superior to that commonly found in VTs, with both actions and emotions formatted in the style of a play script which adds to the the atmosphere, and which includes a mechanism for voting.

And let's not forget the frivolous but brilliant lighting mood function which can alter the hue of the tabletop to reflect camp fires, daylight, darkest dungeons, the pale glow of the moon - this can still send a shiver down my spine when used well.

(I should say that the VTs I own are Fantasy Grounds, GRiP, BRPG and iTabletop, and I've also used MapTool, so I'm looking at elements common to those.)

Spyke

[Griogre]

My thoughts are similar to Spyke, generally speaking I like FG for role playing because it's the only VTT built around the character sheet. The rest are all built around the map, with the character sheet an after thought.

Yet in a face to face game the things most used on the table are the dice and character sheet. For some game systems you might not even need a battlemap and if the group knows the rules they may not even need the rulebooks.

[Sorontar]

Either way. I'm done trolling here.

Good Eve.

Damn I just got the oil and torches prep'd as well ;)

Good luck in finding your VTT and happy gaming.

[nytemare3701]

I'm actually really happy with FantasyGrounds, but I can't help but wonder if the music idea isn't worth following.

NOTE: I have almost no scripting experience, so this is all coming straight from the nether-regions.

How hard would it be to integrate a VERY basic (ie no GUI included) audio player into FG? If so, it should be relatively simple to add the following features.

Audio Packs as modules (forceloaded by the GM just like a book)
Slash commands to play audio tracks (similar to linking to a page in a sourcebook I would think)
^from this, we would have Pins on the map (which are just fancy story shortcuts anyway) that play music, Triggered traps (DM clicks trap, game places Trap Token on that spot and plays sound), and even Ambient Music attached to pictures (that one would be tougher).

Against my better judgement, I'm thanking the Troll for bringing it up.

[Tenian]

Adding the ability to play sound (assuming it's a standard type) is usually pretty easy.

However to do music cues correctly FGII would have to handle the triggering and timing of sound playing across multiple machines. I imagine this is where the complexity lies.

[nytemare3701]

I can't imagine a case in which a sound would have to play at the exact same time for everyone. as long as it's within say, 3 seconds of each other, then it wouldn't ever be an issue.

More complicated, but potentially more fun:

Linking sound cues to character sheets, so only people who have he correct amount of perception could hear them. (I suppose it could be done with a "disable SFX for this character" type button.)

Update: I failed miserably at trying to send an MP3 through the module system. I zipped a sound file, along with the normal contents of a module, then changed it to .mod. It never showed up though :-/

[Casimir]

I admit I'm rather new to FG - but I've been thinking about this myself. When I used to play a lot of face to face games back in the day, background mood music (especially for my Call of Cthulhu games) was important - if not essential in some cases.

Now, while I don't necessarily advocate a true music system be built into FG, a "sound cue" system - for specific sounds - I would think would be a great addition.

Now - with Lua as the scripting program basis, wouldn't it be possible to create a sub-folder (lets call it "sounds") in the FG data directory, and create a script called by a template or function that "calls" a numbered file within the sounds directory when cued?

Say, for example, I'm Dm'ing a game and I want to create a quick mood change. I change the lighting to nighttime and then click a shortcut that triggers a Lua script to execute "background_1.wav" in the /sounds directory. Everyone would see the lighting change, and then hear the mood sound play.

I think the only tricky part would be figuring out how to get Lua to execute the sound by calling a specific program to do so.

Thoughts?

[Griogre]

For security reasons FG has does not allow any LUA calls to start other applications.

[nytemare3701]

For security reasons FG has does not allow any LUA calls to start other applications.

...which means that FG would have to have it's own internal music player.

[Debinani]

Audio is a pain, especially if if you don't have framework-level support for it (like in Flash/Flex/Air where playing nearly any format audio is one line of code). Audio multicast streaming is even worse. Usually you have to end up licensing something to save the costs of trying to re-invent the wheel because there are a whole lot of other people out there who've already done it and done it better.
I can certainly understand how the devs wouldn't want to diverge from their core competancies by implementing a a bunch of code and introducing tons of compatibility and satisfaction risk for something that, while it may be kind nifty, can, for the most part, be perfectly well-managed with 3rd party programs.

[BarnabyJones]

One solution I'll be looking into for playing music with FGII is Shoutcast. I used to run an internet radio station with this software, and the music quality was decent (hosting for far more than would be in my p&p group). Now that I know only 4 people will be connecting, I should be able to stream higher quality without any issues.

https://www.shoutcast.com/
https://www.winamp.com/

[Erythrocytes]

It is 100% possible to check the features of this program before posting on the forum about it. Lets assume you checked the features list but weren't sure, so you decided to post a check on the forums anyway. Is it really necessary to have your nose so high in the air when doing so? I feel that until our friend can design and code his own VTT, he will need to either be satisfied with the features available or get a group of local friends to play with. Suggesting is one thing, bashing a beautiful piece of programming is another.:D

[Zeus]

Just a thought.

Doesn't FGII already have the capability to play a sound on a client on certain events?

I'm thinking when FGII sounds a bell on a players turn when the CT cycles to the character in the current round?

I know the bell sound and the handling of this is likley to be embeded in the code base and not exposed via the XML/LUA APIs but still does it not mean that the basic framework of sound support is already in place? And that it it just needs basic methods exposing via the APIs.

If I'm talking flubbish then forgive my ignorance. :confused:

[Sorontar]

Just a thought.

Doesn't FGII already have the capability to play a sound on a client on certain events?

I'm thinking when FGII sounds a bell on a players turn when the CT cycles to the character in the current round?

I know the bell sound and the handling of this is likley to be embeded in the code base and not exposed via the XML/LUA APIs but still does it not mean that the basic framework of sound support is already in place? And that it it just needs basic methods exposing via the APIs.

If I'm talking flubbish then forgive my ignorance. :confused:

Yikes that just reminded me, my sounds have stopped playing as have those for my players.

Did we used to get a sound also when dice rolled, if so that's stopped for me as well.

Could I have deleted something somewhere to turn this off?

[Foen]

I don't recall there ever being the sound of rolling dice. As regards the bell on player turn, IIRC there is a bug in the standard ruleset so it no longer works.

I'll dig around and see if I can report it.

Foen

[Tenian]

Unless it broke in 2.6.0:

You can send a bell to a client. That's not technically a sound. It's really just the old CTRL-G character which fires the client's bell. Old school terminals (like the VT-100) used this as their only sound.

Windows offers you the option to change this and instead of the standard bell it fires off whatever file you've specified in the OS.

I believe the option with the fewest legal entanglements would require the entire sound file to be streamed from the host to the clients. Other wise you would have to distribute music files to the client (either via ruleset downloads or some other method like modules). I think we all know what a legal quagmire distributing music files can be :)

[Foen]

It broke before 2.5, as I fixed it in the SW3 ruleset, which was in beta well before 2.5.

Stuart

[Sorontar]

I don't recall there ever being the sound of rolling dice.

Maybe not, perhaps I'm getting it confused with another product from ages ago - that D&D thing from Codemonkeys maybe. Old age catching up on me it seems. :)

[Foen]

I've tracked it down. In combattracker_entry.lua the setActive function has the following code:


local usernode = link.getTargetDatabaseNode()
if usernode then
User.ringBell(usernode.getName());
end

But instead it should be:


local usernode = link.getTargetDatabaseNode()
if usernode then
User.ringBell(usernode.getOwner());
end

Foen