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  1. #31
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    Abandoned extensions are common. And even more common than that are community devs who are not professional coders and don't know how to go about open sourcing something, don't know about semantic versioning, and quite simple are making some mod for their own use and go ahead and make it available to the community.

    But, if you are going to put professional or commercial expectations on them and what they share, they are simple not going to share.

    Now, there are also professional developers who are community devs too, like Dulux and others. They take the time to keep track of what's in beta and how it may impact their extensions. They might using the versioning tools available and they might not. They generally do an awesome job of updating their extensions in a timely manner when they do break. Something that is very generous of them to do with their free time.

    I'm actually getting a little upset at the vehemence I am perceiving from some in this thread. Hopefully I am misconstruing what is being said, but I don't think I am. And I find it... well, I would ask that those upset about this issue take a step back and consider their own role and responsibilities.

    Do I run a Windows update before I am going into a conference room to make some presentation to some executive? Nope. Do I update Java before I am about to demo software that depends on Java applets? Nope. Take responsibility for your own actions. Understand what you are using, behave accordingly.

    Yes there are some good ideas in this thread, that I hope are given due consideration. And I have faith they will be. Their are things that can and should be done to limit the impact of unconsidered use of extensions and poor updating practices. But no matter what is done, nothing will ever prevent the creation of a better fool.

    Problems? See; How to Report Issues, Bugs & Problems
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  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by LordEntrails View Post
    Abandoned extensions are common. And even more common than that are community devs who are not professional coders and don't know how to go about open sourcing something, don't know about semantic versioning, and quite simple are making some mod for their own use and go ahead and make it available to the community.

    But, if you are going to put professional or commercial expectations on them and what they share, they are simple not going to share.

    Now, there are also professional developers who are community devs too, like Dulux and others. They take the time to keep track of what's in beta and how it may impact their extensions. They might using the versioning tools available and they might not. They generally do an awesome job of updating their extensions in a timely manner when they do break. Something that is very generous of them to do with their free time.

    I'm actually getting a little upset at the vehemence I am perceiving from some in this thread. Hopefully I am misconstruing what is being said, but I don't think I am. And I find it... well, I would ask that those upset about this issue take a step back and consider their own role and responsibilities.

    Do I run a Windows update before I am going into a conference room to make some presentation to some executive? Nope. Do I update Java before I am about to demo software that depends on Java applets? Nope. Take responsibility for your own actions. Understand what you are using, behave accordingly.

    Yes there are some good ideas in this thread, that I hope are given due consideration. And I have faith they will be. Their are things that can and should be done to limit the impact of unconsidered use of extensions and poor updating practices. But no matter what is done, nothing will ever prevent the creation of a better fool.
    I agree with your comments and point, but there's one important fact missing. The primary issue that you did not address is the lack of update control between paid content, from WotC for example, and FG updates. So, one can be responsible but one will also be leaving that paid content behind. If the content was free, then my point wouldn't exist. Indeed... the most difficult software situation to manage is one where the software costs money and the "data" costs money.

    I can be "responsible" if I have control. But, I think that an earlier post said it all: "don't use custom extensions." This seems extreme as it seems that the FG development team does rely on this extensions for new features. I gleaned this at the FG GenCon development event. Since there's such synergies, as a part of FG's business model or development practice, it seems that a plan to improve that would be welcomed and an improvement that is a win for everyone.

    I think the vehemence you are perceiving is nothing more than a bunch of us who want FG to be wildly successful all while not turning into or selling to an evil corporation like Hasbro that considers the customer after the numbers.

    We are with you, and we support you.

  3. #33
    Ok since the update none of my encounters work any more. I get script errors whenever I open anything in the campaign.

    Its Hoard of the Dragon Queen. I cannot add an encounter to the map. All of the errors according to 'Conversion Checker; are Imageref errors. When I manually add the NPC to the Combat Checker it has no actions - Just a blank record?

    Worked fine before the update.

    In the game I get Script Error: [string "scripts/manager_string.lua"]:200: attempt to call method 'find' (a nil value). When I try and place an NPC from the Encounter to the Map/Combat Tracker.

    Can I roll back the update so I can finish the module? I have tried creating a new 5e Campaign and loading the module into it. Same thing...
    Last edited by Martin153; September 22nd, 2017 at 18:21.
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  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by LordEntrails View Post
    I'm actually getting a little upset at the vehemence I am perceiving from some in this thread.

    I am sorry - because FG is the most expensive piece of software I own and that I expect good service for having spent $1102.28 on it? I should just keep quiet right and not complain?

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  5. #35
    @Martin153,

    Do you have any folders within the FG data folder under the rulesets subfolder? If so, can you move those folders out of the rulesets folder, and try again?
    (Folders within the rulesets subfolder will override the built-in packages, which is a tool for developers to use when building rulesets.)

    Otherwise, can you send a copy of your campaign folder for creating your module zipped up to [email protected]? (via DropBox or other file share)

    Thanks,
    JPG

  6. #36
    My issue was the Remove effects EXT. Disabled that and it appears to work.

    I agree that the comment
    I'm actually getting a little upset at the vehemence I am perceiving from some in this thread.
    was not helpful. I like others have sent 100s of $ so a little more compassion for the user base would go along way.
    Ultimate License Holder
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  7. #37
    I am compassionate and empathetic towards the user base. I've been there myself; I agree wholeheartedly with most of what was brought up by the OP. But I don't believe the expectations or the manor in which they are being presented by a few are conductive with the professional environment they are asking for.

    I personally view a difference between a modding community and a software development community. I don't see the point of criticizing a company for what the community does. I agree the company doesn't fully support the modding community (lack of ruleset documentation, lack of change logs on update, lack of integration of UGC into program other than a checkbox in the launcher), but your problem was first with the UGC, not the content. And many of the thread where you get that content state (some in large red letters) to turn the content off after an update. Sure, the process should be made better, people don't read the instructions either.
    I never claimed to be sane. Besides, it's more fun this way.

  8. #38
    Myrdin Potter's Avatar
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    @Martin153 - If you read the messages from Doug and Moon Wizard, I see nothing but empathy, suggested ways to help, and promises that they agree there is an issue and want to keep improving it.

    Please don't confuse posts from people like me (just another forum user and program user like you) from the official company representatives. I disable extensions before running a new update because that is what smiteworks have told us to do. I really wish they put a big splash page up whenever a ruleset or program change come up with the option to disable all extensions automatically. I do not understand why they don't do that as they lose at least a week every single major update and the forums fill up with angry posts about the software being broken and that has to be terrible for marketing.

    I have not yet had a paid DLC break from a ruleset update.

    @bluedreamer - That happened to two of my players once, they updated and ran into big issues on their macs. Was frustrating as hell for all of us. Your posts are polite compared to what I would have written that night.

    That said, the code for all community extensions is fully available and not encrypted. The thread where it is made available usually has the person that wrote it front and center. In theory, anyone can fork and modify the code for personal use.
    Ultimate License. Running Hyperborea and CoC. Asks lots of questions. Mgpotter.com. PureVPN is a tested solution to run games when traveling. https://billing.purevpn.com/aff.php?aff=33044

  9. #39
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    I'm sorry something I wrote was not deemed helpful.

    - I do not represent FG or SmiteWorks. Nor have I ever done any contract, paid, or unpaid work for them.
    - I am a user, and have also spent a significant amount of money on this program.
    - Of course everyone has a right to complain. And feedback is important.
    - I am not really a community dev. Though I have done a single extension and have published a single FG module on the DMsGuild, I do not think that qualifies me as a community developer.

    The intent of my posts is to help other users how to provide meaningful feedback by providing my opinion on the topic(s) of discussion and to discuss how the issues addressed in this thread may be mitigated.

    @bluedreamer, I get that you have spent $1102.28 on FG. Yet you are complaining about problems with community extensions that you paid nothing for (or at least you did not list any contributions to those developers). That were provided to you free of charge. By people who got none of your $1102.28. It really seems like you do not understand that, or the distinction that implies. Maybe I'm wrong.

    There have been some very useful suggestions made in this thread. I also believe that SW will carefully consider those suggestions that make business sense to do so. I also trust that they know their business and software and generally make very good decisions.

    Hopefully this post clears up any misconceptions my limited writing skills have caused. Unless there is some further clarification of my statement needed, I will just observe this thread as I do not want to cause anyone strife. PM me if appropriate, just know that I won't be arguing with anyone.

    Problems? See; How to Report Issues, Bugs & Problems
    On Licensing & Distributing Community Content
    Community Contributions: Gemstones, 5E Quick Ref Decal, Adventure Module Creation, Dungeon Trinkets, Balance Disturbed, Dungeon Room Descriptions
    Note, I am not a SmiteWorks employee or representative, I'm just a user like you.

  10. #40
    I'm going to go ahead and close this thread. I think that the appropriate points have been stated well from all involved, and we definitely monitor all customer support channels.

    If you have other items to discuss, please start a new thread.
    If you would like to have a more in-depth discussion with us on this topic, you can e-mail both Doug and I at [email protected].

    Thanks,
    JPG

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