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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    Keep 'em coming. Maybe we can somehow brainstorm a cool name that isn't confusing, encapsulates what the Ultimate provides and that SmiteWorks would be willing to take on board...
    There is always another option. It's not a flashy or as good on the marketing side, but I think it is better to entice people with a description rather than confuse them with a name. The format for the licenses are to built access upon the last, giving the purchaser more options (free player -> player/GM -> player/GM/host for all). So the best naming scheme to avoid confusion, communicate the structure, and have room for expansion is a naming system that also builds off of itself.

    • Tier 1 license: demo campaign, join tier 3 games.
    • Tier 2 license: host owned campaigns, join any game.
    • Tier 3 license: host owned campaigns allowing tier 1 players, join any game.
    • Tier 4 license: (fictional example of expansion) host any campaign allowing tier 1 players, join any game.
    • Tier 5 license: (fictional example of expansion) access luxury mode as a player or host.
    I never claimed to be sane. Besides, it's more fun this way.

  2. #12
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    I remember that thread. Couldn't come up with an ideal name then either. But I do think we can come up with something better.

    "Master"
    "Unlimited Host"
    "Progenitor"
    "Conqueror"
    "Maximum"
    "Performance"
    "Vigor"

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  3. #13
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMookNet View Post
    Just one fairly-new user's perspective, but imo the FG subscription definitions seem very clear. When I purchased an Ultimate License, it was an Ultimate License for Fantasy Grounds, not for D&D. Fantasy Grounds is not D&D, it's a system-neutral platform for playing D&D... and GURPS, and Pathfinder, and Fate, and whatever your gaming system of choice happens to be. I don't follow the logic of why buying the program would also automatically give me access to the full library of a single games ruleset.

    I also don't play D&D at all, so that may have something to do with it? But when I purchased my license, I knew exactly what I was getting.
    For most people, you and I included, we either didn't make a wrong assumption, or actually did a bit of reading to find out just what the licenses were for. But, We see this same issue on the forums several times a year (at least).

    So, the hope/thought is if there is some other way to name or describe the licenses that will help reduce the number of times this issue pops up

    Problems? See; How to Report Issues, Bugs & Problems
    On Licensing & Distributing Community Content
    Community Contributions: Gemstones, 5E Quick Ref Decal, Adventure Module Creation, Dungeon Trinkets, Balance Disturbed, Dungeon Room Descriptions
    Note, I am not a SmiteWorks employee or representative, I'm just a user like you.

  4. #14
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickademus View Post
    • Tier 1 license: demo campaign, join tier 3 games.
    • Tier 2 license: host owned campaigns, join any game.
    • Tier 3 license: host owned campaigns allowing tier 1 players, join any game.
    • Tier 4 license: (fictional example of expansion) host any campaign allowing tier 1 players, join any game.
    • Tier 5 license: (fictional example of expansion) access luxury mode as a player or host.
    Interesting. If nothing else, it will force people to actually read what each one means, rather than making assumptions.

    Does "luxury mode" come with a shagpile carpet you can run your bare feet through? I hope so because I'd definitely make that assumption...



    I don't think that colour nail polish suits me though...
    Last edited by Trenloe; August 15th, 2017 at 02:42.
    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    Does "luxury mode" come with a shagpile carpet you can run your bare feet through? I hope so because I'd definitely make that assumption...
    I have plans for 'luxury mode', but yes, it can come with shagpile carpet if you wish. I'll even include text about how every character feels compelled to remove their shoes and run their bare feet through it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trenloe View Post
    I don't think that colour nail polish suits me though...
    You'll get used to it.
    I never claimed to be sane. Besides, it's more fun this way.

  6. #16
    How about instead of "Ultimate" SW uses "Überhost" (or some variant) - does that seem to convey to people that its all about the hosting of games and that this is the Über level of hosting (Über = "denoting an outstanding or supreme example of a particular kind of person or thing", "to a great or extreme degree").

    Actually, thinking about it more, I think we need to concentrate not on the "Ultimate" part but on the "Hosting" part - try to convey the idea that its all about the hosting.

    Thoughts?
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  7. #17

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    Entry, standard, and best? Virtue of simplicity and no one will get confused whether 1 or 5 is better

  8. #18
    LordEntrails's Avatar
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    I like Uberhost. It reminds my of Unlimited Host *G*

    I also think the tier or level naming approach has some merit too. But, a concern with levels is it implies linear differences. Which is true for now, but may not be valid for future developments. i.e. what if some future enhancement or add-on (for instance, 3D maps/tables) becomes an option to any license level?

    Problems? See; How to Report Issues, Bugs & Problems
    On Licensing & Distributing Community Content
    Community Contributions: Gemstones, 5E Quick Ref Decal, Adventure Module Creation, Dungeon Trinkets, Balance Disturbed, Dungeon Room Descriptions
    Note, I am not a SmiteWorks employee or representative, I'm just a user like you.

  9. #19
    Trenloe's Avatar
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    Taking the original post in this thread as an example... The more I think about it, the more I think that it doesn't really matter what you call the Ultimate license: Best, Uberhost, Ultimate Host, Master, Level 5, or whatever, as long as it's not blatantly misleading (e.g. "Everything we do"). If a customer doesn't even make the first effort to read up on what they're getting, then any reasonable name doesn't make a difference. Maybe it's because someone is paying over $149 for the Ultimate license (or $10/month) and they think that level of cost is going to give them everything. But I think that viewpoint is pretty rare - I'm sure it's a very low percentage of monthly sales. It's not like we have a dozen people a week coming on the forums and thinking that Ultimate gives them over $1000 worth of DLC for $149 (or $10/month). If people aren't willing to spend a few minutes reading what they actually get for their money or, in this case listen to some random person on the Internet and believe that D&D 4E is officially supported and then complain it's false advertising, then a cool-and-trendy UberBestHostMasterLevel5 name isn't going to make any difference. Someone's going to see the top level price, pay it and expect everything.

    And, in the majority of these rare cases, the customer understands once it's pointed out. Sometimes the issue is that they don't know about the different licenses - OGL/SRD, Basic Rules, etc., sometimes it's because they simply haven't read anything at all and realise their mistake. Some stay around once it's explained to them and enjoy using FG to game with their friends, some get a refund and move on. You're never, ever, going to get the full information across to everyone of some people aren't willing to do a tiny bit of reading to see what they're getting.
    Last edited by Trenloe; August 15th, 2017 at 05:13.
    Private Messages: My inbox is forever filling up with PMs. Please don't send me PMs unless they are actually private/personal messages. General FG questions should be asked in the forums - don't be afraid, the FG community don't bite and you're giving everyone the chance to respond and learn!

  10. #20
    Erin Righ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordEntrails View Post
    For most people, you and I included, we either didn't make a wrong assumption, or actually did a bit of reading to find out just what the licenses were for. But, We see this same issue on the forums several times a year (at least).

    So, the hope/thought is if there is some other way to name or describe the licenses that will help reduce the number of times this issue pops up
    No my friend we will reach none of these people because using FG Ultimate Subscription for about 10 months now, I've seen problems like this crop up few times, each and every time there is a post from T.R.E.N.L.O.E with the basic gist running something along the lines of "I don't understand (always bad to confuse the AI (stuff in parentheses are my own thoughts)) it states clearly in the <follows with highlighted text> on the main page, that it is not the case so I don't get what your issue is? Please cite your sources (the AI is more eloquent than me)"

    And I see people on here from all over the world united, not by common language but rather, common hobbies, where English is not their first language, but their English is a damn sight better than my French, or Portuguese, or Spanish, or German, and they manage to navigate the complexities of the FG/Smiteworks web site without managing to come to the wrong conclusion. And I, who am not a computer genius, managed to understand, so I thought to myself, "What do we do that these people must not do or else they wouldn't take 7 months to realize that they didn't get their product that they were expecting, and if they had done it, they probably wouldn't have concluded that anyway?"

    Then it hit me and I heard Cenk Uygur in my head blurt out "Of Course!!" The answer is obvious, "We use our heads for more than a funnel to get Cheetos and Mountain Dew down our gullet, and our eyes for looking at more than Elf Porn (hey there is nothing wrong with a little elf porn)...We read!!"

    My honest opinion is these people don't read. They don't read the product description, and they don't read the forums to find out if anyone else has the same problem, and they certainly don't read end user agreements, Open Gaming Licences, and Fair Use Policies, and then I realize that we are wasting our finger strength typing to a blind audience and then I hear the voice of Jeff Foxworthy and it sounds like;

    [REMOVED]

    <Flicks 2 cp into the room, grunts, and hobbles back to his corner to chuff on his pipe>

    And stay off my lawn too
    Last edited by Trenloe; August 15th, 2017 at 06:53.

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