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  1. #31
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    I'm coming from the outside in this discussion, but I think people need to calm down, take a deep breath and read what is being said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Segin View Post
    Sir, you should check your own link. Look real hard. Where on that link is Abil:2 <adds 2 to ALL abilitiy score> ? Look real close. Tell me if you see it. I believe you will find that it isn't there.
    I'm really confused with your statement. The ABIL effect is there in the page referenced by Andraax:



    Quote Originally Posted by Segin View Post
    You guys are so focused on proving me wrong, you are not hearing what I am saying. You even say there is no way to effect ST's because of the Seige Engine after I gave you the formula. Maybe you should read my suggestion for that, instead of dismissing it out of hand. I told you. Create another set of hidden Ability scores (seperate from the ones used for Seige Checks). Hand the ST's use those not the Seige Check Ability scores. If you can't wrap your head around that concept, then I'll just nod my head with you, and say ok. No use arguing with you.
    I think you need to calm down some and also read what the others in this post are trying to say. They're trying to tell you that Saving Throws aren't anything special requiring a different mechanic - saving throws are an attribute check, better known as a siege checks. If there are modifiers to be made to a saving throw ability check (siege check) you should apply it just like any other modifier.

    From the "Saving Throws" section of the C&C PHB: "A saving throw is an attribute check. A player rolls a d20 and adds the character’s level and the appropriate attribute modifier. If the attribute related to the saving throw is a primary attribute, the challenge base is 12. If the attribute related to the saving throw is a secondary attribute, the challenge base is 18. The Castle Keeper determines the challenge level by such factors as the monster’s hit dice, the spell caster’s level or the level of the trap or poison. The Castle Keeper may also give bonuses or impose penalties due to circumstance and situation."

    This is exactly the same as any other attribute check (siege check). This is why others are trying to tell you that there is no need for a completely separate mechanic for saving throws.

    @Segin I'm sorry, but as a moderator I had to jump in here because you're coming across as overly aggressive - saying things "suck" and are "bolox", the example above of the ABIL effect and implying that people are stupid. Please moderate your tone and relax. You're having a discussion about something you'd like to be added into the ruleset and others are asking why this is needed as the RPG mechanic is covered already. Please discuss this civility and politely. Thanks.
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andraax View Post
    The "Save buttons" are the same buttons as used for Siege Checks. Saves, in C&C, *are* Siege Checks. They are one and the same. To save against Divine Magic, you do a Wisdom Siege Check. To see if you notice that sound from down the corridor, you do a Wisdom Siege Check.
    Right you are! For some reason I was thinking there was a separate row of buttons to click, but it's just the saving throw text labels in their own column.

    Also: thanks for stepping in @Trenloe!

  3. #33

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    Everybody can stop this discussion. I am testing a solution that doesn't break anything currently, but gives @Segin what he wants. I will be pushing this to the test channel soon and it will be in the next release. I think we're now done discussing "saves".

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortar View Post
    Put the total modifier in the modifier box bottom left corner of the screen. Having said that, a saving throw in C&C is an attribute check - so it's a Siege engine check. Having more effects already set up would be nice.
    LOL. I have mentioned that already. The only way to adjust ST's is to do it by hand. I've actually one upped your solution and put a Modifier in the Modifier's Table so that when I am under a spell effect I just click the modifier to adjust it. But I'm not sure that is any better than adjusting it manually.

    And please read what I have written. I know it is an ability check, a siege check. If you read my solution you would see that I know this (by making a second hidden copy of the ability scores). <removed quark>

    Yes it would. Also it would be nice to have the current tweaks known to us. I've been told that all the effects except for the one I found (the ability to modify all stats in one statement instead of many) have been given to us.
    I have found another effect (not an effect) available on the 'Touch [HEAL] (1d8)' attack, though. Try this: '10Touch [HEAL] (1d8)' . I am really happy about this [HEAL] attack I learned on the forum. It's yummy.

    Segin
    Last edited by Segin; August 15th, 2018 at 08:25.
    Signature:A past thread ended with me being vilified. I didn't explain well (I thought it obvious) and others kept rebuking my idea and it ended bad. Thus I will add explanations/screen shots/etc in all future posts to avoid confusion. /The seperation of "Saves in CnC" wherein I didn't clarify why well and no one recognized the need which frustrated. I realized my mistake to spell it out abc, but was attacked partly (imo) because a pwrdude got offended and (I admit) partly my presentation.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    I'm coming from the outside in this discussion, but I think people need to calm down, take a deep breath and read what is being said.


    I'm really confused with your statement. The ABIL effect is there in the page referenced by Andraax:




    I think you need to calm down some and also read what the others in this post are trying to say. They're trying to tell you that Saving Throws aren't anything special requiring a different mechanic - saving throws are an attribute check, better known as a siege checks. If there are modifiers to be made to a saving throw ability check (siege check) you should apply it just like any other modifier.

    From the "Saving Throws" section of the C&C PHB: "A saving throw is an attribute check. A player rolls a d20 and adds the character’s level and the appropriate attribute modifier. If the attribute related to the saving throw is a primary attribute, the challenge base is 12. If the attribute related to the saving throw is a secondary attribute, the challenge base is 18. The Castle Keeper determines the challenge level by such factors as the monster’s hit dice, the spell caster’s level or the level of the trap or poison. The Castle Keeper may also give bonuses or impose penalties due to circumstance and situation."

    This is exactly the same as any other attribute check (siege check). This is why others are trying to tell you that there is no need for a completely separate mechanic for saving throws.

    @Segin I'm sorry, but as a moderator I had to jump in here because you're coming across as overly aggressive - saying things "suck" and are "bolox", the example above of the ABIL effect and implying that people are stupid. Please moderate your tone and relax. You're having a discussion about something you'd like to be added into the ruleset and others are asking why this is needed as the RPG mechanic is covered already. Please discuss this civility and politely. Thanks.
    Your wrong on all counts though. It is something that needs to be addressed. Your saying its an Ability score check for ST's therefore it doesn't need to be changed. The thing is it does, and your wrong.

    When I change Ability scores, it doesn't just change ST's. It changes other things. Hence, there is no way to change ST's without messing up the character. I hope I am explaining this so you can understand it.

    As far as the ABIL:2 str being in there, it is. So as it stood, if I wanted to raise multiple all my stats I would stype ABIL:2 Str; ABIL:2 DEX;ABIL:2 WIS; please don't make me type it all out. I found that if you type ABIL:2 with no descriptor that it raised ALL stats without having to type it in. This was unknown and was not described or given to us and therefore was not an option. If you say that it was there all along, then please tell me what else is there, that really isn't there, because I could use that info too.

    So if there is something like, AC:2 1atk (AC:2 for 1 attacks <aka DODGE>) that is obviously there for all to use because AC is there and ATK is there, then please be so kind as to point it out to me because those are things that need to be known. The dodge AC:2 1ATK doesn't work, I tried it. But if it's so obvious to you about ABIL affecting all stats, then why wasn't it told to us, similiar to Dodge (if it worked). BTW, make that a wishlist item to make DODGE work like that.
    Signature:A past thread ended with me being vilified. I didn't explain well (I thought it obvious) and others kept rebuking my idea and it ended bad. Thus I will add explanations/screen shots/etc in all future posts to avoid confusion. /The seperation of "Saves in CnC" wherein I didn't clarify why well and no one recognized the need which frustrated. I realized my mistake to spell it out abc, but was attacked partly (imo) because a pwrdude got offended and (I admit) partly my presentation.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortar View Post
    With the way the C&C rules are written,WHY do you need to set up a hidden set of scores to act as saving throws? That's the part I think Andraax is not understanding - because I know I am not understanding your thinking behind this.
    Ok, so there seems to be a lot of people not understanding why I need to change ST's when I can change the Ability that ST's are based on. Let me give an example, to help. Shield of Faith gives a bonus 2 to armor Class (AC:2) and it gives a bonus to ST's. I'm not sure, lets just say +120 just to make the example. If I changed the Ability scores by +120 then my melee attacks would be something fierce and also ranged attacks because to affect all ST's I would have to adjust ALL stats by using the nifty Effect I came up with (partially) by doing ABIL:+120 <no descriptor>. Therefore, I see no way to change a ST without affecting other things on my character. Now, if there is a way, then up to this point no one has told me how.

    Segin
    Signature:A past thread ended with me being vilified. I didn't explain well (I thought it obvious) and others kept rebuking my idea and it ended bad. Thus I will add explanations/screen shots/etc in all future posts to avoid confusion. /The seperation of "Saves in CnC" wherein I didn't clarify why well and no one recognized the need which frustrated. I realized my mistake to spell it out abc, but was attacked partly (imo) because a pwrdude got offended and (I admit) partly my presentation.

  7. #37
    And I guess I do get defensive, when everything I said should be a simple request, yet everyone knocks it down like it is a silly idea. WHY would you want to affect ST's when you can change your Move Silently skills and melee attacks and range attacks and damage modifiers to get the ST effect your looking for. Not one person has said, hey that is a cool idea. And not one has said thanks for finding out that you can change all the ability scores without having to type them in one at a time. You've wen't waaay out of your way to prove me wrong on all counts. I guess all you pro's knew it already and just didn't think it was worth sharing. I don't know. But I've told it like I see it.
    Signature:A past thread ended with me being vilified. I didn't explain well (I thought it obvious) and others kept rebuking my idea and it ended bad. Thus I will add explanations/screen shots/etc in all future posts to avoid confusion. /The seperation of "Saves in CnC" wherein I didn't clarify why well and no one recognized the need which frustrated. I realized my mistake to spell it out abc, but was attacked partly (imo) because a pwrdude got offended and (I admit) partly my presentation.

  8. #38
    The only thing that would crumple my statements is if ST's are different than Ability score checks. I've asked repeatedly on different forum threads and I've been told WRONG if there is a ST that doesn't include ABILITY scores. IF there is a way to separate ST's from ABILITY scores, then I am the one that is wrong. I'll take the blame. But I've been told wrongly myself if that is the case.
    Signature:A past thread ended with me being vilified. I didn't explain well (I thought it obvious) and others kept rebuking my idea and it ended bad. Thus I will add explanations/screen shots/etc in all future posts to avoid confusion. /The seperation of "Saves in CnC" wherein I didn't clarify why well and no one recognized the need which frustrated. I realized my mistake to spell it out abc, but was attacked partly (imo) because a pwrdude got offended and (I admit) partly my presentation.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    You're having a discussion about something you'd like to be added into the ruleset and others are asking why this is needed as the RPG mechanic is covered already. Thanks.
    I've come up with a solution. I quoted you, because reading between the lines gave me the idea. If I want Shield of Faith to affect ST's like the spell description and not affect everything else that Ability scores do, here is what I can do. Create an Ability in the Skills/Abilities Tab called, umm, Shield of Faith AC2 ST30. Adjust the manual adjuster of the ability up to 30 (or +2 or whatever). Then, when that actor is under the Shield of Faith;AC:2 effect and has to make a ST, then I can go to Abilities and adjust the ability to the one the ST needs (Str, dex whatever) and use the ability.

    So there is a work around. I could actually put in ST adjustment + or minus 1-10 so that any time a ST is needed with an effect affecting just the ST and not the ability itself, I can just click an ability. At this point though, seriously think just adjusting the roll manually and saying it can't be done is the best option.
    Signature:A past thread ended with me being vilified. I didn't explain well (I thought it obvious) and others kept rebuking my idea and it ended bad. Thus I will add explanations/screen shots/etc in all future posts to avoid confusion. /The seperation of "Saves in CnC" wherein I didn't clarify why well and no one recognized the need which frustrated. I realized my mistake to spell it out abc, but was attacked partly (imo) because a pwrdude got offended and (I admit) partly my presentation.

  10. #40
    JohnD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andraax View Post
    Everybody can stop this discussion. I am testing a solution that doesn't break anything currently, but gives @Segin what he wants. I will be pushing this to the test channel soon and it will be in the next release. I think we're now done discussing "saves".
    Perhaps this post has been missed.

    I had been asking for initiative modifiers to be added and Andraax got them in, and that's not the only update that has been followed through on at the ruleset level, not to mention all the content updates that have been made so far in 2018 for C&C so overall the situation IMO is positive.
    "I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind."

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    RIP Canada, February 21, 2022

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