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  1. #11
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadzar View Post
    Though a bunch of people wish that FG and other VTTs would include both a DM map keyed and an unkeyed player map for use.
    This wish has already been granted!

    FG has been doing this as standard in the majority of the products produced in the store for a number of years. There is usually a keyed DM map (as presented in the original product) with numbers, traps, secret doors, etc. shown - so that the GM can look things up directly in the reference manual and/or story entries based off the reference numbers on the map. Plus the story entries will be pinned (linked) to the GM map.

    Then there will be a map produced for the players - with the key, numbers, traps, etc. removed - and the story entries pinned to the map for quick reference by the GM during play.

    I'm wondering what "bunch of people" are making these wishes for FG, when what they wish for has been around for years?

    Here's an example of the usual FG standard, taken from the Pathfinder Playtest Doomsday Dawn FG product. The map top center is the GM map - with the map key and FG story links. The top left is the reference manual - produced in a similar format to the original product, with numbered locations so the GM can find the info based off the GM map quickly and easily if they prefer running using the reference manual format. Link to story entries are also provided - with some of the story entries shown in the top right. Bottom right, underneath the other windows, is the main player map - at a good pixel size for play, with all of the GM specific info removed. FG links are also provided allowing the GM to run the game purely from the player map if that's what they desire. There's a lot of flexibility in this approach - providing GMs with multiple sources of information and allowing them to plan, play and organize the game how they wish.

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    Last edited by Trenloe; October 20th, 2018 at 22:44.
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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    This wish has already been granted!
    The ones in the FG store yeah, mostly (havent sen every product in there run yet, but have seen a LOT). but any NOT in the store, which there is how many adventures on DMs Guild as FG modules? not so much that ALL have a DM map for each map.... and the other VTTs... good luck getting them to do it.


    hopefully FGU will have the built in GM layer that prevents the need for double maps and the GM information can just be placed on a layer the players never see. One of the biggest draws for ANY VTT is that ability for the GM to see one thing, and the players see something else, so you have those notes right there during play without having to flip back and forth between pages or "windows".


    Also hopefully FGU will allow that GM layer to be on top of the map layer but under the tokens layer so a GM doesnt have to wonder if they can "click through" GM notes to be able to get to tokens to move them, or ahve the GM layer locked an only visible but not able to interact with it unless it is unlocked for "editing".

    but we will all hear about more FGU features... Soon(TM)

    (and.... FGU release date just got pushed back another 3 months...)

  3. #13
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadzar View Post
    The ones in the FG store yeah, mostly (havent sen every product in there run yet, but have seen a LOT). but any NOT in the store, which there is how many adventures on DMs Guild as FG modules? not so much that ALL have a DM map for each map.... and the other VTTs... good luck getting them to do it.
    So, it’s some developers in DMs Guild not doing a thorough job, rather than FG not being able to provide a GM and Player map.

    So the aforementioned "bunch of other people" are not actually wishing for FG to be able to do both a keyed DM map and an unkeyed player map (because FG can, and does do that) they are just wishing for the occasionally third-party product, outside of FG's long list of DLC, to do a little more dev work and include such maps.

    This has no reflection on the capabilities of Fantasy Grounds.

    A GM can always add their own such map as well - expanding on a purchased module (or their own) to include all the relevant reference material they feel they need to run their game.
    Last edited by Trenloe; October 20th, 2018 at 23:17.
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  4. #14
    Myrdin Potter's Avatar
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    The adventures I have converted on DMs Guild all have a DM Map and a Players map. I do that any time the material I am converting have both (sometimes there is no player map, only a keyed DM's map and I need to make a player's map the best I can).

    However, material not on the Smiteworks store does not go through the Smitewoks QA process and program capabilities have increased over the years, so older material may not have everything a newer conversion will.

    Since FG and Roll20 are two different products with two feature sets and UI, common tasks will be done in different ways. I think this thread has shown way to approximate what the original poster has asked for. There even is an extension that adds more than one layer as well if that is the approach you like.
    Ultimate License. Running Hyperborea and CoC. Asks lots of questions. Mgpotter.com. PureVPN is a tested solution to run games when traveling. https://billing.purevpn.com/aff.php?aff=33044

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    So, it’s some developers in DMs Guild not doing a thorough job, rather than FG not being able to provide a GM and Player map.
    So the double standard for the "fanbois" etc and hypocrisy about "not picking apart single parts of a post" Moon Wizard mentioned elsewhere, only goes for "users" not Moderators?

    You clearly quote a prior complete sentence from me, but failed to fully read that sentence and just choose a few words to zero in on and cherry-pick to argue about something. Which is normal around here from the moderators, as well the "fanbois", as they were dubbed previously by an "Ultimate license holder" that i am borrowing the term from, because it is most appropriate.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Myrdin Potter View Post
    However, material not on the Smiteworks store does not go through the Smitewoks QA process
    I think this is the sad but true part, that people wish could happen, but in no way possible to force through DMs Guild and other offerings. same could be said for the other VTTs as well. the lack of QA and quality control, since they can't control them. people always dream for a working standard though, even if it is a pipe dream.

  7. #17
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    Will everyone please stop rising to shadzar’s bait. I’m sick of seeing these pointless arguments.
    If there is something that you would like to see in Fantasy Grounds that isn't currently part of the software or if there is something you think would improve a ruleset then add your idea here https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featu...rerequests.php

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myrdin Potter View Post
    Since FG and Roll20 are two different products with two feature sets and UI, common tasks will be done in different ways. I think this thread has shown way to approximate what the original poster has asked for. There even is an extension that adds more than one layer as well if that is the approach you like.
    Certainly two different products, and I appreciate everyone's thoughts on how they handle this in FG -- either placing tokens, or an encounter pin, or multi-map view, etc. My thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by shadzar View Post
    hopefully FGU will have the built in GM layer that prevents the need for double maps and the GM information can just be placed on a layer the players never see.
    Purely based on how I've played in past, that would be my wish too -- all info on one map, where all info is available to the GM, and can be shared with the players as needed. However, Roll20 has it's faults as well, and there will always be pros & cons, and compromises, between different toolsets.

    Thanks again to all!

  9. #19
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadzar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    So, it’s some developers in DMs Guild not doing a thorough job, rather than FG not being able to provide a GM and Player map.
    So the double standard for the "fanbois" etc and hypocrisy about "not picking apart single parts of a post" Moon Wizard mentioned elsewhere, only goes for "users" not Moderators?

    You clearly quote a prior complete sentence from me, but failed to fully read that sentence and just choose a few words to zero in on and cherry-pick to argue about something.
    Oh, you talk about hypocrisy! I don't think you know what that means. But, if you need a good example - just look at your post. You complain about "picking apart single parts of a post" and how do you start said post? You quote one single sentence from me, out of context as you then do nothing to actually refute that comment, but complain about people just picking apart single parts of a post. Which is exactly what you just did.

    I did fully read your sentence, and the others following it, which were very clearly saying that FG doesn't/couldn't provide keyed DM maps and unkeyed player maps - with your next sentence going on about the desire for a keyed DM map and a reference manual to see what things are on the map - which is exactly what FG (and it's products) provide. I presented clear and detailed information on this - mainly for the OP to see what is possible and not be swayed by your clearly inaccurate information.

    In addition, if you (to use one of your phrases) "fully read" the post from Moon Wizard that you mentioned , you'll see that he goes on to essentially say leave the moderation to moderators. Which is exactly what I'm doing - moderating clearly incorrect and misinformed comments on these forums. And I will continue to do so.
    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  10. #20
    We've reached the conclusion of this thread, I think. Closing for now. Please open a new thread, if you have more questions.

    Regards,
    JPG

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