5e Bug Reports (Part 3)

[astromath]

That's a limitation with FG itself. You need to manually modify it.

Zac: Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Zacchaeus]

Maybe I'm missing something, but it appears the Tortle race only gives base AC of 13, when it should be base AC of 17 due to the Natural Armor trait.

At present there's only one other race which has natural armour, that being the Lizardfolk in Volo's Guide. I think code was inserted into FG to take account of that at the time Volo was published. It would take more exception code I think to handle the Tortle, since FG is fixing on the wording 'natural armor' and making it 13. I'll note it up on the list of things to look at but in the meantime the workaround would be to either simply override the AC in the character sheet or add a bonus into the 'misc' box or create an effect of AC:4 and place it on the character/

[epithet]

When creating an NPC with the Spellcasting trait, the value provided for spell save DC is completely ignored. When you add the NPC to the combat tracker, FG will calculate the spell save DC based on the CR and the value of the spellcasting stat regardless of what the user provides for a spell save DC.

So, for example, assume your Spellcasting trait provides "The thingie is an X-level spellcaster. Its spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC Y, +Z to hit with spell attacks.)" The value you put in for Y (and probably Z, as well) is completely ignored, because FG will just add the proficiency bonus to the stat bonus for the indicated spellcasting stat plus 8 and override your indicated DC with that value. I am guessing that it will also override your Z value with stat bonus + proficiency bonus.

That ain't right.

If I want to tweak the spell save DC because, for example, I have given an NPC a spell focus item with a bonus, then FG should respect my entered value. I should not have to enter an inaccurate CR just to get the NPC to load into the combat tracker with the correct values for spellcasting, or remember to apply an effect to the NPC before I start the first round of combat. (By the way, when are we going to be able to add effects to NPCs in encounters, so that they automatically load into the combat tracker with the effect active?)

Please fix it.

Edit: As far as I can tell, there is no way to modify a creature's spell save DC or its spell attack bonus (without modifying all attack bonuses) using an effect. Did I miss it, or is that not an implemented effect?

[Zacchaeus]

This was changed recently so that NPCs use their Spellcasting bonus correctly so that spell effects which use that bonus would be correctly computed, such as the case with healing spells. So FG no longer uses any Spell save DC or attacks noted in the Spellcasting trait, but calculates the correct value.

There aren't any effects which add or subtract directly to a save DC. The bonus or penalty would need to be applied to the actor making the save. So if you want an NPC or PC to have more difficulty making a save then apply an effect such as SAVE: -1, dexterity.

You may be interested in this extension.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...ed-apply-them)

[Moon Wizard]

If the DC is embedded specifically in the spell description (not using the spell auto-assignment), then that DC will be used. (i.e. "DC 15 wisdom saving throw")

Regards,
JPG

[epithet]

This was changed recently so that NPCs use their Spellcasting bonus correctly so that spell effects which use that bonus would be correctly computed, such as the case with healing spells. So FG no longer uses any Spell save DC or attacks noted in the Spellcasting trait, but calculates the correct value.

Well, that's the problem, isn't it? If I say the spellcaster has a spell save DC 15, +7 to hit with spells, then that is the correct value. It doesn't matter whether his prof. bonus and stat bonus add up to 7--I'm the DM, and I can set his spell save DC to whatever I want it to be for that NPC. If the only way to override the auto-calculation is to manually change the save DC for each and every spell, that's a bug. It's broken. I appreciate the ability of Fantasy Grounds to do calculations for me, but it is a problem when I can't easily override that. The correct spell save value isn't a formula to be calculated. By the time my NPC is loaded into the combat tracker, the correct spell save DC is what I wrote in the spellcasting trait, no more, no less. Fantasy Grounds, in this instance, is calculating the incorrect value and overriding my entry with its error.

[Myrdin Potter]

epithet - Do you change the DC and + to hit pretty often? Because lots of people make the error on not applying the proficiency bonus from the NPC CR and try to key off of the spell caster level. I think you understand that but want an NPC or group of NPC to have better rolls?

So I would say that you want to override when you specifically want a value, not that the base calculation is wrong. It actually is correct as per the RAW, except for the rule that the DM runs their game and sets their rules. The autocalculation probably helps the vast majority and does not help you in this case.

IF FG is just ignoring the text, then maybe there should be a way to flag it not to. like using [] or something.

[epithet]

The issue came up when I was trying to modify a caster to reflect the magic item that I wanted to give the NPC (and subsequently to the party that squashed him.) It is a much deeper issue, though--even following the rules in the DMG, you can have two distinct CRs (offensive and defensive) which are averaged into the CR of the NPC. If the offensive CR of the NPC is skewed by Fantasy Grounds overwriting the DM's calculations with its own based on the average CR, everything is thrown off.

The bottom line is that there are a number of factors that can go into calculating the save DC. Having the software force it to conform to the most simplistic calculation (unless you want to go in and manually add the correct DC to every spell on the list) is broken. As I understand it, the design principle of Fantasy Grounds is that the automation should make adventure prep and game play faster and easier, but ultimately not supplant DM judgement or restrict options that a party or DM would have on a physical tabletop. Hell, we even have an option now to use FG with physical dice. How does that reconcile with overwriting the DM's save DC?

Ultimately, if people are using the wrong proficiency bonus when cooking up standard NPCs, that's on them. I would point out, however, that you can come up with the save DC based on CR, or you can come up with the offensive CR based on save DC and to-hit bonus (and damage-per-round) and then average it with the defensive CR (which could be very different.) There is not just one simple way to cook an NPC.

If a DM can't set the save DC for a spellcaster NPC, that's a bug, not a feature. I don't need my campaign idiot-proofed to keep me from using the "wrong" value for saves and to-hit, I have the DMG and a calculator and I am quite capable of handling that myself, thanks.

Edit: What's next, is Fantasy Grounds going to parse the text from the armor box to calculate the "correct" AC based on "chain shirt and shield" and the dex bonus to overwrite the AC that I enter? I'm sorry, but the idea that this program has been updated to prevent me from using the "wrong" prof. bonus for my NPCs is just really, really irksome.

[Zacchaeus]

At present this is working as intended; it isn't a bug per se. This may be worthy of inclusion in the wish list so that Moon Wizard can see why there might be a need for more flexibility on this one.

[astromath]

@Zach. Can I make a suggestion? At the bottom of Moon's post is the link to the wish list. My request is that you add that link to yours. It'll save time in trying to locate Moon's posts since you post more often.