When the walled garden backfires

[Topdecker]

FG's working model reminds me a bit of all the scientific societies that formed and that were quite effective during much of the 18th century. Many collaborators all working independently and without much friction but towards very similar goals - with this one being to play one rule system or the other comfortably while being online.

Anyhow, the FG development model is open and welcoming and this extends quite happily to the customer-base and seems to quietly influence the tenor and direction of many interactions here on the forums in a very positive fashion.

At least that's how I see it

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[LordEntrails]

A wise man once said (& no, I can't put an actual name to the Wise Man - sorry): "The person you end up as depends upon two things; the books you read and the people you hang out with".

Well said.
I use something akin to that today when looking at the world at large. Need to understand something about a person, such as a politician, media mogul, athlete, business partner? Look at who they associate with. In general, good people associate with good people, criminals associate with criminals, etc.

[LordEntrails]

Not to beat a horse when it's down... But I had to share this cuz well, wow. So glad Doug and John are the people they are...

So I stopped by r/Roll20 today to see what was going on. And it actually looks like it might turn into a nice healthy place. Evidenced by a few example thread there that starts out;

Reposting this with the hope it wont get taken down again thanks to a change in mods.
I've been working on this browser extension....

And the guy then goes on to post links to a browser extension that he's done that adds a bunch of functionality to Roll20 and solves a bunch of issues with the native environment.

Another thread starts;

Sorry, I realize this isn't a support forum, but I posted something on Sunday or Monday in the support forum of Roll20 and haven't really got a reply. I haven't used the service before, and I'm supposed to play in a game tomorrow.

So I draw two conclusions from these and other posts;
1) The toxicity in the Roll20 community wasn't an unusual thing.
2) r/Roll20 is shaping up to be a healthy place where criticism and open discussion will be welcome.

#2 a good thing. I'm happy to see it, and hope the Orr Group can take it to heart and learn, and grow, and maybe become as healthy and welcoming a company as SmiteWorks is.

[shadzar]

1) The toxicity in the Roll20 community wasn't an unusual thing.

well from what I have heard about roll20 from people that have NO CHOICE but to us it.... there is no support for the average player. you can go to the forums and hope another user can help you, or pray you can figure out what is wrong yourself. like all browser based tools you get mostly the common response:

1. Delete all your cookies
2. Clear your cache

if you want a macro, hope you can find it in the forums or write it yourself.. roll20 doesnt have anything like "extensions"/"themes" that let you add in the form of say a library of macros to apply to your game, you have to copy paste code from one place into the right place into your game.

[Valatar]

I was frankly amazed by what I saw of the administration of the subreddit, and I guess their forums by extension given that they were unethically running both with the same people. The posts that were getting people banned were so milquetoast run of the mill suggestions and bug reports, nobody in their right mind would lash out at a user, a customer at that, for posting it. Why was that guy getting his posts deleted for trying to write a browser extension that would improve their service? What insanity is that?

[shadzar]

Valatar, you have to understand "communities". you see a "community" possessed by a company has always been a place for control. control of the discussion by the company itself. this is why you see most discussion on non0company websites about thing.

WotC closed down its forums.. aka "community" because the made a trash system called 4e which created a literal war on their forums, and most people were already moving to places like ENWorld. same goes for DNDBeyond.. its a 5e only club, not a D&D club.... ENWorld at least allows discussion of other editions or games.

Games Workshop was all about control of their "community" and they too shut down their forums, and for a time i think most people preferred Dakka Dakka forums instead before it shut down.

Roll20 mostly has the LFG that is quick and easy to list the game and incorporate the thing with actually joining the game... not that sharing a URL with someone is that hard, and that is all it takes to join any rol20 game, thus why it has the obfuscated link in chat every time because it will connect then resolve the browser to editor.roll20.net or something like that for ALL games. so people wanting to talk openly went to reddit, but there the thing was done that they claim shouldnt be done.. the company was allowed to run that "community".

Most companies want to control their products discussions. It used to be negative discussion was a bad thing because word of mouth and such, but now they truly are a lot (see Nike or Disney) that believe there is no bad publicity" that strive to live on controversies....

insanity would be the right word for it all. in part in the RPG world is the ongoings of the "woke" crowd trying to rock the boat, and boy are they doing it. so it will be a long time before things stabilize again and anyone can figure out how to serve a community, and which part of it you want to serve, because most of it now is trying to figure out which demographics to aim the products at, who is worth of respect, etc... instead of jsut saying "anyone can buy anything, and when they have, they have a right to offer opinions on it". until then all criticism is bad. all critiques are bad. everything you do and say is hate speech unless it is glowing praise for everyone and everything else... aka... communities "don't need more white guys".

[GavinRuneblade]

So I draw two conclusions from these and other posts;
1) The toxicity in the Roll20 community wasn't an unusual thing.
2) r/Roll20 is shaping up to be a healthy place where criticism and open discussion will be welcome.

#2 a good thing. I'm happy to see it, and hope the Orr Group can take it to heart and learn, and grow, and maybe become as healthy and welcoming a company as SmiteWorks is.

That would definitely be a good thing.